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AleksanderTheGreat
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90 Posts

Posted - 10 May 2011 :  06:29:42  Show Profile Send AleksanderTheGreat a Private Message  Delete Topic
Eilistraee killed Vhaerun (sp?) and asimilated his portfolios and clergy. She became The Masked Lady. Unfortunetly she was killed soon after.
Now, lets assume she wasn't killed and Spellplague didn't happen. What are your ideas on how would her clergy (and she) evolve through the next years after her becoming The Masked Lady? And more important - how do you imagine The Masked Lady? Still good but more sneaky? Or maybe neutral?
I love Eilistraee, she's got potencial, but IMO she should become The Masked Lady more sooner or maybe even be her from the begining.

Fighting for order! - Join me in the battle!

Lord Karsus
Great Reader

USA
3736 Posts

Posted - 10 May 2011 :  07:40:33  Show Profile Send Lord Karsus a Private Message
-Here's my take on The Masked Lady (in the brief time she was "alive"):

The Masked Lady
The Moonlight Shadow
Symbol: The full moon with a black half-mask tied on it (http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj240/Dagnirion/untitled-2.jpg)
Home Plane: Arvandor (Hill of the Dancing Moon) / The Demonweb Pits (Ellaniath)
Alignment: Chaotic Neutral
Portfolio: Beauty, Dance, Drow Activity on the Surface World, Hunting, Moonlight, Song, Swordplay, Territory, Thievery
Domains: Chaos, Charm, Drow, Envy, Elf, Good, Lust, Moon, Portal, Pride, Trickery, Travel
Worshipers: Drow, Elves, Half-Drow, Hunters, Rogues, Thieves
Aliases: Eilistraee, Vhaeraun
[/u]Cleric Alignments[/u]: NG, CG, CN, CE, NE Favored Weapon: The Moonsword (Bastard Sword), “Shadowflash” (Shortsword)

History/Relationships
The Masked Lady (Pronounced Masked-Lay-Dee) is a relatively new deity, composed of the deities Eilistraee and Vhaeraun. In 1,375 DR, Vhaeraun and Eilistraee merged, to create the Masked Lady. The Masked Lady is both Vhaeraun and Eilistraee combined, and a whole new entity in and of herself simultaneously.

There are many conflict reports as to how and why the Masked Lady came to be, and why. What is confirmed fact is that, in 1,375 DR, Vhaeraun left his divine realm to assault Eilistraee. Mortal followers cast an Epic Spell that opened a portal to her divine realm from the Prime Material Plane. Vhaeraun entered through this portal to gain unauthorized access into his sister’s divine realm that had previously been warded to not allow him entry. This is where factual information ends, and theory and conjecture begin.

Some believe that Vhaeraun fully intended on killing his sister, but was unable to, and his sister eventually overpowered him and absorbed his divine essence. Others say that when he assaulted her, Corellon Larethian, their father, appeared at his daughter’s side, ready to punish Vhaeraun for lifting a finger against her, as he had promised thousands of years ago, and it was he who killed him. Others believe that Vhaeraun actually succeeded in slaying Eilistraee, and that he absorbed her divine essence. Others believe that Eilistraee and Vhaeraun, realizing that neither was powerful enough to destroy Lolth, their mother and enemy, made a pact and merged themselves, to combine their power and unify their churches to better kill the Spider Queen.

The Masked Lady maintained her alliances with the deities that Eilistraee was allied with, but none of the deities that Vhaeraun was allied with. The Masked Lady continues to be unusually close to the Human deity of Magic, Mystra, and shares her Chosen, Qilué Veladorn, with her. She is also close with Calladuaran Smoothhands, Haela Brightaxe, Lurue, and Selûne, and most of the Seldarine. Sehanine Moonbow, while friendly with Eilistraee, is suspicious of the Masked Lady, as is Shevarash.

The Masked Lady has many enemies. Most enemies are the deities of Underdark races that prey on her followers, such as Blibdoolpoolp, Deep Duerra, Diinkarazan, Diirinka, Gzemnid, Ilsensine, Ilxendren, Laduguer, Laogzed, the now-deceased Maanzecorian, The Blood Queen and the Great Mother.

Above all, the Masked Lady despises the Dark Seldarine. She hates the corruption, depravity, madness and unredeemable evil that Kiaransalee and Ghaunadaur represent. She views Selvatarm as a long soul who had many chances to escape the evil he found himself entwined in, but did not, and as such, is as evil and mad as those he associates with. The Masked Lady saves her greatest enmity for Lolth, who she sees as a scourge on the multiverse that must be eliminated.

The Masked Lady maintains two divine realms, the Hill of the Dancing Moon and Ellaniath. The former was Eilistraee’s former divine realm, and can be found on Arvandor. The latter was Vhaeraun’s former divine realm, and can be found on the Demonweb Pits. The Hill of the Dancing Moon a large glade filled with fey music that is illuminated by motes of light from the full moon above. Ellaniath is little more than a small hiding place near the bottom of the Demonweb Pits that a shaft of moonlight perpetually shines down upon.

Dogma
It is in the darkest of shadows that the brightest lights can be found. Light and darkness are two sides of the same coin; they depend on each other for their continued existence. Use the shadows while never forgetting the power of the light. Use the light while never forgetting the power of the shadows. The malevolence of Lolth must be swept away for the power of the Masked Lady to shine. It is only when light and darkness come together that the drow can be rid of Lolth. Let not petty differences divide not the children of darkness and light. Cast aside superficial differences and unite such that the followers of the Masked Lady put together a unified force against Lolth and her evil followers and free the Drow from her web of intrigue once and for all.

Avatar/Manifestations
The Masked Lady has yet to take a direct hand in the affairs of mortals, conjuring an avatar to appear to her people. Her followers have deduced what she would appear like, however. Like Eilistraee, the Masked Lady takes the form of a tall drow woman, with ankle length silver hair. Like Vhaeraun, she appears wearing a black half-mask on her face and a diaphanous black silk robe across her body that has tiny moon motes trapped within it.

The Masked Lady’s most common manifestations are a wordless melody in the wind, a few echoing harp notes in the breeze, a haunting, fey laugh that seems always on the next horizon, and a flock of silvery lunar moths that lead those who become lost in the direction they need to go in, or those who need some indication of the best route to take. In rare circumstances, the Masked Lady manifests her favor upon followers as Moonfire, the sacred spell of Eilistraee. The Moonfire of the Masked Lady is different, however, as it appears as a silvery radiance with a dark, shadowy center.

She also demonstrates her favor by having her followers find black opals, black sapphires, black-hued chalcedony, crown of silver, hematite, horn coral, black-hued jasper, jet, black-hued marble, obsidian, black-hued onyx, black-hued pearls, ravenar, or samarskite, mithral, moonbars, moonstones and silver, by providing them with the inspiration to compose a great work of art, such as a song, music, or a weapon, or by causing them to find dead spiders. She indicates her displeasure with a sudden artistic inability, the inability to catch anything while hunting, a sudden, rising cold breeze and chills in one’s hands, or feet.

Agents/Petitioners
The Masked Lady is served by aasimar, aasimon, asuras, black cats, cath shee, drow, einheriar, eladrin, elves, mercury dragons, elven cats, feystags, frosts, gehreleth (farastu, kelubar, and shator), hollyphants, incarnates of faith, incarnates of hope, lythari, mephits (air, smoke, and earth), mist dragons, moon dogs, moon horses, pixies, radiance quasielementals, ravens, reverend ones, shadow dragons, shadows, silver dragons, sprites, sunflies, tieflings, vaeraith, yeth hounds, and normal-looking animals with silver-colored eyes.

The Masked Lady has one Chosen who operates in Realmspace, and a number of others who operate elsewhere across the multiverse. Qilué Veladorn is the Masked Lady’s primary servitor on Faerûn, leading her faithful in the Promenade Temple. The circumstances of her birth were unusual, to say the least, but it is because of these circumstances that the drow woman is a Chosen of both the Masked Lady and Mystra.
Ingrid Liansdottir is a drow woman who, stories say, is just as beautiful as her mistress, and another one of the Masked Lady’s Chosen. The Masked Lady has granted her Chosen the ability to seduce others with a single word, and the ability to make her curses come true. Allinzir G’Leera is a drow male who possesses exceptional thieving skills, the ability to always see things for what they are, and the ability to meld into the darkness. He also serves the Masked Lady as a Chosen.

The Church of the Masked Lady
The Church of the Masked Lady, currently, is very fractionalized, because of the fact that Eilistraee and Vhaeraun, the two deities who became the Masked Lady, were once enemies, with churches who sought to oppose each other. As a result, there has been a considerable amount of difficulty in unifying the two churches. While most followers have come to accept the Masked Lady, and all of her followers, many of her more orthodox followers who once worshipped Eilistraee do not fully accept those who once worshipped Vhaeraun. Likewise, many of her more orthodox followers who once followed Vhaeraun do not fully accept those who once worshipped Eilistraee.
Temples dedicated to the Masked Lady appear very similar to those dedicated to the Seldarine- pristine, natural sites that need little modification. Temple complexes usually include a glade to dance in, a dark place removed from the harsh light of day, a fresh water stream, a forge and smithy, an access tunnel to the Underdark, and a nearby
vein of iron, or a similar metal. Shrines dedicated to the Dark Maiden are not so complex, and need only be a moonlit glade, and a song to dance to. It is rare that they be in full, plain view, but signals in nature, such as shafts of light shining down from the moon, point them out to followers who know where to look.

Collectively, the female clergy of the Masked Lady are known as Dark Maidens, and the male clergy of the Masked Lady are known as Darkmasks. Those who have not yet been ordained as priestess’ are called ‘Maids’, if they are female, and ‘Uncloaked’, if they are male. Formal titles used by the clergy of both Eilistraee and Vhaeraun are no longer used, and instead, priests and priestess’ alike, regardless of gender, are known as ‘Dancers in Shadow’.
The majority of her faithful are Drow Elves, who once worshipped either Eilistraee or Vhaeraun. Many tolerant Elves, who wish to extend the laurel branch to the Drow, rather than the sword, and seek to aid them in casting off Lolth’s yoke of oppression venerate the Masked Lady as well. Former slaves of various races have come to venerate the Masked Lady as well, because it is because of her that they were either able to escape, or able to find safety from their slave masters. Her dogma of freeing others from oppression appeals to individuals regardless of race that seek to be free.

Day-to-Day Activities
Whenever and wherever possible, the faithful of the Dark Maiden encourage Drow to return to the surface world and forsake the evil deities of the Underdark, especially Lolth. When not possible, for whatever reason, passive opposition to Lolth and her priestess’ is encouraged.

The faithful of the Masked Lady nurture and encourage beauty, music, song and art wherever they find it. Most priests or priestess’ are skilled at playing the horn, flute, or harp, and are adequate singers, and graceful dancers. Though these arts, followers should seek to reestablish ties with other races, especially their Elven cousins, and demonstrate that Drow are not inherently evil, but rather, tainted by the corruptive presence of Lolth in their mainstream society.

The faithful of the Masked Lady also assist hunters while hunting, and take part in hunting themselves. Nature is a force to work in unison with, not against. As such, efforts should be made to avoid synthetic materials and use only natural materials. Because nature is composed of both ‘good’ and ‘bad’, knowledge of all of nature’s facets should be attained, to allow the faithful of the Masked Lady to best use it against their enemies. Holy Days/Important Ceremonies
The Church of the Masked Lady celebrates numerous rituals and festivals, the most important among them being the High Hunt. Priests and priestess’ hunt a dangerous beast by moonlight, carrying a single bladed weapon and wearing only a black mask. Their quarry is chased and hunted, and the Masked Lady emphasizes the use of the individuals’ mind, as well as their brute strength and martial prowess.

The Moon Pilgrimage is an annual revel held by followers of the Masked Lady. Under the light of the full moon, worshippers dance, sing and give offerings within a glade hidden by their natural use of the Darkness spell. These offerings, usually of alcohol, are collected in a black bowl, and then passed around to the faithful, until it is all consumed.

Those priests and priestess’ who do not die in the struggle against Lolth partake in the religion’s most mystic ritual, the Last Dance. In their old age, they hear the Masked Lady singing to them, calling them to her. When the song feels right, they go out unclad under the moonlit sky and dance, never to be seen again. As the individual dances, they seem to become younger and younger. Their hair begins to glow, and they slowly become translucent, fading away as the dance progresses. In the end, as the silvery radiance begins to fade away, two voices- the dancer and the Masked Lady- reach a crescendo, which fades away into the night air.

Major Centers of Worship
The center of the Masked Lady’s worship is the Promenade, formerly Eilistraee’s center of worship. Here, she directs her Chosen and ministers to her people in Realmspace. Because the Promenade was once a church of Eilistraee, many of the priestess’ have not fully accepted Vhaeraun’s followers, and cling to their former ways. Males are not permitted in some of the holiest site in the Promenade, or allowed to participate in some rituals performed there, for examples. Darkmasks exist, however, and serve the Masked Lady, as do Dark Maidens.

On the surface world, the Masked Lady has numerous shrines, but very few actual temples. Where Drow exist on the surface world, it is likely that a shrine or temple dedicated to the Masked Lady exist. Most shrines or temples once belonged to either Eilistraee or Vhaeraun, and have since been rededicated.

Affiliated Orders
The Masked Lady has three main orders- the Darksong Knights, the Protectors of the Song, and the Dark Daggers. Both organizations operate mostly the same since before the merger of Eilistraee and Vhaeraun. Vhaeraun once supported ‘Traitor Priestess’, Drow priestess who worshipped both Lolth and Vhaeraun simultaneously. The Masked Lady does not tolerate these priestess’, and does not support them with her power if she discovers that they continue to venerate Lolth.

The Darksong Knights are an elite order of warrior-priestess’ who have, of late, been active in the south. The order has a very militaristic hierarchy, is very centralized, and is led by the High Priestess of the Promenade. Every members of the order is expected to devote her life to the furthering of the Masked Lady’s wishes, and in particular, the destruction of the Yochlol, and other Demons that serve Lolth.

The Protectors of the Song are another elite order of warrior-priestess’. The Protectors of the Song serve as the guards of the Promenade, and they wield the temple’s few sacred singing swords. Although they are quite small in number, they are highly efficient, and are feared by enemies, and respected by allies.

The Dark Dagger is shady organization whispered across dark alleys around the cities and nations of the Inner Sea. Individually powerful, but few in number, Dark Dagger agents habitually use poison, which they are largely immune to, as their “calling card”. They quickly take control of local thieving guilds and fellowships behind the scenes, hire skilled Human and humanoid agents as fronts, and use the information they gain from these illicit businesses to inform themselves of the continually changing political structure in the Underdark, as well as on the World Above.

Priestly Vestments
Because of the great deal of confusion that went on when the churches of Eilistraee and Vhaeraun unified, there is no set type of garb that priests and priestess’ wear. Those who have become priests or priestess’ since the merger of Eilistraee and Vhaeraun typically combine the features of both.

For the most part, the Dark Ladies continue wearing their hair long, and dress for whatever it is that they are currently doing. During holy rituals, they wear as little as possible. While hunting, they wear soft leathers. When battle is expected, they wear heavier armors, but not heavy enough to impede their movement. When relaxing, they favor silvery, see-through, diaphanous gowns. The holy symbol of the faith is typically worn as a pin or is hung around the neck on a slender silver or mithral chain. For the most part, Darkmasks garb themselves in half-masks, loose silk shirts, form-fitting pants, and leather boots, all of which are as black as possible. They are never without at least one bladed weapon, such as a dagger, on their person, and most are normally armed with half a dozen or more such weapons, all in hidden spots.

Adventuring Garb
Because of the great deal of confusion that went on when the churches of Eilistraee and Vhaeraun unified, there is no set type of garb that priests and priestess’ wear while adventuring. For the most part, the Dark Ladies continue following their traditions- wearing magical armor, using swords, or other bladed weapons, when swords are not available, and bows. For the most part, the Darkmasks continue following their traditions- eschewing all armors except for light leathers, using short bladed weapons, and poisons. Those who have become priests or priestess’ since the merger of Eilistraee and Vhaeraun typically combine the features of both.


*NOTE*
I copied and pasted this from a .PDF file I made, if anyone wants the .PDF.

(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)

Elves of Faerûn
Vol I- The Elves of Faerûn
Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium

Edited by - Lord Karsus on 10 May 2011 07:45:08
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Zireael
Master of Realmslore

Poland
1190 Posts

Posted - 10 May 2011 :  08:09:44  Show Profile  Visit Zireael's Homepage Send Zireael a Private Message
*scratch* Is it from Elves of Faerun, LK? And I love it, when I get home, this goes on my HDD.

SiNafay Vrinn, the daughter of Lloth, from Ched Nasad!

http://zireael07.wordpress.com/
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AleksanderTheGreat
Seeker

90 Posts

Posted - 10 May 2011 :  08:10:31  Show Profile Send AleksanderTheGreat a Private Message
Hm... That's mostly identical to Eilistraees description. It all talks about freeing drow and fighting Lolths evil, yet still Eilistraee herself can have evil clerics. I looks to me that you just slapped Vhaerauns portfolio, domains and cleric alignments on Eilistraee and changed her alignment, but practicly didn't change the rest. That's sloppy.

Fighting for order! - Join me in the battle!
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader

USA
3736 Posts

Posted - 10 May 2011 :  08:17:25  Show Profile Send Lord Karsus a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Zireael

*scratch* Is it from Elves of Faerun, LK? And I love it, when I get home, this goes on my HDD.



-No. Elves of Faerûn was set before the Masked Lady was "born", so she wasn't featured in it- although, I did allude to it in Eilistraee and Vhaeraun's entries. I don't know why I wrote this up, but whatever.

quote:
Originally posted by AleksanderTheGreat

Hm... That's mostly identical to Eilistraees description. It all talks about freeing drow and fighting Lolths evil, yet still Eilistraee herself can have evil clerics. I looks to me that you just slapped Vhaerauns portfolio, domains and cleric alignments on Eilistraee and changed her alignment, but practicly didn't change the rest. That's sloppy.



-I'd recommend maybe reading again.

(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)

Elves of Faerûn
Vol I- The Elves of Faerûn
Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium

Edited by - Lord Karsus on 10 May 2011 08:17:56
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AleksanderTheGreat
Seeker

90 Posts

Posted - 10 May 2011 :  08:45:26  Show Profile Send AleksanderTheGreat a Private Message
quote:
-I'd recommend maybe reading again.

Look. It's still great work, better then what I would come up with, but writing about fighting evil, yet having evil followers is kinda... wierd.

Fighting for order! - Join me in the battle!
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Brimstone
Great Reader

USA
3285 Posts

Posted - 10 May 2011 :  12:31:09  Show Profile Send Brimstone a Private Message

"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep
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AleksanderTheGreat
Seeker

90 Posts

Posted - 10 May 2011 :  12:47:40  Show Profile Send AleksanderTheGreat a Private Message
@ Brimstone
You have something useful to add, besides one single emoticon?

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Brimstone
Great Reader

USA
3285 Posts

Posted - 10 May 2011 :  15:31:36  Show Profile Send Brimstone a Private Message
No...

"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep
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Dracons
Learned Scribe

USA
299 Posts

Posted - 10 May 2011 :  16:45:19  Show Profile  Visit Dracons's Homepage Send Dracons a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by AleksanderTheGreat

quote:
-I'd recommend maybe reading again.

Look. It's still great work, better then what I would come up with, but writing about fighting evil, yet having evil followers is kinda... wierd.



I too, would suggest, you know, reading the whole thing rather then skimming as it does go into detail about having evil followers and fighting evil.


Mayhaps in your world it's strictly black and white, and evil can only team up and work with evil and good can only do good with good creatures, but often doesn't work that way. Like her dogma of using good and evil to be balanced, (As she is now CN), she uses the dark forces to poison and murder their way through the top of underdark politicial positions as to better curturl and control what underdark denzions do.

Again, read it, rather then skim, and you'll learn. Amazing what happens when you read.

I love PMs! Please send me a message. Even if its Hi.
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AleksanderTheGreat
Seeker

90 Posts

Posted - 10 May 2011 :  17:01:56  Show Profile Send AleksanderTheGreat a Private Message
Yeaaaah... Maybe I'm blind, or maybe I'm retarded, but I don't see what you see, Dracons.

Fighting for order! - Join me in the battle!

Edited by - AleksanderTheGreat on 10 May 2011 17:02:16
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader

USA
3750 Posts

Posted - 14 May 2011 :  04:48:46  Show Profile Send Alystra Illianniis a Private Message
I like it for the most part, but it does seem as if a lot of it was merely spliced together. I'd like to see some more detailed work-up of how she uses the portfolios and tactics Vaerhaun had in her fight against Lolth. I am familiar with the "fight fire with fire" idea, but this part seems a little under-thought out.

The Goddess is alive, and magic is afoot.

"Where Science ends, Magic begins" -Spiral, Uncanny X-Men #491

"You idiots! You've captured their STUNT doubles!" -Spaceballs

Lothir's character background/stats: http://forum.candlekeep.com/pop_profile.asp?mode=display&id=5469

My stories:
http://z3.invisionfree.com/Mickeys_Comic_Tavern/index.php?showforum=188

Lothir, courtesy of Sylinde (Deviant Art)/Luaxena (Chosen of Eilistraee)
http://sylinde.deviantart.com/#/d2z6e4u
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader

USA
3736 Posts

Posted - 14 May 2011 :  06:46:29  Show Profile Send Lord Karsus a Private Message
-The Masked Lady's clergy was, as you say, spliced together and fragmented in the brief time she existed as a deity. The disdain and mistrust that Eilistraee's former clergy regarded Vhaerain's clergy, and vice-versa, is evident in Storm of the Dead and Ascendancy of the Last. Some of my favorite scenes in those books are the priestesses of Eilistraee "being schooled" when feeling disdain for their former Vhaeraunite compatriots, only to have that disdain come back to bite them in their asses when the Vhaeraunites turned out to be loyal allies and just as favored by the Masked Lady as they are.

(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)

Elves of Faerûn
Vol I- The Elves of Faerûn
Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium
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Marc
Senior Scribe

657 Posts

Posted - 16 May 2011 :  19:58:23  Show Profile Send Marc a Private Message
Having Mask and Masked Lady at the same time would be redundant, unless they get together

.
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader

USA
3750 Posts

Posted - 16 May 2011 :  20:14:49  Show Profile Send Alystra Illianniis a Private Message
Mask is a different deity, with vastly different focus. Though there has been a bit of speculation whether he and Vaerhaun are the same deity. (Vaerhaun is older IIRC.) It's not redundant if she has drow as her main followers, while most of his are humans. They don't really interact.

The Goddess is alive, and magic is afoot.

"Where Science ends, Magic begins" -Spiral, Uncanny X-Men #491

"You idiots! You've captured their STUNT doubles!" -Spaceballs

Lothir's character background/stats: http://forum.candlekeep.com/pop_profile.asp?mode=display&id=5469

My stories:
http://z3.invisionfree.com/Mickeys_Comic_Tavern/index.php?showforum=188

Lothir, courtesy of Sylinde (Deviant Art)/Luaxena (Chosen of Eilistraee)
http://sylinde.deviantart.com/#/d2z6e4u
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Marc
Senior Scribe

657 Posts

Posted - 16 May 2011 :  21:53:52  Show Profile Send Marc a Private Message
I mean the names, Mask and Masked Lady, would be like Mystra and Mysterious Mister, or Helm and Helmed Maid.

.
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader

USA
3750 Posts

Posted - 17 May 2011 :  02:54:00  Show Profile Send Alystra Illianniis a Private Message
Can't be any worse than Torm the god and Torm the thief....

The Goddess is alive, and magic is afoot.

"Where Science ends, Magic begins" -Spiral, Uncanny X-Men #491

"You idiots! You've captured their STUNT doubles!" -Spaceballs

Lothir's character background/stats: http://forum.candlekeep.com/pop_profile.asp?mode=display&id=5469

My stories:
http://z3.invisionfree.com/Mickeys_Comic_Tavern/index.php?showforum=188

Lothir, courtesy of Sylinde (Deviant Art)/Luaxena (Chosen of Eilistraee)
http://sylinde.deviantart.com/#/d2z6e4u
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader

USA
3736 Posts

Posted - 17 May 2011 :  08:04:01  Show Profile Send Lord Karsus a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis

Mask is a different deity, with vastly different focus. Though there has been a bit of speculation whether he and Vaerhaun are the same deity. (Vaerhaun is older IIRC.) It's not redundant if she has drow as her main followers, while most of his are humans. They don't really interact.



-Vhaeraun is, at the very least, +/- 32,000 years old, with Lolth being cast from the Seldarine in -30,000 DR and Vhaeraun playing a role in her fall, and being cast from Arvandor and the Seldarine himself. Mask, his true age is a bit more ambiguous, but we can't say for certain if he's older or younger than +/- 32,000, because of the tidbits in the Erevis Cale/Twilight War trilogies, that he and Shar are multispheric deities- he could have been born/created billions and billions of years ago, and only relatively recently come to Realmspace.

(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)

Elves of Faerûn
Vol I- The Elves of Faerûn
Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader

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Posted - 19 May 2011 :  02:57:02  Show Profile Send Alystra Illianniis a Private Message
True, but his earliest mentions don't appear to place him as that old. Hence why most think Vearhuan is older.

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Lord Karsus
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Posted - 19 May 2011 :  05:58:06  Show Profile Send Lord Karsus a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis

True, but his earliest mentions don't appear to place him as that old. Hence why most think Vearhuan is older.



-Masks' history is shrouded in mystery (and rightfully so) to estimate an accurate age. Vhaeraun, at least we have a minimum age he is. Most deities don't have precise ages or genesis points, or whatever you want to call them. As someone who wants all the information, absolutely, it's annoying, but to have information and canon facts like that, I think it'd diminish, to a degree, the mystery of "higher powers", like deities, etc.

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Brimstone
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Posted - 19 May 2011 :  09:11:55  Show Profile Send Brimstone a Private Message
I forget where I heard it. I think Alediran's(Fellow Hand of Karsus) Realms Vault(Remember that place?). That Mask was an ancient Imaskari Deity. I know I asked Ed a question about Mask years ago, and no response so far...

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Lord Karsus
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Posted - 20 May 2011 :  04:10:36  Show Profile Send Lord Karsus a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Brimstone

I forget where I heard it. I think Alediran's(Fellow Hand of Karsus) Realms Vault(Remember that place?). That Mask was an ancient Imaskari Deity. I know I asked Ed a question about Mask years ago, and no response so far...



-Honestly, don't remember. I wouldn't be surprised if he was of (in Realmspace) of Talfiric origins, given their shadowy connections.

-Wish the Realmsvault was still up. Nobody ever really participated in the Realms Reconstruction Project, adding their own lore and such in the post-1375 DR timeline, and Alediran saved himself the cash for the domain name and bandwith and all that, since nobody really bothered doing the main thing he created it for. There was also poliical stuff in Argentina, if I recall correctly, and he got engaged to his girlfriend.

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Brimstone
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Posted - 20 May 2011 :  07:32:18  Show Profile Send Brimstone a Private Message
It may have been in the 2008 Ask Ed scroll.

Talfir forgot about them. Shadowking, Ebonfar. It could fit.

"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
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words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
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Lord Karsus
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Posted - 22 May 2011 :  22:28:07  Show Profile Send Lord Karsus a Private Message
-An easily forgettable, but relatively cool, people.

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MrHedgehog
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Posted - 30 May 2011 :  07:27:17  Show Profile  Visit MrHedgehog's Homepage Send MrHedgehog a Private Message
I agree that having a Masked Lady and Mask was redundant. I've never liked the idea of racial deities. Worshipers would interpret deities as being of their race - but deities shouldn't have races in my opinion.
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Alystra Illianniis
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Posted - 30 May 2011 :  17:39:39  Show Profile Send Alystra Illianniis a Private Message
Why not? They are the creators of their respective races, so why WOULDN'T they be of that particular "race" themselves? If kobolds can have their own faiths and religions, with distinctive gods that other races do not follow, why wouldn't those gods be of their own race rather than human or what-have-you? That would not make any sense for the gods who are LIMITED to certain races to not be of the race of their followers. Different races have different ideals, perspectives, and beliefs about what is important to them, so their gods will naturally reflect their own visions of the divine- and that's as it SHOULD be, since they were supposedly "created" by those gods. Obviously, if Corellon created the elves, he made them IN HIS OWN IMAGE- which would explain why there were so many separate races to begin with.

The thinking that deities cannot have or be of a "race" sounds too much like RW thinking, IMO. In our own world, there is only one "race"(human), so all deities are seen from that perspective, because there is nothing to compare them to. In D&D, different races co-exist, each with their own god or gods. There is not one overall POV of what a deity looks like or IS. The Egyptians probably came the closest to having deities of another race, with their animal-headed gods. But even if you look at RW mythology, each culture's gods had an appearance of their own culture, and no ohther. In other words, Thor would have the appearance of the Nordic peoples, while hindu gods like Shiva resembled the people who worshiped them. So there you have it- "racial" gods in RL. All the more reason for separate races in D&D to have gods that resemble their own people!

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Lord Karsus
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Posted - 30 May 2011 :  19:27:07  Show Profile Send Lord Karsus a Private Message
-Agreed. In D&D, it's generally accepted that (a) deities are actual entities, and (b) in the case of plenty of races, their racial deity/deities literally created the race- or, if you want to look at it inversely, the origins of the race is shrouded in mystery, but the deities came into being when members of the race began worshiping the abstract concepts of the cosmos. In either case, though, you have actual entities intimately tied to specific D&D races.

-There's also a great deal of migration to and from Realmspace, in terms of deities and races. The Elves came from the Plane of Faerie to Realmspace, and brought with them the worship of Sehanine Moonbow, for example. Within Realmspace, at some point, Selûne came into being, and people started worshiping her. We've since learned in 4e lore that Sehanine Moonbow is really Selûne's Elven "guise". Why would Elves actually be worshiping an Faerûnian entity that predated their existence in Realmspace, as opposed to an Elven or Fey entity that they had with them already? A rhetorical question, to make a point about that concept. There's just too many migrations of people to and from Realmspace, over the course of tens of thousands of years, for too many peoples and races to be worshiping the same entities, albeit with different names or guises, in my opinion.

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Alystra Illianniis
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Posted - 30 May 2011 :  21:56:09  Show Profile Send Alystra Illianniis a Private Message
I agree completely with what you said, LK. It would not make sense for them to all be worshiping the same deities, when they had their own long beforee they even arrived. While I don't consider Fairie to be its own plane so much as another world, most of what you said fits with all the lore as we know it, and explains why different races follow gods who look like them. They literally are created by their gods, in most cases- even the orcs' mythology says this!

The Goddess is alive, and magic is afoot.

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"You idiots! You've captured their STUNT doubles!" -Spaceballs

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MrHedgehog
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Posted - 31 May 2011 :  09:23:02  Show Profile  Visit MrHedgehog's Homepage Send MrHedgehog a Private Message
Regardless of the fact that racial deities have been canonical for the realms I still don't personally like it. I'm not arguing the fact that there have been racial deities in the realms, it just isn't an idea that appeals to me.

In the real world people seem to often portray their religious figures as being of their own race. With the example of Sehanine, she would be a deity they worshiped in another world. Selune is the moon goddess of the realms and so she would answer prayers to those who prayed to Sehanine. Selune is a creator goddess of the world they now reside in, so it is her that it would make sense for them to worship upon migrating to the realms.

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Wooly Rupert
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Posted - 31 May 2011 :  10:48:06  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by MrHedgehog

Selune is a creator goddess of the world they now reside in, so it is her that it would make sense for them to worship upon migrating to the realms.





So it makes sense for a migrating group to drop whatever deity they've worshipped for millenia, just because there's a local one that covers the same area?

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Lord Karsus
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Posted - 31 May 2011 :  17:22:39  Show Profile Send Lord Karsus a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by MrHedgehog

With the example of Sehanine, she would be a deity they worshiped in another world. Selune is the moon goddess of the realms and so she would answer prayers to those who prayed to Sehanine. Selune is a creator goddess of the world they now reside in, so it is her that it would make sense for them to worship upon migrating to the realms.


-Sehanine Moonbow 'follows' her worshipers into Realmspace. It's not as if, when a foreign group comes to Realmspace, the deities they worshiped can't get in, and some other deity who already exists and is operational within Realmspace "fills the void". When the Elves came to Realmspace, and they brought with them the worship of Sehanine Moonbow, Sehanine Moonbow "came to Realmspace" with her followers.

quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

So it makes sense for a migrating group to drop whatever deity they've worshipped for millenia, just because there's a local one that covers the same area?



-I think he was arguing more in favor of a similar deity stepping in and granting the spells of that immigrant group, under the guise of whoever/whatever it is that they're worshiping. Selûne granting the spells of Sehanine Moonbow's followers, with them thinking they're worshiping Sehanine Moonbow, when it's really Selûne who is helping them out. It's a concept that I only really like situation to situation. In the above specific example, as mentioned, there's no reason why Sehanine Moonbow wouldn't just come to Realmspace and become active, since some of her followers went to Realmspace.

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Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium

Edited by - Lord Karsus on 31 May 2011 17:25:31
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