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Falstaffsrevenge
Seeker

USA
16 Posts

Posted - 15 Jul 2011 :  12:59:23  Show Profile Send Falstaffsrevenge a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I voted for Mystra for obvious reasons. I dislike the RSE that brought 4th ed. into existence. Also I know he is a minor diety/extrach (sp) but I still hold a special place in my heart for Finder. Although I don't know that he is dead, or if he is just on a walk about.

Some friends are like slinkies, not much use, but they still bring a smile to your face when you push them down stairs.
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Aulduron
Learned Scribe

USA
342 Posts

Posted - 18 Jul 2011 :  18:10:41  Show Profile Send Aulduron a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Mystra and Elistraee were my favorite deities, because they seemed to be the only ones who cared about their worshipers, as Ao decreed. Qilue was my favorite mortal. Lathander himself was OK, but some of his followers made certain series' worth reading. Mask and Erevis will be missed by me, while they are gone.

Aren't dark elves now allowed to worship the Seldarine?

"Those with talent become wizards, Those without talent spend their lives praying for it"

-Procopio Septus
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author

USA
4586 Posts

Posted - 18 Jul 2011 :  18:37:08  Show Profile  Visit Erik Scott de Bie's Homepage  Send Erik Scott de Bie an AOL message Send Erik Scott de Bie a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by RedneckBadgerLord

I really dislike how R.A. Salvatore, Lisa Smedman, and a few other authors have managed to kill off my favorite characters in a few books. (no I won't rant. I just don't like how a few authors seem to make all the decisions.)
One should be wary of ascribing blame, as in many cases we simply don't know if character deaths were determined by the author or handed down from on high. Many major FR plot points/events/character deaths (particularly the really big ones) are scripted by the book department at WotC and not subject to authorial editing. It's easy to blame the author, but in some cases, it's the author making the best of a bad situation.

It's what happened, and it does no good to assign blame.

Also, I don't think you meant it that way, but one can disagree without being disrespectful (hence my correction in the quote above).

Cheers

Erik Scott de Bie

'Tis easier to destroy than to create.

Signature of Shameless Self-Promotion +6: Order my sixth novel, Shadow of the Winter King (Amazon, e-signing, Dragonmoon Press)

Also check out my Realms work, most recently Shadowbane: Eye of Justice, out now on e-readers everywhere! (Kindle, Nook)
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Seravin
Senior Scribe

Canada
792 Posts

Posted - 22 Jul 2011 :  16:00:11  Show Profile Send Seravin a Private Message  Reply with Quote
While we don't know if the deaths were mandated by WoTC or a personal decision, I really think it was lame the way Bob killed off Regis and Catti-brie. Wulfgar and Bruenor got decent enough send offs and resoultion (especially Bruenor), but both Regis and Catti-brie had pointless off screen deaths unfitting their character's legacy. I know a lot of fans felt this way. Normally Salvatore is such an amazing writer, and I love his characters, but that is one instance where I felt let down. And yes, I also blame 4th Edition for it, fairly or not!
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Hawkins
Great Reader

USA
2130 Posts

Posted - 22 Jul 2011 :  17:43:06  Show Profile  Visit Hawkins's Homepage Send Hawkins a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie

quote:
Originally posted by RedneckBadgerLord

I really dislike how R.A. Salvatore, Lisa Smedman, and a few other authors have managed to kill off my favorite characters in a few books. (no I won't rant. I just don't like how a few authors seem to make all the decisions.)
One should be wary of ascribing blame, as in many cases we simply don't know if character deaths were determined by the author or handed down from on high. Many major FR plot points/events/character deaths (particularly the really big ones) are scripted by the book department at WotC and not subject to authorial editing. It's easy to blame the author, but in some cases, it's the author making the best of a bad situation.

It's what happened, and it does no good to assign blame.

Also, I don't think you meant it that way, but one can disagree without being disrespectful (hence my correction in the quote above).

Cheers


Much as R. A. Salvatore was forced to kill off Chewbacca in the first novel of the New Jedi Order series. Unfortunate, since that caused much fan rage against him because they wrongly blamed him for Chewie's death.

Errant d20 Designer - My Blog (last updated January 06, 2016)

One, two! One, two! And through and through
The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
He left it dead, and with its head
He went galumphing back. --Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking-Glass

"Mmm, not the darkness," Myrin murmured. "Don't cast it there." --Erik Scott de Bie, Shadowbane

* My character sheets (PFRPG, 3.5, and AE versions; not viewable in Internet Explorer)
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My game design work:
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* Martial Arts Guidebook (forthcoming) (PFRPG, designer; Rite Publishing)
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Joran Nobleheart
Senior Scribe

USA
489 Posts

Posted - 23 Jul 2011 :  07:26:09  Show Profile  Visit Joran Nobleheart's Homepage Send Joran Nobleheart a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I have to say it's kind of tied between Azuth for me and Tyr. The poor crafting of the story of Azuth's death and the equal bad writing between Helm and Tyr is just... ugh. Lathander I never did like, and always preferred Amaunator in my own games, where I still had his clergy active, though few. I always felt Lathander was just utterly childish, not to mention moronic. Just like most of his followers I've seen portrayed. Especially with PCs. Apparently, as one of my own characters remarked, "To follow Lathander, you have to stare into the sun until your brains and all good sense is fully baked away."

Paladinic Ethos
Saint Joran Nobleheart

Edited by - Joran Nobleheart on 23 Jul 2011 07:31:00
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Xnella Moonblade-Thann
Learned Scribe

USA
227 Posts

Posted - 05 Aug 2011 :  20:54:35  Show Profile Send Xnella Moonblade-Thann a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by jornan

Mask will be back in some form. Paul Kemp has sown the seeds for it.

Mystra will be back in some form. Ed has also sown the seeds for it. She has been dead before.

Many of the other dieties protfolios have merely been subsumed into another Gods. That is fine by me and is nothing new to the realms. Infact I have always quite enjoyed the plottings of the Gods.



Mystra may come back...seems plausible (and hopefully it happens). But I don't play 4e (3e/3.5e was what I was introduced to, and still love to this day!) and have an alternate Toril that I play in which is, ironically, set just a half-dozen years after the Spellplague should have happened (and never will happen in my alternate Toril if I have my way). And I have read somewhere (maybe from a download on here...can't quite remember...) that there could be a "cannon" alternate Toril that has not seen the Spellplague and therefore Mystra (along with any of the other gods that "died" between 3.5e and 4e) is quite possibly alive.

"Sweet water and light laughter until next we meet." - traditional elven farewell

Please forgive any spelling and grammer errors, as my android touch-screen phone has no spellchecker. If I do make a grammer mistake, please let me know and I'll try to fix it.

Somehow I'm missing my Eberron stuff that the gremlins took when my laptop died over a year ago, but I shall get them buggers yet!
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Dennis
Great Reader

9933 Posts

Posted - 06 Aug 2011 :  03:28:55  Show Profile Send Dennis a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Xnella Moonblade-Thann

And I have read somewhere (maybe from a download on here...can't quite remember...) that there could be a "cannon" alternate Toril that has not seen the Spellplague and therefore Mystra (along with any of the other gods that "died" between 3.5e and 4e) is quite possibly alive.



Intriguing, but I never heard of it before.

Every beginning has an end.
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Azuth
Senior Scribe

USA
402 Posts

Posted - 06 Aug 2011 :  05:22:39  Show Profile  Visit Azuth's Homepage Send Azuth a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis

Intriguing, but I never heard of it before.




SPOILER ALERT! Highlight below after you've read Ed's latest book.

Mystra would appear not to be dead according to Bury Elminster Deep so I may have to revise this poll. It is also hinted by dear Ed that Azuth may also be saved, which brings me great relief! ;-)


So, it's safe to say I really loved the new book, and kudos to Ed.

Azuth, the First Magister
Lord of All Spells

The greatest expression of creativity is through Art.
Offense can never be given, only taken.
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Dennis
Great Reader

9933 Posts

Posted - 06 Aug 2011 :  05:31:30  Show Profile Send Dennis a Private Message  Reply with Quote

Yes, even in Elminster Must Die Ed already hinted of Mystra's return. What I meant in my previous post is the 'alternate Toril where the SP never happened.' I don't recall any books saying such a thing. And Xnella said it's "canon." So it must be in one of the novels. As far as I know, all the events in the new Elminster series are post-Spellplague.

Every beginning has an end.
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Azuth
Senior Scribe

USA
402 Posts

Posted - 06 Aug 2011 :  05:58:03  Show Profile  Visit Azuth's Homepage Send Azuth a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis


Yes, even in Elminster Must Die Ed already hinted of Mystra's return. What I meant in my previous post is the 'alternate Toril where the SP never happened.' I don't recall any books saying such a thing. And Xnella said it's "canon." So it must be in one of the novels. As far as I know, all the events in the new Elminster series are post-Spellplague.


Sorry, Dennis. I didn't mean to reply to your post. That's what happens when I type late. :-S

Azuth, the First Magister
Lord of All Spells

The greatest expression of creativity is through Art.
Offense can never be given, only taken.
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Lady Shadowflame
Learned Scribe

115 Posts

Posted - 08 Aug 2011 :  05:26:21  Show Profile Send Lady Shadowflame a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I voted for Eilistraee...
To be metaphorical, the plagues of the world were in Pandora's box... but hope was kept within there also.
I see Eilistraee as that hope, to counter the evil that subsumed the drow when they fell.
Besides, she was a chance for good drow without their having to be angsty renegades. And, ahem, Drizzt clones, since one Drizzt is quite enough for me even if I like him...

But Tyr, Lathander, Mystra and all the rest... I wish they hadn't died, too. It's pretty much one of the reasons I resist the change - all the dead deities, characters and places.

Save a lizard... Ride a drow.
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Thauranil
Master of Realmslore

India
1591 Posts

Posted - 29 Dec 2011 :  15:24:31  Show Profile Send Thauranil a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Lady Shadowflame

I voted for Eilistraee...
To be metaphorical, the plagues of the world were in Pandora's box... but hope was kept within there also.
I see Eilistraee as that hope, to counter the evil that subsumed the drow when they fell.
Besides, she was a chance for good drow without their having to be angsty renegades. And, ahem, Drizzt clones, since one Drizzt is quite enough for me even if I like him...

But Tyr, Lathander, Mystra and all the rest... I wish they hadn't died, too. It's pretty much one of the reasons I resist the change - all the dead deities, characters and places.
thats very true with the loss of so many goodly gods the realms has become a much darker place. while Mystra is the obvious choice i felt that Helm was the one whose death was the most unfair and ahem most unjust.

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Roboginger
Acolyte

USA
7 Posts

Posted - 29 Dec 2011 :  18:14:48  Show Profile Send Roboginger a Private Message  Reply with Quote
My vote went for Mystra, with Mask as a close second, Mystra just seems like the Most important God in the realms.
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Dennis
Great Reader

9933 Posts

Posted - 29 Dec 2011 :  18:42:45  Show Profile Send Dennis a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Roboginger

Mystra just seems like the Most important God in the realms.

Because that's how the designers want it. And Ed, too, (or so it seems).

Every beginning has an end.
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Thauranil
Master of Realmslore

India
1591 Posts

Posted - 30 Dec 2011 :  09:48:28  Show Profile Send Thauranil a Private Message  Reply with Quote
well it certainly seems that her death was the one that caused the most chaos. What with the blue fire and spellplague ravaging the land.
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Aulduron
Learned Scribe

USA
342 Posts

Posted - 31 Dec 2011 :  05:37:27  Show Profile Send Aulduron a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Gee, thanks for the spoiler. Voted Eilistrae this time.
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Azuth
Senior Scribe

USA
402 Posts

Posted - 31 Dec 2011 :  05:48:17  Show Profile  Visit Azuth's Homepage Send Azuth a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Aulduron

Gee, thanks for the spoiler. Voted Eilistrae this time.




Well, if you didn't read Elminster Must Die or Bury Elminster Deep, then yes, it is a spoiler of sorts in that she makes a small appearance in both, meaning she's not dead. As to how alive she is, well, that's another matter entirely...

Azuth


Azuth, the First Magister
Lord of All Spells

The greatest expression of creativity is through Art.
Offense can never be given, only taken.
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Dennis
Great Reader

9933 Posts

Posted - 31 Dec 2011 :  14:33:59  Show Profile Send Dennis a Private Message  Reply with Quote

I'd like to think she was not really killed, but just forced (by Ao) to reboot herself...to regulate her powers, among other reasons.

Every beginning has an end.
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Aulduron
Learned Scribe

USA
342 Posts

Posted - 31 Dec 2011 :  17:03:22  Show Profile Send Aulduron a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I read Elminster Must Die, and there was the vaguest of hints. I'm still waiting for the new one to come out in paperback.
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31690 Posts

Posted - 01 Jan 2012 :  01:09:43  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis


I'd like to think she was not really killed, but just forced (by Ao) to reboot herself...to regulate her powers, among other reasons.

If we look at it from this perspective, then I'd suspect Ao has something else up his divine sleeve beside just a simple reboot for Mystra.

Considering how many times she has already been down this path of repeated death and rebirth, it wouldn't surprise me to learn that Ao and [by extension] whatever remains of Mystra 2.0, have both sat down and had a chat about working to ensure a new Goddess of Magic that is entirely reconstituted in ways that can't be so easily corrupted by others. This would require a fundamental rethinking of Mystra's relationship with the intimate connection between the Weave and Realmspace, as well as her standing amongst the post-Spellplague pantheon of deities.

In other words, we're talking about skipping Mystra 3.0 and jumping straight to Mystra 7.0 or even 8.0.

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Ayrik
Great Reader

Canada
6398 Posts

Posted - 01 Jan 2012 :  01:25:16  Show Profile Send Ayrik a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'd favour an entirely new paradigm, personally. It's so far been demonstrated that each Mystra-Goddess-of-Magic - no matter how "improved" compared to the previous version - is ultimately prone to catastrophic failure after sufficient time. An entirely new approach needs to be taken to establish a stable hierarchy ... whether it be to diffuse the Goddess-of-Magic divinity throughout multiple decentralized vessels or to consolidate all magic (including Shar's) into a single one protected by an unassailable firewall ... or perhaps to simply remove Magic from the system entirely.

[/Ayrik]

Edited by - Ayrik on 01 Jan 2012 01:28:29
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31690 Posts

Posted - 01 Jan 2012 :  02:47:01  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well, provided that Ed is at the helm of the reworking of the new Mystra [if that is indeed the course of the "The Sage of Shadowdale" books], then I suspect we'll see something entirely unique with regard to how it will all work.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)

"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood

Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage
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Dennis
Great Reader

9933 Posts

Posted - 01 Jan 2012 :  06:13:10  Show Profile Send Dennis a Private Message  Reply with Quote

Has Mystra ever assumed a male avatar?

Every beginning has an end.
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31690 Posts

Posted - 01 Jan 2012 :  06:41:01  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis


Has Mystra ever assumed a male avatar?

Given the lack of gender-prerequisites for a deity's avatar, I wouldn't completely declare it outside the realm of possibility. But unless Ed's deemed it in his home campaigns, it's never been something we've seen officially in the Realmslore.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)

"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood

Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage

Edited by - The Sage on 01 Jan 2012 06:43:10
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