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Azuth
Senior Scribe

USA
402 Posts

Posted - 15 Mar 2011 :  04:50:06  Show Profile  Visit Azuth's Homepage Send Azuth a Private Message  Reply with Quote  Delete Topic
Poll Question:

My dislike of 4E is known even to the undead blasted to dust. The changes to the Faerūnian Pantheon bother me more than most of the other changes to the Realms in the 4th Edition. I have put down the gods I miss most from the first-to-third edition. Please let us know whom you miss the most. (Note: the poll has been edited after the publication of The Herald as many gods are no longer dead. Either way, since people are still posting on here, I have reset the poll data. ~Azuth 06.30.2014)

Neither gone, nor forgotten:

Choices:

Bhaal
Vhaeraun
Mielikki
Myrkul
Tyr
Azuth
Eilistraee
Deneir
Leira
Other (Please Detail)

(Anonymous Vote)

Azuth, the First Magister
Lord of All Spells

The greatest expression of creativity is through Art.
Offense can never be given, only taken.

Edited by - Azuth on 30 Jun 2014 21:59:24

Brimstone
Great Reader

USA
2905 Posts

Posted - 15 Mar 2011 :  05:34:52  Show Profile Send Brimstone a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Mask! I hope Paul brings him back in some fashion in Cycle of Night...

"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
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thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader

USA
3338 Posts

Posted - 15 Mar 2011 :  05:46:59  Show Profile  Visit Dalor Darden's Homepage Send Dalor Darden a Private Message  Reply with Quote
While Mystra got killed in a weak manner, Azuth had it even worse.

Why the hell would he land in the Nine Hells?

Stupid...he was a God...and so shouldn't have fallen so easily to Asmodeus; I thought it was a crap way to do him in.

They should at least have let him die fighting or SOMETHING...not getting killed on another plane.

Seriously...the Nine Hells? Utter crap.

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Azuth
Senior Scribe

USA
402 Posts

Posted - 15 Mar 2011 :  05:59:27  Show Profile  Visit Azuth's Homepage Send Azuth a Private Message  Reply with Quote

Admittedly, as creator of this poll, I have trouble answering it. To say I have a bias for Azuth is an understatement, but the death of Mystra really screwed up the Realms. I also liked Deneir, and Mask was great fun to watch in the latter two books of the Avatar Series. Finally, making Lathander an aspect of any god (Amaunator) is just strange, given his participation in the Dawn Cataclysm...

One thing that gives me hope is the 3E canon text in Faiths and Pantheons pg 5 under "Dead Deities" which reads:
quote:
Moreover, death doesn't necessarily end the career of a deity of Toril. The possibility of resurrection always exists, as evidenced by the recent return of Bane.


So, I have hope...

Azuth, the First Magister
Lord of All Spells

The greatest expression of creativity is through Art.
Offense can never be given, only taken.

Edited by - Azuth on 15 Mar 2011 06:00:19
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Ayrik
Great Reader

Canada
6398 Posts

Posted - 15 Mar 2011 :  06:20:05  Show Profile Send Ayrik a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well, in all fairness, Azuth would've been a bit of a weakling without Mystra around. What power does a god of wizards have when magic is entirely unusable? Still, quite odd for a Lawful Neutral god (whose seat of divine power should reside in Dweomerheart, Mechanus, or the Realms) to suddenly invest himself entirely in another plane, particularly Baator of all possible places. Not odd at all for Asmodeus to opportunistically capitalize on Azuth's infernal blunder.

I'm of the opinion that you could hardly swing a halfling around in the Realms without bumping into somebody's god, so there was some need for a little pruning. Azuth was, IMO, an unfortunately redundant apparatus (also an obsolete one in 4E game mechanics). I agree with the 4E reason for simplifying the pantheon, though I disagree with many of the particular choices and most of the actual methods/explanations by which this was achieved. Azuth's death was a meaningless kick in the Grumbars, he deserved a far more fitting end than simply being a convenient vessel to pour excess divinity into Asmodeus.

[/Ayrik]

Edited by - Ayrik on 15 Mar 2011 06:22:25
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Azuth
Senior Scribe

USA
402 Posts

Posted - 15 Mar 2011 :  06:39:28  Show Profile  Visit Azuth's Homepage Send Azuth a Private Message  Reply with Quote

Faiths and Pantheons does list his home plane as Dweomerheart...What I still don't get is why Azmodeus didn't become the new God of Mages...or for that matter, why Azuth couldn't have become God of Magic (assuming Cyric didn't get that mantle.) As Ed has often hinted, gods can masquerade as other gods, so it is possible that Azuth was an aspect of Mystra (in theory) although his continued existence after Mystra's death at Helm's hand would imply otherwise. Where I get confused is how this breaks precedence so much from past "dead" deities where those who continue to worship a god continue to receive spells from another deity. I guess I'm most troubled, though, as to how the Goddess of Magic and the Weave both fall but priests of Gods and Goddesses who have relied upon the Weave to grant them divine spells suddenly continue to cast spells without any problem? No relearning...nothing like mages (at least according to the Abolethic Sovereignty series). *Shrug*

I'll agree with you that there were a lot of deities in 3E, Arik, but I viewed it as a well-stocked bar: I could always find a deity for the right purpose. What's really intriguing to me is to go back to the Old Gray Box (Cyclopedia of the Realms, Adventures and the 3E FR books and see how well they align. Gauntylgrym is mentioned in the Cyclopedia as are many other prominent events that would happen years later (IRL). It is worth noting that nothing of the Spellplague is even hinted in the books, which really drives home my belief that Ed really didn't want what has happened to happen.


Azuth, the First Magister
Lord of All Spells

The greatest expression of creativity is through Art.
Offense can never be given, only taken.
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Zireael
Master of Realmslore

Poland
1190 Posts

Posted - 15 Mar 2011 :  07:20:37  Show Profile  Visit Zireael's Homepage Send Zireael a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I voted Mystra, although Bhaal is a close second and Eilistraee third.

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Alisttair
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Canada
3054 Posts

Posted - 15 Mar 2011 :  10:47:00  Show Profile  Visit Alisttair's Homepage  Click to see Alisttair's MSN Messenger address Send Alisttair a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'll admit. I do miss Helm due to how he differs from Torm.

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Dennis
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9933 Posts

Posted - 15 Mar 2011 :  11:51:40  Show Profile Send Dennis a Private Message  Reply with Quote

I'm not fond of gods. To me, they're just mages whose spell expertise got translated into portfolios.

Every beginning has an end.
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The Red Walker
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3532 Posts

Posted - 15 Mar 2011 :  12:50:57  Show Profile  Send The Red Walker a Yahoo! Message Send The Red Walker a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden

While Mystra got killed in a weak manner, Azuth had it even worse.

Why the hell would he land in the Nine Hells?

Stupid...he was a God...and so shouldn't have fallen so easily to Asmodeus; I thought it was a crap way to do him in.They should at least have let him die fighting or SOMETHING...not getting killed on another plane.

Seriously...the Nine Hells? Utter crap.



Just a supposition, but maybe some Asmodeus lovers did not like what Mystra did in the hells along with the Simbul giving Asmodeus a spell smack down, wanted to do something to make it up to him?

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Dennis
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9933 Posts

Posted - 15 Mar 2011 :  13:08:06  Show Profile Send Dennis a Private Message  Reply with Quote

Maybe, Red. Besides, Azzy couldn't have Mystra, so he settled for the second best.

Every beginning has an end.
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Kilvan
Senior Scribe

Canada
894 Posts

Posted - 15 Mar 2011 :  13:32:07  Show Profile Send Kilvan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Helm's death is the one that doesn't make any sense to me, well, more than the others. It is/was one of my favorite god and probably the one I miss the most. The fact that I never cared about Torm doesn't help either.

As for Azuth being killed by Asmodeus, well, he didn't have his spells since Mystra just died (or his staff for that matter, as it was planted in Mystra's skull at the time). He could have been overrun with pit fiends, unable to flee to safety.


Oblivion loomed on every side, the offspring lived, basking in the realization that each moment could be the last moment.
--This was the beauty of chaos
--This was the beauty of Lolth
--This was the doom for all, but one

Quote from "Extinction"
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Dalor Darden
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USA
3338 Posts

Posted - 15 Mar 2011 :  18:45:47  Show Profile  Visit Dalor Darden's Homepage Send Dalor Darden a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Kilvan

Helm's death is the one that doesn't make any sense to me, well, more than the others. It is/was one of my favorite god and probably the one I miss the most. The fact that I never cared about Torm doesn't help either.

As for Azuth being killed by Asmodeus, well, he didn't have his spells since Mystra just died (or his staff for that matter, as it was planted in Mystra's skull at the time). He could have been overrun with pit fiends, unable to flee to safety.





But...he landed in the Nine Hells...why? That is my point. He should have went to some Lawful Neutral Plane.

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Tarrok of Halruaa
Seeker

United Kingdom
37 Posts

Posted - 15 Mar 2011 :  19:20:36  Show Profile Send Tarrok of Halruaa a Private Message  Reply with Quote
My vote was for other as you missed out MOANDER who would get my vote. Bring on the shambling mounds!
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Lily M Green
Learned Scribe

Australia
115 Posts

Posted - 15 Mar 2011 :  20:12:28  Show Profile  Visit Lily M Green's Homepage Send Lily M Green a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Kilvan

Helm's death is the one that doesn't make any sense to me, well, more than the others. It is/was one of my favorite god and probably the one I miss the most. The fact that I never cared about Torm doesn't help either.



Absolutely! It might have something to do with the fact that my introduction to FR is through the Baldur's Gate games (all flavours) and Helm / Helmites seem to feature prominently in them, but I do an admiration for the big guy and his followers, who strike me as the sort of folks you really want watching your back and by your side when the proverbial hits the fan.

Lathander with his Dawn Cataclysm gubbins, on the other hand, seems far too vain and self absorbed to be fully trusted not to do something remarkably stupid.

Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy, and taste good with ketchup.

A Dark Alliance - Beyond Baldur's Gate
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Richard Lee Byers
Forgotten Realms Author

USA
1770 Posts

Posted - 15 Mar 2011 :  20:54:10  Show Profile  Visit Richard Lee Byers's Homepage  Reply with Quote
No love for Lathander? Ah, well...
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Hawkins
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USA
2130 Posts

Posted - 15 Mar 2011 :  20:56:29  Show Profile  Visit Hawkins's Homepage Send Hawkins a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I voted for Mask, but Deneir is a close second for me. Eilistraee is also pretty high on my list.

Edited by - Hawkins on 15 Mar 2011 20:57:12
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Thelonius
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Spain
726 Posts

Posted - 15 Mar 2011 :  21:38:50  Show Profile  Click to see Thelonius's MSN Messenger address Send Thelonius a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I think I'll go for Savras here, though his power had diminished a lot, I loved his portfoloio, and also the fact he was the god worshipped by the greatest seer ever

"If you are to truly understand, then you will need the contrast, not adherence to a single ideal." - Kreia
"I THINK I JUST HAD ANOTHER NEAR-RINCEWIND EXPERIENCE"- Discworld's Death frustrated after Rincewind scapes his grasp... again.
"I am death, come for thee" - Nimbul, from Baldur's Gate I just before being badly spanked
Sapientia sola libertas est
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
30288 Posts

Posted - 15 Mar 2011 :  22:37:39  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lee Byers

No love for Lathander? Ah, well...



He would be my second choice.

I picked Mystra partially because I like her, but more because I dislike the reasoning behind her demise.

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Ayrik
Great Reader

Canada
6398 Posts

Posted - 15 Mar 2011 :  23:06:57  Show Profile Send Ayrik a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Lathander is too goody-two-shoes for my taste. I miss Gruumsh.

[/Ayrik]
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Azuth
Senior Scribe

USA
402 Posts

Posted - 15 Mar 2011 :  23:28:27  Show Profile  Visit Azuth's Homepage Send Azuth a Private Message  Reply with Quote

Didn't miss him - I was limited on the number of "options" that I could put in the poll.


quote:
Originally posted by Tarrok of Halruaa

My vote was for other as you missed out MOANDER who would get my vote. Bring on the shambling mounds!


Azuth, the First Magister
Lord of All Spells

The greatest expression of creativity is through Art.
Offense can never be given, only taken.
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31690 Posts

Posted - 16 Mar 2011 :  00:37:11  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lee Byers

No love for Lathander? Ah, well...

I still have Lathander in my campaigns, along with Amaunator... but that's a story for another time.

...

My vote is tied between Mystra/Deneir.

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GMWestermeyer
Learned Scribe

USA
215 Posts

Posted - 16 Mar 2011 :  03:19:36  Show Profile  Visit GMWestermeyer's Homepage Send GMWestermeyer a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I don't play 4e Realms, so I'm not certain my vote should count. My games are in 1368/9 and these dieties are all thus mostly still present.

But, if I were playing post-Spellplague I'd guess Tyr, because I think a God of Justice is central to most pantheons.

"Facts are meaningless. You can use facts to prove anything that is even remotely true."
Homer Simpson, _The Simspons_

Edited by - GMWestermeyer on 20 Mar 2011 21:13:15
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jornan
Learned Scribe

Canada
256 Posts

Posted - 16 Mar 2011 :  03:24:26  Show Profile  Click to see jornan's MSN Messenger address Send jornan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Mask will be back in some form. Paul Kemp has sown the seeds for it.

Mystra will be back in some form. Ed has also sown the seeds for it. She has been dead before.

Many of the other dieties protfolios have merely been subsumed into another Gods. That is fine by me and is nothing new to the realms. Infact I have always quite enjoyed the plottings of the Gods.
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Azuth
Senior Scribe

USA
402 Posts

Posted - 16 Mar 2011 :  05:47:53  Show Profile  Visit Azuth's Homepage Send Azuth a Private Message  Reply with Quote

I enjoy the intrigue (pardon the saying) that Mask, Mystra, et al brought to the Realms, although I know Ed wanted more focus on the dogma and daily rituals of each deity's worshippers. I can only hope you're right, jornan. Scribe, let me know the day and time and I'll cozy up to the fire and listen. Lathander is such a great multipurpose deity that his absence is felt when trying to balance some of the remaining deities. I just don't think that Amaunator is a cookie-cutter replacement for Lathander.

On an unrelated note: I'd be interested in a poll on which "modules" (prepackaged adventures) people most enjoyed. I remember loving Desert of Desolation around Raurin...both as a player and a DM. Unfortunately, my collection and knowledge of the various adventures doesn't make me the best choice for assembling a poll. It was interesting to me because it had the Mulhorandi pantheon as a feature as well as some great battles.


Azuth, the First Magister
Lord of All Spells

The greatest expression of creativity is through Art.
Offense can never be given, only taken.
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Zimme
Learned Scribe

Denmark
209 Posts

Posted - 16 Mar 2011 :  07:56:08  Show Profile  Click to see Zimme's MSN Messenger address Send Zimme a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by jornan

Mask will be back in some form. Paul Kemp has sown the seeds for it.

Mystra will be back in some form. Ed has also sown the seeds for it. She has been dead before.

Many of the other dieties protfolios have merely been subsumed into another Gods. That is fine by me and is nothing new to the realms. Infact I have always quite enjoyed the plottings of the Gods.



Mask..whhyyyyy!! ..whyyyy!!! ... he's coming back!! yes!! What would my collection of rogues be without good ol' Mask!

Sometimes I feel like Beshaba is sitting on my back, devoting her entire attention to me!

Rannek.

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