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Azuth
Senior Scribe
USA
404 Posts |
 Posted - 15 Mar 2011 : 04:50:06
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Poll Question:
My dislike of 4E is known even to the undead blasted to dust. The changes to the Faerūnian Pantheon bother me more than most of the other changes to the Realms in the 4th Edition. I have put down the gods I miss most from the first-to-third edition. Please let us know whom you miss the most. (Note: the poll has been edited after the publication of The Herald as many gods are no longer dead. Either way, since people are still posting on here, I have reset the poll data. ~Azuth 06.30.2014)
Neither gone, nor forgotten:
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Azuth, the First Magister
Lord of All Spells
The greatest expression of creativity is through Art.
Offense can never be given, only taken. |
Edited by - Azuth on 30 Jun 2014 21:59:24
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3286 Posts |
Posted - 15 Mar 2011 : 05:34:52
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| Mask! I hope Paul brings him back in some fashion in Cycle of Night... |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 15 Mar 2011 : 05:46:59
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While Mystra got killed in a weak manner, Azuth had it even worse.
Why the hell would he land in the Nine Hells?
Stupid...he was a God...and so shouldn't have fallen so easily to Asmodeus; I thought it was a crap way to do him in.
They should at least have let him die fighting or SOMETHING...not getting killed on another plane.
Seriously...the Nine Hells? Utter crap. |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Azuth
Senior Scribe
USA
404 Posts |
Posted - 15 Mar 2011 : 05:59:27
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Admittedly, as creator of this poll, I have trouble answering it. To say I have a bias for Azuth is an understatement, but the death of Mystra really screwed up the Realms. I also liked Deneir, and Mask was great fun to watch in the latter two books of the Avatar Series. Finally, making Lathander an aspect of any god (Amaunator) is just strange, given his participation in the Dawn Cataclysm...
One thing that gives me hope is the 3E canon text in Faiths and Pantheons pg 5 under "Dead Deities" which reads:quote:
Moreover, death doesn't necessarily end the career of a deity of Toril. The possibility of resurrection always exists, as evidenced by the recent return of Bane.
So, I have hope...
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Azuth, the First Magister
Lord of All Spells
The greatest expression of creativity is through Art.
Offense can never be given, only taken. |
Edited by - Azuth on 15 Mar 2011 06:00:19 |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7969 Posts |
Posted - 15 Mar 2011 : 06:20:05
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Well, in all fairness, Azuth would've been a bit of a weakling without Mystra around. What power does a god of wizards have when magic is entirely unusable? Still, quite odd for a Lawful Neutral god (whose seat of divine power should reside in Dweomerheart, Mechanus, or the Realms) to suddenly invest himself entirely in another plane, particularly Baator of all possible places. Not odd at all for Asmodeus to opportunistically capitalize on Azuth's infernal blunder.
I'm of the opinion that you could hardly swing a halfling around in the Realms without bumping into somebody's god, so there was some need for a little pruning. Azuth was, IMO, an unfortunately redundant apparatus (also an obsolete one in 4E game mechanics). I agree with the 4E reason for simplifying the pantheon, though I disagree with many of the particular choices and most of the actual methods/explanations by which this was achieved. Azuth's death was a meaningless kick in the Grumbars, he deserved a far more fitting end than simply being a convenient vessel to pour excess divinity into Asmodeus. |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 15 Mar 2011 06:22:25 |
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Azuth
Senior Scribe
USA
404 Posts |
Posted - 15 Mar 2011 : 06:39:28
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Faiths and Pantheons does list his home plane as Dweomerheart...What I still don't get is why Azmodeus didn't become the new God of Mages...or for that matter, why Azuth couldn't have become God of Magic (assuming Cyric didn't get that mantle.) As Ed has often hinted, gods can masquerade as other gods, so it is possible that Azuth was an aspect of Mystra (in theory) although his continued existence after Mystra's death at Helm's hand would imply otherwise. Where I get confused is how this breaks precedence so much from past "dead" deities where those who continue to worship a god continue to receive spells from another deity. I guess I'm most troubled, though, as to how the Goddess of Magic and the Weave both fall but priests of Gods and Goddesses who have relied upon the Weave to grant them divine spells suddenly continue to cast spells without any problem? No relearning...nothing like mages (at least according to the Abolethic Sovereignty series). *Shrug*
I'll agree with you that there were a lot of deities in 3E, Arik, but I viewed it as a well-stocked bar: I could always find a deity for the right purpose. What's really intriguing to me is to go back to the Old Gray Box (Cyclopedia of the Realms, Adventures and the 3E FR books and see how well they align. Gauntylgrym is mentioned in the Cyclopedia as are many other prominent events that would happen years later (IRL). It is worth noting that nothing of the Spellplague is even hinted in the books, which really drives home my belief that Ed really didn't want what has happened to happen.
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Azuth, the First Magister
Lord of All Spells
The greatest expression of creativity is through Art.
Offense can never be given, only taken. |
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Zireael
Master of Realmslore
Poland
1190 Posts |
Posted - 15 Mar 2011 : 07:20:37
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| I voted Mystra, although Bhaal is a close second and Eilistraee third. |
SiNafay Vrinn, the daughter of Lloth, from Ched Nasad!
http://zireael07.wordpress.com/ |
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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 15 Mar 2011 : 10:47:00
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| I'll admit. I do miss Helm due to how he differs from Torm. |
Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 15 Mar 2011 : 11:51:40
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I'm not fond of gods. To me, they're just mages whose spell expertise got translated into portfolios. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3563 Posts |
Posted - 15 Mar 2011 : 12:50:57
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quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden
While Mystra got killed in a weak manner, Azuth had it even worse.
Why the hell would he land in the Nine Hells?
Stupid...he was a God...and so shouldn't have fallen so easily to Asmodeus; I thought it was a crap way to do him in.They should at least have let him die fighting or SOMETHING...not getting killed on another plane.
Seriously...the Nine Hells? Utter crap.
Just a supposition, but maybe some Asmodeus lovers did not like what Mystra did in the hells along with the Simbul giving Asmodeus a spell smack down, wanted to do something to make it up to him?   |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 15 Mar 2011 : 13:08:06
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Maybe, Red. Besides, Azzy couldn't have Mystra, so he settled for the second best. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Kilvan
Senior Scribe
Canada
894 Posts |
Posted - 15 Mar 2011 : 13:32:07
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Helm's death is the one that doesn't make any sense to me, well, more than the others. It is/was one of my favorite god and probably the one I miss the most. The fact that I never cared about Torm doesn't help either.
As for Azuth being killed by Asmodeus, well, he didn't have his spells since Mystra just died (or his staff for that matter, as it was planted in Mystra's skull at the time). He could have been overrun with pit fiends, unable to flee to safety.
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 15 Mar 2011 : 18:45:47
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quote:
Originally posted by Kilvan
Helm's death is the one that doesn't make any sense to me, well, more than the others. It is/was one of my favorite god and probably the one I miss the most. The fact that I never cared about Torm doesn't help either.
As for Azuth being killed by Asmodeus, well, he didn't have his spells since Mystra just died (or his staff for that matter, as it was planted in Mystra's skull at the time). He could have been overrun with pit fiends, unable to flee to safety.
But...he landed in the Nine Hells...why? That is my point. He should have went to some Lawful Neutral Plane. |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Tarrok of Halruaa
Acolyte
United Kingdom
37 Posts |
Posted - 15 Mar 2011 : 19:20:36
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| My vote was for other as you missed out MOANDER who would get my vote. Bring on the shambling mounds! |
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Lily M Green
Learned Scribe
Australia
115 Posts |
Posted - 15 Mar 2011 : 20:12:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Kilvan
Helm's death is the one that doesn't make any sense to me, well, more than the others. It is/was one of my favorite god and probably the one I miss the most. The fact that I never cared about Torm doesn't help either.
Absolutely! It might have something to do with the fact that my introduction to FR is through the Baldur's Gate games (all flavours) and Helm / Helmites seem to feature prominently in them, but I do an admiration for the big guy and his followers, who strike me as the sort of folks you really want watching your back and by your side when the proverbial hits the fan.
Lathander with his Dawn Cataclysm gubbins, on the other hand, seems far too vain and self absorbed to be fully trusted not to do something remarkably stupid. |
Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy, and taste good with ketchup.
A Dark Alliance - Beyond Baldur's Gate |
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Richard Lee Byers
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
1814 Posts |
Posted - 15 Mar 2011 : 20:54:10
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| No love for Lathander? Ah, well... |
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Hawkins
Great Reader
USA
2131 Posts |
Posted - 15 Mar 2011 : 20:56:29
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| I voted for Mask, but Deneir is a close second for me. Eilistraee is also pretty high on my list. |
Edited by - Hawkins on 15 Mar 2011 20:57:12 |
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Thelonius
Senior Scribe
Spain
730 Posts |
Posted - 15 Mar 2011 : 21:38:50
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| I think I'll go for Savras here, though his power had diminished a lot, I loved his portfoloio, and also the fact he was the god worshipped by the greatest seer ever |
"If you are to truly understand, then you will need the contrast, not adherence to a single ideal." - Kreia
"I THINK I JUST HAD ANOTHER NEAR-RINCEWIND EXPERIENCE"- Discworld's Death frustrated after Rincewind scapes his grasp... again.
"I am death, come for thee" - Nimbul, from Baldur's Gate I just before being badly spanked
Sapientia sola libertas est |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 15 Mar 2011 : 22:37:39
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quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lee Byers
No love for Lathander? Ah, well...
He would be my second choice.
I picked Mystra partially because I like her, but more because I dislike the reasoning behind her demise. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7969 Posts |
Posted - 15 Mar 2011 : 23:06:57
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| Lathander is too goody-two-shoes for my taste. I miss Gruumsh. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Azuth
Senior Scribe
USA
404 Posts |
Posted - 15 Mar 2011 : 23:28:27
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Didn't miss him - I was limited on the number of "options" that I could put in the poll.
quote:
Originally posted by Tarrok of Halruaa
My vote was for other as you missed out MOANDER who would get my vote. Bring on the shambling mounds!
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Azuth, the First Magister
Lord of All Spells
The greatest expression of creativity is through Art.
Offense can never be given, only taken. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 16 Mar 2011 : 00:37:11
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quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lee Byers
No love for Lathander? Ah, well...
I still have Lathander in my campaigns, along with Amaunator... but that's a story for another time. 
...
My vote is tied between Mystra/Deneir.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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GMWestermeyer
Learned Scribe
USA
215 Posts |
Posted - 16 Mar 2011 : 03:19:36
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I don't play 4e Realms, so I'm not certain my vote should count. My games are in 1368/9 and these dieties are all thus mostly still present.
But, if I were playing post-Spellplague I'd guess Tyr, because I think a God of Justice is central to most pantheons. |
"Facts are meaningless. You can use facts to prove anything that is even remotely true."
Homer Simpson, _The Simspons_ |
Edited by - GMWestermeyer on 20 Mar 2011 21:13:15 |
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jornan
Learned Scribe
Canada
256 Posts |
Posted - 16 Mar 2011 : 03:24:26
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Mask will be back in some form. Paul Kemp has sown the seeds for it.
Mystra will be back in some form. Ed has also sown the seeds for it. She has been dead before.
Many of the other dieties protfolios have merely been subsumed into another Gods. That is fine by me and is nothing new to the realms. Infact I have always quite enjoyed the plottings of the Gods. |
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Azuth
Senior Scribe
USA
404 Posts |
Posted - 16 Mar 2011 : 05:47:53
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I enjoy the intrigue (pardon the saying) that Mask, Mystra, et al brought to the Realms, although I know Ed wanted more focus on the dogma and daily rituals of each deity's worshippers. I can only hope you're right, jornan. Scribe, let me know the day and time and I'll cozy up to the fire and listen. Lathander is such a great multipurpose deity that his absence is felt when trying to balance some of the remaining deities. I just don't think that Amaunator is a cookie-cutter replacement for Lathander.
On an unrelated note: I'd be interested in a poll on which "modules" (prepackaged adventures) people most enjoyed. I remember loving Desert of Desolation around Raurin...both as a player and a DM. Unfortunately, my collection and knowledge of the various adventures doesn't make me the best choice for assembling a poll. It was interesting to me because it had the Mulhorandi pantheon as a feature as well as some great battles.
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Azuth, the First Magister
Lord of All Spells
The greatest expression of creativity is through Art.
Offense can never be given, only taken. |
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Zimme
Learned Scribe
Denmark
209 Posts |
Posted - 16 Mar 2011 : 07:56:08
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quote:
Originally posted by jornan
Mask will be back in some form. Paul Kemp has sown the seeds for it.
Mystra will be back in some form. Ed has also sown the seeds for it. She has been dead before.
Many of the other dieties protfolios have merely been subsumed into another Gods. That is fine by me and is nothing new to the realms. Infact I have always quite enjoyed the plottings of the Gods.
Mask..whhyyyyy!! ..whyyyy!!! ... he's coming back!! yes!! What would my collection of rogues be without good ol' Mask! |
Sometimes I feel like Beshaba is sitting on my back, devoting her entire attention to me!
Rannek.
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Azuth
Senior Scribe
USA
404 Posts |
Posted - 16 Mar 2011 : 08:03:14
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To think: I didn't even vote for myself!
I'll rue the day...
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Azuth, the First Magister
Lord of All Spells
The greatest expression of creativity is through Art.
Offense can never be given, only taken. |
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Fellfire
Master of Realmslore
1965 Posts |
Posted - 16 Mar 2011 : 12:46:50
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| I just thought I'd chime in to say that I love the fact that Moander is "dead." Of course I have known of him for a long time, but he has just recently come onto my radar as something I can use. I love the fact that he is still lurking at the edges like an infestation of mold, very difficult to eradicate completely. So many possibilities... |
Misanthorpe
Love is a lie. Only hate endures. Light is blinding. Only in darkness do we see clearly.
"Oh, you think darkness is your ally? You merely adopted the dark. I was born in it, molded by it. I didn't see the light until I was already a man, by then it was nothing to me but.. blinding. The shadows betray you because they belong to me." - Bane The Dark Knight Rises
Green Dragonscale Dice Bag by Crystalsidyll - check it out
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GRYPHON
Senior Scribe
USA
527 Posts |
Posted - 16 Mar 2011 : 13:06:46
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| Bhaal... |
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GRYPHON
Senior Scribe
USA
527 Posts |
Posted - 16 Mar 2011 : 13:08:34
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| Myrkul was quite interesting, as well... |
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ajfurst
Acolyte
Australia
21 Posts |
Posted - 16 Mar 2011 : 13:14:58
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Mystra from the list. And by Mystra I mean Mystra, not Midnight. I'd love to see Mystra return. Her and Bane facing off is much better then Midnight and Cyric ever was.
I haven't a WOTC subscription so I don't know if he's dead or where he's gone, but I want Finder in 4E. Heck demote him to a 'mere' demi-god servant of Tymora if need be, but he was more interesting then most of the gods left intact. |
Edited by - ajfurst on 16 Mar 2011 13:15:47 |
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Topic |
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Most missed "Dead" Deity
