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Barastir
Master of Realmslore
Brazil
1600 Posts |
 Posted - 09 Mar 2011 : 19:32:48
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Great, Gray!
I think the most appropriate High magic ritual would be the Saloh'Cint'Nias / Gift of Alliance. The 2e sourcebook Cormanthyr - Empire of the Elves states that "This ritual allows a High Mage to call upon the ancient allies of the Tel'Quessir for aid in the defense of an elven realm. The summoned aid is often in animal or monstrous form, though the creatures tend to match both the surrounding area and the caster's alignment."
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"Goodness is not a natural state, but must be
fought for to be attained and maintained.
Lead by example.
Let your deeds speak your intentions.
Goodness radiated from the heart."
The Paladin's Virtues, excerpt from the "Quentin's Monograph"
(by Ed Greenwood) |
Edited by - Barastir on 09 Mar 2011 20:14:45 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 09 Mar 2011 : 21:34:39
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I found Barkburrs in the 1e MM2, which seem to have a similar dynamic; they are capable of 'tree-afying' (called 'lignification') sentient creatures and turning them in treants and other woodland creatures.
Just thought you might want to keep that in-mind for a final draft - seems related.
quote:
Originally posted by Gray Richardson
Which one? Did you mean Asgorath, the mother of all dragons? Or Selūne, the mother of Chauntea weeping tears at her daughter Chauntea's mortal injury? I think I worded it right, but sorry if it was unclear.
Isn't Chauntea Selune's mother?
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Are you including rubber trees as well, Gray?
Weren't rubber trees first planted by the Trojans?
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"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 09 Mar 2011 : 23:19:05
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I found Barkburrs in the 1e MM2, which seem to have a similar dynamic; they are capable of 'tree-afying' (called 'lignification') sentient creatures and turning them in treants and other woodland creatures.
Just thought you might want to keep that in-mind for a final draft - seems related.
quote:
Originally posted by Gray Richardson
Which one? Did you mean Asgorath, the mother of all dragons? Or Selūne, the mother of Chauntea weeping tears at her daughter Chauntea's mortal injury? I think I worded it right, but sorry if it was unclear.
Isn't Chauntea Selune's mother?
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Are you including rubber trees as well, Gray?
Weren't rubber trees first planted by the Trojans?
Chauntea is the daughter of Shar and Selūne. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 10 Mar 2011 : 00:33:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I found Barkburrs in the 1e MM2, which seem to have a similar dynamic; they are capable of 'tree-afying' (called 'lignification') sentient creatures and turning them in treants and other woodland creatures.
Oooh! I knew I'd forgotten something cool.
And I know I've got notes somewhere in my files that make a connection between the origins of certain dryads, and the barkburrs. |
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Gray Richardson
Master of Realmslore
USA
1291 Posts |
Posted - 10 Mar 2011 : 03:39:01
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| I'd like to work Verenestra, the dryad goddess, into the mix somehow. Not sure how the dryads relate to the treants, but I need to cogitate on it some more. |
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Fellfire
Master of Realmslore
1965 Posts |
Posted - 10 Mar 2011 : 03:57:08
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| And if dryads and treants do have a connection, where do Satyrs [ahem] fit in? Pretty little tree-children and randy goat-boys? They're not even in the same kingdom, yet supposedly the male and female of the species (if that's even the correct term.) |
Misanthorpe
Love is a lie. Only hate endures. Light is blinding. Only in darkness do we see clearly.
"Oh, you think darkness is your ally? You merely adopted the dark. I was born in it, molded by it. I didn't see the light until I was already a man, by then it was nothing to me but.. blinding. The shadows betray you because they belong to me." - Bane The Dark Knight Rises
Green Dragonscale Dice Bag by Crystalsidyll - check it out
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Edited by - Fellfire on 10 Mar 2011 04:51:04 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 10 Mar 2011 : 04:45:48
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quote:
Originally posted by Gray Richardson
I'd like to work Verenestra, the dryad goddess, into the mix somehow. Not sure how the dryads relate to the treants, but I need to cogitate on it some more.
An angle I've wanted to play up is the legend surrounding the animated spirits of great old oaks becoming dryads.
Maybe, instead, when a treant begins to reproduce, the spiritual energy that would come to be born in the off-shoot, instead wanders away from the protection of the female -- perhaps carried upon the wind -- and becomes a wilder, more exotic spirit. Without the guidance of its parents, the spiritual off-shoot gradually adapts to life on its own, taking temporary root in a grove or divine natural preserve, whereupon chance contact with demihuman forms, like wild elves, results in the spirit evolving into a proto-dryad. Eventually, the proto-dryad will outgrow the confines of the grove itself, and seek to wander [and protect] the entire surrounding forest.
I suppose this might emphasis a particular "rarity" when it comes to the birth of dryads, but... it's something to think about. |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Gray Richardson
Master of Realmslore
USA
1291 Posts |
Posted - 10 Mar 2011 : 04:59:47
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So, in my Aearee article in the Candlekeep Compendium Volume VII, I wrote the following paragraphs below involving an arakhor named Mornungongbarae. As a preface, I should mention that during the Long Night of the Sevenfold Winter, emboldened by the cold, the uldra sprites from the colder, frozen parts of Faerūn encroached into the High Forest seeking to expand their territory. The Aearee-Syran efforts to warm the North (with giant crystal towers, similar to the bukhara spires that they learned to build from the Batrachi) brought them into conflict with the uldra, and war broke out. This is what I wrote below:
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In the north, the Aearee-Syran came into conflict with the Winter Queen of the Uldra fey over their efforts to warm the land. Frost giants from the Kingdom of Ottar joined with the Uldra, and a great war erupted throughout the High Forest as tribes of sprites and other fey folk were drawn into the conflagration on both sides. The battles raged for many years, but, in the end, the Armies of Ice were driven back to the Spine of the World, defeated as much by the returning sun as the tactics of the Aearee forces.
Skilled and gracious priests of Syranita from the aerie of Phwiukree negotiated a treaty with the OverKing of the High Forest sprites. Together they planted an arakhor sapling, Mornungongbarae, a celestial tree-spirit of divine lineage said to be descended from Emmantiensien himself. In the shadow of the Star Mounts, deep within the Unicorn Run, the little sapling grew to tower above the High Forest, guarding the pledge of friendship between the two races, a peace that would last nearly a thousand years.
The article goes on to cover a lot of intervening history, culminating with the rise of the Aeng-Shara rookery, a powerful, fortified, floating city of the Aearee-Quor, that swept northward conquering other Aearee enclaves and aeries in the name of Pazrael.
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The shadow of Aeng-Shara fell upon the High Forest as the Sharan juggernaut floated relentlessly northward to engage the Aearee-Syran at Phwiukree. Honoring ancient treaties, the sprites came to aid their avian allies against the aggressors. But Sieskas arcanists slaughtered the fey with fireballs, thunderbolts, and necromantic miasmas that drew the lifeforce from their tiny frames.
In the initial volleys of the assault on Phwiukree, the peerless arcanists of Aeng-Shara easily broke through the spell mantles that protected the aerie. Magical energies coursed down upon the mountain peaks, shattering the crystal spires of the Aearee-Syran.
Down below, the arakhor Mornungongbarae, who had guarded the High Forest for nearly a thousand years, drew strength and nourishment from the soil of Chauntea for the unimaginable feat he was about to undertake. Mystical roots tapped the Weave itself for raw magical power. Pulling it into himself, he powered a miraculous transformation. Silverfire coursed through his xylem and phloem.
Expanding his tissues, he multiplied himself in size, growing in scant instants a thousand wing-spans into the sky. Towering over the forest, the largest being ever to grace the face of Toril, his massive roots buckling the earth below as he tried to steady himself, Mornungongbarae poised to strike against Sieskas terrible city.
His timbers cracked and splintered as he struggled to maintain the magic that sustained him. Like a flower bending to face the sun, Mornungongbarae now leaned toward the Sharan rookery. All the branches of his fantastic frame entwined themselves around Sieskas citadel, canting it at a violent angle. Many hundreds of invaders fell from the walls as Mornungongbarae cemented his hold.
Then, as magic failed him, the timber of his immense trunk shattered with a clap of thunder. The elder tree fell, crashing down upon the slopes of the Star Mounts, his great weight wrenching Aeng-Shara from its lofty heights. His tragic sacrifice is still sung by treant skalds today, in a saga called The Lament of Mornungongbarae.
The rookery smashed into the mountain face, disintegrating into a cloud of debris. The mythallar cracked open and evaporated in a gout of mystic flame. The Sharan tyrant was dead.
The aerie of Phwiukree was demolished, but the war with Shara was ended. The eastern aeries of the Aearee-Syran survived, enduring an uneasy détente with the Sharan empire to the south.
In light of the Emmantiensien lore, I'm now thinking that Emmantiensien dropped one of his arakhor acorns in the High Forest at some point when he passed through during the Long Night. The acorn must have been recovered by the Aearee, or the sprites, before it had a chance to germinate.
Sometime after the sun returned and peace was finally established between the Aearee and the fey -- some several years after the Sevenfold Winter ended -- the Aearee-Syran and the sprites planted the acorn together.
Initially I was thinking that arakhora were always trees, remaining rooted their entire lives. But now I am thinking that Mornungongbarae spent a number of years, decades, or possibly even centuries in treant form roving the High Forest before he settled down and took root in the Unicorn Run. Though he was well established in his tree form by the time that Aeng-Shara attacked, almost a thousand years later.
The high magic he used to grow so high is reminiscent of the myth of his father, Emmantiensien. In fact, in his hour of need, I can imagine Mornungongbarae crying out to his father, with a great rumble that reverberated like low thunder off the side of the Star Mounts, carrying across the canopy of the High Forest for leagues, and leagues, and leagues: "Father! Aid me!" And in an echo of Emmantiensien's myth, the mystic energies that infused Mornungongbarae caused him to grow tall as well, a mythopoeic recapitulation of his father's epic deeds.
I should note that the giant crystal spires that had warmed the High Forest during the Long Night were shattered by the fall of Aeng-Shara, where their shards lay in ruin to this day. See The Savage Frontier p.50-51 and The North pp.7, 51, 57 for references to the ruined towers.
Parts of that Candlekeep Compendium article were canonized by Brian James in the Grand History of the Realms p.8, an honor for which I will be eternally grateful to him. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 10 Mar 2011 : 06:39:29
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Interesting.
I had something similar in-mind when I was writing my eastern lore for K-T and the hordelands history. I used pyramids instead, built by the Maraloi (ancient Fey), which held back the cold in their ancestral lands for centuries (until the creation of the Mountain of Iron, which 'shorted-out' the fey magic and allowed the cold to finally envelop the northern reaches).
I was only going with pyramids because there a bunch of ancient ones mentioned already in canon lore that aren't connected to anything. Perhaps unearthly crystalline spires would work even better....
So Chauntea is Selūne's daughter? Since when? Why did I always think it was the other way-around? |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 10 Mar 2011 : 11:49:09
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
So Chauntea is Selūne's daughter? Since when? Why did I always think it was the other way-around?
Since 2E. Page 141 of Faiths & Avatars:
quote:
Eventually this primordial essence coalesced into twin beautiful goddesses who were yin and yang to each other; they were so close they thought of themselves as one being. The Two-Faced Goddess created the heavenly bodies of the crystal sphere and together infused them with life to form the Earthmother, Chauntea. (Although Chauntea has since contracted her essence to encompass only Abeir-Toril, in the beginning she embodied all matter in Realmspace.) This new universe was lit by the face of the silver-haired goddess, who called herself Selūne, and darkened by the welcoming tresses of the raven-haired goddess, Shar, but no heat or fire existed within it.
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Barastir
Master of Realmslore
Brazil
1600 Posts |
Posted - 10 Mar 2011 : 12:24:45
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quote:
Originally posted by Gray Richardson
I'd like to work Verenestra, the dryad goddess, into the mix somehow. Not sure how the dryads relate to the treants, but I need to cogitate on it some more.
I remember reading somewhere that Verenestra had an affair with Rillifane Rallathil. |
"Goodness is not a natural state, but must be
fought for to be attained and maintained.
Lead by example.
Let your deeds speak your intentions.
Goodness radiated from the heart."
The Paladin's Virtues, excerpt from the "Quentin's Monograph"
(by Ed Greenwood) |
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Gray Richardson
Master of Realmslore
USA
1291 Posts |
Posted - 10 Mar 2011 : 14:37:54
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More than ever, I suspect Rilifane to be an aspect or fragment of Emmantiensien. Or maybe a separate aspect/fragment of the World Tree, of which Emmantiensien also is.
Come to think of it, Emmantiensien could be the Torilian incarnation of the World Tree, while Rilifane could be the Feywild aspect. At some point, when elves migrated to Toril from Faerie, they brought the worship of Rilifane to Toril with them. So now you have two different conceptions of the same god/entity.
Who knows, Silvanus may be yet a third conception of the same god. The human conception.
In fact, I am now beginning to think that Celts (or Gauls) migrated to the Realms in ages past and brought their pantheon with them, including Oghma and Silvanus. However, while Oghma has thrived, Silvanus was absorbed/merged into the human conception of Emmantiensien/Rilifane/The World Tree. Silvanus may be a native Torilian deity bearing only the name of an interloper, human god.
Although, it's possible that in merging with the human god, he absorbed some of the personality and other traits of the interloper Silvanus.
Silvanus may perhaps be more of a fragment than an aspect of the World Tree. Sort of an alternate personality of the World Tree that has split off and become an independent entity. To that extent, Silvanus and Rilifane might be truly separate beings. Or maybe not, maybe they are just split personalities of the same god. Although, these things can be fuzzy, so to what extent any of that is true cannot be known. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 11 Mar 2011 : 00:24:09
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They may both be aspects of Emmantiensien. I have been espousing my theories about how the deities we know (the regular D&D/Fanasy gods) are merely aspects of greater powers, in the same manner that Chosen represent the powers above them (and that a Chosen/Exarch is little more then a self-willed Avatar - a bit of divine power placed within another vessel).
So, going with that take, Sylanus and Rilifane are merely two aspects of the primordial power Emmantiensien - the human and elven aspects. It means that while they are separate entities, they are also at the same time part of something greater. In the same way that my thumb and pinky are separate fingers of my hand, and my hands are two appendages that are part of me (the greater whole). No-one would ever say my pinky and thumb were the same finger, and yet, they go together with the hand (which, in this analogy, would be Emmantiensien).
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
So Chauntea is Selūne's daughter? Since when? Why did I always think it was the other way-around?
Since 2E. Page 141 of Faiths & Avatars:
quote:
Eventually this primordial essence coalesced into twin beautiful goddesses who were yin and yang to each other; they were so close they thought of themselves as one being. The Two-Faced Goddess created the heavenly bodies of the crystal sphere and together infused them with life to form the Earthmother, Chauntea. (Although Chauntea has since contracted her essence to encompass only Abeir-Toril, in the beginning she embodied all matter in Realmspace.) This new universe was lit by the face of the silver-haired goddess, who called herself Selūne, and darkened by the welcoming tresses of the raven-haired goddess, Shar, but no heat or fire existed within it.
Yeah, I re-read that after my post.
I'm trying to figure-out WHY I ever thought Selūne and Shar were daughters of Chauntea. I thought my (false) knowledge was based on that paragraph, but unless I read it wrong (EACH time I read it), then I can't understand how I kept making this very fundamental mistake. It may have been the 'Earthmother thing, but still... I can't believe I have always gotten this backwards... |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 11 Mar 2011 00:26:08 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 11 Mar 2011 : 00:34:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I'm trying to figure-out WHY I ever thought Selūne and Shar were daughters of Chauntea.
Maybe you were thinking of Earth's own relationship with the Moon, and how certain creation theories -- like the giant-impact hypothesis -- suggest that the Earth-Moon system was the result of an massive impact with the proto-Earth. Thus, the Earth "giving birth" to the Moon? |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 11 Mar 2011 : 19:36:48
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There is still some leeway there - it doesn't precisely say the two goddesses created Chauntea.
What could have happened (in theory) is something akin to someone simply stirring the primordial pool, and out crawled life. They could have been catalysts, rather then creators. A bit of a stretch, granted, but feasible.
I can fix this with the second part of that (that Chauntea was once part of 'something greater'), but I don't know if I care to. At this point, I find my proto-cosmology moving further and further from FR canon, so it may not be appropriate for me to share my ideas any further on this forum. 
I was researching other (canon) creation-sources, and got some good bits from the 2e Draconimicon, but still no idea why I felt Chauntea was the 'mother goddess' figure in the FR mythos. I need a 'divine feminine' to make everything (in my version) work, and using Selūne/Hecate would be going WAY back to some of my earliest conjecturing (pre-FR, back when I ran GH).
I suppose I could use some of the info regarding Lilith/Eve from the other thread, if I equate Ao with 'Adam' (which could work - religions are just based upon allegories). Hmmmmm... 'the god of all'... the Adama.... interesting possibilities THERE. We also have the twin facets of the Halfling goddess Yondalla... just maybe...
Anyhow, definitely moving well away from the purposes of this thread. Sorry everyone. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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What exactly are the Elder Treants?
