| Author |
 Topic  |
|
Aryalómë
Senior Scribe
USA
666 Posts |
 Posted - 18 Feb 2011 : 00:50:51
|
|
I am very confused about thisnissue. The books and sources say tjey habe "black" skin colouring, but in pictures it is a darkish grey color. I mucj prefer the grey colour, but what does everyone else think?
|
|
|
The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 18 Feb 2011 : 01:01:15
|
Basically, the text about the drow skin tone in the Underdark sourcebook was changed because artists supposedly couldn't draw/paint/etc ebony/obsidian skinned drow.
Rich Baker said that they only did this in one sourcebook in the last 20 or so years because the artists had a difficult time drawing drow... thus the text was changed to match the artist images. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
 |
|
|
Aryalómë
Senior Scribe
USA
666 Posts |
Posted - 18 Feb 2011 : 01:08:14
|
| I've seen some pictures where it was actually black and it looked awful!!!!!!!!! The dark grey tone fits mich better. Doesn't polished obsidian have that dark grey colour? |
|
|
|
Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36782 Posts |
Posted - 18 Feb 2011 : 02:12:45
|
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Basically, the text about the drow skin tone in the Underdark sourcebook was changed because artists supposedly couldn't draw/paint/etc ebony/obsidian skinned drow.
Rich Baker said that they only did this in one sourcebook in the last 20 or so years because the artists had a difficult time drawing drow... thus the text was changed to match the artist images.
This is something that I myself rather dislike. There is artwork of drow with black skin going back 20 years, but during 3E, it somehow became too difficult for artists to pull off. 
And I object most strenuously to changing the description of something because an artist can't get it right. My thinking is that if the artist doesn't deliver what was asked for, either they redo it or they don't get paid. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
|
|
|
Aryalómë
Senior Scribe
USA
666 Posts |
Posted - 18 Feb 2011 : 02:24:53
|
| So what you guus are saying is that they coudn't hand le the dark greu one so they went to black? |
|
|
|
Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7974 Posts |
Posted - 18 Feb 2011 : 02:34:18
|
| This has been discussed many times before. Blue/grey flesh tones were easier for the artists to depict with visually lifelike realism; thus many earlier drow portraits being shown with bluish/purplish in their tinting, lighting, thematic or background elements. Later drow artwork inconsistently varied drow skin between these and the "proper" colouration. In-game explanations were sometimes forwarded that these variations resulted from drow originating within different cities or clans/lineages, or even changed with exposure to underdark radiation, the elements, changing diet, or sunlight the same way the skin of paler folk can tan or harden. Some of the more radical explanations suggested that since their dark faces were a curse/punishment for their evil it would somehow lighten up a bit among good-aligned drow specimens. |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 18 Feb 2011 02:37:50 |
|
|
|
Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
Posted - 18 Feb 2011 : 02:34:54
|
No, it's the other way around. They were supposed to be black, but artists "could not paint/draw jet black skin", so they lightened it in their art, and the descriptions were changed to match the art. Incidentally, there are PLENTY of artists on Deviant Art alone who obviously CAN handle doing black skin- and much of the art there is FAR superior to some of the "official" drow art, IMO!!
Incidentally, polished obsidian is actually a VERY dark "black glass". It's volcanic glass formed from cooled lava, actually, and is in fact pure black in most cases. (Occasionally it is a very dark brown, but that's more rare.) You can look it up in a google search to see examples of it. Personally, I've always thought of them as looking more like Onyx in color, which is also pure black, but is more smooth and soft looking. It has a luster more like skin, so fits better as a descriptor, IMHO. |
The Goddess is alive, and magic is afoot.
"Where Science ends, Magic begins" -Spiral, Uncanny X-Men #491
"You idiots! You've captured their STUNT doubles!" -Spaceballs
Lothir's character background/stats: http://forum.candlekeep.com/pop_profile.asp?mode=display&id=5469
My stories:
http://z3.invisionfree.com/Mickeys_Comic_Tavern/index.php?showforum=188
Lothir, courtesy of Sylinde (Deviant Art)/Luaxena (Chosen of Eilistraee)
http://sylinde.deviantart.com/#/d2z6e4u |
|
|
|
Aryalómë
Senior Scribe
USA
666 Posts |
Posted - 18 Feb 2011 : 02:56:11
|
| Eww XC I like the grey skin better. To me, black jst seems like a nasty clour for skn. Besides, the grey goes better with their hair, clothes, and eyes. ;) |
|
|
|
The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 18 Feb 2011 : 03:19:59
|
quote:
Originally posted by tradwitch1313
So what you guus are saying is that they coudn't hand le the dark greu one so they went to black?
This is entirely dependent upon the artist in question. Obviously, some have better skills in this area than others. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
|
|
|
Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
|
|
Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7974 Posts |
Posted - 18 Feb 2011 : 04:20:28
|
I've even heard a joke about TSR cutting corners on their printing costs by diluting their black ink.
tradwitch — Preference is not the issue. The stated reasons of artistic compromise are nonetheless accurate. Many fine depictions exist of drow with any intermediate shade of blue, grey, brown, or black skin (as Alystra's links illustrate). Each Artist has different skills, techniques, imagination, and limitations; each viewer has different perceptions and bias. These days you even have the option of photo editing the colour balance to preference. |
[/Ayrik] |
|
|
|
Fellfire
Master of Realmslore
1965 Posts |
Posted - 18 Feb 2011 : 05:28:12
|
| Some sexy stuff there Alystra. That Mr. Mavrosh has talent! I especially like Ceithre, with the Eberron-style scorpion poison tattoos. My only complaint is the whites (sclera) of the eyes, but it makes for a sick @$$ pic. |
Misanthorpe
Love is a lie. Only hate endures. Light is blinding. Only in darkness do we see clearly.
"Oh, you think darkness is your ally? You merely adopted the dark. I was born in it, molded by it. I didn't see the light until I was already a man, by then it was nothing to me but.. blinding. The shadows betray you because they belong to me." - Bane The Dark Knight Rises
Green Dragonscale Dice Bag by Crystalsidyll - check it out
|
Edited by - Fellfire on 18 Feb 2011 05:30:10 |
|
|
|
Chosen of Asmodeus
Master of Realmslore
1221 Posts |
Posted - 18 Feb 2011 : 07:57:17
|
I justify it in my realms games simply by having drow have some variety in skin color. I've seen ashen grey, onyx and obsidian black, blue, and purple. I Say they just run the gambit between those.
Then again, in my homebrew, the equivalent of drow have sickly white to translucent skin because that's what you actually get from living underground for that long. |
"Then I saw there was a way to Hell even from the gates of Heaven"
- John Bunyan, Pilgrim's Progress
Fatum Iustum Stultorum. Righteous is the destiny of fools.
The Roleplayer's Gazebo;
http://theroleplayersgazebo.yuku.com/directory#.Ub4hvvlJOAY |
|
|
|
Quale
Master of Realmslore
1757 Posts |
Posted - 18 Feb 2011 : 08:52:14
|
| TSR could have saved a lot of ink with Ed's albino drow, not sure how it would affect the fans, probably the sales would suffer. |
|
|
|
Chosen of Asmodeus
Master of Realmslore
1221 Posts |
Posted - 18 Feb 2011 : 09:02:57
|
| The likely truth in that makes me sad. |
"Then I saw there was a way to Hell even from the gates of Heaven"
- John Bunyan, Pilgrim's Progress
Fatum Iustum Stultorum. Righteous is the destiny of fools.
The Roleplayer's Gazebo;
http://theroleplayersgazebo.yuku.com/directory#.Ub4hvvlJOAY |
|
|
|
BEAST
Master of Realmslore
USA
1714 Posts |
Posted - 18 Feb 2011 : 09:28:44
|
| Can't drow wear make-up? There's you an easy explanation for apparently varying skin tones. It's the make-up that varies--not the skin. |
"'You don't know my history,' he said dryly."
--Drizzt Do'Urden (The Pirate King, Part 1: Chapter 2)
<"Comprehensive Chronology of R.A. Salvatore Forgotten Realms Works"> |
|
|
|
Zireael
Master of Realmslore
Poland
1190 Posts |
Posted - 18 Feb 2011 : 13:49:49
|
And hair dyes for varying (but rarely) hair colours...
Personally, I prefer black or very dark grey to purple or blue. Dark brown.. depends. Lockwood's Liriel was fine, but most other drow depictions in brown are not. |
SiNafay Vrinn, the daughter of Lloth, from Ched Nasad!
http://zireael07.wordpress.com/ |
|
|
|
Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 18 Feb 2011 : 20:32:47
|
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
This is something that I myself rather dislike. There is artwork of drow with black skin going back 20 years, but during 3E, it somehow became too difficult for artists to pull off.
I believe you are referring to THIS.
I posted that before, the last time this came up. Greyhawk Drow are BLACK, end of story. They shouldn't change the lore because of certain artist's inadequacies.
Albino Elves exist, in both Drow and sea Elves (Maril), so one could assume that all sub-races of elf are susceptible to this condition. I would think amongst surface elves, such a condition would be looked upon as a blessing (the pure white skin is reminiscent of 'Faerie Queen' paintings). |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
|
Edited by - Markustay on 18 Feb 2011 20:33:42 |
|
|
|
Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36782 Posts |
Posted - 18 Feb 2011 : 21:11:57
|
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
This is something that I myself rather dislike. There is artwork of drow with black skin going back 20 years, but during 3E, it somehow became too difficult for artists to pull off.
I believe you are referring to THIS.
I posted that before, the last time this came up. Greyhawk Drow are BLACK, end of story. They shouldn't change the lore because of certain artist's inadequacies.
Albino Elves exist, in both Drow and sea Elves (Maril), so one could assume that all sub-races of elf are susceptible to this condition. I would think amongst surface elves, such a condition would be looked upon as a blessing (the pure white skin is reminiscent of 'Faerie Queen' paintings).
Indeed. I couldn't find a reasonably-sized version of that pic, but that was exactly what I had in mind.
Interestingly, the artist seems to be more well-known for his Christian artwork. Considering the antics of Jack Chick and some other Christian groups (strictly in regard to RPGs), that strikes me as ironic. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
|
|
|
Chosen of Asmodeus
Master of Realmslore
1221 Posts |
Posted - 18 Feb 2011 : 21:39:09
|
I'm not completely sure why a race that can't see in color 80-90% of the time would wear make-up or dye their hair. Darkvision all they'd see are varying shades of grey, and infravision all they'd see would be a red/orange blob, anyway. Only time they'd really get color would be under candle or torch light, which they try to avoid. I guess I could see mages and members of the clergy doing it since they're the most likely to actually have a light source around.
Of course, this is isn't counting surface drow.
As for preference, I prefer the onyx black and dark greys, but I dislike the concept of a race that is monochrome. |
"Then I saw there was a way to Hell even from the gates of Heaven"
- John Bunyan, Pilgrim's Progress
Fatum Iustum Stultorum. Righteous is the destiny of fools.
The Roleplayer's Gazebo;
http://theroleplayersgazebo.yuku.com/directory#.Ub4hvvlJOAY |
|
|
|
Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7974 Posts |
Posted - 18 Feb 2011 : 22:14:18
|
Perhaps they cake on insulating clay or mud to conceal their heat from infravision (as RL soldiers camo-paint their faces)? Or simply war-paint, to declare identity, distract and intimidate opponents. Of course, being pointy-eared elfers as they are, the drow would carry even such routine tasks into extravagantly elegant extremes and each facial painting would be an artistic masterpiece. Drow cosmetics/makeup might have evolved into a sophisticated affair which proclaims family/clan/house affiliations, social status, accomplishments, etc ... basically just drow heraldry.
I'm not stating these as facts, only as suggestions. |
[/Ayrik] |
|
|
|
Synthalus
Learned Scribe
USA
170 Posts |
Posted - 18 Feb 2011 : 22:19:01
|
| the drow have magical innate abilites, that being said its safe to say that they dont give off heat as a magical adaptation to the underdark radiation that gave them there other abilities. |
"That is not dead which can eternal lie,
And with strange aeons even death may die."
— H.P. Lovecraft (The Call of Cthulhu and Other Weird Stories) |
|
|
|
Chosen of Asmodeus
Master of Realmslore
1221 Posts |
Posted - 18 Feb 2011 : 22:26:38
|
| Which would make them invisible to each other in infravision. As humorous as drow randomly bumping into each other would be, I think we can discount that... |
"Then I saw there was a way to Hell even from the gates of Heaven"
- John Bunyan, Pilgrim's Progress
Fatum Iustum Stultorum. Righteous is the destiny of fools.
The Roleplayer's Gazebo;
http://theroleplayersgazebo.yuku.com/directory#.Ub4hvvlJOAY |
|
|
|
BEAST
Master of Realmslore
USA
1714 Posts |
Posted - 18 Feb 2011 : 23:00:28
|
| Drow make-up could be chosen for other reasons besides color. Perhaps it helps preserve their youthful looks by protecting their skin against wrinkles, blemishes, rashes, etc. Maybe it insulates against faez'ress radiation (aka to SPF sunscreen and UV rays). Maybe they have all-day astringents to minimize oily residue and leave-in hair conditioner to maintain that luscious shine... |
"'You don't know my history,' he said dryly."
--Drizzt Do'Urden (The Pirate King, Part 1: Chapter 2)
<"Comprehensive Chronology of R.A. Salvatore Forgotten Realms Works"> |
|
|
|
Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7974 Posts |
Posted - 18 Feb 2011 : 23:03:59
|
I agree with CoA. Drow have to be able to see each other, regardless of whether through heat or light. Otherwise no point in drow vanity or learning drow sign language. To my knowledge they don't have any innate powers of invisibility or stealth, beyond the usual elfy sneakiness.
lol @ Beast, excellent commentary. I'd thump ye on the back, but ye look kinda sharp and pointy.  |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 18 Feb 2011 23:07:27 |
|
|
|
Chosen of Asmodeus
Master of Realmslore
1221 Posts |
Posted - 18 Feb 2011 : 23:37:56
|
| I can buy that, Beast. |
"Then I saw there was a way to Hell even from the gates of Heaven"
- John Bunyan, Pilgrim's Progress
Fatum Iustum Stultorum. Righteous is the destiny of fools.
The Roleplayer's Gazebo;
http://theroleplayersgazebo.yuku.com/directory#.Ub4hvvlJOAY |
|
|
|
woodwwad
Learned Scribe
USA
267 Posts |
Posted - 19 Feb 2011 : 02:07:16
|
| I make all my drow purple to bluish purple, just looks better. The ebony black doesn't look good, imo. |
Check out my reviews on youtube of Forgotten Realms and other rpg products. http://www.youtube.com/user/woodwwad?feature=mhum |
|
|
|
Chosen of Asmodeus
Master of Realmslore
1221 Posts |
Posted - 19 Feb 2011 : 02:24:34
|
| That's the thing, it does boil down to opinion. Which is another reason why I go with the "drow skin color has a natural range to it" excuse; different players will have different opinions, and this lets them use what they want. |
"Then I saw there was a way to Hell even from the gates of Heaven"
- John Bunyan, Pilgrim's Progress
Fatum Iustum Stultorum. Righteous is the destiny of fools.
The Roleplayer's Gazebo;
http://theroleplayersgazebo.yuku.com/directory#.Ub4hvvlJOAY |
|
|
|
Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
Posted - 19 Feb 2011 : 02:35:01
|
Well, the way I see it, even in the color black there are varying shades- raven, onyx, ink, pumice, charcoal, obsidian, licorice (there's a running joke with my drow bard that he's a chocolate/licorice elf...), red-black, midnight, char-wood, etc.... So you could just use black by itself and still get a wide variety of shades. Look at the paint-color samples in your local hardware store some time, and you'll get the idea. I even use them frequently to describe various colors in my stories.
Regarding make-up, I can see it being used for some of the above reasons- and perhaps to mask their heat, a la Arnold's character in Predator. Or they could used make-up that creates different heat-patterns by reacting to their own body heat in various ways- sort of like a darkvision (or infravison, depending on edition) of body paint. Perhaps it could even show different hues in various lighting conditions. (Matching the hue of the closest fairie-fire, or changing color from torch-light to darkness, etc.) |
The Goddess is alive, and magic is afoot.
"Where Science ends, Magic begins" -Spiral, Uncanny X-Men #491
"You idiots! You've captured their STUNT doubles!" -Spaceballs
Lothir's character background/stats: http://forum.candlekeep.com/pop_profile.asp?mode=display&id=5469
My stories:
http://z3.invisionfree.com/Mickeys_Comic_Tavern/index.php?showforum=188
Lothir, courtesy of Sylinde (Deviant Art)/Luaxena (Chosen of Eilistraee)
http://sylinde.deviantart.com/#/d2z6e4u |
|
|
|
Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7974 Posts |
Posted - 19 Feb 2011 : 03:23:40
|
| No doubt the drow would apply makeup to make the most of their (visual and thermal) appearance during significant interactions and ceremonial functions. |
[/Ayrik] |
|
|
|
Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36782 Posts |
Posted - 19 Feb 2011 : 04:20:46
|
quote:
Originally posted by Chosen of Asmodeus
That's the thing, it does boil down to opinion. Which is another reason why I go with the "drow skin color has a natural range to it" excuse; different players will have different opinions, and this lets them use what they want.
Opinion on what looks better is one thing. Changing prior lore because of artistic incompetence is quite another. It shows an utter disregard for prior lore and continuity. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
|
|
|
Topic |
|
Drow Skin Colour
