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Quale
Master of Realmslore

1757 Posts

Posted - 18 Feb 2011 :  20:49:35  Show Profile Send Quale a Private Message  Reply with Quote
In my Realms the fey creator race was artificial, they were outsiders and tried to merge their spirits to other creator races, e.g. doppelgangers/changelings (amphibians), faerie dragons, dark nagas, jabberwock and kobolds (reptiles), avariel (avians), voadkyn and fomorians etc.
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author

USA
4586 Posts

Posted - 18 Feb 2011 :  22:13:24  Show Profile  Visit Erik Scott de Bie's Homepage  Send Erik Scott de Bie an AOL message Send Erik Scott de Bie a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis

I prefer the 2nd ed version. I always loved the pic in the MM!
THIS one?
Ah, that's what I was thinking of. I remember seeing the kobolds in 3e and going "Eh?" Though by now I'm so used to it I don't even think about it.

Cheers

Erik Scott de Bie

'Tis easier to destroy than to create.

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Christopher_Rowe
Forgotten Realms Author

USA
879 Posts

Posted - 19 Feb 2011 :  01:51:13  Show Profile  Visit Christopher_Rowe's Homepage Send Christopher_Rowe a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I just got my author's copies of Sandstorm yesterday and have been reading it. I can't believe I didn't remember this through this whole long discussion. Although the mention is brief and the two characters in question don't even have dialogue (one doesn't even appear on page), there are, in fact, a human man and a halfling woman mentioned as being married to one another in my novel. So there's some Realmslore precedent, or will be as of March 1st, anyway.
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woodwwad
Learned Scribe

USA
267 Posts

Posted - 19 Feb 2011 :  02:03:35  Show Profile  Visit woodwwad's Homepage Send woodwwad a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I agree it is iky. I had a male human & halfling (hin) female romance in my game between 2 npcs, they weren't really meant to be liked and the players found them highly nasty.

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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader

USA
3747 Posts

Posted - 19 Feb 2011 :  05:41:33  Show Profile  Click to see Alystra Illianniis's MSN Messenger address Send Alystra Illianniis a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage

quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis

Yup! I'll second that! Kender are just half-gnomelings.....

No, they're more than that. A thorough reading of DRAGONLANCE lore proves that.



Sage, I was joking, you realize.... I know the history, though I still prefer some of the other suggested origins.

MT, to answer your question, I have no idea. Forsome reason, the link refuses to load on my PC. Can't see the pic.

The Goddess is alive, and magic is afoot.

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Fellfire
Master of Realmslore

1950 Posts

Posted - 19 Feb 2011 :  06:00:10  Show Profile Send Fellfire a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I've got a Kender Rogue/Jaunter character. She is a LOT of fun! Of course, since there are not a lot of other kender running around, she has hooked up with another of my PCs, this one a gnome. I've been meaning to get around to detailing their child, and use him/her eventually.

Misanthorpe

Love is a lie. Only hate endures. Light is blinding. Only in darkness do we see clearly.

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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader

USA
3747 Posts

Posted - 19 Feb 2011 :  06:10:26  Show Profile  Click to see Alystra Illianniis's MSN Messenger address Send Alystra Illianniis a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I've got a drow bard with a half-gold dragon Moon elf wife- does that seem icky? (Note: 2nd ed half-dragon- their visible draconic traits were limited to skin color, reptilian eyes, slightly elongated features, and very tall, long-limbed bodies. She also has claws. No tail or wings, however.) The kids look like half-drow with a gold sheen.

The Goddess is alive, and magic is afoot.

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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31691 Posts

Posted - 19 Feb 2011 :  08:23:53  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis

quote:
Originally posted by The Sage

quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis

Yup! I'll second that! Kender are just half-gnomelings.....

No, they're more than that. A thorough reading of DRAGONLANCE lore proves that.



Sage, I was joking, you realize.... I know the history, though I still prefer some of the other suggested origins.
Oh, I know. I was kinda conveying an alternate point with my comment, though. Maybe I should've placed greater emphasis on the more wording in my reply. My intent was to allude to a kender's other more troublesome antics and the like.

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Gavinfoxx
Learned Scribe

USA
132 Posts

Posted - 20 Feb 2011 :  07:07:17  Show Profile  Send Gavinfoxx an AOL message  Send Gavinfoxx an ICQ Message  Click to see Gavinfoxx's MSN Messenger address  Send Gavinfoxx a Yahoo! Message Send Gavinfoxx a Private Message  Reply with Quote
*Randomly does a quick search on this topic on some search engines and a few likely image posting places*

...Yuuup. People have thought of this before. And have plenty of rule 34 on the topic too. Of various gender combinations...
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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
7244 Posts

Posted - 20 Feb 2011 :  18:05:17  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Are halfling female's heads semi-flat enough to support a beer?

Are halfling female's mouths smaller than a human midgets?

These are the questions that come to mind.


quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie

And now for something completely different . . .

In honor of a discussion I had with an editor of mine, I'm doing what I promised/threatened to do, which is this:

Halfling + Human romance. Icky?

Discuss!

Cheers


Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
31298 Posts

Posted - 20 Feb 2011 :  18:20:07  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I don't think we really need comments like that.

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Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 20 Feb 2011 18:20:32
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Gavinfoxx
Learned Scribe

USA
132 Posts

Posted - 20 Feb 2011 :  18:43:02  Show Profile  Send Gavinfoxx an AOL message  Send Gavinfoxx an ICQ Message  Click to see Gavinfoxx's MSN Messenger address  Send Gavinfoxx a Yahoo! Message Send Gavinfoxx a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

I don't think we really need comments like that.



Which, Sley's or mine or both?
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader

USA
3747 Posts

Posted - 20 Feb 2011 :  19:46:18  Show Profile  Click to see Alystra Illianniis's MSN Messenger address Send Alystra Illianniis a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'm betting it was Sleyvas.

So- about that drow/half-dragon combo. Does that seem weird? Especially with a half-gold.

The Goddess is alive, and magic is afoot.

"Where Science ends, Magic begins" -Spiral, Uncanny X-Men #491

"You idiots! You've captured their STUNT doubles!" -Spaceballs

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Chosen of Asmodeus
Master of Realmslore

1221 Posts

Posted - 20 Feb 2011 :  22:17:55  Show Profile  Visit Chosen of Asmodeus's Homepage Send Chosen of Asmodeus a Private Message  Reply with Quote
After all the things I've seen paired during my warcraft days? That seems downright tame.

From a story perspective; if the interaction between these two characters made sense leading up to them getting into a relationship, then race doesn't matter.

"Then I saw there was a way to Hell even from the gates of Heaven"
- John Bunyan, Pilgrim's Progress

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Ayrik
Great Reader

Canada
6623 Posts

Posted - 10 Mar 2011 :  20:01:29  Show Profile Send Ayrik a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Other genres sometimes explore romance between (or at least offspring from) humans and machines, aliens, "monsters", or even entirely different orders of life/sentience. Love takes many forms, eh? Although I'm predisposed towards harder biological imperatives taking precedance over soft romantic ones; I'd personally think species who are "closer" in form have more in common (and thus more interest in each other as potential partners) whereas those who differ by greater degree would be utterly disinterested or repulsed by the idea. Humans and halflings are, in the grand scheme of things fantasy/sci-fi, remarkably similar creatures.

[/Ayrik]

Edited by - Ayrik on 10 Mar 2011 20:03:53
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
15675 Posts

Posted - 11 Mar 2011 :  00:00:07  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
*Meh*

Love is a Conditioned Response.

Procreation is important, and if two species cannot breed, then it is merely 'companionship', and so long as they enjoy each other's company, then no big deal. I've often wondered at why someone (Capt. Kirk comes to mind) would want to 'jump on' every alien they meet. After all, if it isn't human, then isn't that the definition of bestiality?

So by 20th century laws, Capt. Kirk is a hardened criminal.

Or at least, a degenerate.

Anyhow, if the prospect of children isn't involved, then like I said, its only companionship (which is love, but not romantic love). I watch the TV series 'V', and no matter how hot they look, I still know they are reptiles on the inside.

Just YUCK....

I guess my point is, the physical aspect of a relationship does not define it; the feelings do. I have had male friends I 'loved' far more then many of my girlfriends, but I certainly didn't want to sleep with any of them. To me, that would be the same type of love I could feel toward a non-human. I suppose if I grew-up in an environment surrounded by other sentient species I might feel differently, but as of right now, a female of another species (like and alien or a demi-human) would be the same to me as me 'checking-out' a female Ape, or a dog for that matter. I could 'love' them, but I wouldn't want to 'make love' to them.

I guess in another setting, I would be considered a xenophobic humanist (and probably a racist, LOL).

I'm not sure if I'm getting my point across clearly. Basically, if it isn't human, why get physical at all? Why can't you just be really great companions and that be the end of it? Is the physical aspect of the relationship really that important? And if so, then maybe you should be questioning your motives.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 11 Mar 2011 00:02:25
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader

USA
3747 Posts

Posted - 11 Mar 2011 :  00:59:25  Show Profile  Click to see Alystra Illianniis's MSN Messenger address Send Alystra Illianniis a Private Message  Reply with Quote
MT, there IS such a thing as romantic love without procreation. In fantasy and sci-fi, there are all sorts of species who are close enough to humans to have romantic feelings and even to "make love", they just can't inter-breed. (Like a Vulcan/Klingon. They could fall in love, just could not have kids.) And it's certainly not the same thing as checking out an ape. For one thing, apes do not share our mental sophistication, language skills, abstract thought, ideologies, etc. (AFAWK) Also, a humanoid species generally has very similar appearance, enough so as to affect the areas of the brain that dictate attraction. For the most part (and for all but the most utterly deviant) apes or dogs do not. I don't know of many people who would find an ape attractive at all, but a nearly human-looking being like an elf or Andorian? Sure, why not? If aliens float you boat, I see no reason why you can't get physical, even if kids are not possible. Even a Klingon could be considered attractive in a very primal sense, or, I suppose,certain orcs.

The Goddess is alive, and magic is afoot.

"Where Science ends, Magic begins" -Spiral, Uncanny X-Men #491

"You idiots! You've captured their STUNT doubles!" -Spaceballs

Lothir's character background/stats: http://forum.candlekeep.com/pop_profile.asp?mode=display&id=5469

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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31691 Posts

Posted - 11 Mar 2011 :  01:05:11  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Quale

In my Realms the fey creator race was artificial, they were outsiders and tried to merge their spirits to other creator races, e.g. doppelgangers/changelings (amphibians), faerie dragons, dark nagas, jabberwock and kobolds (reptiles), avariel (avians), voadkyn and fomorians etc.

Do you have any expansive notes on your artificial fey Creator Race, Quale? I'm positively intrigued by this.

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idilippy
Senior Scribe

USA
417 Posts

Posted - 11 Mar 2011 :  01:10:26  Show Profile Send idilippy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
For human-halfling love, as far as the 4ft tall 4e halflings go I find that much less icky than the thought of a barely 3ft tall halfling with a full sized human. Maybe it shouldn't make any difference to me if they're both consenting adults but it does, I just can't help it.

As for inner species romance, I like how in Mass Effect 2 when on Ilium you can hear the 'bachelor party' chatting as they watch the Asari dancer. Each of the different species is humanoid, but obviously very different, yet they all find themselves attracted to the Asari and argue about whether she looks Human, Salarian, or Turian and wondering if the Asari was subtly influencing their minds to make them appear similar to whatever species looks at them. I thought that was a pretty smart excuse for there being an entire race that is universally seen as attractive by every other race. That has more to do with the conditioned love/romantic love tangent then the original topic, but I like the explanation that the Asari are able to incite the conditioned response of love for procreation from every species through their subtle, innate mental abilities rather than everyone in the universe finding human-like women attractive.
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Thelonius
Senior Scribe

Spain
726 Posts

Posted - 11 Mar 2011 :  14:22:42  Show Profile  Click to see Thelonius's MSN Messenger address Send Thelonius a Private Message  Reply with Quote
For the halfling and human romance I would say that I like the idea, as I use to find halflings as easy going and real nice folks; I use to play halfling wizards anyway; about other kind of relationships as half-orc or things like that, got to say that I can't find a reason to avoid it either. Love is free :)

"If you are to truly understand, then you will need the contrast, not adherence to a single ideal." - Kreia
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Sapientia sola libertas est
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
31298 Posts

Posted - 11 Mar 2011 :  18:17:10  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

Procreation is important, and if two species cannot breed, then it is merely 'companionship', and so long as they enjoy each other's company, then no big deal. I've often wondered at why someone (Capt. Kirk comes to mind) would want to 'jump on' every alien they meet. After all, if it isn't human, then isn't that the definition of bestiality?


That particular definition is based on the premise that only humans are intelligent beings, capable of self-determination and the consequences of free will. This is not the situation in most fantasy and sci-fi.

Even in the real world, there's a lot of variations between what people find attractive. You don't even have to get into fetishes or kinks to find those variations... So it's perfectly reasonable, to me, to think that a human might be sexually attracted to an elf, a Na'vi, a Minbari, a Vulcan, or a Twi'lek.

Your mention of Kirk does bring something else to mind, though... I've long joked that Kirk is proof that Starfleet has an insanely effective antibiotics/immunization program. All those alien races, never before encountered by humans, and Kirk never caught anything from any of them...

It's been a source of amusement to me, but it does make me wonder about the possibility, in a fantasy world, of sexually transmitted diseases that affect one race but not another, or that have differing effects on different races.

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Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 11 Mar 2011 18:18:49
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
15675 Posts

Posted - 11 Mar 2011 :  18:36:22  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well, I guess I am just looking at things in a broader sense - Orcs are NOT attractive, yet we have lots of orc/Human couplings. Goblins are both small AND repulsive, yet we have a least one canon example of a human/Goblin crossbreed (which was facilitated by the human rape of the Goblin!)

So when it comes to the 'ickiness level' of inter-breeding, why is more acceptable if the creature is 'prettier'? Several monstrous species can change their appearances - Fiends, Dragons, Dopplegangers, etc - so I just don't 'get it'. Why do Fantasy (and I suppose Scyfi) humans not care what's 'on the inside'. Are people REALLY that shallow? An Elf is no less alien then an Orc, but if a human female is walking around town with her Elf lover, that is acceptable, whereas her Orc lover would not be.

I don't know... something about this whole subject just rubs me the wrong way. I guess if I was born in a culture with other sentient creatures I might feel different, but I just ain't feeling it. I underrated 80's movie - Enemy Mine - gives us a very clear picture of why such things would be hard to fathom. The human became very good friends with his alien enemy, and toward the end, found out his friend was actually a female of it's species (it gave birth). At no time did the protagonist ever feel anything beyond deep friendship for the other being. In other words, if you can't tell it's female, why the hell would you develop those sorts of feelings? I understand the argument with halflings and elves, but DWARVES? Canon states that it is very hard to tell males from females, especially the groups that prefer to go bearded (in the case of the females). It doesn't strike anyone as peculiar that a normal* human male would want to kiss someone with a better beard then him?

Like I said, I guess if I grew-up on such a world as Toril these things wouldn't bother me so much, but coming from a planet where anything sentient-but-not-human would be considered either an alien, demonic, or a monster, its a bit hard for me not to feel a lot of this is contrived (not just in FR or D&D, but in the whole Fantasy/Scyfi genre).

Also, I am pretty sure a Vucan/Klingon crossbreed is possible - humans can breed with both (Spock, B'Eelanna), and Klingons can breed with Romulans (Ba'el)... who were part of the Vulcan race millenia ago. It seems that in space, just like in D&D, humans are like dogs and will jump anything.

EDIT: Excellent point, Wooly! I hadn't even considered that! If two races are alike enough to be able to breed, then most diseases should be transmittable. I suppose in a fantasy setting with literally hundreds (thousands?) of other sentients on the same world such things would have been 'worked-out' through evolution long ago, but in a Scyfi (or SJ) campaign, new worlds/species mean new diseases.

*And before someone construes an insult in that, by 'normal' I mean 'average', as in 'the run-of-the-mill' human male. A LOT of this argument could go the other way in the case of same-gender preferences. Whereas the 'bearded' argument goes right out the window, you end up with brand new ones like male orc/male Human... which I don't even want to think about.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 11 Mar 2011 22:35:11
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Portella
Learned Scribe

United Kingdom
239 Posts

Posted - 11 Mar 2011 :  18:52:17  Show Profile  Visit Portella's Homepage Send Portella a Private Message  Reply with Quote
You know in the sell swords book dont know which one salvatore implied that artemis had feelings for and vice-versa with a halfling woman from calisham I dont remember her name. So it has been done or implied before I dont see any issues.

Purple you say?!

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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
31298 Posts

Posted - 11 Mar 2011 :  19:00:12  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

Well, I guess I am just looking at things in a broader sense - Orcs are NOT attractive, yet we have lots of orc/Human couplings. Goblins are both small AND repulsive, yet we have a least one canon example of a human/Goblin crossbreed (which was facilitated by the human rape of the Goblin!)

So when it comes to the 'ickiness level' of inter-breeding, why is more acceptable if the creature is 'prettier'? Several monstrous species can change their appearances - Fiends, Dragons, Dopplegangers, etc - so I just don't 'get it'. Why do Fantasy (and I suppose Scyfi) humans not care what's 'on the inside'. Are people REALLY that shallow? An Elf is no less alien then an Orc, but if a human female is walking around town with her Elf lover, that is acceptable, whereas her Orc lover would not be.

I don't know... something about this whole subject just rubs me the wrong way. I guess if I was born in a culture with other sentient creatures I might feel different, but I just ain't feeling it. I underrated 80's movie - Enemy Mine - gives us a very clear picture of why such things would be hard to fathom. The human became very good friends with his alien enemy, and toward the end, found out his friend was actually a female of it's species (it gave birth). At no time did the protagonist ever feel anything beyond deep friendship for the other being. In other words, if you can't tell it's female, why the hell would you develop those sorts of feelings? I understand the argument with halflings and elves, but DWARVES? Canon states that it is very hard to tell males from females, especially the groups that prefer to go bearded (in the case of the females). It doesn't strike anyone as peculiar that a normal* human male would want to kiss someone with a better beard then him?

Like I said, I guess if I grew-up on such a world as Toril these things wouldn't bother me so much, but coming from a planet where anything sentient-but-not-human would be considered either an alien, demonic, or a monster, its a bit hard for me not to feel a lot of this is contrived (not just in FR or D&D, but in the whole Fantasy/Scyfi genre).

Also, I am pretty sure a Vucan/Klingon crossbread is possible - humans can breed with both (Spock, B'Eelanna), and Klingons can breed with Romulans (Ba'el)... who were part of the Vulcan race millenia ago. It seems that in space, just like in D&D, humans are like dogs and will jump anything.

EDIT: Excellent point, Wooly! I hadn't even considered that! If two races are alike enough to be able to breed, then most diseases should be transmittable. I suppose in a fantasy setting with literally hundreds (thousands?) of other sentients on the same world such things would have been 'worked-out' through evolution long ago, but in a Scyfi (or SJ) campaign, new worlds/species mean new diseases.

*And before someone construes an insult in that, by 'normal' I mean 'average', as in 'the run-of-the-mill' human male. A LOT of this argument could go the other way in the case of same-gender preferences. Whereas the 'bearded' argument goes right out the window, you end up with brand new ones like male orc/male Human... which I don't even want to think about.



What's a crossbread?

We've got plenty of people in the real world willing to have sex with someone pretty, regardless of what that person is like... I know I myself have been in lust more than once.

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Portella
Learned Scribe

United Kingdom
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Posted - 11 Mar 2011 :  22:03:02  Show Profile  Visit Portella's Homepage Send Portella a Private Message  Reply with Quote
aye found her name Dwahvel Tiggerwillies but in the book it is implied that it is more then close friend ship they wish it could have happen
"Entreri became close friends with a halfling by the name of Dwahvel Tiggerwillies, the guildmistress of a halfling guild based in the Calimport. He was able to confide in her, which was a rare thing indeed for the assassin." - from wikipedia

Purple you say?!

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