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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
 Posted - 02 Feb 2011 : 03:07:22
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And now for something completely different . . .
In honor of a discussion I had recently, I'm doing what I promised/threatened to do, which is this:
Halfling + Human romance. Icky?
Discuss!
Cheers
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Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
Edited by - Erik Scott de Bie on 10 Mar 2011 19:20:17
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 02 Feb 2011 : 03:15:44
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There are certain.. implications... when a grown man wants to have relations with a 3 foot tall person.
Just sayin'
As for me, I always thought Olive Ruskettle was hot, but I'm a sick bastitch. 
I think no matter how you handle it, someone will get his 'jollies' from a story featuring such a romance, despite how classy you portray it. I don't think you can really avoid that - and I've read about worse 'affairs', one in Throne of Bones (girl on ghoul), and one in one of the Majipoor Chronicles (girl on reptile-dude), so halflings are pretty tame by comparison.
There is also an Elf/Treant affair in the 2e Complete Book of Elves (IIRC), which is kinda nasty.
Female Dwarves with anyone (but a gnome) is just WRONG (I still can't wash the 2e images of bearded dawrfettes out of my head). Besides, they all look like Russian Olympic Shot-putters. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 02 Feb 2011 03:19:04 |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7968 Posts |
Posted - 02 Feb 2011 : 03:19:11
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D&D humans will apparently breed with anything and anybody. You could do a lot worse than a halfling.
D&D halflings might be prejudiced against such relationships with the misshapen tall races. Then again, halflings as a people are noted for being easy-going, lazy, and tolerant (if not downright permissive, lugubrious, and insouciant). I'd imagine this halfling would likely hail from a human city/culture instead of some distant underburrow halfshire, so human-halfling intercourse seems almost inevitable.
My question is what would the half-halfling offspring of such a union be called? A three-quarterling? |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 02 Feb 2011 03:20:13 |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 02 Feb 2011 : 03:20:03
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Not icky...perhaps, difficult?
In a Forgotten Realms perspective, I'd say the hardest thing would be people frowning on a Human Male as having pedophilia by proxy perhaps...
In our own real world, I've seen vast differences in height between couples. As an example: a 6'9" man having a girlfriend who was only 5'2"...
I would say that many readers might look at it as the less tolerable case of by proxy I mentioned earlier...it is after all the first thing I thought of. |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 02 Feb 2011 : 03:23:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Arik
D&D halflings might be prejudiced against such relationships with the misshapen tall races.
Didn't classic (pre-3e) 'Tallfellows' have a smattering of Elvish blood, and 'Stouts' some Dwarvish blood?
I think that old-school lore eradicates the notion that halflings aren't willing to participate in inter-species fornication.
Edit: I would also assume Gnome/Halfilings are a given, at least pre-4e. Probably where we get the occasional bearded hobbit from. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 02 Feb 2011 03:26:43 |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 02 Feb 2011 : 03:28:28
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Oh, where to begin...?
Height. Right. That's it. I say it depends on their height. A 6-foot tall human and a 3-foot tall halfling? That's like doin'... Well, I leave the rest to your rich imagination. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4685 Posts |
Posted - 02 Feb 2011 : 03:30:28
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Love is where the heart finds it.
As to the character Kentinal, if it looks female fair game (There again Kentinal was to die an early death because of his evil nature - the reason the character was first made).
@Markustay you bring a bias to the discussion, there is nothing that says human male and halfling female it could clearly be other sided.
In RW there are "normal" people that marry "little people" and I have never seen much outrage about it.
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"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 02 Feb 2011 : 03:45:30
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quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
In RW there are "normal" people that marry "little people" and I have never seen much outrage about it.
Indeed. In fact, there's a famous place here in the Philippines where such a thing is rather "common."
But then we're talking about two VERY different species: human and halfling. So, maybe at first it's really icky. However, once you get used to the idea, it might sound "normal."
Didn't such a coupling ever happen in DL? |
Every beginning has an end. |
Edited by - Dennis on 02 Feb 2011 03:48:23 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 02 Feb 2011 : 04:01:48
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quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
Love is where the heart finds it.
As to the character Kentinal, if it looks female fair game (There again Kentinal was to die an early death because of his evil nature - the reason the character was first made).
@Markustay you bring a bias to the discussion, there is nothing that says human male and halfling female it could clearly be other sided.
In RW there are "normal" people that marry "little people" and I have never seen much outrage about it.
Unfortunately, I would think the exact same thing in the RW. I have to ask myself why the 'big person' was attracted to the 'little person' in the first place, to have made the initial approach - no-one walks across a bar and says "Hey! there's a person I'd love to be friends with!" There had to be something about the little person physically that caused the big person to be interested in the first place, and that leads to a rather unsavory line of reasoning. If the initial approach were the other way around, then I would not think anything odd.
As for your statement about the female being human... I'm just not seeing it (there are certain 'fulfillment issues' that I think a Halfling male can't measure-up to... but you never know).
I suppose in a fantasy world were all things are possible and magic is involved, you can get around any of the normal... inconveniences.
But I'll tell you one thing, in the RW, if Ogres were real, we'd all be complaining about them getting all the best tail.  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 02 Feb 2011 04:06:32 |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7968 Posts |
Posted - 02 Feb 2011 : 04:03:54
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Yes, half-kender exist. One is the protagonist (and plot) of a short story called Kender Stew.
I've always been against the notion of fantasy "genetics". Breeding an eagle with a panther in RL doesn't produce flying cat raptors. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 02 Feb 2011 : 04:06:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
Didn't such a coupling ever happen in DL?
Yes and no... No, in that there are no Krynnish halflings. Yes, in that kender are rather similar to halflings, and there was a half-kender in one of the Cloakmaster books. Gaeadrelle Goldring, as I recall. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 02 Feb 2011 : 04:15:33
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I was reading Halflings of Golarion today, and had a similar thought (no, it's not addressed in there). Yes, there is the height difference to seriously complicate matters -- especially the physics of getting physical (and I'm refraining from making the most obvious joke here; it's obvious, but too tasteless for me).
That said, I don't see such romances as being out of the question, or even icky. As long as it's consenting adults, and so long as they can make it work, it's all good.
Such romances would be rather uncommon, though. In a city the size of Waterdeep, I'd imagine less than half a dozen such couples.
I think a halfling family might be more accepting of a human mate than vice versa. It would depend on the cultures and individuals, of course, but I think halflings would generally be more accepting of it. |
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Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 02 Feb 2011 04:18:17 |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7968 Posts |
Posted - 02 Feb 2011 : 04:19:34
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There's also magic. Enlarge/Reduce, Change Self, Item, Polymorph, Telekinesis ... ah, I'll stop there.
I'm not sure all the half-human/half-? people in Faerûn are the result of unions between consenting adults. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 02 Feb 2011 : 04:21:59
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
Didn't such a coupling ever happen in DL?
Yes and no... No, in that there are no Krynnish halflings. Yes, in that kender are rather similar to halflings, and there was a half-kender in one of the Cloakmaster books. Gaeadrelle Goldring, as I recall.
I seem to recall a few brief mention of it in some of the DL novels I read. But it's been ages. I left DL long time ago. Not even my used-to-be favorite Raistlin could revive my interest in that world. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4685 Posts |
Posted - 02 Feb 2011 : 04:26:25
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Erik, it certainly can become icky.
I found this a few years ago, a web novel. In some ways not poorly written, - I have read worst.
http://www.the-minimizer.com/st01.html
The writers home page is http://www.the-minimizer.com/main.html which at least to me appears to have a kink.
There are many people out there. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 02 Feb 2011 : 04:26:48
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I think a halfling family might be more accepting of a human mate than vice versa. It would depend on the cultures and individuals, of course, but I think halflings would generally be more accepting of it.
Of course. Common Faerunians consider human a race higher than halfling. Even the haughty elves think so.
That's like saying a peasant will be more accepting to having a relationship with a prince than vice versa. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 02 Feb 2011 : 04:33:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
Erik, it certainly can become icky.
I found this a few years ago, a web novel. In some ways not poorly written, - I have read worst.
http://www.the-minimizer.com/st01.html
The writers home page is http://www.the-minimizer.com/main.html which at least to me appears to have a kink.
There are many people out there.
That sketch in ADVENTURES IN MINIATURIZATION is plain disturbing. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4685 Posts |
Posted - 02 Feb 2011 : 04:39:54
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
That sketch in ADVENTURES IN MINIATURIZATION is plain disturbing.
I agree, I found it by accident, was searching for something else. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 02 Feb 2011 : 04:56:07
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The guy must have had some "issues" with women. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 02 Feb 2011 : 05:15:51
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quote:
Originally posted by Arik
Yes, half-kender exist. One is the protagonist (and plot) of a short story called Kender Stew.
Half-kender are rare, but there are two known cases -- Tarli Half-Kender and Scrounger. Some kender may look more mature than normal specimens of their race, perhaps enough that they look like young teenager. Enter in an adolescent boy with extreme hormone issues, and you get a half-kender.
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 02 Feb 2011 : 05:16:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
Didn't such a coupling ever happen in DL?
Yes and no... No, in that there are no Krynnish halflings. Yes, in that kender are rather similar to halflings ...
Races of Ansalon elaborates on this a little, from an out-of-game perspective. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 02 Feb 2011 : 05:18:01
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
Didn't such a coupling ever happen in DL?
Yes and no... No, in that there are no Krynnish halflings. Yes, in that kender are rather similar to halflings, and there was a half-kender in one of the Cloakmaster books. Gaeadrelle Goldring, as I recall.
I seem to recall a few brief mention of it in some of the DL novels I read. But it's been ages. I left DL long time ago. Not even my used-to-be favorite Raistlin could revive my interest in that world.
I've been following DL material since the beginning, and I can recall no instances of halflings in any of the material published.
Mayhap it was an unofficial source you were reading?
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 02 Feb 2011 : 05:34:28
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
Didn't such a coupling ever happen in DL?
Yes and no... No, in that there are no Krynnish halflings. Yes, in that kender are rather similar to halflings, and there was a half-kender in one of the Cloakmaster books. Gaeadrelle Goldring, as I recall.
I seem to recall a few brief mention of it in some of the DL novels I read. But it's been ages. I left DL long time ago. Not even my used-to-be favorite Raistlin could revive my interest in that world.
I've been following DL material since the beginning, and I can recall no instances of halflings in any of the material published.
Mayhap it was an unofficial source you were reading?
Not halflings. KENDER. Wooly already pointed it out that halflings don't exist in DL. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 02 Feb 2011 : 06:23:38
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Thanks for all the input.
This specific situation involved a male halfling who "had a thing" for a female human. In case that changes the issue any (and why?).
A corollary question: what are your views on a gnome/elf relationship? (For you 4e people, I mean either an "elf" or an "eladrin.")
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
Edited by - Erik Scott de Bie on 02 Feb 2011 06:24:17 |
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Knight of the Gate
Senior Scribe
USA
624 Posts |
Posted - 02 Feb 2011 : 07:02:17
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A couple f things that have not been brought up: While human-elf pairings seem more palatable from both the physical (attraction and sheer workability) and fantasy history (LoTR, for one) perspectives, I would think that hin and humans would be *more* likely to find lasting love, for totally non-physical reasons.
For one thing, the aspect of an elf outliving even 4 or 5 consecutive human lovers is avoided: Halflings aren't adults till their mid-30s or so, and only live to be 120-ish. If a 40 y.o. halfling meets a 22 year-old human, they have roughly the same life-expectancy. Furthermore, they have far more in common to begin with than the human and the elf- they speak the same languages (if they are from the same region), they eat the same foods, listen to the same sorts of music, and have much more in common from a religious perspective. I feel that overall, the hin and human cultures (esp. with hin living in human settlements) are more alike than they are different, whereas this is patently not true with humans and elves.
Having said all of that, I think that the attractiveness aspect of the equation keeps elves and humans going after each other in a short-term purely lust-based way FAR more than it would between a halfling and human.
Just playing devil's advocate a bit here. Good question, Erik. |
How can life be so bountiful, providing such sublime rewards for mediocrity? -Umberto Ecco |
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Jorin Embersmith
Acolyte
USA
48 Posts |
Posted - 02 Feb 2011 : 07:36:37
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I always assumed that Halfings were all very "Captain Jack Harkness", i.e.: If it's sentient and attractive, go nuts!
If you don't get the reference, watch Doctor Who from 2005 on. |
Karavarus: I polymorph into a Hydra and let loose a bellowing roar! Is he intimidated?
Me: No, but the female hydra behind him certainly notices you... |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7968 Posts |
Posted - 02 Feb 2011 : 09:09:46
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I don't personally see any problem with human-halfling couplings. Not in a world already populated with dragonborn, genasi, cambions/tieflings, aasimar, etc. There are a fair number of "monsters" and species who lure humans with sexual attraction, sometimes to attack or feed, sometimes to procreate. I recall Fellfire describing a "to do" list involving a number of different species, including centaurs. I have little doubt that determined lovers will devise methods to overcome any physical complications they might encounter. There are even stories of predatory vampires, incorporeal ghosts, and cursed lycanthropes all finding ways to connect.
This of course assumes a physical consummation in the relationship. Although unlikely, chaste love always exists (indeed, might be forcibly imposed by biology). Somehow I suspect that humans and halflings are reasonably compatible. Gender roles aren't much of a consideration.
Both participants might be well aware of the physical/mental aging differences between their species. They might strive to work out methods or magics which could lengthen their contact. They might understand that, for at least one of them, their time together is transient. They might receive all sorts of advice from their respective elders, whether they want it or not. They might simply be blinded by infatuation and emotion, want to love for the moment, and just not give a damn at all about the consequences.
The couple might make extraordinary efforts to prevent conception, knowing that their halfbreed offspring will suffer from discrimination by both racial lines. Or they might make meticulous plans to introduce children into loving communities. Or, again, they might just not give a damn about the consequences in their lust. Assuming, of course, that neither parent harbours hidden motivations. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Arioch
Learned Scribe
Italy
222 Posts |
Posted - 02 Feb 2011 : 09:44:17
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Generally speaking, I agree with the assumpion that love is where the heart find it. (as kentinal)
I'm only afraid that criticism may arise. The issue (not linked to the sex of the halfling involved in the pair) is probably prone to quick and easy (superficial) psychological analysis...
... This is because: when we imagine stories regarding fantasy characters we need "examples" to picture them. This problem regards both the author, both the readers. As the authors, we "somehow" adapt real world situations (usually under layers of subsequent transformations), as readers we make "associations" ... and some reader may imagine that the closest thing to an halfling is a child, with all the problems this can bring.
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7968 Posts |
Posted - 02 Feb 2011 : 11:04:43
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A pairing of elf (or eladrin) and a gnome is a bit unusual but doesn't seem particularly offensive. There's a good number of half-ogres and half-giants as well, in which the size disparity between parents (let alone the mechanics of their union) again doesn't seem particularly offensive.
I'm actually a bit surprised the entire human-halfling topic is being examined by an "official" D&D author. I would've thought the ready association with human perversions would make it entirely untouchable. Can you say why this question has arisen, Erik? |
[/Ayrik] |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 02 Feb 2011 : 11:45:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
Thanks for all the input.
This specific situation involved a male halfling who "had a thing" for a female human. In case that changes the issue any (and why?).
A corollary question: what are your views on a gnome/elf relationship? (For you 4e people, I mean either an "elf" or an "eladrin.")
Cheers
I pretty much take the same view on an elf/gnome relationship as I would on a human/halfling one.
What would the offspring be called? Gnelf? Elme? |
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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 02 Feb 2011 : 11:49:21
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| Depends if its the hairy feet version of halflings, and if said human has a certain fetish. |
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Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
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Halfling x Human Romance: Icky? Discuss!
