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Mr_Miscellany
Senior Scribe

545 Posts

Posted - 31 Jan 2011 :  19:20:28  Show Profile Send Mr_Miscellany a Private Message  Reply with Quote  Delete Topic
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Edited by - Mr_Miscellany on 02 Apr 2011 00:02:14

Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader

USA
3747 Posts

Posted - 31 Jan 2011 :  19:28:20  Show Profile  Click to see Alystra Illianniis's MSN Messenger address Send Alystra Illianniis a Private Message  Reply with Quote
A permanent gate? A vein of gems or valuable metals? An ancient ruin that contains lots of buried treasures of some sort? Lots of ideas come to mind.

The Goddess is alive, and magic is afoot.

"Where Science ends, Magic begins" -Spiral, Uncanny X-Men #491

"You idiots! You've captured their STUNT doubles!" -Spaceballs

Lothir's character background/stats: http://forum.candlekeep.com/pop_profile.asp?mode=display&id=5469

My stories:
http://z3.invisionfree.com/Mickeys_Comic_Tavern/index.php?showforum=188

Lothir, courtesy of Sylinde (Deviant Art)/Luaxena (Chosen of Eilistraee)
http://sylinde.deviantart.com/#/d2z6e4u
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Knight of the Gate
Senior Scribe

USA
623 Posts

Posted - 31 Jan 2011 :  19:46:31  Show Profile Send Knight of the Gate a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Thinking a little outside the box, it need not necessarily be a thing of intrinsic value; I once had a gold dragon build his lair atop an ancient sunken city... in which one of his ancestors (who was widely regarded in dragon lore as a great, wise, and just wyrm) had magically enslaved 'lesser races' to make them 'better', and when this experiment failed, had slaughtered the whole city's populace for making him look bad. The current occupant had found it when looking for it's fabled ancestor's 'Lost City of Splendors' and had fortified a lair atop it to keep anyone from ever knowing the truth.

Keeping in the 'ancient secrets' vein, it could have something to do with the dragons' efforts to subvert or destroy the Dracorage Mythal (which, from reading Kisonraathisar's note in GHotR, we know that they have been trying to do for millenia), or maybe it's a node or one of the Weave Anchors we've heard Ed talk about in the 'Ask Ed' scroll. Also, since Dragons don't generally keep spellbooks, but rather find other ways of storing magic, there could be a huge stalagmite-sized crystal deep in a cavern which contains the spells of a long-dead wyrm, or even the secrets to dragon immortality (which Ed wrote about in Dragons of the North').

The article of interest need not be immovable, either- it could just be fragile, or maybe the dragon is so paranoid about protecting it that he/she doesn't want to risk moving it.

Good question, Mr. Misc, you have me thinking, now...

How can life be so bountiful, providing such sublime rewards for mediocrity? -Umberto Ecco

Edited by - Knight of the Gate on 31 Jan 2011 19:55:03
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Wenin
Senior Scribe

531 Posts

Posted - 31 Jan 2011 :  19:54:21  Show Profile Send Wenin a Private Message  Reply with Quote
A religious holy site.

An ancient power node that existed back during the creator races. The node empowers the Dragon to greater strength.

Is this something that ANY dragon is to covet, or could it be something special to a specific dragon?

If it can be for a specific dragon, you could have it be that their mate was subjected to a powerful imprisonment spell. The conditions to free their mate isn't simply casting freedom but something more involved.

Forgotten Realms Cartography For mappers that are wanting to share the work they've done within the Forgotten Realms setting.

Session Reports posted at RPG Geek.
Stem the Tide Takes place in Mistledale.
Dark Curtains - Takes place in the Savage North, starting in Nesmé. I wrapped my campaign into the Hoard of the Dragon Queen, but it takes place in 1372 DR.
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Wenin
Senior Scribe

531 Posts

Posted - 31 Jan 2011 :  19:58:48  Show Profile Send Wenin a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I like all of Knight's suggestions!

Forgotten Realms Cartography For mappers that are wanting to share the work they've done within the Forgotten Realms setting.

Session Reports posted at RPG Geek.
Stem the Tide Takes place in Mistledale.
Dark Curtains - Takes place in the Savage North, starting in Nesmé. I wrapped my campaign into the Hoard of the Dragon Queen, but it takes place in 1372 DR.
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Knight of the Gate
Senior Scribe

USA
623 Posts

Posted - 31 Jan 2011 :  20:28:24  Show Profile Send Knight of the Gate a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wenin

I like all of Knight's suggestions!


Thanks, Wenin. I've just restarted my long-running campaign after a long hiatus, so I'm feeling the FR creativity today!

How can life be so bountiful, providing such sublime rewards for mediocrity? -Umberto Ecco
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader

USA
3747 Posts

Posted - 31 Jan 2011 :  20:53:59  Show Profile  Click to see Alystra Illianniis's MSN Messenger address Send Alystra Illianniis a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I likethe imprisoned mate idea! Or how about being forced to guard something by having their offspring held hostage?

The Goddess is alive, and magic is afoot.

"Where Science ends, Magic begins" -Spiral, Uncanny X-Men #491

"You idiots! You've captured their STUNT doubles!" -Spaceballs

Lothir's character background/stats: http://forum.candlekeep.com/pop_profile.asp?mode=display&id=5469

My stories:
http://z3.invisionfree.com/Mickeys_Comic_Tavern/index.php?showforum=188

Lothir, courtesy of Sylinde (Deviant Art)/Luaxena (Chosen of Eilistraee)
http://sylinde.deviantart.com/#/d2z6e4u
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Brynweir
Senior Scribe

USA
436 Posts

Posted - 31 Jan 2011 :  22:15:26  Show Profile  Send Brynweir an AOL message Send Brynweir a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I've got one. A cantankerous old dragon built the lair over essentially nothing just because she likes the idea of people struggling, fighting, and dying to get in only to find out that the journey was wasted before she kills them


Anyone who likes to read something that's really dark and gritty and completely awesome ought to read The Night Angel Trilogy by Brent Weeks. You can check out a little taste at www.BrentWeeks.com I should probably warn you, though, that it is definitely not PG-13 :-D

He also started a new Trilogy with Black Prism, which may even surpass the Night Angel Trilogy in its awesomeness.

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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader

USA
3747 Posts

Posted - 31 Jan 2011 :  22:19:27  Show Profile  Click to see Alystra Illianniis's MSN Messenger address Send Alystra Illianniis a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Nice. She's a red, right? *snickers*

The Goddess is alive, and magic is afoot.

"Where Science ends, Magic begins" -Spiral, Uncanny X-Men #491

"You idiots! You've captured their STUNT doubles!" -Spaceballs

Lothir's character background/stats: http://forum.candlekeep.com/pop_profile.asp?mode=display&id=5469

My stories:
http://z3.invisionfree.com/Mickeys_Comic_Tavern/index.php?showforum=188

Lothir, courtesy of Sylinde (Deviant Art)/Luaxena (Chosen of Eilistraee)
http://sylinde.deviantart.com/#/d2z6e4u
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Wenin
Senior Scribe

531 Posts

Posted - 31 Jan 2011 :  22:27:48  Show Profile Send Wenin a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Mr_Miscellany
quote:
Originally posted by Wenin

Is this something that ANY dragon is to covet, or could it be something special to a specific dragon?
I was thinking along the lines of any dragon, but if you have a specific dragon in mind, by all means share what you're thinking!


You misunderstood my question. =)

Are you wanting something that any dragon would want, or that "a" dragon would want.

Like my imprisonment idea wouldn't work for "any" dragon, as only the mate would care.

By your response to the suggestions, I'm guessing that any idea that would get "a" dragon to stay put. =)


Ideas:

1. Dragon under a Geas or Curse to guard the location.

2. Dragon could be acting as a "magical seal" to keep a greater evil or good in check. The Dragon must protect himself, as an opposing force wants to kill the dragon to unleash the force.

3. Dragon is guarding "something" (ancient tree, water fountain, earth node) that is used in an epic ritual that results in the death of the Dragon race, or his family line.

Forgotten Realms Cartography For mappers that are wanting to share the work they've done within the Forgotten Realms setting.

Session Reports posted at RPG Geek.
Stem the Tide Takes place in Mistledale.
Dark Curtains - Takes place in the Savage North, starting in Nesmé. I wrapped my campaign into the Hoard of the Dragon Queen, but it takes place in 1372 DR.
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader

USA
3747 Posts

Posted - 31 Jan 2011 :  22:40:42  Show Profile  Click to see Alystra Illianniis's MSN Messenger address Send Alystra Illianniis a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Maybe it's guarding the Tree of Souls? An ancient gold who's an ally of the elves? Or something belonging to another race that it's friends with. Maybe there is a powerful artifact keeping it there, sort of like a magnet.

The Goddess is alive, and magic is afoot.

"Where Science ends, Magic begins" -Spiral, Uncanny X-Men #491

"You idiots! You've captured their STUNT doubles!" -Spaceballs

Lothir's character background/stats: http://forum.candlekeep.com/pop_profile.asp?mode=display&id=5469

My stories:
http://z3.invisionfree.com/Mickeys_Comic_Tavern/index.php?showforum=188

Lothir, courtesy of Sylinde (Deviant Art)/Luaxena (Chosen of Eilistraee)
http://sylinde.deviantart.com/#/d2z6e4u
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Ayrik
Great Reader

Canada
6428 Posts

Posted - 31 Jan 2011 :  23:00:27  Show Profile Send Ayrik a Private Message  Reply with Quote
No doubt there are dragon packrats — they accumulate ridiculous quantities of stuff and just can't bear to get rid of anything. Massive fortifications could just be draconic "trailer park" renovations which expand lair storage capacity. Obviously nobody here has ever had to move stupid objects like pianos.

[/Ayrik]
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader

USA
3747 Posts

Posted - 31 Jan 2011 :  23:05:27  Show Profile  Click to see Alystra Illianniis's MSN Messenger address Send Alystra Illianniis a Private Message  Reply with Quote
LOL!! Dragon hoarders- I saw a class for that! It might have been a template- not sure. In a wotC article, I think.

The Goddess is alive, and magic is afoot.

"Where Science ends, Magic begins" -Spiral, Uncanny X-Men #491

"You idiots! You've captured their STUNT doubles!" -Spaceballs

Lothir's character background/stats: http://forum.candlekeep.com/pop_profile.asp?mode=display&id=5469

My stories:
http://z3.invisionfree.com/Mickeys_Comic_Tavern/index.php?showforum=188

Lothir, courtesy of Sylinde (Deviant Art)/Luaxena (Chosen of Eilistraee)
http://sylinde.deviantart.com/#/d2z6e4u

Edited by - Alystra Illianniis on 31 Jan 2011 23:06:48
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Kentinal
Great Reader

4304 Posts

Posted - 01 Feb 2011 :  00:11:19  Show Profile Send Kentinal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well Kentinal did a peace treaty with dragons that included tribute, the one agreement in that was no dragon control or slaying items would be paid. So indeed a Dragon clearly would have some interest to protecting things like potions of control, orbs of control, weapons of Dragon slaying. If such a collection became large, making it hard to move, it clearly is possible a Dragon would set up defenses of this accumulated hoard of items dangerous to it and its kin. The list of Dragon danger items is far larger then the few I listed. Moving even 100 items could be a problem for a Dragon.

"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon
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Brynweir
Senior Scribe

USA
436 Posts

Posted - 01 Feb 2011 :  00:20:54  Show Profile  Send Brynweir an AOL message Send Brynweir a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Dragon established his hoard when he was younger and smaller... and now he's too big to leave

Sorry. I can't help myself.

Anyone who likes to read something that's really dark and gritty and completely awesome ought to read The Night Angel Trilogy by Brent Weeks. You can check out a little taste at www.BrentWeeks.com I should probably warn you, though, that it is definitely not PG-13 :-D

He also started a new Trilogy with Black Prism, which may even surpass the Night Angel Trilogy in its awesomeness.

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Wenin
Senior Scribe

531 Posts

Posted - 01 Feb 2011 :  01:22:45  Show Profile Send Wenin a Private Message  Reply with Quote
How did the hoard grow then? =)

Forgotten Realms Cartography For mappers that are wanting to share the work they've done within the Forgotten Realms setting.

Session Reports posted at RPG Geek.
Stem the Tide Takes place in Mistledale.
Dark Curtains - Takes place in the Savage North, starting in Nesmé. I wrapped my campaign into the Hoard of the Dragon Queen, but it takes place in 1372 DR.
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Ayrik
Great Reader

Canada
6428 Posts

Posted - 01 Feb 2011 :  01:39:36  Show Profile Send Ayrik a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I've read about a green dracolich who "lairs" inside a gemstone/phylactery mounted on the hilt of a green dragonslaying blade. The consequence is that the dracolich is always led to (recently killed) green dragons, allowing him to claim their hoards and their bodies. I'm not sure if that really qualifies as strange hoarding behaviour.

[/Ayrik]
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Brynweir
Senior Scribe

USA
436 Posts

Posted - 01 Feb 2011 :  02:18:12  Show Profile  Send Brynweir an AOL message Send Brynweir a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Easy - The people who live nearby don't know that he can't leave. They pay tribute in exchange for his good behavior. How much is it worth to not have your kiddies eaten?

Anyone who likes to read something that's really dark and gritty and completely awesome ought to read The Night Angel Trilogy by Brent Weeks. You can check out a little taste at www.BrentWeeks.com I should probably warn you, though, that it is definitely not PG-13 :-D

He also started a new Trilogy with Black Prism, which may even surpass the Night Angel Trilogy in its awesomeness.

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Ayrik
Great Reader

Canada
6428 Posts

Posted - 01 Feb 2011 :  02:37:13  Show Profile Send Ayrik a Private Message  Reply with Quote
"<yawn> Tribute day again ... already?

Oh look, *another* Jewelled Sceptre of Endless Royal Splendour. Just put it on the pile with the rest of them ... move a stack of those Tomes of Infinite Wisdom aside if they're in the way. Careful you don't knock over the platinum chalices. Hey! Don't touch my McHappy Dragon Toy collection, I plan to sell those on dBay. Gold? Dump it over there. Well, okay, dump it somewhere out of the way. Not with the gemstones. No, not on the paintings. A nubile virgin princess? Oh, gee, thanx, she's ... uh, beautiful, and her hair matches my ruby-studded tapestries quite nicely. (Why the hell do these monkeys keep bringing me their whiny princesses?)"

[/Ayrik]
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Fellfire
Master of Realmslore

1944 Posts

Posted - 01 Feb 2011 :  03:04:57  Show Profile Send Fellfire a Private Message  Reply with Quote
"I've read about a green dracolich who "lairs" inside a gemstone/phylactery mounted on the hilt of a green dragonslaying blade. The consequence is that the dracolich is always led to (recently killed) green dragons, allowing him to claim their hoards and their bodies. I'm not sure if that really qualifies as strange hoarding behaviour."

Dretchroyaster, the Monarch Reborn, with his insane dream to turn his undead body into a spelljammer. One of my favorite all time Realms dragons. Detailed fully in the 2e supplement, Cult of the Dragon.

Bah, Sandstone! I thought I'd make Senior Scribe with 100 posts.

Misanthorpe

Love is a lie. Only hate endures. Light is blinding. Only in darkness do we see clearly.

"Oh, you think darkness is your ally? You merely adopted the dark. I was born in it, molded by it. I didn't see the light until I was already a man, by then it was nothing to me but.. blinding. The shadows betray you because they belong to me." - Bane The Dark Knight Rises

Green Dragonscale Dice Bag by Crystalsidyll - check it out


Edited by - Fellfire on 01 Feb 2011 03:07:37
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Ayrik
Great Reader

Canada
6428 Posts

Posted - 01 Feb 2011 :  04:31:06  Show Profile Send Ayrik a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Bah, Sandstone! I thought I'd make Senior Scribe with 100 posts.
15/75/350/1000/2000/10000 posts, I believe. Ye get five golden stars, lots of sly winks from Ed & THO, a custom title, and (I'm hoping) a new lamborghini upon attaining 10K Candleposts. Plus it's easier to frighten the noobs into compliance, they naively think ye're all wise and such.

[/Ayrik]
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
30338 Posts

Posted - 01 Feb 2011 :  05:41:32  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Arik

quote:
Bah, Sandstone! I thought I'd make Senior Scribe with 100 posts.
15/75/350/1000/2000/10000 posts, I believe. Ye get five golden stars, lots of sly winks from Ed & THO, a custom title, and (I'm hoping) a new lamborghini upon attaining 10K Candleposts. Plus it's easier to frighten the noobs into compliance, they naively think ye're all wise and such.



Wait, a Lamborghini?!? I didn't get one of those! I demand a recount!

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Ayrik
Great Reader

Canada
6428 Posts

Posted - 01 Feb 2011 :  08:29:05  Show Profile Send Ayrik a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'll settle for something cheaper, hell, even a Pontiac Solstice, if Candlekeep's run out of Lamborghinis. And that's saying a lot, since GMC (by any name) builds low quality junkcrap - my opinion, of course.

[/Ayrik]
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Hawkins
Great Reader

USA
2130 Posts

Posted - 01 Feb 2011 :  21:00:42  Show Profile  Visit Hawkins's Homepage Send Hawkins a Private Message  Reply with Quote
One of my favorite NPCs that I designed was a LN green dragon who had and Effigy Master (Complete Arcane, pg 30) in her employ. She had had the Effigy Master create an effigy of herself, and then used shapechange to masquerade as a green elf sorcerer. Also, her treasure was actually the books in the library she lived in instead of a traditional treasure.

Errant d20 Designer - My Blog (last updated January 06, 2016)

One, two! One, two! And through and through
The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
He left it dead, and with its head
He went galumphing back. --Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking-Glass

"Mmm, not the darkness," Myrin murmured. "Don't cast it there." --Erik Scott de Bie, Shadowbane

* My character sheets (PFRPG, 3.5, and AE versions; not viewable in Internet Explorer)
* Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Reference Document (PFRPG OGL Rules)
* The Hypertext d20 SRD (3.5 OGL Rules)
* 3.5 D&D Archives

My game design work:
* Heroes of the Jade Oath (PFRPG, conversion; Rite Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 1: Cantrips & Orisons (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 2: 1st-Level Spells (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Martial Arts Guidebook (forthcoming) (PFRPG, designer; Rite Publishing)
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31690 Posts

Posted - 02 Feb 2011 :  00:17:43  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Mr_Miscellany

quote:
Originally posted by HawkinstheDM

Also, her treasure was actually the books in the library she lived in instead of a traditional treasure.
I like this idea a lot. Did you write up anything else about the NPC's lair or the books found therein that you’d be willing to share? Also where it was located (a city or town or tower in the middle of nowhere)?

Could you tell us about the Effigy Master? I’m not familiar with the (Prestige?) Class and don’t have my books in front of me?

That particular class was detailed in Complete Arcane. I think there was a preview on the Wizards website at the time of the book's release. I'll try and find it.

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Hawkins
Great Reader

USA
2130 Posts

Posted - 03 Feb 2011 :  16:34:30  Show Profile  Visit Hawkins's Homepage Send Hawkins a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I will see if I still have the notes saved somewhere. Basically, an effigy is a construct that can be made from almost any base creature. So basically, the green dragon effigy was just a construct body double for anyone who went dragon hunting, while the true dragon pretended to be an elf. She also had a few more mage class attendants in addition to the effigy master, and the library was definitely not a lending library, but with the right credentials you could earn admittance to study there. One of her attendants might have also been her half-green dragon sorcerer daughter, but I don't really remember off the top of my head.

Errant d20 Designer - My Blog (last updated January 06, 2016)

One, two! One, two! And through and through
The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
He left it dead, and with its head
He went galumphing back. --Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking-Glass

"Mmm, not the darkness," Myrin murmured. "Don't cast it there." --Erik Scott de Bie, Shadowbane

* My character sheets (PFRPG, 3.5, and AE versions; not viewable in Internet Explorer)
* Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Reference Document (PFRPG OGL Rules)
* The Hypertext d20 SRD (3.5 OGL Rules)
* 3.5 D&D Archives

My game design work:
* Heroes of the Jade Oath (PFRPG, conversion; Rite Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 1: Cantrips & Orisons (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 2: 1st-Level Spells (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Martial Arts Guidebook (forthcoming) (PFRPG, designer; Rite Publishing)
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