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Nicolai Withander
Master of Realmslore
Denmark
1093 Posts |
 Posted - 26 Jan 2011 : 02:15:38
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Hi...
If we believe the weave to be a giant web, then what would make it unravel? Would Mystra have to be weakened, held or dead? Or could something powerful enough do it evethough she was fine and tending it???
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althen artren
Senior Scribe
USA
780 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jan 2011 : 02:27:39
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WEll, we know that it doesn't take Mystra to tear or rend the Weave.
See Myth Drannor, there are several! large dead magic areas that came
from too much magic being used in a small area, magics battling for
supremecy and tearing open the Mythal. Even the phaerimm Draindoom
causes magic dead areas to happen, the spell uses the Weave to recast
itself. So a 1 level hedge wizard, standing in the wrong place, and
miscasting a spell could cause a wild magic area or dead magic area. Not
that it is common mind you.
Oh the creation of mythallars take strands of the Weave
to form, so tears could happen that way. |
Edited by - althen artren on 26 Jan 2011 02:28:20 |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jan 2011 : 03:24:42
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| I just look at the "God of Magic" as a big spider in control of an already existing web. Dead spider...web is still there; but not tended well. |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jan 2011 : 00:26:40
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Maybe Mystra was an aspect of Lolth.
Or rather, both Lolth and Mystra are aspects of Araunshee.
Ya never know.  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 27 Jan 2011 00:28:33 |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jan 2011 : 03:31:47
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quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
Or Mystra was just an alias of Lolth. Like she did with Moander. Hmm, this could lead to some interesting campaigns!
If Mystra was an alias of Lolth, Lolth's Silence would have had a far more dramatic impact on the Realms. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jan 2011 : 11:42:50
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I can see some form of plot twist of Lolth being Mystra somehow, if worked properly. Lolth's silence would be "that" aspect of Mystra being silent, and perhaps said silence would be how Cyric and Shar were able to plant the seed for Mystra's demise to come. You could say the silence to strengthen one of her aspects resulted in her main form (as goddess of magic) to be weakened, making her vulnerable to attack from Shar and Cyric.
Some suggestions to make it work if its something you would want to roll with. |
Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
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Kno
Senior Scribe
452 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jan 2011 : 18:54:58
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quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden
I just look at the "God of Magic" as a big spider in control of an already existing web. Dead spider...web is still there; but not tended well.
Mystra is the Weave and the spider simultaneously while the Chosen are baby spiders. |
z455t |
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Zireael
Master of Realmslore
Poland
1190 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jan 2011 : 19:35:13
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quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
You know, that could lend itself to all sorts of ideas for Mystra/Lolth conflicts- or Lolth attempting to take control of the Weave after Mystra's death. Or perhaps the (gasp) implication that they are one and the same?!
(gasp) (gasp) (gasp) LOL and :(can't stop laughing) 
Maybe the drow need a deity of magic? |
SiNafay Vrinn, the daughter of Lloth, from Ched Nasad!
http://zireael07.wordpress.com/ |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
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Barastir
Master of Realmslore
Brazil
1600 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jan 2011 : 19:59:24
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And what about Midnight? Or this would be the original Mystra? It would be strange, since, as far as I remember, Mystra was LN, and Lolth CE. Midnight was NG, I think, but she was a mortal...  |
"Goodness is not a natural state, but must be
fought for to be attained and maintained.
Lead by example.
Let your deeds speak your intentions.
Goodness radiated from the heart."
The Paladin's Virtues, excerpt from the "Quentin's Monograph"
(by Ed Greenwood) |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 06 Feb 2011 : 19:12:14
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Well, my own postulations on this were from my own views on the divine: That there is a great big 'blob' of Divinity, from which smaller blobs break-off, and divide, and further sub-divide. There is a finite amount of Divine energy to go around, and that is one of the 'deeper truths' of the universe.
Hence, there was Araushnee and Corellon. Corellon was the God of Magic (amongst the Elves), and Araushnee coveted Corellon's power - that much is canon (from the Evermeet novel). Sometime during pre-history Araushnee's machinations met with failure, and she was cast-out of Faerie, to become a demoness named Lolth.
She was 'lessened' somehow, by Corellon.
Now, in the RW we know that matter and/or energy can neither be created nor destroyed: it can only be transformed from one state to another. That means that Corellon 'did something' with the power he took from Araushnee. Since we know that Corellon gave her the power in the first place (it is somewhat inferred by the novel), the assumption is that he re-absorbed said power.
But what if he didn't? What if the power he loaned her - the power of the God of magic - he kept separate and stored it elsewhere? He could have created another being in-charge of this essence, or perhaps put it into the care of an existing being (in either case, this could have been Lurue).
That means that when the Weave was created post-Sundering, some energy from somewhere was used to infuse the new construct with sentience. This could have been the energy held in trust (probably by Lurue) that started with Corellon and was part of Araushnee at the time.
Picture it - Araushnee was a demi/lesser power amongst the Seldarine, and her area of interest was primarily creativity (she was like an Elven Muse), and more specific she was associated with Weaving. Corellon loved her, and gave her some of his power to raise her up. This power may have been the creativity aspect of his magical portfolio (you can now see where I am going with this), which would have blended well with her own creativity aspect.
When the time came for a sentience for the Weave and a god(dess) of magic for Toril (a world which was the birthplace of the Fey - the Elven forbears), it would make sense to use that essence that was once associated with weaving and creativity.
The fact that it had spent sometime with Araushnee (pre-Lolth), who later became a goddess of webs, and the Weave is a web-like magical field surrounding Realmspace also makes some sense, although only by association. My thinking along these lines is that when Corellon stripped-away much of her divine power, he also took from Araushnee whatever 'good' was left within her.
Ergo, it is possible, if we accept this unlikely scenario, that Corellon was trying to save some of that which he had fallen in love with, and that what happened to Araushnee with Lolth and Mystryl was very similar to what happened with Tyche when she was split into Tymora and Beshaba.
Just a theory, mind you, and nothing I support or believe is what truly happened. Just pointing out that anything is possible in regards to the Divine. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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The Masked Mage
Great Reader
USA
2420 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jan 2013 : 04:50:40
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Well, my own postulations on this were from my own views on the divine: That there is a great big 'blob' of Divinity, from which smaller blobs break-off, and divide, and further sub-divide. There is a finite amount of Divine energy to go around, and that is one of the 'deeper truths' of the universe.
Hence, there was Araushnee and Corellon. Corellon was the God of Magic (amongst the Elves), and Araushnee coveted Corellon's power - that much is canon (from the Evermeet novel). Sometime during pre-history Araushnee's machinations met with failure, and she was cast-out of Faerie, to become a demoness named Lolth.
She was 'lessened' somehow, by Corellon.
Now, in the RW we know that matter and/or energy can neither be created nor destroyed: it can only be transformed from one state to another. That means that Corellon 'did something' with the power he took from Araushnee. Since we know that Corellon gave her the power in the first place (it is somewhat inferred by the novel), the assumption is that he re-absorbed said power.
But what if he didn't? What if the power he loaned her - the power of the God of magic - he kept separate and stored it elsewhere? He could have created another being in-charge of this essence, or perhaps put it into the care of an existing being (in either case, this could have been Lurue).
That means that when the Weave was created post-Sundering, some energy from somewhere was used to infuse the new construct with sentience. This could have been the energy held in trust (probably by Lurue) that started with Corellon and was part of Araushnee at the time.
Picture it - Araushnee was a demi/lesser power amongst the Seldarine, and her area of interest was primarily creativity (she was like an Elven Muse), and more specific she was associated with Weaving. Corellon loved her, and gave her some of his power to raise her up. This power may have been the creativity aspect of his magical portfolio (you can now see where I am going with this), which would have blended well with her own creativity aspect.
When the time came for a sentience for the Weave and a god(dess) of magic for Toril (a world which was the birthplace of the Fey - the Elven forbears), it would make sense to use that essence that was once associated with weaving and creativity.
The fact that it had spent sometime with Araushnee (pre-Lolth), who later became a goddess of webs, and the Weave is a web-like magical field surrounding Realmspace also makes some sense, although only by association. My thinking along these lines is that when Corellon stripped-away much of her divine power, he also took from Araushnee whatever 'good' was left within her.
Ergo, it is possible, if we accept this unlikely scenario, that Corellon was trying to save some of that which he had fallen in love with, and that what happened to Araushnee with Lolth and Mystryl was very similar to what happened with Tyche when she was split into Tymora and Beshaba.
Just a theory, mind you, and nothing I support or believe is what truly happened. Just pointing out that anything is possible in regards to the Divine.
I'd say if you're keen on the idea of Corellon needing to direct her energy somewhere, a good candidate would be her replacement three-part goddess. Her power became theirs, but only when they are the one god, not the three. |
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CorellonsDevout
Great Reader
USA
2708 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jan 2013 : 23:55:13
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Angharradh (sp?) was created a little before Araushnee was banished. In fact, if I remember correctly, she helped banish her. I have not yet read all the novels falling under the "Rise of the Underdark" event, but Lolth trying to take over the Weave would suggest she wasn't an aspect of Mystra. Or what it? Personally, I don't like it, but I guess, if she was indeed an aspect of Mystra, and only the "human" aspect of Mystra died because that is the one Cyric and Shar targeted, then the "drow" part would remain.
When 4e revealed some deities were just aspects of others, I was kind of disappointed. I liked Hanali and Sune being separate. But it begs the question of why only -some- of the deities were aspects of each other. I wouldn't like it, but why aren't all of the deities aspects of one another? Maybe it is because some deities represent too much to have multiple aspects (Corellon represents a lot of attributes of elven culture, for example)? But, perhaps this is a weak argument, because each deity represents more than just arts/war/magic, etc. Selune and Sehanine are aspects of each other, so wouldn't Eilistraee be an aspect as well? No, she is a younger goddess (and she has some different ideologies). But you could argue age doesn't matter, if aspects can be created. So would Vhaeraun be an aspect of Mask? He died before V, but again, if we go with the idea of aspects coming and going, I suppose it makes sense. So...would Corellon than be an aspect of Lathander/Amanautaur? I love Corellon (obviously), and I'm fond of Lathander, but I like them separate.
So if Lolth is a different aspect of Mystra, then would the Spellplague should have happened at all? Right now, the Weave is a cobweb because no "spider" is in it, but it is still there, and the idea of RotU was Lolth trying to stake a claim to it. It would make more sense if she was a separate deity, but I guess cannot rule out the possibility of another aspect of Mystra wanted to gain control of the Weave. Like Markustay said, anything is possible in regards to the Divine.
Annnnd I'm going in circles. |
Sweet water and light laughter |
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The Weave
