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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
 Posted - 09 Sep 2011 : 22:12:07
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Ohhh Boy.... 
quote:
Originally posted by Rhewtani
Wow. I was born in '79.
Which is part of the secret.... you need to talk to your mother. 
Oh... and and stay away from that Wardrobe. 
quote:
Originally posted by Therise
It's said that if you talk too much about Larloch, he will hear you... and come to claim you.
Only if you repeat his name three times while staring at your reflection in a scrying pool.  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 09 Sep 2011 22:13:12 |
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Malcolm
Learned Scribe
242 Posts |
Posted - 09 Sep 2011 : 22:13:40
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Yes, an aptly-named poster. "Troll King," indeed.
Exploring human relationships between characters who have lived for centuries, and who have been described as lonely and insane might be weird, but "weird" is what fantasy fiction is all about. "Gross" depends on your own moral standards. Some folks find broccoli gross.
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Broken Helm
Learned Scribe
USA
108 Posts |
Posted - 09 Sep 2011 : 22:17:21
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Well, well.
Troll King II quoth: "Isn't that weird and gross? Also, what inspired you to explore these weird and gross themes with otherwise heroic character?"
Well, I'm going to do what my university profs used to do: answer "No" to your first question, and then ask you why you want to force everyone to accept your personal opinion as "fact" when posing your second question.
Just askin.'
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 09 Sep 2011 : 22:21:26
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| Some posts have been removed from this thread. There's no need to discuss them further. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Sage of Stars
Seeker
USA
59 Posts |
Posted - 09 Sep 2011 : 22:28:23
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Heh. Well said, Broken Helm.
Troll King, Ed has never said that Mystra was a "drooling" anything. Which makes the answer to your first question "No."
As for your second, Elminster very briefly looked after several of the young tween and teen Sisters. He was, yes, in essence, a father figure to them. The Simbul was not one of them, as canon fiction (read the flashbacks in ELMINSTER IN HELL) makes clear. So El is not having sex with his own daughter, in any sense or by any stretch.
Centuries later, Elminster and Storm worked together in the Harpers...for centuries, outliving entire countries, not just people. And seeing El and The Simbul in love leaves Storm torn, because she discovers she loves Elminster, too, deeper than just as a friend. and doesn't dare show it, for fear of ruining what El and Alassra share.
THAT'S "weird and gross"? I'd say it's human.
Far from weird and gross, I find exploring what age-old survivors do and think fascinating. If you don't like such themes, perhaps Ed's fiction isn't for you. Or better yet, fantasy (including such classics as Arthurian fiction, wherein Queen Guinevre makes it with both King Arthur and Lancelot) in general isn't for you.
Just out of curitosity, what's your definition of "heroic"? (Being as you posted "otherwise heroic"?) |
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Sage of Stars
Seeker
USA
59 Posts |
Posted - 09 Sep 2011 : 22:30:08
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Sorry, Wooly. Was composing mine when you acted.
Take mine as silenced. |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3285 Posts |
Posted - 09 Sep 2011 : 23:16:28
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So you have been banned 8 times already, in one(1) day?
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"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3285 Posts |
Posted - 09 Sep 2011 : 23:24:36
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Some "troll rut"?
Sorry... |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
Edited by - Brimstone on 09 Sep 2011 23:25:04 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 10 Sep 2011 : 02:09:03
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Some posts have been removed from this thread. There's no need to discuss them further.
And I'd just like to apologise to Ed and all our resident scribes, on behalf of the other Mods and Admin staff here at Candlekeep for the disruptive influence these posts have been having on the usually more comfortable atmosphere we've tried to establish.
Rest assured, measures are now in place to limit even further, the source of these current problems. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 10 Sep 2011 02:11:56 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 10 Sep 2011 : 02:11:17
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Okay, let's try to keep the focus of Ed's scroll away from the current problems caused by certain other disruptive scribes.
Besides, it's making my task of compiling the Great Bearded One's responses somewhat more difficult. And with the accomplishments I've been achieving by tackling stuff on my "To-Do" list of late, I'm assuming we all don't want to see me distracted again. Right? |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 10 Sep 2011 02:31:07 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 10 Sep 2011 : 02:23:11
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
And with the accomplishments I've been achieving by tackling stuff on my "To-Do" list of late, I'm amusing we all don't want to see me distracted again. Right?
We can safely amuse that. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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althen artren
Senior Scribe
USA
780 Posts |
Posted - 10 Sep 2011 : 02:26:25
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I never amuse anything Sage.
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 10 Sep 2011 : 02:32:02
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
And with the accomplishments I've been achieving by tackling stuff on my "To-Do" list of late, I'm amusing we all don't want to see me distracted again. Right?
We can safely amuse that.
And my efforts lasted about twelve minutes.
Personal-best.  |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 10 Sep 2011 : 05:19:52
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
And with the accomplishments I've been achieving by tackling stuff on my "To-Do" list of late, I'm amusing we all don't want to see me distracted again. Right?
We can safely amuse that.
Seconded! |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 10 Sep 2011 : 20:23:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Troll King IX
There seems to be a problem, my questions keep disappearing.
The problem is that you keep posting it. How many times do we have to delete your posts and ban you before you realize we're not going to allow your openly antagonistic and offensive posts? |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 11 Sep 2011 : 01:39:13
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Troll King IX
There seems to be a problem, my questions keep disappearing.
The problem is that you keep posting it. How many times do we have to delete your posts and ban you before you realize we're not going to allow your openly antagonistic and offensive posts?
That, and the fact that he willingly chooses to disregard both the policy of the site's Code of Conduct, and the sensibilities/considerations of his fellow posters.
Apparently, this Troll King cares nothing for the fact that younglings might also be reading the perverse material he seeks to post here at Candlekeep. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 11 Sep 2011 : 02:16:45
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Hi Ed and THO!
I am not really fond of using gods in my fiction, but certain circumstances call for it. My gods have names that mortals know, and they have real names as well which only a very few beings have knowledge of... Do the gods of Toril have names other than what the mortals know? |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 11 Sep 2011 : 04:15:08
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
Hi Ed and THO!
I am not really fond of using gods in my fiction, but certain circumstances call for it. My gods have names that mortals know, and they have real names as well which only a very few beings have knowledge of... Do the gods of Toril have names other than what the mortals know?
Indeed! Bane's real name is Ethel. That's why he's such a jerk, he's had to live with that name for all of these years. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Kajehase
Great Reader
Sweden
2104 Posts |
Posted - 11 Sep 2011 : 04:26:08
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
Hi Ed and THO!
I am not really fond of using gods in my fiction, but certain circumstances call for it. My gods have names that mortals know, and they have real names as well which only a very few beings have knowledge of... Do the gods of Toril have names other than what the mortals know?
Indeed! Bane's real name is Ethel. That's why he's such a jerk, he's had to live with that name for all of these years.
Are you sure it's not Sue you're thinking of? |
There is a rumour going around that I have found god. I think is unlikely because I have enough difficulty finding my keys, and there is empirical evidence that they exist.
Terry Pratchett |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 11 Sep 2011 : 04:33:43
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If I were Bane, I might feel and act the same. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 11 Sep 2011 : 06:21:15
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You know, it's almost comforting for me to remind folks that we're here to discuss Ed-lore, and not to get unintentionally side-tracked. It makes for a return to normalcy, that's been somewhat absent here of late.
Anyway, let's get back on track, eh?  |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 11 Sep 2011 : 07:23:59
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Ed/THO:
Follow-up question: Does knowledge of their names grants someone certain privileges or advantage [i.e. binding a god; ensuring the god answers immediately when called by his/her real name]? |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7968 Posts |
Posted - 11 Sep 2011 : 11:40:03
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Knowledge of a deity's true name ... I would think if anything it would bind the mortal into the deity's service. Mortals cannot (individually) harm beings of such higher order in any way. Although they might inflict great harm indeed if they revealed that true name (voluntarily or otherwise) to other beings of divine stature. The named deity might be well aware of this fact and install whatever measures are necessary to prevent dissemination of this truth.
All this assumes that the true name of a deity is even comprehensible or pronounceable by a mortal. Perhaps a mortal mind simply cannot contain such a thing at all, or perhaps the knowledge can be understood but is impossible to communicate.
Finally, I suggest that the true names of deities might in fact be well known indeed, a sort of "open secret" everywhere they are present. It could be argued that dedicating your life to them, studying their holy writings, learning their truths, following their precepts, and becoming a priest in their service is a form of binding them (and the power they command) to your service. This might seem like an unbalanced sort of arrangement or even a sort of mutual double-binding, but gods possess vastly superior power and are not so easily bound as any mere fiend or elemental. |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 11 Sep 2011 11:45:19 |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 11 Sep 2011 : 12:32:51
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I tend to concur that their real names might [or should be] impossible for mere mortals to utter, no matter how powerful the said mortals become. [Still waiting for Ed's reply...] |
Every beginning has an end. |
Edited by - Dennis on 11 Sep 2011 12:44:33 |
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Azuth
Senior Scribe
USA
404 Posts |
Posted - 11 Sep 2011 : 15:52:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
I tend to concur that their real names might [or should be] impossible for mere mortals to utter, no matter how powerful the said mortals become. [Still waiting for Ed's reply...]
Cyrix knew Midnight's real name and it didn't seem to do him much good. I think the first question to Ed is if Gods have true names in the same manner as devils and then if they have power-granting properties. |
Azuth, the First Magister
Lord of All Spells
The greatest expression of creativity is through Art.
Offense can never be given, only taken. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 11 Sep 2011 : 16:41:17
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
You know, it's almost comforting for me to remind folks that we're here to discuss Ed-lore, and not to get unintentionally side-tracked. It makes for a return to normalcy, that's been somewhat absent here of late.
Anyway, let's get back on track, eh?
Can we get intentionally side-tracked, then? |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 11 Sep 2011 : 17:07:29
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I just had a thought... When Mystryl died, she dumped her power into a human girl.
Mystra 1.0 dumped a lot of her power into a human girl, too, before Midnight came along and got the rest of that power.
We also know that Mystra 1.0 possessed a mortal woman and had a slew of daughters with her, daughters that contained part of Mystra's essence...
What if Mystryl did the same thing? It's possible that the nameless girl who became Mystra was either a daughter of or a descendant of Mystryl. For that matter, a lot of magical anamolies could be explained that way -- maybe all of the non-Seven Chosen are descendants of Mystryl. Maybe some other odd cases, like wild talents, incantatrices, and even spellfire wielders are all descendants of Mystryl.
I might be wrong, but it's an interesting idea, thinks I. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 11 Sep 2011 : 17:21:05
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In some of my 'deep secrets' musings in this thread and others, I have had some indication by 'persons in the know' (can't remember the specifics... probably Ed via THO) that the artifact that is Mystra requires some sort of mortal connection. Exactly why and and how deep that connection must be has never been discussed, because it falls into that 'deep secrets' category. I am not sure if it has anything to do with her initial creation, or some rule imposed upon her later by Ao (or even something else).
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Indeed! Bane's real name is Ethel. That's why he's such a jerk, he's had to live with that name for all of these years.
Whats even worse is that Myrkul's other name is Fred. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
Posted - 11 Sep 2011 : 17:22:56
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Hi again, all.
I put Dennis's question about deity names (and the comments by Ayrik and Azuth and Dennis's followup query) to Ed, and he sent me this:
I'm not real fond of using deities directly in fiction, either, but TSR rushed to do so the moment the Realms saw print as a product line, and various authors have been doing so, and editors urging me to do so, ever since . . . so it seems a lot of readers want to see gods onstage, and this IS a service industry, so . . . :}
Yes, the deities of the Realms have "true," somewhat-secret names. I created them that way before there was a D&D game, and of course the early editions of D&D and AD&D had "truename" as a spell and a concept, both of which remain in Realmslore (as per the Realms agreement: changing a game rule, or edition, DOESN'T change "what happened already" [lore, history] in the Realms setting, though it may change how we see it/our understanding of what was previously reported).
Knowing a deity's truename gives you the power to instantly attract the deity's attention. In some very rare cases, in conjunction with you possessing particular artifacts ("the Univeral Nullifier, in the hands of a mortal!") and/or doing particular deeds/rituals ("Yes, Zeus, I'm burning your toenails in the Flame of Truth! Bwoohahahahah!") it gives you a limited measure of power over the deity or the ability to send the deity away/get them to honour a pre-existing pact or informal agreement.
Dennis, this doesn't mean they're compelled to answer, just that they've noticed the utterer of their name (among the ceaseless chorus of all worshippers uttering their various names, all the time). They may well choose to manifest, or speak, or send visions or dreams. Nor (except for the rare instances I've alluded to, above) does it give a mortal any "binding" of or over the god.
Yes, Ayrik, attentive thoughtful devotion to, and active worship of, the god leads a devout mortal ever-closer, over time, to "knowing" the true name of the deity (and knowing the deity's true nature and character, along with the name, which is the way an overwhelmed mortal mind manages to focus, to express and concentrate all they know of a deity's nature).
Now, you might well be able to convince me that someone who knows ALL the names a deity has ever been known by (a la Sir Arthur's classic NINE BILLION NAMES OF GOD) might gain some measure of control over the god . . .
But no, deities are essentially different in this respect from devils and demons, in which a Prime Material Plane summoner (who doesn't screw up!) can "control" such a creature for a certain time or number of acts.
Warning: press me for more details, and you'll be in NDA territory. ;}
So saith Ed. Who knows some things that lie ahead for all Realms readers and gamers. And of course is bound to silence. Guess someone knew his truename, had the right artifacts, and did the right rituals.
love to all,
THO |
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Questions for Ed Greenwood (2011)
Topic Locked
