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Jakuta Khan
Senior Scribe

496 Posts

Posted - 21 Mar 2011 :  11:45:23  Show Profile Send Jakuta Khan a Private Message
Hello again!

As the whole topic on goblinoids seems to take more and more of my brain, lots of new questions pour up while going through the realms.

Here I have for today two questions:

1. Is it possible to have any information on the creation / origins of the Goblinoid Races, mainly Goblin, Hobgoblin and Bugbear in the forgotten realms?

2. The hobgoblins of the Giantspire Mountains are a good example of what happens when they act too openly. Now, what is keeping my mind busy, the hobgoblin Kingdom in these mountains is / was said to be led by a succubus, who onfluences their king.
In 1095-97 the attacks of hobgoblin hordes of this kingdom led to the foundation of todays impiltur.
Now, is this Kingdom still in existance or was it eradicated by the humans, and if it still exists, how ( just briefly) is it to be considered a danger for the surrounding lands?
And is the succubus still in charge, or are the hobgoblins now ruling themselves, and this eventually the reason for their more "silent" behaviour?

Thank you in advance for answering - NO matter when it willbe, this time I am going to be patient - promised :)

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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore

5037 Posts

Posted - 21 Mar 2011 :  14:51:12  Show Profile  Visit The Hooded One's Homepage Send The Hooded One a Private Message
Hi again, all.
CylverSaber, Ed's latest e-mail contains this reply to you:

Although my Netheril notes contained mentions of the archwizards angering the gods by repudiating them (gods are for superstitious weaklings; WE have the power to BE gods, and so will have no gods!), the Karsus story was not my invention.
It's my opinion that Netheril wasn't detailed earlier purely because of the design approach of the time, which was to delve into history only as it was necessary to explain ruins or dungeons or lost/buried magic or whatever "at hand." An unspecified "lost Netheril" remains mysterious and romantic - - and a catch-all that a DM can use to explain the presence of anything from laser rifles and floating robots to genetically-engineered living dragons and dinosaurs (as long as Netheril itself remains vague).
And Netheril always WAS a land-based empire: the "Low Netherese" went right on farming and hunting in the forests beneath the soaring towers and later floating castles and cities of the archwizards, just as they'd always done. Being exploited/enslaved by the powerful mages, just as had always happened. The land base became less important once those floating cities became mobile, but it was always there - - and because almost all of the archwizards had neither the interest nor the developed magic to grow lots of their own food, always necessary.


So saith Ed. The First Lord of Realmslore.
love,
THO
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore

5037 Posts

Posted - 21 Mar 2011 :  14:59:43  Show Profile  Visit The Hooded One's Homepage Send The Hooded One a Private Message
Hi again, all.
Jakuta Khan, your most recent questions have gone off to Ed, and he'll get to them. Promise.
As for the first one: "Is it possible to have any information on the creation / origins of the Goblinoid Races, mainly Goblin, Hobgoblin and Bugbear in the forgotten realms?"
I can tell you right now that although the answer is "yes," the slightly longer answer is going to be something along the lines of:
The origins of the goblinkin and other humanoid races are always going to be "shadowy, too much truth being lost in the mists of passing time." Like a lot of the early doings and rises of gods, information is scanty and suspect, with no trustworthy sources, and a lot of conjecture and wholly fictional shaman and priest tales commenting on the matter.
(In other words, we're never going to be certain about such things, because proper, widely-accepted records were never made, even the gods tell lies, and just too much time has passed. It's like asking for the precise location where the first horsetail fern gew, in our real world; there's no one alive today who was there to see, back then, and thousands (perhaps millions) of years have passed.
I know this is going to be the general tenor of Ed's answer because I'm drawing on several discussions with him, some overheard talks between Ed and TSR designers back in the day, and Ed's notes (that "shadowy" quote up there is Ed writing, from those notes).
However, it's almost always worthwhile asking such questions, and seeing what Ed can and will say; it usually adds something interesting to collective Realmslore.
love,
THO
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore

5037 Posts

Posted - 21 Mar 2011 :  15:13:33  Show Profile  Visit The Hooded One's Homepage Send The Hooded One a Private Message
And hello again!
tradwitch1313, re. this from your recent questions: "Where did Ed (if he did) get his ideas for Sun and Moon Elves . . ."
Ed of course will have to furnish proper answers for you, but I can confirm that Sun (also known as "Gold") and Moon (also known as "Silver") elves were in Ed's Realms before the D&D game came along.
In Ed's original conception, gold elves were powerful, aloof, shunned the company of humans (and other races), were wealthy and magically powerful, used fortifications, and worked against human expansion. Moon elves lived more simply ("closer to the land"), tended to travel more, and had lots more to do with other races on a daily basis. Moon elves tended to be more independent, openly merry (or otherwise emotional), and whimsical. They loved trees and admired adventurers, and so inevitably had more contact with non-elves. They were also less "clannish" (and a lot less proud) than gold elves. A stereotypical gold elf believed in the superiority of his race over others; a stereotypical silver elf thought the very notion of inherent superiority was silly.
Inevitably, in an average D&D game, PCs would be more likely to come into contact with moon/silver elves.
love,
THO
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Jakuta Khan
Senior Scribe

496 Posts

Posted - 21 Mar 2011 :  15:22:49  Show Profile Send Jakuta Khan a Private Message
Hi THO,

thank you for this !!

Ok maybe I formulated it wrong, I am interested in either the creation myths of the goblinoids themselves, and / or, when the other races have the first records about the goblinoid races appearing.

creation is always mythical, I know, but when i hear that othea, after signing peace with the dragons, recognized goblinoid races as upcoming already, it might be interesting to get more information about this :)
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore

5037 Posts

Posted - 21 Mar 2011 :  19:05:16  Show Profile  Visit The Hooded One's Homepage Send The Hooded One a Private Message
Hi again, all.
Markustay, I'm away from my old MC binders right now, and relying on my own notes (not checking with Ed), but as near as I can determine, here are the Ed-created (or adapted to the D&D game from real-world myth, legend, and heraldry) monsters in the two Realms MC appendices (there are other Ed monsters scattered through the other MCs, too):
[all of the MC entries are TSR staff rewrites of Ed's originals]
MC3:

Ascallion
Asperii
Beholder-kin (Gauth)
Belabra (Tangler)
Bhaergala
Bichir (Lungfish, Giant)
Burbur
Claw, Crawling
Darkenbeast (TSR stafferís writeup of Edís ďDark Horrors,Ē which were in the original MS of SPELLFIRE)
Dracolich
Firestar
Maedar
Rhaumbusun (Ed rewrite of a monster created by one of his players, Victor Selby)
Sull
Thylacine
Vurgens
Web, Living

MC11:

Alguduir
Bat, Deep (Azmyth, Night Hunter, Sinister, Werebat)
Beguiler
Cantobele
Dragon, Deep
Firetail
Gaund
Hamadryad
Naga, Dark
Orpsu

. . . and I THINK that's it. I may have missed some, and will check with Ed for you when I can.
love,
THO
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Saer Cormaeril
Learned Scribe

124 Posts

Posted - 21 Mar 2011 :  19:21:11  Show Profile Send Saer Cormaeril a Private Message
Hi, THO and Ed!

Two Realmslore queries for you:

What is the low-end of the age range for Cormyrean noblewomen to marry? Also, I understand that a character by the name of 'Brace Cormaeril' has appeared in a published Realms source. Which source, and could you tell us more about him?

Brace Cormaeril
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CylverSaber
Learned Scribe

76 Posts

Posted - 21 Mar 2011 :  19:57:37  Show Profile  Visit CylverSaber's Homepage Send CylverSaber a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One

Hi again, all.
CylverSaber, Ed's latest e-mail contains this reply to you:

Although my Netheril notes contained mentions of the archwizards angering the gods by repudiating them (gods are for superstitious weaklings; WE have the power to BE gods, and so will have no gods!), the Karsus story was not my invention.

Ah, I had no idea! So was your original conception of the "Fall of Netheril" simply a gradual decay at the hands of the phaerimm and their own arrogance, rather than an apocalyptic event as we saw with Karsus' Folly?
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AryalůmŽ
Senior Scribe

USA
666 Posts

Posted - 22 Mar 2011 :  00:14:16  Show Profile Send AryalůmŽ a Private Message
A few questions I pose:
What can Ed tell us about Kiaransalee's early life on Threnody? And what was Threnody like?

Who was the ruling family in Myth Drannor?

Why are the Knights of Myth Drannor called that even though they are from Cormyr?
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore

5037 Posts

Posted - 22 Mar 2011 :  01:03:58  Show Profile  Visit The Hooded One's Homepage Send The Hooded One a Private Message
Hi again, all.
Saer Cormaeril, I'll leave answers about specific members of the Cormaeril family who appear in canon (like Beliard, Brace, et al) to Ed, but re. this one: "What is the low-end of the age range for Cormyrean noblewomen to marry?" I can provide an answer:
The low end would be 2 days old, the marriage obviously being arranged by noble parents. There are many instances of marriage in infancy and childhood, but I THINK the youngest female noble to marry of her own will (against the wishes of her sole surviving parent) was thirteen. Again, we'll have to check with Ed to be sure.
(BTW, both this topic and Brace have been discussed before, in earlier years of this thread.)
love,
THO
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore

5037 Posts

Posted - 22 Mar 2011 :  01:07:36  Show Profile  Visit The Hooded One's Homepage Send The Hooded One a Private Message
CylverSaber, Ed's original concept of Netheril had a decline into decadence and loss of any sense of nationhood (each archwizard considering himself supreme, not beholden to his fellows, and viewing the Low Netherese as not citizens at all), but violent strife of some sort (possibly a war among archwizards, rather than the all-too-frequent feuds between just two archwizards) occurring. Otherwise, there'd have been no diaspora, but Ed's invented history postulated SOME sort of conflict to end up with scattered Netherese and crashed sky-cities.
love,
THO
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CylverSaber
Learned Scribe

76 Posts

Posted - 22 Mar 2011 :  01:14:43  Show Profile  Visit CylverSaber's Homepage Send CylverSaber a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One

CylverSaber, Ed's original concept of Netheril had a decline into decadence and loss of any sense of nationhood (each archwizard considering himself supreme, not beholden to his fellows, and viewing the Low Netherese as not citizens at all), but violent strife of some sort (possibly a war among archwizards, rather than the all-too-frequent feuds between just two archwizards) occurring. Otherwise, there'd have been no diaspora, but Ed's invented history postulated SOME sort of conflict to end up with scattered Netherese and crashed sky-cities.
love,
THO


Very interesting. I would love to see a novel from Ed covering this period eventually.
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore

5037 Posts

Posted - 22 Mar 2011 :  01:16:42  Show Profile  Visit The Hooded One's Homepage Send The Hooded One a Private Message
tradwitch1313, re. these questions: "Who was the ruling family in Myth Drannor?" and "Why are the Knights of Myth Drannor called that even though they are from Cormyr?"
. . . I must answer your first question with a question of my own: When, exactly, in Myth Drannor's history? (And are you familiar with that history, as laid out in detail by Steven Schend in canon 2e Realms products?)
As for your second question: the Knights moved to Shadowdale from Cormyr (see Ed's Knights trilogy for why). After they tired of ruling there (as opposed to being adventurers), they gave the lordship of the dale their junior member Mourngrym and dedicated themselves to preventing "the wrong sort of folk" (demons and devils) from overrunning Myth Drannor (by closing gates therein), and then preventing "the wrong sort of folk" plundering the ruins in the "gold rush to gain elven magic and wealth" that followed. All of this is outlined or illustrated in published Realms products (see Ed's novel Spellfire for a glimpse of how dangerous the ruins were, or his boxed set the Ruins of Myth Drannor for what it was like to go adventuring there; some earlier adventures mention the closing of the gates [which I roleplayed through, with Ed as DM, and so had a part in "building history"]. The Knights gave themselves their title, to signify their dedication to guarding Myth Drannor (from rapacious plunderers from Zhentil Keep, Sembia, Hillsfar, and even Red Wizards and Cult of the Dragon agents, not to mention various mercenary adventurer bands) until the elves returned.
That's the short version, anyway.
love,
THO
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Eldacar
Learned Scribe

254 Posts

Posted - 22 Mar 2011 :  02:17:11  Show Profile  Visit Eldacar's Homepage  Click to see Eldacar's MSN Messenger address Send Eldacar a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One

Hi again, all.
Eldacar, the Lord subplot hasn't advanced much (beyond Knights eliminating seven Lords as suspects; we eliminated one of them "for good" before realizing that the REAL villain was framing his rivals in hopes we'd do just that), so Ed won't say another word about it. Yet.


Oh well, I'll wait then.

In the meantime, I was reading through my copies of Dragon again, and in #343 I found the (I think, anyway) interesting Tome Dragons, supposedly the premier spellcasters among dragonkind. I don't recall seeing any information on them spring up in any sourcebooks, and I'm fairly sure they were just created for Dragon Magazine. However, would Ed be able to say anything about whether they exist in the Realms or were placed in it following their creation, and if they do/were, some of the more notable names among them (and their lairs)?

"It always ends. That's what gives it value." ~Death of the Endless
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AryalůmŽ
Senior Scribe

USA
666 Posts

Posted - 22 Mar 2011 :  02:51:53  Show Profile Send AryalůmŽ a Private Message
Thank you THO!!!
For my Myth Drannor royalty question, I guess all of them. I assumed one family ruled, did the Durothils ever rule?possible for Ed to answer it? Or are there NDAs covering her amd Threnody? Or should I ask someone who could answer it better?
For my Kiaransalee question, is it
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BlackAce
Learned Scribe

United Kingdom
337 Posts

Posted - 22 Mar 2011 :  03:13:38  Show Profile Send BlackAce a Private Message
The internet gremlins appear to have eaten my condolence message so i'll repost it. My deepest condolences to Ed and the rest of Mike's family and friends. Mike might be gone in flesh but he's with you all in spirit. Best wishes.

The best backstories are longer than a sentence and shorter than a page.
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AryalůmŽ
Senior Scribe

USA
666 Posts

Posted - 22 Mar 2011 :  22:01:34  Show Profile Send AryalůmŽ a Private Message
Oh ad my question Iwas asking if it could be answerex wasa out the early lifeof Kiaransalee and Threnody :)
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader

USA
3747 Posts

Posted - 23 Mar 2011 :  02:35:10  Show Profile  Click to see Alystra Illianniis's MSN Messenger address Send Alystra Illianniis a Private Message
I'd be more interested in the life of Zinzerrena and who exactly created her. Does Ed know whose idea she was, and whether she's ever been in the Realms?

The Goddess is alive, and magic is afoot.

"Where Science ends, Magic begins" -Spiral, Uncanny X-Men #491

"You idiots! You've captured their STUNT doubles!" -Spaceballs

Lothir's character background/stats: http://forum.candlekeep.com/pop_profile.asp?mode=display&id=5469

My stories:
http://z3.invisionfree.com/Mickeys_Comic_Tavern/index.php?showforum=188

Lothir, courtesy of Sylinde (Deviant Art)/Luaxena (Chosen of Eilistraee)
http://sylinde.deviantart.com/#/d2z6e4u
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
13458 Posts

Posted - 23 Mar 2011 :  07:29:58  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message
Thank you for that answer, THO.

@Tradwitch - the Knights of Myth Drannor series go into why they are called that, in some detail (basically, the name they wanted was taken, so they went with something that sounded 'epic' instead).

I forget what name they wanted (something to do with their hometown in Cormyr), but I recall them having to think of a name rather quickly because they were 'gifted' their charter by Azoun himself, and the charter had to have a name for their company (and you DON'T keep Kings waiting).

Getting back to my 'deeper truths' pondering.....

New Question: I was looking through the 2e Player's Guide to the Forgotten Realms, and came across some interesting info regarding the most recent tearfall in the northeast (NOT the one caused by the Sojournor) - how much of that tale (the entire sourcebook is one big story) came directly from Ed's notes?

The info (more like 'a vision') about the Battle of Bones was particularly intriguing.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 23 Mar 2011 07:35:49
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Eldacar
Learned Scribe

254 Posts

Posted - 23 Mar 2011 :  12:32:51  Show Profile  Visit Eldacar's Homepage  Click to see Eldacar's MSN Messenger address Send Eldacar a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

I forget what name they wanted (something to do with their hometown in Cormyr), but I recall them having to think of a name rather quickly because they were 'gifted' their charter by Azoun himself, and the charter had to have a name for their company (and you DON'T keep Kings waiting).

As I recall, they wanted to be the Swords of Espar. The name was already taken, so they were the "Swords of Eveningstar" instead. After at least one foray into the Haunted Halls and a host of associated adventures (which, reading them, are mostly out of the frying pan and into the fire, out of the fire and into the frying pan again, and then back into the fire for round two), they wound up receiving lordship of Shadowdale in the form of the Pendant of Ashaba and were re-christened the Knights of Myth Drannor (you have to be knights of a place, sometimes a legendary one, and as I recall a Zhentarim wraith-spirit-mage was possessing another at the time and came up with the name).

Which somewhat leads me to another question: has anybody ever successfully created a fake Pendant? I would have imagined that for a wizard of enough skill, it would be at least possible to accomplish. Or does the Pendant have certain markings and "style" to its enchantment that can't be duplicated (or at least are of surpassing difficulty to re-create) by "modern" wizards?

"It always ends. That's what gives it value." ~Death of the Endless
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore

5037 Posts

Posted - 23 Mar 2011 :  14:11:34  Show Profile  Visit The Hooded One's Homepage Send The Hooded One a Private Message
Hi again, all.
Markustay, re. this: "I was looking through the 2e Player's Guide to the Forgotten Realms, and came across some interesting info regarding the most recent tearfall in the northeast (NOT the one caused by the Sojournor) - how much of that tale (the entire sourcebook is one big story) came directly from Ed's notes?"
The answer is: all of it.

(Giving everyone a hint of what a delight it is to have Ed as a DM. In his hands, the Realms are ALIVE around you.)
love,
THO
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore

5037 Posts

Posted - 23 Mar 2011 :  14:14:46  Show Profile  Visit The Hooded One's Homepage Send The Hooded One a Private Message
And hello again.
Jakuta Khan, Ed promises you some creation myths when he can get to them. He's busy all this week (funeral today, day job and evening library board meeting tomorrow, med appointments and then starring [if that's the right word] at a "meet the author night" at the Colborne Legion on Friday, then day job again on Saturday), and so can't delve into in-depth Realmslore right away. However, he'll keep answering what he can, throughout.
love,
THO
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Jakuta Khan
Senior Scribe

496 Posts

Posted - 23 Mar 2011 :  14:23:19  Show Profile Send Jakuta Khan a Private Message
Dear THO,

absolutely understandable, and again i feel a bit guilty that he apologizes. - On the other side, this only shows greatness from his side.
shame on me ;)

Waiting more than patiently.

Best regards
Jakuta Khan
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Veraka
Acolyte

USA
4 Posts

Posted - 23 Mar 2011 :  22:08:46  Show Profile  Visit Veraka's Homepage  Send Veraka a Yahoo! Message Send Veraka a Private Message
Hi all, aside from my previous question to Ed, wherever it went <looks around, failing to find wording jargon of FR lore and failing miserably> I had another question for Ed, or whoever might have knowledge of it. I'm looking into the Divine Crusader prestige class, and noted that those who are a Crusader are given spells that are under one of their deity's domains. How does the Divine Cursader gain spells and knowledge of spells.
Is it akin to that of a paladin, in which a spell, or spell slot is gained every other level or every sixth <whatever it is> or is it more like a sorceress/wizard or cleric, in which new slots are gained in near one level after another. Thanks a bunch and my greatest condolences for Ed and family.

In war, Justice; In peace, Hope; In death, Sacrifice
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Azuth
Senior Scribe

USA
402 Posts

Posted - 24 Mar 2011 :  00:53:28  Show Profile  Visit Azuth's Homepage Send Azuth a Private Message

THO: a question set for Ed when he has some time that is somewhat tied to my previous question on the happenings to shades of dead gods...

Did Ed have anything to do with the creation of the Celestial Stairway concept? What impact, if any, would the Spell Plague have on their functioning, and is there a map of where they are/were? Finally, once one ascends a Stairway, is there some kind of nexus to all of the other planes? Also, I recall in Shadowdale that Elminster was able to sit on one and only powerful mortals could see them. Clearly this means that ordinary people would walk right through them, but I could never find any statistics on how powerful one must be to interact with the stairways, either through site or physically climbing one. I have some players who are currently exploring Waterdeep, and want to pay a visit to "Midnight and Cyric's Rising" site to try and arrive at Bone Castle to plea with Kelemvor for the release of a dead PC, so any insight on the Stairways or how Ed would deal with this problem is most appreciated. (Congratulations on reaching 3,800 posts, Lady THO!)

Thankee, in advance!

Azuth, the First Magister
Lord of All Spells

The greatest expression of creativity is through Art.
Offense can never be given, only taken.

Edited by - Azuth on 24 Mar 2011 00:53:55
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