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AryalůmŽ
Senior Scribe

USA
666 Posts

Posted - 11 Mar 2011 :  21:35:22  Show Profile Send AryalůmŽ a Private Message
I may be homosexual but interracial things are just......yuck. I would imagine the Fey peoples would hate it becausw they believe, for the most part i would imagine, in keeping their race alive and pure. But iobviously, not all of them think like that, though quite small in number.
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createvmind
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490 Posts

Posted - 12 Mar 2011 :  01:05:02  Show Profile  Visit createvmind's Homepage Send createvmind a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

First, some commentary.

I think (as in, my own personal opinions about how these things work) is that a deity's power is solely dependent upon their worshipers. Somehow, the 'gods' of FaerŻn had convinced ALL mortals of certain things concerning 'things cosmic' - most likely through the dogma of their various churches. This created an artificial 'default' system of power going directly to the deity associated with a certain portfolio, simply because mortals thought it worked precisely that way. Mortal belief is a powerful thing.

Ao put an end to that 'lazy' system the gods had established, and forced them to go back to how it was supposed to work - deities are supposed to interact with their faithful in order to gain energy from them.

God's can be forgotten, but can never truly die - some vestige always remains, which can be re-awakened by someone finding information on the deity (and then worshiping it), even if it is just a name. It takes a certain amount of 'power', with MANY variables (not just hard numbers - the fervor of the worship is at least as important, amongst other things) to re-awaken a 'sleeping god'.

By the same token, ALL deities (but not all Gods) only have power within spheres (worlds, planes, etc) that they recieve worship, so any edicts they send forth (or spells/rituals they perform, or anything else they do) will only have power within a place that the deity itself is known (and receives attention).

What that means is that ANY mention of Kiaransalee's name that exists in a sphere where Lolth holds NO power, her name still exists in those texts. Those world's would be far-and-few-between, buuuuut... there is one canon one that is ideal for her 'rediscovery'; her homeworld of Threnody - no-one is alive there anymore, which means NO divine being holds sway in that 'dead sphere'. Her name should still exists in tomes there (although I imagine Lolth thought of that, and sent a few hundred Yochlols to destroy all the libraries on Threnody... but they could have easily missed one).

Now, my question, which I thought of because of another thread:

Ed, given that the entire concept of 'homosexuality' is practically non-existent in the Realms, in that it is common enough that it is not frowned upon in most places, and applying the aspect of cross-breeding that the Realms (and every other D&D setting) is filled with, How common are cross-racial gay couples? Would something like that be frowned upon, even in the extremely 'liberal' Realms?

As 'icky' as a human male and female halfling couple may seem, it goes to whole 'nother level of 'icky' when you consider a male human and male halfling (not because of the gay issue, but rather because of the inferred pedophilia such a relationship would bring to mind).

You've touched upon the subject (in regards to humans) several times in the past, and with elves such things should be even more acceptable (after all, if you live for a thousand years, you'd be willing to try anything once), but what about other races? How prevalent is 'being gay' amongst other demi-humans? What about Orcs and Goblinoids? Is this frowned upon in those societies? Has this subject come up in your own home-games?

Any commentary on this subject would be most welcome (except maybe giants... I don't want to picture that...)



I'm confused as to why you are factoring Lloth having influence over the demise and/or ressurection of Kiaransalee? Lloth clearly did not see the hand Elistraee played nor Corellon subbing in nor did the mages who performed epic spell worship her in any capacity. In fact said magic could have been used on her as well possibly or removed her influence from Toril at the very least had not Kiaransalee been making such a nuisance of herself. So it is more than possible several worlds, spheres have been infiltrated by followers of Kiaransalee.
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Azuth
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Posted - 12 Mar 2011 :  01:09:19  Show Profile  Visit Azuth's Homepage Send Azuth a Private Message

Ed mentioned a while back that the publishers are (in my own words) more prudes than he is. I would expect that, just as has been proven scientifically here, homosexuality exists naturally. With respect to interspecies relationships, it is important to recognize that humans don't seem to have the same type of prejudice against one another in the Realms as they do in real life.

Since we don't have any other "humanoid" species closer to use than say, monkees, and we consider relations with them bestial, it's difficult to say if the species would be attracted to one another. Clearly the species have minimal differences, else we couldn't have "half-elves" (or half-humans) but as the Realms are a place of fantasy where you can have hippogriffs and chymeras, the laws of science may not apply. That's all a long way of saying that if male and female humans and elves can fall in love with each other and mate, it's difficult to see why those of the same gender couldn't also fall in love as well.

Let us look to the true Binder of the Realms to answer your question definitively, of course.

May all your spells go off as intended.

quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

Now, my question, which I thought of because of another thread:

Ed, given that the entire concept of 'homosexuality' is practically non-existent in the Realms, in that it is common enough that it is not frowned upon in most places, and applying the aspect of cross-breeding that the Realms (and every other D&D setting) is filled with, How common are cross-racial gay couples? Would something like that be frowned upon, even in the extremely 'liberal' Realms?

As 'icky' as a human male and female halfling couple may seem, it goes to whole 'nother level of 'icky' when you consider a male human and male halfling (not because of the gay issue, but rather because of the inferred pedophilia such a relationship would bring to mind).

You've touched upon the subject (in regards to humans) several times in the past, and with elves such things should be even more acceptable (after all, if you live for a thousand years, you'd be willing to try anything once), but what about other races? How prevalent is 'being gay' amongst other demi-humans? What about Orcs and Goblinoids? Is this frowned upon in those societies? Has this subject come up in your own home-games?

Any commentary on this subject would be most welcome (except maybe giants... I don't want to picture that...)


Azuth, the First Magister
Lord of All Spells

The greatest expression of creativity is through Art.
Offense can never be given, only taken.
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AryalůmŽ
Senior Scribe

USA
666 Posts

Posted - 12 Mar 2011 :  01:42:09  Show Profile Send AryalůmŽ a Private Message
Sigh....I am not saying Lolth has anything todo with Kiaransalee comming back. The only thing I am talkg about is the fact that her name was erased in everyone's mind. Never once did I mention Lolth.
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createvmind
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490 Posts

Posted - 12 Mar 2011 :  01:57:31  Show Profile  Visit createvmind's Homepage Send createvmind a Private Message
What that means is that ANY mention of Kiaransalee's name that exists in a sphere where Lolth holds NO power, her name still exists in those texts. Those world's would be far-and-few-between, buuuuut... there is one canon one that is ideal for her 'rediscovery'; her homeworld of Threnody - no-one is alive there anymore, which means NO divine being holds sway in that 'dead sphere'. Her name should still exists in tomes there (although I imagine Lolth thought of that, and sent a few hundred Yochlols to destroy all the libraries on Threnody... but they could have easily missed one).


Ok, I'm not understanding why it matters where Lloth holds power or not in regards to Kiaransalee and if the spell went off as it is described then even Lloth no longer recalls Kiaransalee and would have no reason to seek out anything in regards to her....right?
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Azuth
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402 Posts

Posted - 12 Mar 2011 :  02:14:19  Show Profile  Visit Azuth's Homepage Send Azuth a Private Message

If I remember my Spelljammer stuff well, which is far from guaranteed, Ao and Ao alone had the will to determine the fate of deities in Realms Space. Presumably, Lolth cannot possibly overpower Ao, so she could be reintroduced on a whim from Ao. much like he reinstated Torm and denied Bane at the end of Waterdeep. Of course, presumably Ao later decided to allow Bane reincarnation via alternate means. That's the best canon way I can think of doing it.

Tip of the day: never waste a casting of magic missile at the darkness when a cantrip will suffice.



quote:
Originally posted by createvmind

What that means is that ANY mention of Kiaransalee's name that exists in a sphere where Lolth holds NO power, her name still exists in those texts. Those world's would be far-and-few-between, buuuuut... there is one canon one that is ideal for her 'rediscovery'; her homeworld of Threnody - no-one is alive there anymore, which means NO divine being holds sway in that 'dead sphere'. Her name should still exists in tomes there (although I imagine Lolth thought of that, and sent a few hundred Yochlols to destroy all the libraries on Threnody... but they could have easily missed one).


Ok, I'm not understanding why it matters where Lloth holds power or not in regards to Kiaransalee and if the spell went off as it is described then even Lloth no longer recalls Kiaransalee and would have no reason to seek out anything in regards to her....right?


Azuth, the First Magister
Lord of All Spells

The greatest expression of creativity is through Art.
Offense can never be given, only taken.

Edited by - Azuth on 12 Mar 2011 02:15:07
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AryalůmŽ
Senior Scribe

USA
666 Posts

Posted - 12 Mar 2011 :  02:15:37  Show Profile Send AryalůmŽ a Private Message
Kiaranslee's name wasn't removed from texts, just everyone's minds. I mean, the Crones still knew that they were Crones and that they worshipped a goddess of death, they just couldn't remember Kiaransale's name.
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
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Posted - 12 Mar 2011 :  02:29:09  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message
Folks, let's remember that this scroll is for questions and discussion re: Ed's replies. Please try to keep the side-chatter to a minimum, or direct it to another scroll.

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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
13118 Posts

Posted - 12 Mar 2011 :  04:12:49  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by createvmind

What that means is that ANY mention of Kiaransalee's name that exists in a sphere where Lolth holds NO power, her name still exists in those texts. Those world's would be far-and-few-between, buuuuut... there is one canon one that is ideal for her 'rediscovery'; her homeworld of Threnody - no-one is alive there anymore, which means NO divine being holds sway in that 'dead sphere'. Her name should still exists in tomes there (although I imagine Lolth thought of that, and sent a few hundred Yochlols to destroy all the libraries on Threnody... but they could have easily missed one).


Ok, I'm not understanding why it matters where Lloth holds power or not in regards to Kiaransalee and if the spell went off as it is described then even Lloth no longer recalls Kiaransalee and would have no reason to seek out anything in regards to her....right?

Okay, this may be my fault, not having actually read those novels.

I thought it was Lolth who did the 'forget-me-not' spell. If it was Eilistraee, then forgive my stupidity (in this regard).

Then simply apply what I said to Eilistraee (or whomever), rather then Lolth - the logic behind my post still works. The power behind a spell/ritual can only function in spheres that power holds sway in, so ALL traces of Kiaransalee may not be lost.

Sorry Sage - I felt the need to clarify, before the discussion (I accidentally started) continued.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone

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AryalůmŽ
Senior Scribe

USA
666 Posts

Posted - 12 Mar 2011 :  15:27:18  Show Profile Send AryalůmŽ a Private Message
I just hope THO gets my question XD
But I habe another one that may habe some NDA's blocking it but:
Is there anything Ed can tell us anout the Eladrin from Sarifal in Gwynneth (Welsh name :D) on te Moonshae Isle? Apparently they are new Eladrin (in the sense of being introduced) , look like Corellon (not EXACTLY look like him but of the same stock) and originate from Faerie (Faerie Elves?)

Edited by - AryalůmŽ on 12 Mar 2011 15:30:42
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore

5036 Posts

Posted - 12 Mar 2011 :  16:25:37  Show Profile  Visit The Hooded One's Homepage Send The Hooded One a Private Message
Hi again, all.
tradwitch1313, createvmind is quite correct about a deity name surviving in places where the obliberator of that name holds no power. That's one of the established rules of Ed's multiverse.
Regarding these questions: "To Ed and THO: I am having trouble playing my Crone of Kiaransalee in 4e Realms. Namely, because the goddess's name was wiped from everyone's mind. How does a deity die from lack of worship anyway? A significant power reduction and a descent through the deity ranks seems fine.
Also, why were Hanali Celanil, Aerdrie Faenya, and Sehanine Moonbow turned into aspects of other gods? To me it seems like a cop-out from WotC so that they don't have to do a little more work explaining the Fey pantheon, as well as the destruction of the Seldarine itself (and the Dark Seldarine with the very un-needed deaths of Kiaransalee, Eilistraee, and Vhaeraun)!!
One more thing, why do Star Elves have so many NDAs surrounding them? Will many of them be removed soon?"

Sigh. You ask many questions that neither Ed nor I can or should answer. Your first question is one that has been discussed many times, and you pose it in the exact way that many mortals in the Realms might - - and with the same inability of ever receiving a definitive answer. There are some things about life we will just never know the "whys" of...
Your aspects and Star Elves questions should all be posed to someone at Wizards, though I doubt they'll answer you. I personally have no idea of the answers, and if Ed does, his NDAs will legally constrain him from replying with anything useful or direct. Ed does not and never has "run" TSR or WotC, or had much influence over their internal decision-making, both macro (product lines, staffing, where money is spent) or micro (lore details contained in products, or lack of specific coverage or specifics).
Sorry, but that's just the way things are. No amount of wishing on any of our parts will change matters.
love,
THO
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AryalůmŽ
Senior Scribe

USA
666 Posts

Posted - 12 Mar 2011 :  21:18:55  Show Profile Send AryalůmŽ a Private Message
Ah, ok :( I seem to keep asking NDAs for some reason. I guess I just need some official words to say somethig for me to be ok with it. I hope this os a good answerable question:
Is there any place wher vampires are at least tolerated on Toril?

Edited by - AryalůmŽ on 12 Mar 2011 21:20:30
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
13118 Posts

Posted - 12 Mar 2011 :  21:32:21  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One

Hi again, all.
tradwitch1313, createvmind is quite correct about a deity name surviving in places where the obliberator of that name holds no power. <snip>
Ummmm.

Creativemind was quoting me (without using the 'Quote Function', which is a breach of forum etiquette).

Sorry, but that just rubbed me the wrong way - I put a LOT of thought into my posts.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 12 Mar 2011 22:05:57
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore

5036 Posts

Posted - 12 Mar 2011 :  21:56:47  Show Profile  Visit The Hooded One's Homepage Send The Hooded One a Private Message
Ooops! Sorry, Markustay!
love,
THO
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Azuth
Senior Scribe

USA
402 Posts

Posted - 12 Mar 2011 :  22:35:31  Show Profile  Visit Azuth's Homepage Send Azuth a Private Message

A question for Ed on "healthcare" in the Realms...

Given the prevalence of healing magics granted through divine Art, are there any places of healing/convalescing in the Realms that are noteworthy? Non-magical healing is also of interest. I know that Candlekeep will refuse no person who needs curing from poison, for example, but if a commoner had some unknown malady, would they know that going to a specific city or healer (because of reputation) would be more likely to cure said ailment? Ilmater strikes me as a faith that would go about healing the needy free of charge, but is there any type of trade equivalent to "insurance" in areas of the Realms? Say, a rich lord donates 10,000 gold to a local Church of Waukeen in exchange for the equivalent of a Raise Dead or Resurrection on a family member should it become necessary? Are there any tenets of Ilmater that cause his clergy to take on the pain of others regardless of origin? I could see a macabre relationship between the Churches of Loviatar and Ilmater in this area if that were true.

Also - which deity would be most opposed to Talona?

Cheers,


Azuth, the First Magister
Lord of All Spells

The greatest expression of creativity is through Art.
Offense can never be given, only taken.
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createvmind
Senior Scribe

490 Posts

Posted - 13 Mar 2011 :  00:57:13  Show Profile  Visit createvmind's Homepage Send createvmind a Private Message
Yes, it was Markustay who thought that out.

And actually markustay the ones who performed the spell are not followers of any deity in drow pantheon it appears, they are a mage order seeking all things magical as all mages do...:)


Also I quoted you goodsir, others may have overlooked it, but I quoted.

Edited by - createvmind on 13 Mar 2011 00:59:11
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
13118 Posts

Posted - 13 Mar 2011 :  02:32:29  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message
No worries - sorry if I got a little 'bent' - it just struck a nerve.

So WHO cast that spell? Mortals?

Methinks someone borrowed a plothook from a certain Sword of Truth novel. It was actually pretty interesting how they used it there - unless you weren't directly looking at the person the spell was used on, you couldn't 'see' them (and even then, you really had to concentrate on noticing them). Almost like a 'blink/displacer' effect coupled with a permanent area forget spell (with the area being centered on a single person).

Anyhow, thanks for correcting me - I had mistakenly thought it was Lolth from reading other's posts concerning that story (a lot happened in those novels).

And now, another question: Ed, how much of the War of Light and Darkness was from your original? I see a lot of the 4e lore (in regards to the deity/primordial war) is based upon some of that older lore, and I was wondering how much of what they have said (one world split apart) is based upon the Realms 'deeper secrets'?

Did you have something along those lines in mind all along?

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 13 Mar 2011 02:34:24
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Blueblade
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USA
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Posted - 13 Mar 2011 :  02:55:15  Show Profile  Visit Blueblade's Homepage Send Blueblade a Private Message
Heh. Markustay, why do I see Ed opening his mouth to eagerly answer that last question of yours . . .
And a huge NDA stone wall slamming down from above to land thunderously between you and the Great Greenwood, drowning him out and making all communication impossible, as dust curls up and pebbles bounce and shower in all directions, and the ground begins to split underfoot due to the great impact?

BB
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createvmind
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490 Posts

Posted - 13 Mar 2011 :  05:46:09  Show Profile  Visit createvmind's Homepage Send createvmind a Private Message
Group of drow mages all weilding sel'kuria gems from before the dark elves were cursed, you should read it, very good series actually.
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader

USA
3747 Posts

Posted - 13 Mar 2011 :  06:51:02  Show Profile  Click to see Alystra Illianniis's MSN Messenger address Send Alystra Illianniis a Private Message
As long as you don't mind the ending. It left a slightly sour taste for me. But creativmind is correct. It was a group of mages using Selu;kiira (only one mage had one- the rest were mind-linked to him) to perform a High Magic ritual. However, that lead wizard WAS an Eilistraeean!! (Not stated directly, but implied later on.)

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Dalor Darden
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Posted - 13 Mar 2011 :  07:21:51  Show Profile  Visit Dalor Darden's Homepage Send Dalor Darden a Private Message
Can Ed tell us any specific locations of Portals/Gates to other Dungeons and Dragons worlds?

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Brimstone
Great Reader

USA
2859 Posts

Posted - 13 Mar 2011 :  07:45:22  Show Profile Send Brimstone a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by tradwitch1313

Ah, ok :( I seem to keep asking NDAs for some reason. I guess I just need some official words to say somethig for me to be ok with it. I hope this os a good answerable question:
Is there any place wher vampires are at least tolerated on Toril?


Thay?

"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep
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Joran Nobleheart
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Posted - 13 Mar 2011 :  09:30:46  Show Profile  Visit Joran Nobleheart's Homepage Send Joran Nobleheart a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden

Can Ed tell us any specific locations of Portals/Gates to other Dungeons and Dragons worlds?

I think there's one to Ravenloft in the Greycloak Hills, a portal shrouded in Mist, and another is more of a doorway in the mornings along a beach as the Mist rolls in. Near Raven's Bluff, I think? Away from my books right now, sadly...

Paladinic Ethos
Saint Joran Nobleheart
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31684 Posts

Posted - 13 Mar 2011 :  10:14:38  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Joran Nobleheart

quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden

Can Ed tell us any specific locations of Portals/Gates to other Dungeons and Dragons worlds?

I think there's one to Ravenloft in the Greycloak Hills, a portal shrouded in Mist, and another is more of a doorway in the mornings along a beach as the Mist rolls in. Near Raven's Bluff, I think? Away from my books right now, sadly...

Myself, and a number of other scribes, attempted to catalogue most of the more relevant portals active in the Realms -- some of which lead to other worlds.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)

"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood

Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage
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Joran Nobleheart
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Posted - 13 Mar 2011 :  10:43:42  Show Profile  Visit Joran Nobleheart's Homepage Send Joran Nobleheart a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage

quote:
Originally posted by Joran Nobleheart

quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden

Can Ed tell us any specific locations of Portals/Gates to other Dungeons and Dragons worlds?

I think there's one to Ravenloft in the Greycloak Hills, a portal shrouded in Mist, and another is more of a doorway in the mornings along a beach as the Mist rolls in. Near Raven's Bluff, I think? Away from my books right now, sadly...

Myself, and a number of other scribes, attempted to catalogue most of the more relevant portals active in the Realms -- some of which lead to other worlds.


Oh, okay. Then I guess I wasn't of very much help then, really. Thank you for the list, Sage.

Paladinic Ethos
Saint Joran Nobleheart
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