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Ulrik
Acolyte
USA
22 Posts |
 Posted - 11 Dec 2010 : 19:04:12
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I'm starting up a new Realms game soon. i've recently acquired a deck of Paizo's Gamemastery "Plot Twist Cards" and i'm considering utilizing them in the campaign. i once participated in a Savage Worlds game (Pirates of the Spanish Main) where the players were given cards from a similar deck by SW (which i think you can find online to print) and we, the players really enjoyed being able to contribute to the story (also, it was fun being able to trip up the GM once in a while).
If you've not seen them before (though i imagine most of you have), plot twist cards are given to the players, and the card abilities are unknown to the GM. A card can be redeemed by the player to cause a particular effect (in the player's favor) to combat or to the storyline.
http://paizo.com/gameMastery/itemPacks/v5748btpy8b8m
It's that story contribution that the players can make that appeals to me the most. i do have a specific story that i want to tell with my campaign, and my players have told me that they are really looking forward to it (based on the teasers i've given them), but i don't like the idea of always leading them around on a rail. Obviously, it's good to allow the party a certain amount of freedom, and i like to think i do, but there is an over-arcing plot going on, so the group will (more or less) be going in the direction that i subtly and gently nudge them in.
Still, i like the idea of the letting the players in the group contribute to the story in some way - it can be rewarding, i think, especially in a story-heavy campaign and it could help keep the game fresh, as well as keep me on my toes.
i wanted to know if anyone here has any experience with this product or something similar. Were you the player or the DM? Did you enjoy using them? If so, how were they used in the game - did you follow the guidelines that came with the deck, or did you make your own rules?
Also, i'm wondering how i should give out the cards. Can't decide if players should get one to keep as long as they want until using it, or whether they should have to return unused cards at the end of every session and pull new cards at the start of the next (i'm leaning toward the latter). If they draw a card that they really don't like, or couldn't find a use for, should they get a small XP bonus for turning in unused cards? (so they don't feel like it was a total loss)
What should the card limit be? I'm thinking: limit one per player per session - any opinions on that? Also, i like the idea of a player getting to choose a new card right away (instead of waiting for the next session) IF they use their current card in a remarkably heroic manner... such as: using a plot twist card to jump in front of an arrow meant for someone else and suffering the consequences of that attack themselves, rather than the intended victim.
The reason why i'm considering 1 card per player per session is because i like the randomness involved. You never know what the next game meeting might hold in store for your character. We already roll dice to determine fate - why not frequent, random drawings to add a certain level of excitement. Plus, it seems like holding on to a card would get kinda stale... maybe the situation you want to use the card for never comes up and you find yourself with the same card night after night - meanwhile the rest of the group has been using cards and having a great time. Maybe you could have the option of keeping an unused card until the next session or trading it for a new one. i like that.
Any views/thoughts/ideas would be appreciated!
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"Gather ye 'round, and I'll tell you a tale..." |
Edited by - Ulrik on 11 Dec 2010 20:03:48
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3240 Posts |
Posted - 12 Dec 2010 : 16:33:21
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| My friend has been using them in his Rise of the Runelords and has been enjoying them immensely. I'm not sure of how exactly he's been using them, but I know he gives each player one card per session. |
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
Ashe's Character Sheet
Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
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Matt James
Forgotten Realms Game Designer
USA
918 Posts |
Posted - 12 Dec 2010 : 17:20:25
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| I use them in 4e and they are simply awesome. Great product! |
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Gray Richardson
Master of Realmslore
USA
1291 Posts |
Posted - 12 Dec 2010 : 17:47:06
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I've been using something similar, the Swashbuckling Cards for years:
http://www.scratchfactory.com/Resources/SwashCards.pdf
I printed out a couple of batches of these several years ago, cut them out, shuffled them, and allow the players to each draw one card before every session. They can play one at any time, if it applies. I make them read the title of the card out loud. Everyone seems to enjoy it a lot. They eve prompt me if I forget to pass them out.
I let them keep the cards until used, then I reshuffle them back into the deck. I don't let them trade cards, but they can opt to use their cards on other players to benefit them. They often forget to use them or don't find an applicable situation to use them each adventure, so they usually stockpile quite a few cards over several sessions.
All my players get a zip-lock plastic "bag of holding" in which to keep their cards and treasure. I use paper money and treasure cards to keep track of all the gold and items during the game, it makes it very clear who has how much money and who ended up with what items, or if they sold or traded an item, that they no longer possess it.
Anyway, sometimes they'll remember about the swashbuckler cards they've accumulated in a particularly dire pinch, and will play several in a row to hilarious and admirable effect. That's always fun for everybody when that happens.
If, in the alternative, you were to give out say 3 cards per session, you could make them give back the cards at the end of each session so as to encourage them to use them or lose them. That could be fun too.
However you decide to use them, I think such cards are a great way to add spice to the game. My players really, really love them. So I would encourage anyone to put them into play. |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4429 Posts |
Posted - 12 Dec 2010 : 19:53:41
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| you could award the cards based on their role-playing. the more they immerse themselves in their character. |
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Ulrik
Acolyte
USA
22 Posts |
Posted - 12 Dec 2010 : 20:43:08
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@ Diffan: Yeah, i definitely like the idea of handing them out based on roleplay, but i think everyone should at least start with one. The players in my group are all good gamers, but some are stronger RPers than others.
@ Gray: i'm not sure how i feel about letting them keep the cards - especially if they are going to begin stockpiling them. i'd also probably not allow any one player to use several cards at once - as cool as that might be for the player (and even as interesting as it might be for gameplay) i don't want to give the characters too much power. i could just see a major villain being defeated in the party's first turn of combat by one player using a handful of twist cards at once... Maybe they could all start with a random card which must be used in the current game section or lost. But, if they gain additional cards as rewards (say, from good role-playing or acting heroically) then maybe they could opt to keep those cards for as long as they want until needed. Still, i'd want to limit the number of cards a player could posses, as well as the number that could be used per player/session/encounter/battle, etc..
If i go the route of 1 random card that must be used before the end of session or lost, those players who didn't get a chance to use their card would feel bummed out.
Imagine everyone but you got to do something really cool with their cards - and say the effect on the card you drew was interesting, but not really applicable to the current scenario, wouldn't you be disappointed? Would a small XP bonus make up for that? Or would that instead be unfair to the other players? i don't think it would be...
i guess you could look at it this way: You get a card that is worth a small amount of XP - if you choose to use it, you are giving up that XP to unravel the fabric of fate and re-stitch it to bend reality in your favor. It'd be kinda like how you have to spend XP to craft magical items...
Question is - how much XP is "altering reality" worth? |
"Gather ye 'round, and I'll tell you a tale..." |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7969 Posts |
Posted - 12 Dec 2010 : 21:43:42
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I've never heard of this idea before. I like the idea of players having a secret card that the DM can't predict. They remind me of the special event cards from the classic Illuminati board game.
I think awarding a card at first level and at each level up (or one for each existing level) isn't too unbalancing ... hand them out sparingly thereafter as "special" awards, like high-end magic items or at the completion of an adventure. I wouldn't allow the players to trade their cards, nor encourage revealing them prior to use. I suppose sealed envelopes would be useful for between-session storage. 
Rewarding role play is good, but I can see it creating a long-term problem as some players are consistently more active than others and "reality bending gifts from the gods" only skew things farther away from the other players who really should participate more. I already use little XP awards to help encourage role-playing anyhow.
I wonder if these could be worked into the setting somehow ... say, priests of Tymora being able to draw two cards and select the one they want to keep ... just an idea. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Ulrik
Acolyte
USA
22 Posts |
Posted - 12 Dec 2010 : 22:29:54
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@ Arik: The whole "keeping the card secret" thing occurred to me as well - like you said about sealed envelopes, i thought about using blacked-out card sleeves or something.
The problem is - even if you collect unused cards at the end of each session, and put them into sealed boxes/envelopes (marked with the player's names), making sure that no one can see anyone else's cards but their own - what would stop one player from telling another what his/her cards were between game sessions? Sure, i could ask the group to remain on the "honor system", but eventually, someone is either gonna slip up, or else they'll have something so awesome that they can't help but talk about it... especially since some of my players are in relationships with each other - hard not to blab to someone you're sleeping with, ya know?
Anyway, that's why i'm leaning towards the 1 card per session idea - if you don't use it by the end of the session, you return it (and gain, say... 25 or 50 XP). Everyone draws again at the start of the next session.
This way, i'll be present when they get their cards. Each player can see their own cards of course, but they won't be able to show them to each other (not with the almighty DUNGEON MASTER looming over them). And after the session wraps up, if you want to tell everyone what card you had, go ahead... it won't matter 'cause it's already gone. But hey, maybe you'll get that card again next time - or maybe even a better one!
Also, this would prevent "Player A" from telling "Player B" when or how "Player B" should use their cards. It's a form of sharing out-of-character knowledge... can't allow that.
And Arik, i too am reminded of the fickle (if not chaotic) nature of luck... Luck handed down from the gods... To me, the ever-changing card idea amplifies this feeling.
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"Gather ye 'round, and I'll tell you a tale..." |
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Ulrik
Acolyte
USA
22 Posts |
Posted - 12 Dec 2010 : 22:59:27
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i'm starting to think giving an XP bonus for unused cards is wrong... You can hold on to a card and wait for just the right moment to use it, but if you wait too long, you lose your chance. Rather than give you XP, you'll just have to be better about using your card when you can. i think this too evokes the fickle nature of luck.
Didn't get a chance to use your card? Sorry... better luck next time... |
"Gather ye 'round, and I'll tell you a tale..." |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7969 Posts |
Posted - 13 Dec 2010 : 00:34:12
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A variation is to track the number of cards each player possesses; they draw randomly each session/adventure and can choose to hoard or spend as they see fit. Best of both worlds, they might even dislike their card and hope for a better one next time around, or they might squander them all right away and be sorry later. lol, of course I fully expect them to plot their OOC conspiracies behind my back; I'm not (generally) perceived as the "confrontational" DM sort, but it's a little bit inevitable.
Or they could not know what cards they hold; just draw randomly and use immediately. I don't really like this idea as much. The "per session" draw lets them get their evil little groggy gears spinning. They can even discuss their cards (used or discarded) between sessions, good fun until they eventually discover all the possible cards in the deck. Of course there's no real reason why the contents of the deck should remain constant; cards can be added or removed at the DM's whim.
I really like the idea of the players having a "secret weapon" they can use, to keep them happy and to keep me on my toes. I'm one of the "purist" sorts who, when random rolls are called for, will strictly abide by the results ... it keeps the game fair and a little more interesting. (Why bother to roll dice at all if you're just going to pick a result anyhow?) Letting the players have "wild cards" seems like a good thing. I wouldn't think it's wise to let BBEGs "cheat" through these cards, it takes away from the virtues of PC "heroism". |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 13 Dec 2010 00:36:39 |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4429 Posts |
Posted - 13 Dec 2010 : 14:58:39
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So I've been going over these cards and I'm seriously thinking about getting them, which sorta puts me in your situation.
What I think I'll do is give each player 1 card, determinded randomly. They can only have 1 card at a time and issue the following
- based on their heroics, Role-play, or crazy antics they attempt in combat (like performing acrobatic checks to run along the walls, climb a wall and flip off it, or something spectacular like Bull-Rushing a bad guy out of a window) I'll award them another draw, allowing them to choose between two cards but they'll only be able to keep one.
- When they use up a card, they can achieve another one by doing the above-stated things or gaining a level.
- Gaining a level allows someone with an un-spent card to pick a new one and chose between the two.
- Each time a card is chosen and/or discarded, the pile is reshuffled.
As for using cards, I'm limiting it to 1 card per round. |
Edited by - Diffan on 13 Dec 2010 14:59:01 |
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Ulrik
Acolyte
USA
22 Posts |
Posted - 13 Dec 2010 : 20:10:21
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i'm still not sure, but i am tinkering with the idea of a smaller, limited deck that the players would randomly draw from - at least in the beginning... as the game progresses, i'd add more cards to the deck.
Or, maybe a system where we start with a full deck, but as cards get used, they're discarded rather than shuffled back in. Eventually, when the deck runs out, i'd reshuffle and start over. The deck has 51 cards, but i could just see the same one or two coming up over and over...
The game doesn't officially begin for a few more weeks, and we'll all get together before then and decide on what we're doing.
Thanks for the brainstorming ideas, everyone - keep 'em coming if you have more! |
"Gather ye 'round, and I'll tell you a tale..." |
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3240 Posts |
Posted - 13 Dec 2010 : 21:57:55
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Here's how my friend uses them:
quote:
Phil, the mighty DM
At the start of each session I shuffle then fan out the deck on the table & the players each draw one card face down & are asked to not show anyone what they got.
During the game they can play the cards at the appropriate times. The part on the card that shows a specific + or - bonus to a skill check/ability check/attack roll/etc can be used when they are able(first block under the picture on the card). The player then turns in his or her card. Only one plot twist can be played per player per round of combat.
This leads to the 4 "plot twists" under the statistical ability of the card. The player has to pick one of the four "twists" and tell me how they would like it to work and why. If it works I'll make it happen as best as possible within the boundaries of the situation its being used in & the player turns in the card. If it wont work or makes no sense I veto the request and hand the card back to the player.
If a player earns enough experience during the course of the game & levels up then he/she can pull another plot twist card randomly to use during the nights session. At the sessions end all players turn in their unused cards. They all draw new cards at the next session.
I use most of the rules that came with the cards but changed stuff to suit me and the game better.
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I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
Ashe's Character Sheet
Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
Edited by - Ashe Ravenheart on 13 Dec 2010 21:58:10 |
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using Plot Twist Cards in your campaign
