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Galuf the Dwarf
Senior Scribe
USA
504 Posts |
 Posted - 10 Dec 2010 : 02:35:09
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This just came to my mind after having to deal with some unfinished chores I unintentionally neglected today.
Anyways, so has anyone come up with a campaign that partly or entirely deals with a character learning to use all their skills to their fullest potential?
For instance, I was thinking - in particular - about a overly-combat-oriented paladin who rarely talks to people or take time to pray for spells and use them, or utilize their ability to turn undead. In time, the paladin learns to utilize all available actions they can use effectively in a campaign over the course of the campaign. I was imagining that a druid (probably of either Chauntea or Silvanus) would in part help the paladin realize about this in a time of dilemma, maybe with a teaching from the druid's circle about "Before one can bring the most strength to their cause, one must first find balance in their heart, mind and body." In that case, the paladin realises they must learn to utilize various game-playing aspects in and out of combat, including dialogue checks, spellcasting, etc.
In short, has anyone tried this before, at least in 2nd or 3.X edition? I don't know if it could really work for 4th edition, but I'm open to hear any accounts similar to this.
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Galuf's Baldur's Gate NPC stats: forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=8823
Galuf's 3.5 Ed. Cleric Domains: forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=14036
Galuf's Homebrew 4th Edition Races: forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=13787
Galuf's Homebrew Specialty Priest PrCs: forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=14353
Galuf's Forgotten Realms Heralds and Allies thread: forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=8766 |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4430 Posts |
Posted - 10 Dec 2010 : 18:26:36
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Not really sure what your asking here. It is if you require your PCs to have in-game/role play reasons for using their abilities OR if you require your PCs to go out of their way role play wise to obtain those abilities?
I don't require my PCs to do anything when they gain a specific ability (like Turn Undead for a paladin) but I will have them note when they pray for their spells and such. Additionally, if they're out camping or are attacked while resting, they have to rest that much more to regain their spells and such.
Also, your paladin can select feats that turn his Turn Undead uses into more potent Combat abilities such as Divine Might, Divine Shield, OR take an alternate class feature that swaps his Turn Undead for something else. In that case, Champions of valor would be a good source to check out. |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7970 Posts |
Posted - 10 Dec 2010 : 18:46:37
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I'm also not sure I understand the question.
Plenty of detailed rules and guidelines for paladins already exist. They get their class skills at first level and progress from there, making whatever choices they make to further specialize their talents. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4430 Posts |
Posted - 10 Dec 2010 : 19:20:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Arik
I'm also not sure I understand the question.
Plenty of detailed rules and guidelines for paladins already exist. They get their class skills at first level and progress from there, making whatever choices they make to further specialize their talents.
I think the question is, not when they gain their abilities but how (in game) they unlock them via role playing. For example, a paladin automatically gains Turn Undead at 4th level, but just saying " *BAM* You can now use Turn Undead" doesn't fit flavor or role playing applications. But something like "calling down the power of your God, you channel it's divine essence into a radiant glow that beats back your undead foe!" and sorta apply that to how you use your Turn Undead powers.
Or I'm way off the mark here.
But regardless of how it's told or role played, I wouldn't (as a DM) deny the ability for the character to use it. |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7970 Posts |
Posted - 10 Dec 2010 : 20:21:58
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"By the everglowing and radiant power of eternally glorious Lathander ye are expelled, exorcised, abjured, dismissed, banished, and forbidden in this place! I command ye to gaze upon this burning holy light and begone! Begone, foul abominations, begone back to the festering pits of unholy foul darkness from which ye were spawned!"
Uh, I still see not the question. A noob paladin has been trained, taught, and practiced in his little skills. A more accomplished paladin draws from his growing experiences and deeper "connection" with his holy source. Perhaps, like his warhorse, he simply receives instruction in a dream sent to him by his divine power. Perhaps he aspires to demonstrate powers of faith described in the histories of his order. Perhaps he simply passes a "threshold" and suddenly feels inspired and confident enough to try something new that "just feels right". Perhaps he receives the new talents of his class only after receiving training for his new level, as would any other character. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Mr_Miscellany
Senior Scribe
545 Posts |
Posted - 10 Dec 2010 : 20:27:21
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It seems to me Gulaf is asking if any of us have run campaigns for player characters that don't focus on using all the abilities at their disposal.
Ergo: you start with a player who creates a character with different abilities (like a Paladin who can cast and turn undead in addition to fighting), but chooses only to fight as much as possible, and the DM creates encounters that encourage or teach the PC to branch out and use the neglected abilities.
Another example might be a thief (that's a rogue for you never-played-2E-or-1E people) who only picks pockets because to him or her that's not as dangerous as climbing walls, walking on slate roofs and disarming magical traps.
The DM then pushes the character to use those neglected abilities in a fun, interesting, death defying, seat-of-your-pants kind of way.
As to the question itself: I haven’t run a campaign like this, but as a rule I always try to create encounters and situations where all the characters in the party have opportunities to use all of the abilities and their disposal. |
Edited by - Mr_Miscellany on 10 Dec 2010 20:30:13 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 10 Dec 2010 : 20:37:46
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I think we also have to examine why the player is playing his paladin that way. Is Mr. Pally a hack-n-slash type who only took the class for min/max possibilities? Is he a new player that simply isn't aware of the role of the paladin, or isn't comfortable with some of those abilities? Or is he an experienced player who chose to have a paladin who is overly enthusiastic about combat?
To use Mr Misc's 2E thief example, I once played a 2E thief that didn't really mess with picking pockets, and so he pumped up other abilities, such as Climb Walls and Find/Remove Traps. That was just in keeping with the concept for my character. I'd've been quite irked with my DM if he decided I was under-utilizing my Pick Pockets ability and kept pushing me to use that. |
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Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 10 Dec 2010 20:38:34 |
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Galuf the Dwarf
Senior Scribe
USA
504 Posts |
Posted - 10 Dec 2010 : 20:45:59
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quote:
Originally posted by Mr_Miscellany
It seems to me Gulaf is asking if any of us have run campaigns for player characters that don't focus on using all the abilities at their disposal.
Ergo: you start with a player who creates a character with different abilities (like a Paladin who can cast and turn undead in addition to fighting), but chooses only to fight as much as possible, and the DM creates encounters that encourage or teach the PC to branch out and use the neglected abilities.
Another example might be a thief (that's a rogue for you never-played-2E-or-1E people) who only picks pockets because to him or her that's not as dangerous as climbing walls, walking on slate roofs and disarming magical traps.
The DM then pushes the character to use those neglected abilities in a fun, interesting, death defying, seat-of-your-pants kind of way.
Yes! That's it! At least one person understands what I'm implying!
quote:
As to the question itself: I haven’t run a campaign like this, but as a rule I always try to create encounters and situations where all the characters in the party have opportunities to use all of the abilities and their disposal.
Well, better than nothing, I'd say.  |
Galuf's Baldur's Gate NPC stats: forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=8823
Galuf's 3.5 Ed. Cleric Domains: forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=14036
Galuf's Homebrew 4th Edition Races: forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=13787
Galuf's Homebrew Specialty Priest PrCs: forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=14353
Galuf's Forgotten Realms Heralds and Allies thread: forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=8766 |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7970 Posts |
Posted - 10 Dec 2010 : 21:15:57
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It could be the player doesn't really want a "paladin", only a glorified fighter who possibly has access to a few extra powers. Nothing wrong with this, just point out to the player that he's paying extra XP for stuff he never uses. Maybe you'd both be happier if he could replace his paladin with a different character. Maybe trade him an NPC for a session or two (easy to do if you offer a higher-level character he thinks is cool), let him explore a different character type and see how the DM plays the paladin. The player may even choose to become a fallen or disgraced paladin (ie, a fighter) if you allow, thus removing the "restrictions" imposed on his character.
Again, he might receive "visions" or "dreams" which help nudge him towards more paladin-like behaviour. Or be presented (by his deity/DM) with situations where paladin behaviour/powers are a necessary solution.
It might help to condition the player by rewarding him with little XP boons when he acts paladin, or punishing him with little XP banes when he doesn't (in situations where it's expected yet he still doesn't do it). The more heavyhanded approach is to have his deity become displeased and deny/limit paladin spells/powers until he proves or redeems himself through some sort of deity-serving quest. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Mr_Miscellany
Senior Scribe
545 Posts |
Posted - 10 Dec 2010 : 21:25:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I'd've been quite irked with my DM if he decided I was under-utilizing my Pick Pockets ability and kept pushing me to use that.
I'd be hesitant to do that to a player.
In my experience the other players are the ones who ought to put the pressure on, especially if they (and not me through encounter creation) think the best way to work a situation was to have one of their group use an ability they don't often otherwise.
As a DM I'm not above creating a situation once in a great while where a player must use an ability they haven't built up. I think it makes for great roleplaying (of the grumbling and subtle grousing sort) and good entertainment at the gaming table. |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4430 Posts |
Posted - 11 Dec 2010 : 01:24:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Galuf the Dwarf
quote:
Originally posted by Mr_Miscellany
It seems to me Gulaf is asking if any of us have run campaigns for player characters that don't focus on using all the abilities at their disposal.
Ergo: you start with a player who creates a character with different abilities (like a Paladin who can cast and turn undead in addition to fighting), but chooses only to fight as much as possible, and the DM creates encounters that encourage or teach the PC to branch out and use the neglected abilities.
Another example might be a thief (that's a rogue for you never-played-2E-or-1E people) who only picks pockets because to him or her that's not as dangerous as climbing walls, walking on slate roofs and disarming magical traps.
The DM then pushes the character to use those neglected abilities in a fun, interesting, death defying, seat-of-your-pants kind of way.
Yes! That's it! At least one person understands what I'm implying!
Well that's simple enough. Throw some undead at them (unless there's a powerful cleric in the party as well) and emphasize how useful his turning undead power can be. Show him alternate class features that might replace the Turning undead ability for something else. As far as spellcasting goes, show him good Paladin spells such as Rhino's Rush and Bless Weapon. |
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Galuf the Dwarf
Senior Scribe
USA
504 Posts |
Posted - 11 Dec 2010 : 05:09:55
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| Well, pardon any additional confusion, but I actually don't play P&P Forgotten Realms (at the moment). This thought just occurred to me and I figured I'd see if anyone had any experiences with such at all, and then maybe somebody could apply both the concept and the feedback to such a situation they come across if it does happen. It's kind-of like some of the articles (if I'm not mistaken, like 'Save My Game') that WotC featured on their website a few years back. |
Galuf's Baldur's Gate NPC stats: forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=8823
Galuf's 3.5 Ed. Cleric Domains: forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=14036
Galuf's Homebrew 4th Edition Races: forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=13787
Galuf's Homebrew Specialty Priest PrCs: forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=14353
Galuf's Forgotten Realms Heralds and Allies thread: forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=8766 |
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Important lessons for characters in a campaign?
