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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
 Posted - 30 Nov 2010 : 22:29:27
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'Playpretty' means someone who is 'for the moment' and could mean a coinlass, but could also mean a 'trollop' one has 'picked-up' just for the evening. It is a temporary dalliance.
It is also normally used to refer to someone 'young', being 'dabbled with' by someone older, although the female (or male) does not have to be all that young (just look it) - note the similarity to the earth-term 'playmate', which has two connotations. It would almost never be applied by someone younger in reference to someone older (in other words, a male would never used that term to reference 'a cougar').
@Ashe - I've only sampled a couple, and found them not to my taste - they were pretty bad, so I would hate to think that there are worse out there (but I'm sure there are).
quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
Whoops! Sorry for the spoiler, MT. I just thought it deserved mention as something I liked. As to El's blasting of wizards, it had nothing at all to do with his mood, as I read it- just a case of "they're in my way and I'm not going to slow down".
Precisely - its no longer 'a mood' - its his 'state of mind' by that time.
quote:
Originally posted by Kno
All generalizations are bad
Brilliant! 
You sir, get today's 'Irony Award'. Its rather small... sub-atomic actually... so make sure you display it somewhere safe.  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 30 Nov 2010 22:31:21 |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 01 Dec 2010 : 01:55:30
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quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
Yes, he did, but he also used "saving the kingdom from itself" as his justification for putting her first. Apparently, he seemed to think it could not survive on its own without his AND her) help. A little egotistic, if you think about it. El's always been a meddler, though, so I sort of shrugged it off as his usual sense of "world can't live without me" mentality.
His choice made sense. Without him and Alassra, Cormyr would eventually fall.
quote:
Originally posted by Fingal
quote:
Originally posted by dennis
I wonder who voted for "Somewhere in between." A guest?
I voted for 'somewhere in between'. I thought it was alright but nothing exceptional. I have often found that while I really love Ed's gaming work, there is something about his fiction that just misses the mark with me. I find it really hard work to get through one of his novels and this was much the same, unfortunately.
It's two-way, actually: missing something important, and teeming with something not that essential.
quote:
Originally posted by Fingal
Strangely, I quite like his short stories, which is odd because I don't usually enjoy short stories at all, (with the exception of a couple of authors.)
I don't. I bought Best of the Realms, Book II, which is a collection of his old and new short fiction. I only read half of it, and don't have any plan to resume. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Acolyte Thirteen
Seeker
93 Posts |
Posted - 01 Dec 2010 : 02:05:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
^ Isn't that generalizing? LOL, kidding.
Hence the irony award?
I looked forward to reading "Elminster Must Die!" more than I have looked forward to reading any other book in years. Totally blew the new R. Jordan offerings out of the water, as far as my excitement level was concerned. And then I read it.
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 01 Dec 2010 : 02:22:03
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quote:
Originally posted by Quale
''as if I care'', I lost interest in Elminster a while ago.
Also people that are against the voting want to hide the faults of FR fiction. Without such threads online it would be difficult to find quality fantasy if everyone was allowed to only post positive comments.
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Every beginning has an end. |
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BEAST
Master of Realmslore
USA
1714 Posts |
Posted - 01 Dec 2010 : 03:47:55
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quote:
Originally posted by dennis
It's just so sad to see the characters you've grown to like become mere shadows/husks of their former selves, and to see and hear them lament their loss. And knowing everything they've done and sacrificed for 'the greater good,' you're likely to say they don't deserve it.
What did you mean when you said "they don't deserve it", there?
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
It seems I've heard nearly this exact same argument in regards to Drizzt in Gauntlgrym.
I wonder if this is all part of the 'lessening' of the over-the-top NPCs that made folks 'feel bad' about their own puny PCs. I know that's why they pruned the hell out of the setting (killed damn-near everyone), but I have to wonder in regards to these two recent novels (and uber-characters) if there wasn't more to their 'grand design'.
I suppose only Ed and Bob would know, since the two best-know Munchkins are 'theirs' (and I mean that in the nicest way - I love Elminster).
I don't know that Drizzt was lessened in Gauntlgrym, MT. He is still an uber-fighter and all. It's just that the thought processes as to why he fights and what he hopes to accomplish with the fighting has changed.
He certainly does not spend much time boo-hooing his loss, here. Rather, he does something else to completely deny the pain. He's more warrior now, and less warrior-poet. Why, there are only two Drizzt Diary entries in the latest book!
Drizzt goes through phases in his life. Going back through all the Drizzt stories, I can see that now much more clearly than if I just skim a few websites that happen to talk about him.
That other readers seem to have misread and misreported Drizzt's persona in his latest book gives me cause to question how accurate people's descriptions of El's are, here. Are we really sure El has been diminished, here? Or is that he is going through a perfectly understandable phase of life, given whatever came before? Ed recently wrote that Bob is writing his Drizzt books with the long view in mind now. Does that help pave the way for a different interp of this one? |
"'You don't know my history,' he said dryly."
--Drizzt Do'Urden (The Pirate King, Part 1: Chapter 2)
<"Comprehensive Chronology of R.A. Salvatore Forgotten Realms Works"> |
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Sandro
Learned Scribe
New Zealand
266 Posts |
Posted - 01 Dec 2010 : 06:47:00
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The difference between El and Drizzt is that, while both have loved and lost (El many, many more times than Drizzt, though that's immaterial), the Spellplague hit El much harder due to his connection with Mystra. His world-weariness is not so much greater than it was in 3E (hell, even 2E), but he can't even work magic safely anymore, and he's now watching the world he's worked so hard to protect start to fall apart while he does everything he can to save both it and the Simbul, his constant and "true" love, despite being horribly outclassed in his attempts to do both.
He's old, he's tired, and he's no longer capable of doing what he has to do. He is, I think, very much diminished. |
"Gods, little fishes, and spells to turn the one to the other," Mordenkainen sighed. "It's started already..." |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7969 Posts |
Posted - 01 Dec 2010 : 06:55:06
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quote:
Sandro
... the Spellplague hit El much harder ... His world-weariness is not so much greater than it was in 3E (hell, even 2E), but he can't even work magic safely anymore, and he's now watching the world he's worked so hard to protect start to fall apart while he does everything he can to save ... his constant and "true" love, despite being horribly outclassed in his attempts ...
He's old, he's tired, and he's no longer capable of doing what he has to do. He is, I think, very much diminished.
This statement seems to have some sad parallels. The Realms are changing in ways in ways beyond his influence, El's position seems to be moving from central to incidental. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7969 Posts |
Posted - 01 Dec 2010 : 07:31:36
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quote:
Markustayquote:
Arik
FWIW, I've noticed the structure and general quality of writing in D&D core books has consistently improved over the years - a quick flip through four editions of the DMG says it all.
You include 4th edition in that? 
Actually I do, Markus. I generally don't play 4E, though I have a bit. From a mechanical/gaming viewpoint it works very well, at least until "contaminated" by pre-4E rule sourcebooks. My main objections with 4E are based on the dramatic changes to the setting (mainly Spellplague and timejump; and even those events aren't in themselves too objectionable, I just strongly reject what I see as the clumsy and heavyhanded way they were handled). Taken for what it is, a standalone D&D game, 4E is actually a good product. And yes, I feel it was generally well written. Compare the core PHB/DMG/MM content to previous editions; there's a lot of good new content that really needed to be there before. I'll note that I regularly adapt selected portions of 4E lore into my pre-4E game setting. The artwork, illustrations, indices, charts/tables and such are far more pleasing and useful than before, though not specifically part of the "writing". And no, I'm not saying all this just to appease the game designers; I could've lived without buying 4E (and I don't buy much of it), but it's still a good D&D product.
Insofar as Elminster Must Die spoilers ... heh, it says as much in the scroll title. It appears that dennis likes some elements of the book but generally gives it a solid thumbs down; his criticism seems fair enough to me, and lol, diplomatically eloquent. Fat old Mirt plays a role in this book? I'm gonna read it for sure - Mirt must be about 150 years old now. |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 01 Dec 2010 07:37:36 |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 01 Dec 2010 : 08:58:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Sandro
The difference between El and Drizzt is that, while both have loved and lost (El many, many more times than Drizzt, though that's immaterial), the Spellplague hit El much harder due to his connection with Mystra. His world-weariness is not so much greater than it was in 3E (hell, even 2E), but he can't even work magic safely anymore, and he's now watching the world he's worked so hard to protect start to fall apart while he does everything he can to save both it and the Simbul, his constant and "true" love, despite being horribly outclassed in his attempts to do both.
He's old, he's tired, and he's no longer capable of doing what he has to do. He is, I think, very much diminished.
I totally agree, Sandro. That's why despite my quibbles with this book, I still appreciate El's sincere desire to pass on the torch. To Rune, though it seems to be only temporary. Unless of course Rune decides to completely devote her entire life doing what El has been doing for thousands of years... |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3286 Posts |
Posted - 01 Dec 2010 : 09:16:50
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quote:
Originally posted by Arik
quote:
Sandro
... the Spellplague hit El much harder ... His world-weariness is not so much greater than it was in 3E (hell, even 2E), but he can't even work magic safely anymore, and he's now watching the world he's worked so hard to protect start to fall apart while he does everything he can to save ... his constant and "true" love, despite being horribly outclassed in his attempts ...
He's old, he's tired, and he's no longer capable of doing what he has to do. He is, I think, very much diminished.
This statement seems to have some sad parallels. The Realms are changing in ways in ways beyond his influence, El's position seems to be moving from central to incidental.
Thats his position right now. We don't know what roll El will play in the Realms after the 6th book is released. For all we know he could be the new God of Magic in the Realms, or another Azuth while the Simbul is the new Mystra.
Also it will be fun to see Ed create a new batch of hero's in these novels to influence the 1480's realms... |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
Edited by - Brimstone on 01 Dec 2010 09:18:31 |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 01 Dec 2010 : 09:29:13
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quote:
Originally posted by BEAST
quote:
Originally posted by dennis
It's just so sad to see the characters you've grown to like become mere shadows/husks of their former selves, and to see and hear them lament their loss. And knowing everything they've done and sacrificed for 'the greater good,' you're likely to say they don't deserve it.
What did you mean when you said "they don't deserve it", there?
That instead of being punished (suffering from madness), they should have been rewarded for the all the good things they've accomplished. If not rewarded, at the very least been given a punishment or consequence that's less harsh and less pitiful than falling into the depths of insanity.
quote:
Originally posted by Arik
It appears that dennis likes some elements of the book but generally gives it a solid thumbs down; his criticism seems fair enough to me, and lol, diplomatically eloquent.
Thanks.I guess.
Actually, I reserve my meanness in reviewing books for the magazines. Two of my editors even "encourage" me to use really demeaning words if I deem them necessary, like 'a disgrace to literature, 'worse than the reek of an old man's crap,' and many more. I know 'tis harsh, and never would I use such colorful verbiage here. But when you get to review some of the books I do, you'll understand, and mayhap be more 'creative' in the art of 'torturous reviewing.'
quote:
Originally posted by Brimstone
quote:
Originally posted by Arik
quote:
Sandro
... the Spellplague hit El much harder ... His world-weariness is not so much greater than it was in 3E (hell, even 2E), but he can't even work magic safely anymore, and he's now watching the world he's worked so hard to protect start to fall apart while he does everything he can to save ... his constant and "true" love, despite being horribly outclassed in his attempts ...
He's old, he's tired, and he's no longer capable of doing what he has to do. He is, I think, very much diminished.
This statement seems to have some sad parallels. The Realms are changing in ways in ways beyond his influence, El's position seems to be moving from central to incidental.
Thats his position right now. We don't know what roll El will play in the Realms after the 6th book is released. For all we know he could be the new God of Magic in the Realms, or another Azuth while the Simbul is the new Mystra.
I would be completely saddened if that ever happens. I like Alassra as the Witch-Queen. Besides, being a goddess is much more a burden than a blessing or honor. And she's already endured so much burden being a Chosen alone. How much more if she takes over the throne of the goddess who happens to be the target of almost all the deities of evil alignment ---the mad Cyric and the sexy but madder Shar among others. |
Every beginning has an end. |
Edited by - Dennis on 01 Dec 2010 09:39:28 |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 01 Dec 2010 : 16:56:34
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quote:
Originally posted by dennis
quote:
Originally posted by BEAST
quote:
Originally posted by dennis
It's just so sad to see the characters you've grown to like become mere shadows/husks of their former selves, and to see and hear them lament their loss. And knowing everything they've done and sacrificed for 'the greater good,' you're likely to say they don't deserve it.
What did you mean when you said "they don't deserve it", there?
That instead of being punished (suffering from madness), they should have been rewarded for the all the good things they've accomplished. If not rewarded, at the very least been given a punishment or consequence that's less harsh and less pitiful than falling into the depths of insanity.
That's an interesting point, and I see that as partially Ed's intention, and partially an inevitable consequence of continuing to tell the same character's story.
In our entertainment, we're often accustomed to people having a distinct "happily ever after" ending, but there are two things to note: 1) in RL, that doesn't really happen, and 2) when the character keeps coming back, you need to keep introducing new conflict into the character's path.
If Elminster had a "happily-ever-after," why would we need/want to keep reading about said character? He's got to keep having things to do--problems that crop up and have to be dealt with--and those problems have to have an overaching continuity or they begin to seem like unconnected authorial tricks.
We have to get denied a sense of overall closure on the character, because if we had that, the character's story would be over--instead, we just get small victories and defeats which will (in the murky, unforeseen future) add up to something bigger and final, but we'll never actually get there until we're done with this particular character's story.
Elminster's ongoing story is, in some ways, more like real life than the "happily-ever-after" trope. Elminster Must Die marks a distinct "worse" period. One would think that a real person would only deal with a limited number of hazards, but the demands of continuing to publish an ongoing character necessitate otherwise. Rather than do his thing and get to retire, he continues to live and deal with things, and things sometimes get better and sometimes get worse.
And I think that's one of Ed's overarching themes: a hero is someone who continually struggles to do the right thing, even when the odds dwarf him and he sees very little hope of success.
And it's not like Elminster is alone in this. Characters all over the fantasy genre who have ongoing series run into this same issue (look at Richard Cypher, for instance)--life goes on, and battles need to be fought. It does seem that El seems to achieve less and less as time passes--I see his quest more about slowing the tide of darkness, rather than stopping it, and the preservation of hope.
There's no final victory for him, as well there shouldn't be--the Realms continues as a setting, with new dangers and heroes and villains showing up all the time. The best El could do is bequeath his endless quest to new heroes, at a point and place where he can see things getting better--to leave the Realms in good hands.
Cheers
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Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 01 Dec 2010 : 18:14:54
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quote:
Originally posted by Arik
I'm gonna read it for sure - Mirt must be about 150 years old now.
Missed this one, earlier...
Mirt was close to that before the timejump. We have this relevant quote from Ed from back in 2004:
quote:
I think Mirt and Durnan are both a trifle OLDER than 120. Still unpublished is the “essential Realmslore” short story in which they acquired as treasure certain drinkables that might be expressed in AD&D terms (the D&D game came along after I wrote the story) as slightly-variant Potions of Longevity. So, yes, they appear to be rather leathery/fat/worn-but-vigorous 50-ish males. The way the published Realms has turned out, the careers of Mirt and Durnan have been sadly neglected, but you will see their present-day selves adventuring together in my tale in the forthcoming Realms of Dragons anthology (end of 2004, I believe).
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
Posted - 01 Dec 2010 : 18:41:07
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Hi, all.
VERY well put, Erik.
Add to that Brimstone's reminder that we're seeing the first of six books, and a point I'll make to dennis: bored by Ed's "unnecessary" stuff is a personal reaction, but to judge it "unnecessary" in the first place is to prejudge what Ed's going to write in the next five books (something reinforced by your verdict of the plot, which obviously hasn't been entirely revealed yet [[trust me, I read a LOT of fantasy, and have edited my fair share of it, too, and it was obvious to ME what Ed was up to without having to discuss it with him]]). And you entirely missed the point of the prologue (sellswords? did you miss what they actually were? hmmm; how closely did you read the rest of the book, I wonder, if you missed THAT?).
Any reader who's perused most of Ed's Realms novels should know that nothing included in Ed's novels is "unnecessary." Unnecessary to THAT PARTICULAR BOOK, perhaps, but Ed's books link, "set up," and support all sorts of future Realms products with tiny bits of lore, inferences, and background, and always have.
I think the real flaw in dennis's "verdict" of ELMINSTER MUST DIE! is in judging it as a standalone book rather than the first of a six-book series, without qualifiers. By all means dislike it, but being as you're reviewing the 184th (I think; it may be 185th, or 186th) book of someone who's been writing professionally for over forty years, bear in mind that it MIGHT be a dud . . . but then again, the writer just might know what he's doing.
love,
THO |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7969 Posts |
Posted - 01 Dec 2010 : 18:47:54
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| So, now, as a curiosity. How old does this make Mirt in the novel? Given that "50-ish" is a physical age of perhaps 50±10 years. (Why am I reminded of Cohen the Barbarian?) |
[/Ayrik] |
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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3563 Posts |
Posted - 01 Dec 2010 : 18:56:24
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quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
Hi, all.
VERY well put, Erik.
Add to that Brimstone's reminder that we're seeing the first of six books, and a point I'll make to dennis: bored by Ed's "unnecessary" stuff is a personal reaction, but to judge it "unnecessary" in the first place is to prejudge what Ed's going to write in the next five books (something reinforced by your verdict of the plot, which obviously hasn't been entirely revealed yet [[trust me, I read a LOT of fantasy, and have edited my fair share of it, too, and it was obvious to ME what Ed was up to without having to discuss it with him]]). And you entirely missed the point of the prologue (sellswords? did you miss what they actually were? hmmm; how closely did you read the rest of the book, I wonder, if you missed THAT?).
Any reader who's perused most of Ed's Realms novels should know that nothing included in Ed's novels is "unnecessary." Unnecessary to THAT PARTICULAR BOOK, perhaps, but Ed's books link, "set up," and support all sorts of future Realms products with tiny bits of lore, inferences, and background, and always have.
I think the real flaw in dennis's "verdict" of ELMINSTER MUST DIE! is in judging it as a standalone book rather than the first of a six-book series, without qualifiers. By all means dislike it, but being as you're reviewing the 184th (I think; it may be 185th, or 186th) book of someone who's been writing professionally for over forty years, bear in mind that it MIGHT be a dud . . . but then again, the writer just might know what he's doing.
love,
THO
Amen.....everything was thinking about writing and then some. |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 01 Dec 2010 : 19:04:01
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I have always felt people in the Realms were heartier then Earth people - the live longer, and lead fuller lives into their 'winter years', and women apparently are fertile later in life (there is a canon example of woman giving birth in her fifties - that was WELL beyond child-bearing years in the MiddleAges).
It may have something to do with trace amounts of non-human blood running through all humans after 30K+ years, but it probably has more to do with the fact that McDonald's haven't built a franchise there yet.
On a slightly more serious note, it could also have to do with Ed's original concept of The Weave = Life; people on Toril are just 'infused' with higher doses of Radiant/Magical energy (for whatever reason).
quote:
Originally posted by Acolyte Thirteen
I looked forward to reading "Elminster Must Die!" more than I have looked forward to reading any other book in years. Totally blew the new R. Jordan offerings out of the water, as far as my excitement level was concerned. And then I read it.
What you did there was build it up too much mentally - when you do that you are almost always setting yourself up for disappointment.
At my age, the most I ever hope for is "I hope I don't hate it" - anything beyond that is pure gravy.
quote:
Originally posted by Arik
Actually I do, Markus.
I realized what you meant after I posted that, but I let the comment stand (I don't want people to think I've totally 'rolled over' - I'm still a Grognard at heart).
When I first posted that comment the very first thing that jumped to mind was the FRCG, and upon re-reading your post I realized what you meant. To me, a rulebook is a rulebook, and since I haven't 'been through it a hundred times' (as I have every other edition's rulebooks), I can't really judge the quality (which is based on 'ease-of-use', which I haven't yet experienced).
But I hear it is very well-organized, for what it's worth. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7969 Posts |
Posted - 01 Dec 2010 : 19:26:08
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| Your arguments have merit, Markus. But most humans who die of old age in the Realms won't last as long as old Mirty (90+2d10 years expected lifespan, to be technical, lol). Yes, he's evidently been cheating death by guzzling potions and whatnot. How old is he? I'd calculate it myself, but 1) I don't know where Ed's 2004 reference would fit into Dale Reckoning, and 2) I haven't read many later-edition sourcebooks which might clarify this detail. Mirt's birthday would be ideal. |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 01 Dec 2010 19:34:22 |
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Sandro
Learned Scribe
New Zealand
266 Posts |
Posted - 01 Dec 2010 : 19:44:34
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quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
Hi, all.
VERY well put, Erik.
Add to that Brimstone's reminder that we're seeing the first of six books, and a point I'll make to dennis: bored by Ed's "unnecessary" stuff is a personal reaction, but to judge it "unnecessary" in the first place is to prejudge what Ed's going to write in the next five books (something reinforced by your verdict of the plot, which obviously hasn't been entirely revealed yet [[trust me, I read a LOT of fantasy, and have edited my fair share of it, too, and it was obvious to ME what Ed was up to without having to discuss it with him]]). And you entirely missed the point of the prologue (sellswords? did you miss what they actually were? hmmm; how closely did you read the rest of the book, I wonder, if you missed THAT?).
Any reader who's perused most of Ed's Realms novels should know that nothing included in Ed's novels is "unnecessary." Unnecessary to THAT PARTICULAR BOOK, perhaps, but Ed's books link, "set up," and support all sorts of future Realms products with tiny bits of lore, inferences, and background, and always have.
I think the real flaw in dennis's "verdict" of ELMINSTER MUST DIE! is in judging it as a standalone book rather than the first of a six-book series, without qualifiers. By all means dislike it, but being as you're reviewing the 184th (I think; it may be 185th, or 186th) book of someone who's been writing professionally for over forty years, bear in mind that it MIGHT be a dud . . . but then again, the writer just might know what he's doing.
love,
THO
I've a feeling this has been asked before, elsewhere, but if not: are the six books of the series all going to be working continuously on the same overarching plot, or will the be somehow ideologically "split", i.e. two (somewhat) self-contained trilogies?
Either one is, of course, great; basically, it's just a question of whether we'll have to wait another five years or only another two years before we figure out what all your winks and giggles are about. |
"Gods, little fishes, and spells to turn the one to the other," Mordenkainen sighed. "It's started already..." |
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3240 Posts |
Posted - 01 Dec 2010 : 21:21:34
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| Well, considering that Mirt and Durnan came OUT of Undermountain in 1321 (per Grand History), that means he's got at least 150 years plus however old he was at the time... |
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
Ashe's Character Sheet
Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 01 Dec 2010 : 21:59:47
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WAY off-topic, but . . .
quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart
Well, considering that Mirt and Durnan came OUT of Undermountain in 1321 (per Grand History), that means he's got at least 150 years plus however old he was at the time...
Well, every time he and a certain of my characters meet, Mirt calls her "my fey-eyed young lass" (amonst other things, but that was the most mixed-company-appropriate thing he called her at the time), and she's 182 in the Year of the Ageless One. 
Just my 2 coppers.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 02 Dec 2010 : 00:47:33
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quote:
Originally posted by THO
I think the real flaw in dennis's "verdict" of ELMINSTER MUST DIE! is in judging it as a standalone book rather than the first of a six-book series, without qualifiers.
I did think about the future books in the series when writing my comments about this book. I did find some things which are a little bit interesting and hint at future events that might be similarly interesting.
That is why I said (despite my MISS verdict) that I would have to wait and see if I would read B.E.D. Those mildly interesting motes of lore, however, did not serve enough to rescue me from extreme boredom. I don't know with you, but I read fantasy not just to learn (and most definitely not to be bombarded with boring matters) but also – and above all else – to have fun. A book that takes that away is a sure MISS for me. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 02 Dec 2010 : 01:34:23
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quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart
Well, considering that Mirt and Durnan came OUT of Undermountain in 1321 (per Grand History), that means he's got at least 150 years plus however old he was at the time...
That was part of what made me first speculate that Mirt was at least 120, which led to the comment from Ed.
(Except I found other references, from before the published Grand History ) |
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Sandro
Learned Scribe
New Zealand
266 Posts |
Posted - 02 Dec 2010 : 04:50:31
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While on the topic of Mirt, and his age, I think some old posts (from '06, no less) that I found while searching around for some Netheril things (I've been having some thoughts about how the now "established" Netheril is different from Ed's original, and it does appear that there are some major differences, but I digress).
From an old thread on Netherese survivors (which can be found here):
quote:
Red Odom was seeking to compile a list of known Netherese survivors, and Wooly responded with this, taken from Ed's own scroll,
quote:
The pages of ELMINSTER: THE MAKING OF A MAGE and SHADOWS OF DOOM both contain Netherese survivors (one each), and I can reveal here that I know of at least two who reside quietly (pretending to be "just plain folks") in Waterdeep and Suzail, respectively. No, I'm not going to give names, because for a DM it's far more useful to have them as ‘handy tools.'
The Waterdhavian one founded a successful mercantile family now regarded as noble, and then (having prepared for this with covert investments, coin caches, and property purchases) faked his own death, to reappear as a retired merchant, a role he's played several times since. Like Elminster, he meddles covertly in city politics and society, spreading rumors and ‘turning' particular individuals to hold more cosmopolitan world-views (investing in other lands, and taking an interest in folk from those places). He does this because he very much wants to avoid Waterdhavian haughtiness from growing any greater than it is already.
After which, Volo remarked that,
quote:
The scary thing is that I read the description of the Waterdhavian mage, and I can't seem to clear away the thought that it might be Mirt....
To which the lovely Hooded One oh so helpfully replied,
quote:
Chuckle. Chuckle chuckle chuckle chuckle.
love,
THO
Possibly nothing, but some fun speculation nevertheless. |
"Gods, little fishes, and spells to turn the one to the other," Mordenkainen sighed. "It's started already..." |
Edited by - Sandro on 02 Dec 2010 04:55:09 |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3286 Posts |
Posted - 02 Dec 2010 : 06:21:26
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Intriguing... |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7969 Posts |
Posted - 02 Dec 2010 : 08:36:30
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I'm pretty confident Mirt's not that old, Sandro.
In 1302DR "Durnan and Mirt the Merciless, emerged from Undermountain bearing great wealth..." and "Durnan and Mirt the Merciless return from Undermountain and retire as rich men." No mention of how long Mirt was the Merciless, damn. No mention of his (or his friends) age any time in his life ... he was just born as a wheezing old NPC and hasn't aged a day since. |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 02 Dec 2010 08:42:26 |
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Sandro
Learned Scribe
New Zealand
266 Posts |
Posted - 02 Dec 2010 : 09:28:52
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quote:
Originally posted by Arik
I'm pretty confident Mirt's not that old, Sandro.
Ah, well, you never can know, can you?
'Tis a fun theory, if naught else. |
"Gods, little fishes, and spells to turn the one to the other," Mordenkainen sighed. "It's started already..." |
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Elminster Must Die---Hit or Miss? [Spoilers]
