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Gray Richardson
Master of Realmslore
USA
1291 Posts |
 Posted - 31 Mar 2011 : 00:15:00
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| Not meaning to quibble, just pointing out that adulthood starts at 16, because the minimum dice roll will always be at least a 1, so minimum starting age can't be less than 15+1=16. (Except for Cleric, Druid, Monk, Psion, Wizard, with their +2d6 adding at least a minimum of 2 to their base which will be at least 17--I guess they need an extra year of maturity or studies before they can begin.) |
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Gray Richardson
Master of Realmslore
USA
1291 Posts |
Posted - 31 Mar 2011 : 00:47:14
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Also, not to complicate things, but the Planewalkers' Handbook gives a different age table for the Githzerai than that presented in the XPH. Though I should mention the Githyanki stats (I believe) have never been presented anywhere other than the XPH.
However, in the Planewalkers' Handbook it states that starting age for Githzerai is base 30 +2d8 variable; Middle age is 125; Old is 167; Venerable is 250; and Maximum age is 250 +1d100.
I don't know how to explain the discrepancy between the 2e and 3e lore. It could be that the 2e lore is simply deemed incorrect and replaced or corrected by the 3e lore. But another possible explanation is that perhaps the 2e lore represents Githzerai who live natively in Limbo in the presence of their Wizard-King. They need to train longer to learn how to manipulate the chaos of that plane, and undergo their monastic training. And perhaps through that training and lifestyle they have extended their lifespan, living longer as a special consequence of learning the techniques to force their will upon Limbo and shape reality. The XPH stats, on the other hand, may be the natural racial lifespan for Githzerai who leave Limbo and go adventuring. They may age more quickly because they must endure more regular time flows without the ability to control and warp reality that their home-plane brethren have access to.
I double checked, and Manual of the Planes lists Limbo as having normal time flow. However, it may be that time flow in Limbo is subject to change by experienced controllers and those with anarch abilities.
The plane of Warrior's Rest, where the Githzerai live in Toril's Cosmology is similarly highly morphic and subject to a similar kind of control as can be exerted in the Great Wheel plane of Limbo. |
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Fellfire
Master of Realmslore
1965 Posts |
Posted - 31 Mar 2011 : 04:52:00
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| Indeed. I did not replicate the table itself since it is somewhat unwieldy, especially with no tab key. Under the Adulthood column for Gith and Gith 15 years is the number given. It could be argued that an adult is an adult no matter their chosen profession. If Starting Age is a better word for ye, use that instead. Glean from it what you will. |
Misanthorpe
Love is a lie. Only hate endures. Light is blinding. Only in darkness do we see clearly.
"Oh, you think darkness is your ally? You merely adopted the dark. I was born in it, molded by it. I didn't see the light until I was already a man, by then it was nothing to me but.. blinding. The shadows betray you because they belong to me." - Bane The Dark Knight Rises
Green Dragonscale Dice Bag by Crystalsidyll - check it out
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Edited by - Fellfire on 31 Mar 2011 04:54:02 |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7969 Posts |
Posted - 31 Mar 2011 : 06:42:24
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The aging table for 2E githzerai PCs (which I had forgotten about) is probably where my notion of gith longevity originated. I suspect the 2E/3E discrepencies are an accidental oversight or a deliberate attempt to bring the giths to human-like scales. Gray's speculation to explain this discrepency is good, but I'm not sure I can accept it, lol.
Giths on Warrior's Rest? Seriously?
Fellfire, thanx for the detail, it actually helps me a lot. But ... gith barbarians, druids, and bards? I hate to bring up such a general question, but would giths and gishes seem more inclined toward sorcery or wizardry? |
[/Ayrik] |
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Fellfire
Master of Realmslore
1965 Posts |
Posted - 31 Mar 2011 : 12:38:57
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To say nothing of paladins and clerics. I also think one psionic class could've conveyed the idea, but what do I know?
Still, there are many other races represented there, but I think it is needlessly complicated. Perhaps it makes a big difference in some of the more structured caste-type societies. In any case, I'm glad it is helpful. |
Misanthorpe
Love is a lie. Only hate endures. Light is blinding. Only in darkness do we see clearly.
"Oh, you think darkness is your ally? You merely adopted the dark. I was born in it, molded by it. I didn't see the light until I was already a man, by then it was nothing to me but.. blinding. The shadows betray you because they belong to me." - Bane The Dark Knight Rises
Green Dragonscale Dice Bag by Crystalsidyll - check it out
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Edited by - Fellfire on 31 Mar 2011 12:56:04 |
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Lady Morbannaon
Acolyte
United Kingdom
42 Posts |
Posted - 13 Apr 2011 : 19:13:33
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| Just to jump in briefly (and I will admit I've not had chance to sit and read this whole discussion) at these guys (Githzerai & Githyanki) OGL? O was going to start another discussion to ask this...but since this topic is here I thought I'd sneakily ask! |
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Hawkins
Great Reader
USA
2131 Posts |
Posted - 13 Apr 2011 : 20:11:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Lady Morbannaon
Just to jump in briefly (and I will admit I've not had chance to sit and read this whole discussion) at these guys (Githzerai & Githyanki) OGL? O was going to start another discussion to ask this...but since this topic is here I thought I'd sneakily ask!
Unfortunately, no,they (along with the Illithid/Mind Flayer) are not OGL. |
Errant d20 Designer - My Blog (last updated January 06, 2016)
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He left it dead, and with its head
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Lady Morbannaon
Acolyte
United Kingdom
42 Posts |
Posted - 13 Apr 2011 : 21:36:09
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| Yeah I didn't think they were but it's been a while since I've gone through the OGL stuff so couldn't quite remember - thanks! |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7969 Posts |
Posted - 13 Apr 2011 : 23:38:03
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WotC's 3.5E SRD explicitly names the githyanki and githzerai (and by extension any other gith races) as their "exclusive product identity" (ie, trademarked intellectual property), compliant with OGL 1.0a legal conditions, as outlined in the legal.rtf component, readable here.
Official SRD download site.
quote:
Arik (here)
I've also discovered a scroll from the EN World archives ... It mentions some non-canonical gith races: githzada, githtorai, githgagra, githduros/dakeen, and githilid ... all seemingly lost to folded publishers and dead weblinks. Does anyone have any lore about lost gith races?
However, these (and possibly other) gith races appeared in OGL while the 3.0E SRD was in effect, prior to the 3.5E SRD (product identity) legal amendments. I could find little other than names for these races; if they even exist it would be in long out of print 3.0E books by now extinct publishers. I'd love to know more about these races and these books. |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 13 Apr 2011 23:56:51 |
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Lady Morbannaon
Acolyte
United Kingdom
42 Posts |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7969 Posts |
Posted - 14 Apr 2011 : 00:37:51
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lol, thanx LM ... that's the same EN World link I already provided (twice). The results of my exhaustive research:
Githzada and githduros appear to be entirely unknown to the internet (or at least to google, the big metasearch engines, and the searchable wayback archives) ... beyond what is said of them in that EN World scroll and in this one.
Githtorai are briefly mentioned (by a lost/unknown poster) in the Mystara Realms-L Archives, and in this anonymous Illithid Player Character pdf download.
Githgagra are briefly described (by their author, wizbane75@h... , as part of his Illithid Empire Campaign) in a yahoo Maps/Gods/Stories scroll. They are mentioned by ripvanwormer in the planewalker Githlist archives scroll (I've already attempted to contact ripvanwormer for more information). They are also briefly mentioned in this Russian scroll.
Gith'ilid are fully described in this planewalker wiki page and appear scattered throughout the planewalker and Candlekeep archives. Again, for some odd reason, they're quite popular with the Russians. |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 14 Apr 2011 00:44:13 |
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Fellfire
Master of Realmslore
1965 Posts |
Posted - 14 Apr 2011 : 01:04:25
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| Jumpin' Blue Jellyfish, Arik. I can't find a thing about Fiend Games, Project Planeshifter or Gaming Frontiers beyond the fact that they once existed. I was pretty thorough. |
Misanthorpe
Love is a lie. Only hate endures. Light is blinding. Only in darkness do we see clearly.
"Oh, you think darkness is your ally? You merely adopted the dark. I was born in it, molded by it. I didn't see the light until I was already a man, by then it was nothing to me but.. blinding. The shadows betray you because they belong to me." - Bane The Dark Knight Rises
Green Dragonscale Dice Bag by Crystalsidyll - check it out
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The Gith races
