| Author |
 Topic  |
|
Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7969 Posts |
 Posted - 17 Oct 2010 : 16:03:14
|
I have found these dusty old scrolls in the Candlekeep library and read them carefully:I have also read much old (1e/2e) lore from my tomes and other libaries about the Githyanki and the Githzerai, and what little lore I could find about spelljamming Gith Pirates and a degenerate reptilian Gith-like race on distant and dangerous Athas.
There is also talk of an individual Githvyrik - yet another distinct Gith race?
I have seen references to Githyanki variations - g''lathk, hr'a'cknir, mlar, duthka'gith, kr'y'izoth, tl'a'ikith - about which I know nothing.
I have studied their history, about their Illithid enslavement, about Gith (the leader from whom the race is named) and later Zerthimon. Some references claim the (originally human, or perhaps elven) ancestors of the Gith races are now known only as the Forerunners, and a few may even still dwell in a strange place called Penumbra or even on their lost world of Pharagos. More of their tale is apparently written in tomes I do not possess in my library - Incursion d20; White Dwarf #12, #76; Dungeon #100; Dragon #281, #306, #309; and a unspecified writing of Polyhedron.
For a few silvers at a very strange pub in Waterdeep I heard a most unbelievable tale called Planescape: Torment in which a philosophical Githzerai named Dak'kon imparted numerous insights about the wisdom of Zerthimon. There cannot be two skies.
Lore about the Githyanki Lich Queen, Vlaakith CLVII, describes her people once serving Tiamat and having forged an alliance with red dragons - a worrisome alliance for the Realms.
I am interested in learning more about the language(s) of the Gith races. Especially the written form, which is apparently called tir'su.
I understand that Wizbro of Bane considers the Gith races a legal property and severely limits (recent) third-party research for new lore on the topic. Yet any lost lore about the origins, history, society, and language of the Gith races is interesting (especially any that describes the race before they divided). Almost as interesting is more lore about the craft behind their famous Silver Swords and other unique magics. Almost.
|
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 17 Oct 2010 16:38:45
|
|
|
Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 17 Oct 2010 : 16:35:01
|
The Sojourner, the baddie in the Erevis Cale trilogy, was a githvyrik.
Pirates of Gith are a spelljamming race, and are described in one of the two Spelljammer Monstrous Compendium Appendices -- I don't recall which, of the top of my head. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
 |
|
|
Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7969 Posts |
Posted - 17 Oct 2010 : 16:43:03
|
Gith Pirates are described in MC7. And their ships and tactics here and there throughout Spelljammer stuff. That's pretty much all I know about them.
Is the Githryvik an entire race or just some sort of title or prestige class? Or yet another taboo undisclosed/NDA subject? |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 17 Oct 2010 16:45:24 |
|
|
|
The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 17 Oct 2010 : 16:55:41
|
quote:
Originally posted by Arik
I have also heard talk of an individual Githvyrik - another distinct Gith race?
Tidbits from Paul Kemp [note -- SPOILERS for the "Erevis Cale" trilogy follow]:-
quote:
"I'm delighted you're a Cale fan. Lots more to come on that front, starting with Midnight's Mask this November and a follow up trilogy beginning next year.
I do not intend to detail the origin of the Gith. The Sojourner (Vhostym) is a creature that I've called a githvyrik, another offshoot of the gith split. In my conception, the githvyrik numbered vastly fewer than either the githzerai or the githyanki, and while those races took to a single plane and established their societies and culture, the more powerful individualists among them at the time of the split did their own thing, travelling worlds and planes (like the Sojourner), taking up residence in the underdark, etc. In fact, calling the githvyrik a race is somewhat of a misnomer. I regard each of them as unique -- powerful and very old spellcasters, yes; derived from the same genetic stock as the other gith, yes; but otherwise quite different. For all intents and purposes, Vhostym might as well be solitary and, in fact, almost all githvyrik are.
Anyway, Vhostym has a bunch of scenes in Midnight's Mask, so if you want to more about him as an individual, you'll have plenty to read."
And:-
quote:
Like the githzerai and githyanki, the githvyrik split from their progenitor gith kin when they freed themselves from the mindflayers. Unlike the githzerai and githyanki, however, the githvyrik number only a handful or so, and all of them are so unique that calling them a race is really more a convenience to reflect their shared origin rather than a suggestion that they share physical characteristics or a similar culture.
quote:
I have seen references to Githyanki variations - g''lathk, hr'a'cknir, mlar, duthka'gith, kr'y'izoth, tl'a'ikith - about which I know nothing.
These are largely all detailed in the original Planescape Monstrous Compendium I. Essentially, the g''lathk is a githyanki farmer. The mlar are architects who utilise their arcane talents for buildings purposes in githyanki communities. The hr'a'cknir are the collectors of the many and varied psychic energies that weave through the depths of the Astral Plane. Duthka'gith are half-dragon/githyanki, while tl'a'ikith are undead githyanki who serve the Lich-Queen as ghostly warriors wielding spectral swords, and kr'y'izoth are transformed warlocks -- beings of black flame wrapped in tattered wrappings.
quote:
Lore about the Githyanki Lich Queen, Vlaakith CLVII, describes her people once serving Tiamat and having forged an alliance with red dragons - a worrisome alliance for the Realms.
What we know, is that Vlaakith began counselling Gith with regard to becoming allies with Tiamat in Baator. Gith then descends into Baator to meet with Tiamat. She never returns, but Ephelomon, the red dragon consort of Tiamat, visits the githyanki and claims Gith has placed Vlaakith in command, sealing the pact between the Children of Gith and red dragonkind.
See A Guide to the Astral Plane for a more detailed coverage of these events.
quote:
I am interested in learning more about the language(s) of the Gith races. Especially the written form, which is apparently called tir'su.
You may find this of interest:- http://www.planewalker.com/forum/gith-languages-0
quote:
I understand that Wizbro of Bane considers the Gith races a legal property and severely limits (recent) third-party research for new lore on the topic. Yet any lost lore about the origins, history, society, and language of the Gith races is interesting (especially any that describes the race before they divided). Almost as interesting is more lore about the craft behind their famous Silver Swords and other unique magics. Almost.
If you can find it, A Guide to the Astral Plane will prove to be the most informed source on all-things-githyanki. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
|
|
|
Quale
Master of Realmslore
1757 Posts |
Posted - 17 Oct 2010 : 17:55:45
|
quote:
Originally posted by Arik
I understand that Wizbro of Bane considers the Gith races a legal property and severely limits (recent) third-party research for new lore on the topic. Yet any lost lore about the origins, history, society, and language of the Gith races is interesting (especially any that describes the race before they divided). Almost as interesting is more lore about the craft behind their famous Silver Swords and other unique magics. Almost.
not sure about WotC's IP, they were created by GRRM, I remember reading about githyanki soulsucks in Dreamsongs
Also there is a possible link between Gith and Glyth in Realmspace
I had pre-humans of Toril war against Penumbra, Glyth was their outpost |
|
|
|
Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7969 Posts |
Posted - 17 Oct 2010 : 18:21:55
|
Quale,
I'm basing my Wizbro statement on what I read in Wikipedia/Githyanki (linked in my OP). I think the original concept might be based on GRRM's work, but the distinctive name and trademark are pure D&D, maybe. 
Sage (and Paul Kemp),
Thanks for the Githvyrik lore. 
So the different types of Githyanki are basically just three social castes, and two undead/transformed prestige classes (sorta), and one (Duthka'gith) Half-Githyanki/Half-Dragon crossbreed (an exceptionally nasty sounding creature).
...
Does anybody know where I can buy/download this Incursion d20 game?
The "Forerunner" race seems to be described as human, though I'm a little inclined towards saying they were elven ... given Gith affinities for magic, chaos, Silver Swords, tactics, and, well their whole general style and appearance (including the pointy ears). |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 17 Oct 2010 18:42:20 |
|
|
|
Shemmy
Senior Scribe
USA
492 Posts |
Posted - 17 Oct 2010 : 21:08:54
|
quote:
Originally posted by Arik
The "Forerunner" race seems to be described as human, though I'm a little inclined towards saying they were elven ... given Gith affinities for magic, chaos, Silver Swords, tactics, and, well their whole general style and appearance (including the pointy ears).
The githyanki/githzerai and various smaller offshoots all came from an originally human stock. |
Shemeska the Marauder, King of the Crosstrade; voted #1 best Arcanaloth in Sigil two hundred years running by the people who know what's best for them; chant broker; prospective Sigil council member next election; and official travel agent for Chamada Holiday specials LLC.
|
|
|
|
Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 17 Oct 2010 : 21:31:01
|
Yup -the Gith were a world-specific breed of humanity. There are other examples of this in canon lore, like that big handed (and footed) race in the psionic book. In fact, there are at least two world-specific psionic human 'races'.
FR humans are to Gith what Eladrin are to Elves - same race at its core. Demi-human and Humanoid races (not to mention draconic, reptilian, ect) can have large variations within a race, why can't fantasy humans? In the Judge's Guild (Citystate) products, they have blue humans, red humans, green humans, ect...
Anyhow, there is also a race simply called 'gith' that are very primitive, even bestial. I don't know if it is a devolved version of the Gith, or a progenitor subtype (like a Neanderthal), since we don't know enough about Gith history to know what they were like pre-slavery. However, considering they look far more like a Githyanki then a human, I would hazard to guess it is some sort of devolved mutation.
I have no idea which MM they were in, but it was 2e.
EDIT: Note that the Sojournor was originally from the Realms, which opens up distinct possibilities. Could the 'Gith' simply have been a group of Torilian humans that were captured in the Dawn Ages by the Illithids?
Very interesting possibilities there...... |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
|
Edited by - Markustay on 17 Oct 2010 21:34:57 |
|
|
|
Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7969 Posts |
Posted - 17 Oct 2010 : 22:28:01
|
Huh? Whadduyuh mean? Elves aren't just humans with pointy ears? 
Your primitive, bestial, devolved "Gith" are from Dark Sun, native to Athas (and briefly mentioned in my OP). They aren't very civilized but they pack a mean punch. Post-apocalyptic Dark Sun lore claims that all of the intelligent races (except Thri-Kreen) are somehow descended from Halflings. I personally think the degenerate "Gith" are far more likely to have an astral/planar origin, though, lack of any known planar link to Athas notwithstanding. |
[/Ayrik] |
|
|
|
Shemmy
Senior Scribe
USA
492 Posts |
Posted - 18 Oct 2010 : 01:42:55
|
quote:
Originally posted by Arik
I personally think the degenerate "Gith" are far more likely to have an astral/planar origin, though, lack of any known planar link to Athas notwithstanding.
IIRC, the Athasian gith were degenerate offshoots of githyanki that were stranded on Athas and unable to return to the Astral.
And while utterly rare, there were at least two defined planar links to Athas (one being the artifact planar gateway in the possession of Dregoth, the other being a portal from Sigil to Athas). I've always handled Athas as essentially a closed sphere, with it being far easier to get in than get out, with virtually all normal links restricted or blocked for normal planar travel, up to and including its border ethereal being a case of one-way transit, and incredibly remote from anywhere else in the first place. |
Shemeska the Marauder, King of the Crosstrade; voted #1 best Arcanaloth in Sigil two hundred years running by the people who know what's best for them; chant broker; prospective Sigil council member next election; and official travel agent for Chamada Holiday specials LLC.
|
|
|
|
The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 18 Oct 2010 : 01:52:39
|
quote:
Originally posted by Arik
So the different types of Githyanki are basically just three social castes, and two undead/transformed prestige classes (sorta), and one (Duthka'gith) Half-Githyanki/Half-Dragon crossbreed (an exceptionally nasty sounding creature).
Pretty much.
quote:
Does anybody know where I can buy/download this Incursion d20 game?
You can try nobleknight.com, which offers second-hand copies of such DUNGEON issues at reasonable prices.
|
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
|
|
|
Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7969 Posts |
Posted - 18 Oct 2010 : 05:22:27
|
Shemmy,
Drifting Off-Topic momentarily ... I'd always thought the only (known) planar link to Athas was basically a one-way trip through the Demiplane of Dread? A game-balancing mechanic to keep the "powerful" Athasians from mixing with everybody else? Sources?
Stranded degenerate Githzerai are easily believable ... but why are they described as "reptilian"?
Sage,
Thanx again - my unseen servants have been deployed across the ether in search of this ancient Incursion lore. |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 18 Oct 2010 05:25:55 |
|
|
|
Shemmy
Senior Scribe
USA
492 Posts |
Posted - 18 Oct 2010 : 06:54:14
|
quote:
Originally posted by Arik
Shemmy,
Drifting Off-Topic momentarily ... I'd always thought the only (known) planar link to Athas was basically a one-way trip through the Demiplane of Dread? A game-balancing mechanic to keep the "powerful" Athasians from mixing with everybody else? Sources?
Off the top of my head, I think it's mentioned in Faction War, describing a small district in the Lower Ward comprised of Athasians who managed transit via one of Sigil's portals (no details on the portal key, frequency of appearance, etc and some of the city's more unique portals only appear for a day ever century for instance).
Additionally, in 'Factols Manifesto' Alisohn Nilesia the factol of the Mercykillers claims to have killed her predecessor Factol Mallin and ordered his corpse disposed of on Athas so that that 'blighted world might give him the serenity he so desires.' If Mallin himself was from Athas is an open question, and I'm not sure it was addressed anywhere. Books not handy at the moment to dig deep on him, and he doesn't appear in many sources since Nilesia killed him off pretty quickly into the setting's run.
quote:
[Arik]
Stranded degenerate Githzerai are easily believable ... but why are they described as "reptilian"?
I think their origins were laid out in more detail somewhere as being explicitly from githyanki, but I'm not as up on Dark Sun as some other settings. As for the reptillian bit, might have been mutation/divergence, might have been a mix of draconic blood, might have been a mix of something on Athas into their line, etc. |
Shemeska the Marauder, King of the Crosstrade; voted #1 best Arcanaloth in Sigil two hundred years running by the people who know what's best for them; chant broker; prospective Sigil council member next election; and official travel agent for Chamada Holiday specials LLC.
|
|
|
|
Quale
Master of Realmslore
1757 Posts |
Posted - 18 Oct 2010 : 08:23:49
|
| Shemmy's servant, Jemorille the Exile, says that he's counseled Rajaat |
|
|
|
Cleric Generic
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
565 Posts |
|
|
Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7969 Posts |
Posted - 18 Oct 2010 : 11:58:52
|
Hmmm. So precedents for planar links to Athas have been established.
I dunno about Athas Gith descending from dragons (which hardly exist on Athas anyhow), but, who knows how they might have mutated in a magic-starved world? We are talking about a world where halflings eventually evolved into half-giants, anything's possible. We don't have to assume that the progenitors of these Gith weren't reptilian, or even that they were stranded on Athas by accident. |
[/Ayrik] |
|
|
|
Quale
Master of Realmslore
1757 Posts |
Posted - 18 Oct 2010 : 23:05:11
|
maybe the Soujourner experimented on them, he was psionic/arcane, and he could change slaad forms
I've seen people ask about Abeir being Athas |
|
|
|
Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7969 Posts |
Posted - 19 Oct 2010 : 08:13:25
|
I'm more inclined to think that Abeir really has nothing in common with Athas at all.
Although ... due to alphabetical happenstance they might possibly exist side by side in some editor's extraplanar filing cabinet or some other mysterious demiplane, and from time to time the extraplanar barriers separating the two may grow thin or frayed enough to allow creatures and things to travel, with some effort, between these two worlds. Indeed, the entire universe may tremble when the creator overgods of these mysterious half-forgotten places choose to rearrange where these worlds exist within the cosmos, or steal power from one another, or simply amuse themselves playing incomprehensible games.
Gith(zerai)+Slaad descent is a nifty idea. Shemmy's suggestions (above) are all quite good, too. |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 19 Oct 2010 08:16:17 |
|
|
|
Silverblade The Enchanter
Seeker
United Kingdom
61 Posts |
Posted - 19 Oct 2010 : 13:06:09
|
IIRC, the Athasian gith are described in the mega-adventure BLACK SPINE, which I have but would need to dig out.
They are more reptilian, hunched over, use psionics to aid their junping attacks, which they use to charge and impale folk on huge headed spears, but are other wise culturally very degenerate, with soem defilers (destructive wizards) and psions, but that's about it.
However some say they have a small city or such in one of the novels??
yeah they are stranded planar travellers, mutated ot present form.
The adventure has the Githyanki coming looking for them etc.
Athas is officially a "closed" sphere so you can't get there via Spelljamming.
I'ts also closed off from the Astral almost totally, and very severely from the Ehtereal which is the only practical way to reach Athas via the Planes but is incredibly difficult,
though there's also a few old gates or non-functioning gates to the Abyss.
Like many folk, I do *not* accept the "official" timeline/hsitory of Athas, as TSR's damnable frekain' metaplots ruined it, same as they did with Planescape and Ravenloft, so, hey, best to leave the history of Athas ot each DM!
Mystery is much better, especially in regards to Athas' past: it just *IS*, no one gives a damn about the past because just staying alive *today* is hard enough under the terrible Dark Sun! ;)
if you need I can go try and find my copy of Black Spine for info? :) |
www.silverblades-suitcase.com
Spelljammer & Dark Sun art, and much more! |
|
|
|
Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7969 Posts |
Posted - 19 Oct 2010 : 22:19:07
|
Actually one of the players in my group has all the Dark Sun lore (including Black Spine), another has all the Planescape lore (including A Guide to the Astral Plane). I'll see if I can borrow these tomes for a while.
Ruinous metaplots? By Drognard's Dice! Such a thing cannot be. |
[/Ayrik] |
|
|
|
Shemmy
Senior Scribe
USA
492 Posts |
Posted - 19 Oct 2010 : 22:24:36
|
quote:
Originally posted by Silverblade The Enchanter
Like many folk, I do *not* accept the "official" timeline/hsitory of Athas, as TSR's damnable frekain' metaplots ruined it, same as they did with Planescape
I rather loved the Planescape metaplot. :) |
Shemeska the Marauder, King of the Crosstrade; voted #1 best Arcanaloth in Sigil two hundred years running by the people who know what's best for them; chant broker; prospective Sigil council member next election; and official travel agent for Chamada Holiday specials LLC.
|
|
|
|
Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 19 Oct 2010 : 22:52:48
|
quote:
Originally posted by Arik
Hmmm. So precedents for planar links to Athas have been established.
Yup - the one to the demiplane of dread stands out most in my mind. Athas may be a one-way trip, but Ravenloft is the ultimate Roach-Motel.
quote:
Originally posted by Arik
I dunno about Athas Gith descending from dragons (which hardly exist on Athas anyhow), but, who knows how they might have mutated in a magic-starved world? We are talking about a world where halflings eventually evolved into half-giants, anything's possible. We don't have to assume that the progenitors of these Gith weren't reptilian, or even that they were stranded on Athas by accident.
I had always thought it had something to do with the Illithids who enslaverd them. In my HB lore aberrational blood (which I call 'Morphic Blood') allows for cross-breeding and causes mutations (when too much is applied). Ergo, being stranded on Athas (with its lack of water) caused their tainted blood to kick-in and reptile-like mutations occurred.
BUT that's what I used to think, until now.
Thinking more on what Shemmy said, I think its far more likely their mutation is draconic in origin. Something unique to Athas' sphere ties in with dragons - psionicaly powerful humans 'ascend' through a series of mutations and actually BECOME Dragons! (The Dragonkings tome centered around this).
So what we have there is a world-specific precedent of normal humans being able to become Dragons through some sort of psionic metamorphosis, so it makes perfect sense (IMHO) that the already-psionicaly gifted Gith would be able to accomplish this same thing, albeit only partially.
Which now makes me wonder about Darksun's draconic leanings. I think I may be able to use this as yet-another building block for my cosmic model. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
|
Edited by - Markustay on 19 Oct 2010 22:53:57 |
|
|
|
Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7969 Posts |
Posted - 19 Oct 2010 : 23:42:09
|
Markustay,
My knowledge of Athas is far from complete - and I might be very wrong here - but I'd thought that transformation into a dragon is not psionic at all, it's magical (specifically, a 10th level Defiler spell). Moreover, it should be noted that Athas Gith have no magical ability at all and their psionic ability is somewhat inferior to their "normal" Githzerai predecessors (indeed, somewhat inferior to most other natives of Athas).
Not trying to shoot down your suggestion, though, it's still interesting. I'd never before thought of the Dark Sun's radiations having some sort of strange effect causing fantastic mutation or forced evolution ... that's an awesome idea!
As to the "Morphic" aberration blood, hmmm .... we know that Illithids conducted breeding experiments, perhaps too successfully as their psionically capable slaves rebelled. It's not impossible that they would be conducting experiments on the Gith again, perhaps attempting to finish or "fix" their first project. Stranding these Githish slaves in an isolated place like Athas would be ideal, preventing them from escaping, preventing others from rescuing them. Just my thoughts. |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 19 Oct 2010 23:48:35 |
|
|
|
Shemmy
Senior Scribe
USA
492 Posts |
Posted - 20 Oct 2010 : 00:21:11
|
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Thinking more on what Shemmy said, I think its far more likely their mutation is draconic in origin. Something unique to Athas' sphere ties in with dragons - psionicaly powerful humans 'ascend' through a series of mutations and actually BECOME Dragons! (The Dragonkings tome centered around this).
Just to be more clear, my notion above was that the Athasian gith could have looked vaguely reptilian as a result of some of those originally stranded there being githyanki/red dragon hybrids in the first place, and that sort of population bottleneck resulting in a subsequent propagation of those genes into later generations, albeit in far more watered down form than the original crossbreeds. Add in adaptation to Athas over the generations and other sort of mutations and you end up with the drift of their population versus the githyanki.
That's how I'd approach it at least. Though I've only dumped my players into Athas for all of one game session, involving delivering a sealed box to Dregoth and an implied bargain by the undead sorcerer king with one of the Demented to attempt to become a god (though it wouldn't have worked, and the fiends really didn't give a flip about him, so it was all just random, blind torment). |
Shemeska the Marauder, King of the Crosstrade; voted #1 best Arcanaloth in Sigil two hundred years running by the people who know what's best for them; chant broker; prospective Sigil council member next election; and official travel agent for Chamada Holiday specials LLC.
|
Edited by - Shemmy on 20 Oct 2010 00:25:03 |
|
|
|
Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 20 Oct 2010 : 00:25:59
|
It was combination of BOTH psionic and magical talent that allowed them to begin the transformation into quasi-deities (Dragonkings).
I'm also FAR from being an expert on Darksun matters, but I studied that one tome in particular because it directly related to how I saw mortals ascending in-general.
I think all mortals can ascend, and normally this starts to take place at around level 20 (this is my HB here). Then 'the magic' kicks-in and they begin their ascendance (which ends around level 30) - that's what happens on a normal world (which I extrapolated from the Dragonkings material).
On Athas, where magic is nearly non-existent, the ascendance must be helped along with psionics (that part is Darksun canon). So you must have levels of Defiler in order to begin the metamorphosis. - you need BOTH magic and psionics (and everyone has psionics on Athas). Theoretically, a Preserver should also be able to accomplish much the same thing.
I don't know why they become dragons - it could just be the nearest thing there is to demigods on Athas. No gods, and no primordials (AFAIK), so they have to fall-back onto something older and more primal in their quest for the divine.
I didn't know that Athasian gith were without psionic abilities. I would personally spin that as a 'trade' made by the first Gith on Athas. They literally 'burned out' their psionic powers (and a bit of their mind) in order to acquire certain skills and physical characteristics to further their survival (and reptiles do well in the desert). Sort of like a mini-version of what the Dragonkings accomplish with their own metamorphosis. Forcing the change within themselves made them lose their powers and their sanity.
At least, like I said, that's how I'd spin it. Your mileage may vary. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
|
Edited by - Markustay on 20 Oct 2010 00:27:47 |
|
|
|
Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7969 Posts |
Posted - 20 Oct 2010 : 00:43:19
|
I recall that Preservers transform into some kind of (Dark Sun vicious) angel-like creatures. Defilers transform into dragons. The process for both is voluntary (that is, they can choose to stay human), but once begun (at level 20) it cannot be halted (and only completes at level 30).
In the case of the defilers, the transformation is a agonizing tormenting experience which slowly and painfully twists their minds and bodies into a strong, hardened, ruthless, inhuman, cruel dragon. They retain all their human memories, but "humanity" itself becomes an incomprehensible alien mindset for them, the pain they have been forced to endure has driven them insane with hate and loathing of all living things.
For the preservers it's probably not as painful. But the end result is they become a lofty ethereal kind of creature which, again, is alien and distanced from normal human existence.
That's about all I know about it, for now.
[Edit]
Athasian Gith do have psionics, of course. It's just nerfed in comparison to their normal Githyanki/Githzerai counterparts. They are seriously degenerate scum, disorganized and primitive, roughly analogous to the Dark Sun equivalent of goblins. Which of course means they're still plenty potent in other settings. |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 20 Oct 2010 00:47:19 |
|
|
|
Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7969 Posts |
Posted - 20 Oct 2010 : 13:14:02
|
| I note that rules within The Will and The Way allow users of psionic/psychoportive powers like Summon Planar Creature to bring forth Astral Githyanki and Limbo Githzerai, or to simply move themselves (and party) onto the planes. |
[/Ayrik] |
|
|
|
Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7969 Posts |
Posted - 10 Nov 2010 : 21:34:13
|
I've discovered this dusty old scroll, which contains the following passagequote:
There is an old Dungeon adventure that involved the "Queen" of the Githyanki. The entire adventure occured inside the body of an unnamed dead god. The Githyanki had delved throughout and created a city inside of it. The adventure never named the god and it just floated in the Astral.
Unfortunately the Learned Scribe who wrote this passage appears to have departed the hallowed halls of Candlekeep several years ago. Where might I learn more of this Githyanki city/god? |
[/Ayrik] |
|
|
|
The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 10 Nov 2010 : 23:45:44
|
quote:
Originally posted by Arik
I've discovered this dusty old scroll, which contains the following passagequote:
There is an old Dungeon adventure that involved the "Queen" of the Githyanki. The entire adventure occured inside the body of an unnamed dead god. The Githyanki had delved throughout and created a city inside of it. The adventure never named the god and it just floated in the Astral.
Unfortunately the Learned Scribe who wrote this passage appears to have departed the hallowed halls of Candlekeep several years ago. Where might I learn more of this Githyanki city/god?
Heh. If you searched further through the scroll, you'd see that I noted where said adventure came from -- namely, DUNGEON #100 -- which contained some information on that particular site/deity. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 10 Nov 2010 23:48:32 |
|
|
|
Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7969 Posts |
Posted - 11 Nov 2010 : 03:04:30
|
quote:
Heh. If you searched further through the scroll, you'd see that I noted where said adventure came from
Right in the same page of the same scroll, just one more inch further down. 
Duh. Well that's a little embarassing. I'm such an amateur. Thanx Sage  |
[/Ayrik] |
|
|
|
Seethyr
Master of Realmslore
USA
1151 Posts |
Posted - 11 Nov 2010 : 03:19:37
|
| I don't have my materials with me right now, bit I believe there was also a web enhancement specifically for that Dungeon issue. It was the githyanki city of Tu'Narath itself and I remember loving it. Now, if I could only find that link... |
Follow the Maztica (Aztec/Maya) and Anchorome (Indigenous North America) Campaigns on DMsGuild!
The Maztica Campaign
The Anchorome Campaign |
|
|
|
Topic |
|
|
|
The Gith races
