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BOZ
Acolyte
15 Posts |
 Posted - 06 Oct 2010 : 17:28:56
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What was Jergal's first appearance? He was in the "Netheril" boxed set, and in "Power & Pantheons" in late 2nd edition before appearing in the novel "Crucible: Trial of Cyric the Mad", but I don't think those were his first appearances. Did he appear in the novel "Prince of Lies", or get a mention in any other game books before then?
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http://www.geocities.com/kbozman74/BOZ.html |
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Thauramarth
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
729 Posts |
Posted - 06 Oct 2010 : 18:34:43
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| As far as I remember, Jergal's first appearance was in Prince of Lies. The Netheril boxed set came only later. |
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BOZ
Acolyte
15 Posts |
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 07 Oct 2010 : 09:09:25
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| I seem to remember he being mentioned as the Scribe of the god of Death in the 2nd ed box set, among minor gods and quasi-deities. But I don't have the gods and persons book from that box handy at the moment so I might be wrong. But that would be before both Netheril and Prince of Lies. |
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Thauramarth
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
729 Posts |
Posted - 07 Oct 2010 : 09:49:52
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quote:
Originally posted by Jorkens
I seem to remember he being mentioned as the Scribe of the god of Death in the 2nd ed box set, among minor gods and quasi-deities. But I don't have the gods and persons book from that box handy at the moment so I might be wrong. But that would be before both Netheril and Prince of Lies.
By thunder, sir, you are right! Jergal is mentioned, and the 2E boxed set was published in July 1993; Prince of Lies dates from August 1993. Netheril: Empire of Magic was published in October 1996. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 10 Oct 2010 : 23:21:23
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And you know Jergal existence was forced upon the Realms, right?
Purely metagaming....
Fans kept asking questions like "What happened to the dead during the Avatar Crisis?", and Jergal was the 'patch'.
Otherwise, how the hell could people have died or been judged or anything else relating to the afterlife without anyone in charge?
Note both his first appearances coincide with the ToT re-boot. They needed him, and the novel confirms the source.
Unless someone can find a 1e reference, I'm betting my bottom dollar that's what happened. Not that I mind Jergal - I actually rather like him.
But I still think he was just a 'lore patch' initially. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 10 Oct 2010 23:22:47 |
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Thauramarth
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
729 Posts |
Posted - 11 Oct 2010 : 14:50:06
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
And you know Jergal existence was forced upon the Realms, right?
Purely metagaming....
Fans kept asking questions like "What happened to the dead during the Avatar Crisis?", and Jergal was the 'patch'.
Otherwise, how the hell could people have died or been judged or anything else relating to the afterlife without anyone in charge?
Note both his first appearances coincide with the ToT re-boot. They needed him, and the novel confirms the source.
Unless someone can find a 1e reference, I'm betting my bottom dollar that's what happened. Not that I mind Jergal - I actually rather like him.
But I still think he was just a 'lore patch' initially.
I did not know this, but it does not seem unplausible for Jergal's genesis... This confirmed somewhere?
It's been years since I read the Avatar trilogy, so not sure if the issue of people dying during the crisis was ever handled, but I seem to recollect that when Midnight reached the Fugue Plain (where she ran into the late and lamented Sneakabout) that the dead did continue to arrive in the Fugue Plain, and then were simply stuck there, unclaimed by their patron powers until all the powers were reinstated and bascially drove by the Fugue Plain on the way home to pick up their deceased followers.
Now, I also recollect that there were mentions / scenes in Prince of Lies where the absence of Cyric from his duties (can't remember why - might have had something to do with his shutting himself off to hunt for Kelemvor), people did not die (I particularly remember a scene of a Menzo drow getting a lot more mileage out of a torture victim).
I'd never come upon that particular inconsistency until now. Odd. As I am in the process of unpacking boxes anyway, I might just as well have a look at those books. |
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 11 Oct 2010 : 17:18:08
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| Do any one know why/how Jergal got into the published Realms? Is he from Ed? I get the feeling that he was not from the original Realms. Is he a creation of Jeff Grubb or one of the people working on the Avatar Series? Or am I wrong and he has been a part of the Realms since the start? |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 12 Oct 2010 : 01:12:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Jorkens
Do any one know why/how Jergal got into the published Realms? Is he from Ed? I get the feeling that he was not from the original Realms. Is he a creation of Jeff Grubb or one of the people working on the Avatar Series? Or am I wrong and he has been a part of the Realms since the start?
Yes, Jergal is an Ed creation. But he's received the most "published" attention from Julia Martin, Eric Boyd, George Krashos and others from what little lore Ed provided. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 12 Oct 2010 : 08:34:56
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Jorkens
Do any one know why/how Jergal got into the published Realms? Is he from Ed? I get the feeling that he was not from the original Realms. Is he a creation of Jeff Grubb or one of the people working on the Avatar Series? Or am I wrong and he has been a part of the Realms since the start?
Yes, Jergal is an Ed creation. But he's received the most "published" attention from Julia Martin, Eric Boyd, George Krashos and others from what little lore Ed provided.
Thanks Sage. Do you by chance remember if any lore was supplied for Jergal before the 2nd ed. Campaign set? |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 12 Oct 2010 : 09:08:41
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quote:
Originally posted by Jorkens
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Jorkens
Do any one know why/how Jergal got into the published Realms? Is he from Ed? I get the feeling that he was not from the original Realms. Is he a creation of Jeff Grubb or one of the people working on the Avatar Series? Or am I wrong and he has been a part of the Realms since the start?
Yes, Jergal is an Ed creation. But he's received the most "published" attention from Julia Martin, Eric Boyd, George Krashos and others from what little lore Ed provided.
Thanks Sage. Do you by chance remember if any lore was supplied for Jergal before the 2nd ed. Campaign set?
Nothing official, as I can recall. Though you might want to ask Ed anyway. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 12 Oct 2010 : 10:06:38
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Jorkens
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Jorkens
Do any one know why/how Jergal got into the published Realms? Is he from Ed? I get the feeling that he was not from the original Realms. Is he a creation of Jeff Grubb or one of the people working on the Avatar Series? Or am I wrong and he has been a part of the Realms since the start?
Yes, Jergal is an Ed creation. But he's received the most "published" attention from Julia Martin, Eric Boyd, George Krashos and others from what little lore Ed provided.
Thanks Sage. Do you by chance remember if any lore was supplied for Jergal before the 2nd ed. Campaign set?
Nothing official, as I can recall. Though you might want to ask Ed anyway.
Yea that seems like a good idea. Thanks again. |
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 13 Oct 2010 : 08:34:53
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I asked The Hooded One and got this reply:
"Hi again, all.
Jorkens, I recall hearing about Jergal in Realmsplay years ago (about the time we players received our legal release forms for our characters, in TSR's initial purchase of the Realms, in 1986), so he was definitely part of Ed's original Realms. More than that, I can't say, because in Ed's Realms the creeds, prayers, and portfolios of the gods (and the doings of their clergy) were known to all, but personal details of the gods themselves, and their avatars, was far more sketchy (unless you were a high-ranking priest of a particular god, or a sages of matters religious) - - and because Jergal, among the gods, was a figure of mystery and some controversy (as opposed to, say, Chauntea or Tempus, whom "everybody could grasp" the aims and concerns of).
I know that the "former god of death, now manipulating other deities" notion is Ed, but I believe specific details of Jergal's doings have been added or augmented by Eric Boyd, Julia Martin, and others (George Krashos? Steven Schend?) in the years since Jergal's first print appearance.
love,
THO" |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 14 Oct 2010 : 22:54:41
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I stand corrected. 
Guess they only 'unveiled' him when they had a use for him. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Jergal
