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Brace Cormaeril
Learned Scribe
294 Posts |
 Posted - 04 Oct 2010 : 19:39:46
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In EMD!'s Epilogue, Storm crawls to a bed, opens a coffer, then flings herself upon then forcefully kisses Arclath Delcastle while some ashes flow up a "young dancer" and into 'her'. AND Amarune rose, smiled down at them with Elmister's eyes-which danced with joy-and went out into the night.
What the hell happened in that scene? I, like, is Amarune lying with Arclath, and so is like Storm kissing him because she thinks that he will think that she is Amarune, and so just go back to bed? And not notice that the contents of the funerary coffer Storm has just opened are mystically swirling around? And, like, who are the ashes mystically flowing "up" before flowing into... Storm? Is that right? Do the ashes flow up Amarune and into Storm? So, Amarune then rises, existentially, but with "eyes that danced with joy"?
Just, like, I have no idea what is going on in this scene.
Could someone please explain this scene in EMD!?
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3240 Posts |
Posted - 04 Oct 2010 : 20:35:56
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SPOILERS
Well, the way I understood it, El's been transformed into an "ash-wraith" or something and can only truly interact with the world if he possesses someone. From the scenes before that, he struck a deal with Amarune that she would be his vessel, whenever he desired, until he could find a way to cure himself (or something). When Storm was getting ready to sleep for the night, Mystra contacted her daughter looking for Elminster. Storm then released El's ashes to possess Amarune so he could communicate with Mystra. Storm hopped into bed with Arclath in order to distract him from Amarune's possession. |
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
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HelldoG
Learned Scribe
101 Posts |
Posted - 04 Oct 2010 : 20:59:29
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[Spoiler Alert]
Whait... what?! Do I read correctly that MYSTRA is alive (or resurrected, or some mortal took her place and name)?!
[/Spoiler Alert] |
Away with powergaming propaganda! | I <3 Powergaming!
Don't feed the trolls. Especially the clever ones. |
Edited by - HelldoG on 04 Oct 2010 21:00:01 |
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3240 Posts |
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Brace Cormaeril
Learned Scribe
294 Posts |
Posted - 04 Oct 2010 : 21:11:44
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quote:
Originally posted by HelldoG
[Spoiler Alert]
Whait... what?! Do I read correctly that MYSTRA is alive (or resurrected, or some mortal took her place and name)?!
[/Spoiler Alert]
The original text seems to indicate the ashes flow up "a young dancer", I assume this is Amarune, and into Storm. Why do the ashes flow into Storm? |
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
Posted - 04 Oct 2010 : 21:27:11
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SPOILERS
Right, here we go: the "young dancer" and the "her" are both Amarune (she's the only young female in the way-cabin, being as Storm is centuries old, and she's shown dancing to earn her livelihood earlier in the novel).
Amarune and Arclath are sleeping together (sleeping, not making love). With them on the bed is a coffer containing Elminster's ashes, which are mobile and contain his sentience, and that "flow" to people and allow him to possess them if he can get into their heads (through mouth, nose, and/or ears). Elminster's state and his ability to possess are also established in the last few chapters of the novel, before this scene.
Storm is sleeping in the small one-room cabin, too, but on the floor in her cloak, not in the built-in bed that Amarune and Arclath are occupying.
Storm is awakened by a voice in her head (not in her ears) that she is sure is - - MUST be - - Mystra, calling for Elminster. Overjoyed, and obeying her goddess, she hastens to the bed and opens the coffer, to free Elminster's ashes so he can possess Amarune's body and go to Mystra (he can presumably also hear Mystra, but can't do anything about it until freed from the coffer).
Arclath went to sleep with sword handy, ready to defend self and his lady (Amarune) from any peril, because they're in the (wild) King's Forest. Storm opening the coffer awakens him, he goes for his sword - - and Storm throws herself on top of him to hold him down (which she's quite strong enough to do, remember, with her entwining hair and all, though I suspect Arclath will be surprised that she can do this to him) so he can't stop Amarune leaving the cabin.
Elminster possesses Amarune's body, which is why her eyes look like his when she smiles at the door (because he's happy as anything: his goddess has RETURNED!), before she rushes out into the night. (Yes, nude and unarmed.)
Storm is on the bed holding Arclath down to prevent him giving chase, stopping Amarune, or trying to attack Mystra. She's NOT "distracting" a young sex-mad noble with another female body to take the place of the one he went to sleep beside, she's trying to stop him screwing up Elminster reaching Mystra. Which to her as a Chosen is more important than the lives or feelings of Arclath, Amarune, and everyone else in all Cormyr put together.
I've checked with Ed to confirm all of this, and other than to add "there's more going on in this scene than is revealed to the reader of ELMINSTER MUST DIE!, but you'll all learn more in BURY ELMINSTER DEEP, which looks at both who left the cabin and the two who remained," so I know I've stated this correctly.
The ashes flow into Amarune, not Storm (though they can use Storm's body as a highway to Amarune if need be).
But then, the scene didn't seem at all confusing to me. As Ashe says, it's all been explained in earlier scenes.
love,
THO |
Edited by - The Hooded One on 04 Oct 2010 21:28:41 |
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Brace Cormaeril
Learned Scribe
294 Posts |
Posted - 04 Oct 2010 : 21:52:55
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Gotcha'.
So, the second 'her' in the following quote:
quote:
Elminster Must Die!, Ed Greenwood, pg. 341
"She flung herself on him and kissed him to quell all questions, holding him down with all her strength as Elminster's ashes flowed up the young dancer and into her."
refers to Amarune.
Thanks all for the clarification! |
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Snowblood
Senior Scribe
Australia
388 Posts |
Posted - 05 Oct 2010 : 01:03:56
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| Now everyone should understand why 'She' had chosen disciples and why she exploited them the way she did..... |
Aryvandaar, Ilythiir, Arnothoi, Orva, Sarphil, Anauria/Asram/Hlondath, Uvaeren, Braceldaur, Ilodhar, Lisenaar, Imaskar, Miyeritar, Orishaar, Shantel Othrieir, Keltormir, Eaerlann, Ammarindar, Siluvanede, Sharrven, Illefarn, Ardeep, Rystal Wood, Evereska are all available here for download:http://phasai.deviantart.com/gallery/
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Brace Cormaeril
Learned Scribe
294 Posts |
Posted - 05 Oct 2010 : 02:45:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Snowblood
Now everyone should understand why 'She' had chosen disciples and why she exploited them the way she did.....
I sure don't! Say on, Snowblood! |
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Cleric Generic
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
565 Posts |
Posted - 05 Oct 2010 : 11:24:05
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quote:
Originally posted by HelldoG
[Spoiler Alert]
Whait... what?! Do I read correctly that MYSTRA is alive (or resurrected, or some mortal took her place and name)?!
[/Spoiler Alert]
Certainly looks that way... This can't come as much of a surprise though, can it? This would be the third time she's gone bang and come back again, right? 
I may have to read these books now, I am intrigued! |
Cedric! The Cleric Generic and Master of Disguise!
ALL HAIL LORD KARSUS!!!
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Snowblood
Senior Scribe
Australia
388 Posts |
Posted - 05 Oct 2010 : 12:14:26
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| My reasoning is this....if according to Ed, the weave is life & life is the weave and Mystra is the sentient expression of the weave/life...then the only real way to truly destroy the weave is to extinguish all life on Toril...Bane had an ace up his sleeve in the Baneson, Aumanotaur rebirthed through Lathander, and Mystra understanding the avarice and greed of other deities used chosen hidden and known as reservoirs of the divine & sentient spark that was expressed as the Goddess of magic. So when Cyric 'killed' Mystra all he really did was unleash the pent up power of the weave and the sentience that 'was' Mystra merely dissapated...scattering until it could be revived drawing upon those carefully hidden 'sparks' stored against such a calamity...the chosen 'died' having fulfilled their roles and their power was transferred.....this divine spark of sentience has re-emerged in a relatively short time but in a much weakened state...why do you think all those ancient magics were consumed by the Simbul...keeping the divine spark alive until it was ready to metamorphose so the Simbul dies...having fulfilled a predestined roll...and becomes the new Goddess........well this is what I got from it all.... |
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Edited by - Snowblood on 05 Oct 2010 12:18:05 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 05 Oct 2010 : 15:53:57
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They brought Mystra back?
Gee... what a surprise... 
I won't bother to comment; I'll just sit here drinking my OLD Coke. <smirk>
I'm sure the novel is wonderful - all of Ed's stories are - but it may take me awhile to...... digest this... |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Mr_Miscellany
Senior Scribe
545 Posts |
Posted - 05 Oct 2010 : 16:34:28
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| Said it before, I'll say it again: it was never a matter of if, but when. |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3286 Posts |
Posted - 05 Oct 2010 : 16:35:27
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I think it's great she is back.
People got worked up over something trivial to the Realms like Mystra getting killed yet again...
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"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
Edited by - Brimstone on 05 Oct 2010 16:37:45 |
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Brace Cormaeril
Learned Scribe
294 Posts |
Posted - 05 Oct 2010 : 16:42:01
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quote:
Originally posted by Brace Cormaeril
quote:
Originally posted by Snowblood
Now everyone should understand why 'She' had chosen disciples and why she exploited them the way she did.....
I sure don't! Say on, Snowblood!
Oh, right. Yeah, that's obvious.... |
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Brace Cormaeril
Learned Scribe
294 Posts |
Posted - 05 Oct 2010 : 17:51:06
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quote:
Originally posted by Snowblood
My reasoning is this....if according to Ed, the weave is life & life is the weave and Mystra is the sentient expression of the weave/life...then the only real way to truly destroy the weave is to extinguish all life on Toril...
Contrarily, Snowblood, if one destroyed the Weave, wouldn't one then destroy all life?
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3240 Posts |
Posted - 05 Oct 2010 : 19:21:05
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quote:
Originally posted by Brace Cormaeril
quote:
Originally posted by Snowblood
My reasoning is this....if according to Ed, the weave is life & life is the weave and Mystra is the sentient expression of the weave/life...then the only real way to truly destroy the weave is to extinguish all life on Toril...
Contrarily, Snowblood, if one destroyed the Weave, wouldn't one then destroy all life?
Huh... Imagine that, Shar, the goddess that loves entropy trying to destroy all life on Faerūn. |
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
Ashe's Character Sheet
Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 05 Oct 2010 : 21:00:31
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Maybe we are looking at it too simplistically.
Using Gray's theory as a basis - that the great Wheel is actually some sort of incredibly ancient artifact that 'churns out' soul-stuff - who's to say the entire multiverse isn't so mechanically-inclined?
What if everything works like a battery? That energy must constantly flow from one point to another, and it's this 'flow' that generates life?
Ergo, the Weave is a filter for Radiant energy, which is so potent in Realmspace that mages would just 'burn up' if they tried to handle it directly. Conversely, the Shadoweave is a filter for Umbral (Shadow) energy, which would leave a mage a withered husk if they tried to handle it directly. Between these two semi-permeable membranes energy flows, from positive to negative, and it is this flow - that activity - which generates life on Toril.
So the Weave isn't 'life', but without it we have inertia, which does = death. You need BOTH parts of the equation for the energy to flow and life to be possible.
That, I think, solves the difference between Ed's version of the Realms and TSR/WotC's, and actually marries the two. You NEED the weave, but it isn't the whole story... not by itself.
So the Druid's had it right all along - maintaining The balance is of the utmost importance. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 05 Oct 2010 21:03:12 |
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Kno
Senior Scribe
452 Posts |
Posted - 05 Oct 2010 : 21:03:34
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 the Grand Unifying Theory of Everything |
z455t |
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Brace Cormaeril
Learned Scribe
294 Posts |
Posted - 06 Oct 2010 : 00:11:11
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Maybe we are looking at it too simplistically.
Using Gray's theory as a basis - that the great Wheel is actually some sort of incredibly ancient artifact that 'churns out' soul-stuff - who's to say the entire multiverse isn't so mechanically-inclined?
What if everything works like a battery? That energy must constantly flow from one point to another, and it's this 'flow' that generates life?
Ergo, the Weave is a filter for Radiant energy, which is so potent in Realmspace that mages would just 'burn up' if they tried to handle it directly. Conversely, the Shadoweave is a filter for Umbral (Shadow) energy, which would leave a mage a withered husk if they tried to handle it directly. Between these two semi-permeable membranes energy flows, from positive to negative, and it is this flow - that activity - which generates life on Toril.
So the Weave isn't 'life', but without it we have inertia, which does = death. You need BOTH parts of the equation for the energy to flow and life to be possible.
That, I think, solves the difference between Ed's version of the Realms and TSR/WotC's, and actually marries the two. You NEED the weave, but it isn't the whole story... not by itself.
So the Druid's had it right all along - maintaining The balance is of the utmost importance.
Nah. The Weave is a mystic pattern/artifact which allows magic users easier access to magic. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 06 Oct 2010 : 00:51:27
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Right, but Ed has stated that besides being a 'magical interface', it also acts a filter, because Torils' "magical energies are too powerful".
That infers that there is a power more potent then Arcane energy (the energy of the weave), which I only peg as 'radiant' simple because it is the simplest juxtapostion for the Shadow/negative energy. It could be something else entirely, but that seems to make the most sense within the power-concepts of D&D and its cosmology (IMHO).
So if the energies 'beyond the weaves' are Radiant and Shadow, then perhaps it wasn't solidified radiant energy that Karsus 'discovered', but rather pure Umbral (evil) - now I'm picturing the chunk of 'pure evil' at the end of Time Bandits.
Which explains how Wulgreth got instantly 'Lich-ified' - he got hit in the head with an actual, physical piece of the Plane of Shadows.
Just a theory, of course. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 06 Oct 2010 00:52:22 |
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Snowblood
Senior Scribe
Australia
388 Posts |
Posted - 06 Oct 2010 : 01:40:52
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| hmmm a conundrum within an enigma wrapped up in a cosmological mystery.......what carbuncle we have here.... |
Aryvandaar, Ilythiir, Arnothoi, Orva, Sarphil, Anauria/Asram/Hlondath, Uvaeren, Braceldaur, Ilodhar, Lisenaar, Imaskar, Miyeritar, Orishaar, Shantel Othrieir, Keltormir, Eaerlann, Ammarindar, Siluvanede, Sharrven, Illefarn, Ardeep, Rystal Wood, Evereska are all available here for download:http://phasai.deviantart.com/gallery/
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althen artren
Senior Scribe
USA
780 Posts |
Posted - 06 Oct 2010 : 02:07:46
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too much meta-gaming make head explode
!BOOM! |
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Matt James
Forgotten Realms Game Designer
USA
918 Posts |
Posted - 06 Oct 2010 : 02:58:06
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| By the way, it's an amazing novel for Realmslore fans. |
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bladeinAmn
Learned Scribe
199 Posts |
Posted - 06 Oct 2010 : 06:27:48
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| I wonder what Jan Jansen would say in a thread like this! I mean, he is a mage, after all. |
Edited by - bladeinAmn on 06 Oct 2010 06:29:06 |
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Acolyte Thirteen
Seeker
93 Posts |
Posted - 07 Dec 2010 : 00:49:54
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Interesting thought by THo on EMD...
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 07 Dec 2010 : 01:01:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
They brought Mystra back?
Gee... what a surprise...
I won't bother to comment; I'll just sit here drinking my OLD Coke. <smirk>
I'm sure the novel is wonderful - all of Ed's stories are - but it may take me awhile to...... digest this...
It's just in the epilogue. You won't see Mystra wandering the Realms, at least not yet in this book... |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Question regarding "Elminster Must Die!", Epilogue
