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Originally posted by Ayrik

I'd vote to novelize Halaster or Larloch. Perhaps Manshoon. Incidentally, there's a real shortage of female villains in the Realms.

To be honest - I'd half prefer my favourite villains never appear in novels.

The novels tend to do a lot of damage to cool and powerful evil/insane characters. They are sometimes portrayed as tragic/misguided anti-villains who are unwillingly condemned to plod the path of the dark side. Or they become inept blunderers who dare too much and have a conveniently exploitable crippling achilles heel. Some are just dehumanized or rendered as so randomly irrational that they become little more than predictable/unbelievable melodramatic props. What I'm saying is that these wonderful villains (with their well-established ruthless, malign, and treacherous virtues; with their power, ambition, and scheming; with all their unnerving emotionless calm or maniacal mad cackling) are often turned into convenient sacrifices upon the alter of paperback entertainment. They often emerge much worse off for the experience. They typically don't behave the way a real PC/NPC would in a campaign (certainly not one as intelligent and accomplished as these must be); they behave more like they're following unsophisticated television/Hollywood scripts. It is interesting that they can sometimes enthrall entire nations or build massive armies, and yet (even in the face of tired cliché) their allies ultimately desert or betray them when it matters most. C'mon! Powerful (evil) organizations in RL (historical and modern) attract all sorts of capable and fanatical henchmen, a few of whom are more despicable and capable of greater evil atrocities than their leaders, and who will often defend their evil cause unswervingly. Even if it's only because their loved ones will be harmed if they fail.

Szass Tam has done well for himself in the novels, if perhaps pushed just slightly over the top; more than just a lich and a zulkir, with a collection of unstoppable artifacts, alliances with (or subjugation of) ancient/divine evil powers, and limitless legions of undead. True, he's been around a few centuries and has been keeping himself busy accumulating power and knowledge in numerous short stories, so perhaps this is forgivable.

The Princes of Shade (except Telemont, Rivalen, Brennus, and perhaps Melegaunt) are all basically faceless and interchangable and don't seem to evoke any particular respect, interest, or feeling.

Other villains like Tyranthraxus, Maligor, and Cyric have been very shallow and two-dimensional. Some attempt to add interesting character flaws, backstory, or humanity is often made ... but these villains just don't quite cut it, and to be honest, each successive novelization just exaggerates them and hastens their decay even faster. True, they might achieve epic or godly levels of power but they're still just unsatisfactory bad guys who might as well be swapped with a single-session end of module BBEG. Just my opinions.

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These comments apply just the same towards novelization sometimes eroding perfectly good heroes for generic consumption.

Maybe I'm just old school and believe it's the character that matters. Not his magical scimitars, or ability to wield spellfire or silverfire or hellfire or water-balloons, or cast mighty spells of destruction, or have psionic/mental powers, or rare (and sometimes rule-breaking) supernatural curses/gifts and abilities. A real villain or hero is based on who the character is and what he does, not on what the character's resume sheet lets him do.

On the other hand - I'll admit that my players would be terrified if I used Manshoon or Szass Tam against them, due largely to what they've read (and know I've read) about these characters in various novels. The novels, regardless of any technical or contentual "issues" they might have, do a wonderful job of adding life and depth to the Realms setting.

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Originally posted by Lamora

Paul Kemp created a very awesome Mask, I thought. Maybe you are talking about earlier books though which I never read? Mask is such an awesome bastard, and he actually feels realistic. Off the top of my head, he was the only god in the Realms that I liked. Lolth's son (the name escapes me) wasn't a bad god either. I don't really care for the others at all.

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Originally posted by Gyor



Cyric was really great, before he became a God, awesome even, but upon becoming a God they ruined his character and just made him a goofy ball villian. You could sympathize with how mortal Cyric ended up going evil, after being a hero. But I didn't care for how Cyric and Mask ended up being protrayed in later novels. I did like Cyrics Chosen however. I'd personally do more to pull Cyric back to his more nuanced mortal personality, make him cool again, chalk the rest up to problems caused by having Godhood enfused into him.

Adon how ever I couldn't stand, really, really disliked Adon.

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Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

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Originally posted by Gyor



Cyric was really great, before he became a God, awesome even, but upon becoming a God they ruined his character and just made him a goofy ball villian. You could sympathize with how mortal Cyric ended up going evil, after being a hero. But I didn't care for how Cyric and Mask ended up being protrayed in later novels. I did like Cyrics Chosen however. I'd personally do more to pull Cyric back to his more nuanced mortal personality, make him cool again, chalk the rest up to problems caused by having Godhood enfused into him.

Adon how ever I couldn't stand, really, really disliked Adon.

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While I wasn't a fan of Adon, I can't agree with you on Cyric. I think he was an opportunistic git who lacked the strength of character to become someone truly worthwhile. When the going got tough, he crumpled under the pressure and readily betrayed those around him, then went on to betray his former friends in order to benefit himself.

And as a deity, he's not even arisen those particular highs. He's what you'd get if the Three Stooges were evil.

I would almost be willing to undo the Time of Troubles if it meant getting rid of Cyric.

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