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Kilvan
Senior Scribe
Canada
894 Posts |
 Posted - 30 Sep 2010 : 12:45:58
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| I would NOT like to see Larloch novelised. I prefer him as he is right now, unknown, but surely almighty. I do not think he should take part in some great plot that would reveal his plans and is character to the readers (even just a fraction). Besides, I'd trust only Ed to write that one, and he's plenty busy at the moment. |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 30 Sep 2010 : 15:56:53
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I voted Larloch. 'Tis time to make the Great Unknown known. But a novel is not enough. It should be a pentad at least.
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Every beginning has an end. |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 30 Sep 2010 : 18:26:42
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What about Halaster vs. Larloch?
I smell summer blockbuster. 
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 30 Sep 2010 : 18:39:17
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Agree completely with Kilvan on this one -
For a movie, Larloch is cliche', sorry. Icky undead uber-wizard is the ultimate villain-trope. He's Sauron with a personality.
I like what he represents in the Realms (and I am sure there is a LOT more to him then we know), but as a movie character its been done to death. The directors & writers will just Frak him up and make him a a cross between The Mummy and Pinhead. Larloch is too 'deep' to be handled aptly on the big screen, and too much will be lost in translation, IMHO.
I can say the same for Halaster, movie-wise...
But a novelization of some sort of ancient rivalry between the two - one that perhaps pre-dates Netheril itself, would be friggin' awesome. 
In Marvel comics (yes... I go there a LOT...), it is said that both Dr. Doom and Doctor Druid were both 'precursors' to Doctor Strange (all have very similar origins) - guys who were 'tested' and didn't 'measure-up' to be THE 'Sorcerer Supreme'.
Maybe... Larloch and Halaster are like Dr. Doom and Doctor Druid in that regard, and Elminster is like Doctor Strange.
We are on our third 'Mystra', after all... that we know of....quote:
Originally posted by _Jarlaxle_
There are allready Novels with Ka'Narlist. He plays some part in Evermeet and there is at least one short story with him where he creates the suaghin race.
Ummmm... there is?  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 30 Sep 2010 18:44:56 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 01 Oct 2010 : 00:42:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
In Marvel comics (yes... I go there a LOT...), it is said that both Dr. Doom and Doctor Druid were both 'precursors' to Doctor Strange (all have very similar origins) - guys who were 'tested' and didn't 'measure-up' to be THE 'Sorcerer Supreme'.
Heh. As an extension of this, one of my all-time favourite Marvel tales was the What If?: Doctor Doom Become Sorcerer Supreme. I loved it! Of course, being a huge Strange and Doom fan myself, that was almost a given.  |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 01 Oct 2010 : 02:21:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
What about Halaster vs. Larloch?
I smell summer blockbuster.
Cheers
Indeed. But there should be a book trilogy first.
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Every beginning has an end. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 01 Oct 2010 : 03:04:05
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
quote:
Originally posted by _Jarlaxle_
There are allready Novels with Ka'Narlist. He plays some part in Evermeet and there is at least one short story with him where he creates the suaghin race.
Ummmm... there is?
Yup. He was in Evermeet, in some of the past chapters, and the story of his creation of the sahuagin was in Realms of the Arcane, and republished in Best of Elaine. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 01 Oct 2010 : 05:22:52
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I know him from Evermeet, but was unaware of his other story.
Embarrassingly, I have neither of those anthologies.  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3286 Posts |
Posted - 01 Oct 2010 : 06:30:14
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| Voted Mirt...written by ED... |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 01 Oct 2010 : 07:15:40
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quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
What about Halaster vs. Larloch?
I smell summer blockbuster.
Oh don't worry, MT--this was a jest.
And for the record, Larloch is WAY more complicated than Sauron. Not that you could easily explain that in the course of a 2-hour movie, so I agree--book series FTW.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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_Jarlaxle_
Senior Scribe
Germany
584 Posts |
Posted - 01 Oct 2010 : 09:43:42
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Embarrassingly, I have neither of those anthologies.
There are some really interessing stories in those, so you should try to get them when you're searching for something to read :) |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 01 Oct 2010 : 10:45:43
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quote:
Originally posted by _Jarlaxle_
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Embarrassingly, I have neither of those anthologies.
There are some really interessing stories in those, so you should try to get them when you're searching for something to read :)
Seconded. I am usually not into short fiction, but I made some exceptions with a few stories in those anthologies. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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jaelin910
Acolyte
Australia
18 Posts |
Posted - 05 Oct 2010 : 12:08:00
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1. what is the difference between other and other?
2. assuming he isnt already actually in a book(and i just realised how likely it is that he is) karsus |
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Quale
Master of Realmslore
1757 Posts |
Posted - 05 Oct 2010 : 16:34:06
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| Other, I'd rather not read about any more mages. A book about Pereghost of Darkhold, or about one of the lesser known Lords of Waterdeep, a traitorous one like Kerrigan. Or about Mintiper Moonsilver's time in the Tel Teukiira. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 05 Oct 2010 : 17:32:59
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How about this -
An anthology set during the Plague Years (first decade), on how various folks coped. "Realms of Plague"? Realms of Change"? "Realms of Blue Fire"? (that one is kinda catchy) 
Not the 'big guns', mind you, although a couple of those stories would be okay. What I want to read about is HUMAN INTEREST - Screw Elminster - tell me what Jhaele was doing when the poop hit the fan. How were the villages in the north affected? How did the folks along the coast of the Dragonmere feel about being annexed? How did the people of Sembia take the Shades running things (because even if its not public-knowledge, people ARE going to figure it out anyway).
What happened to the centaurs in Thay when things started getting bad (or rather, WORSE)? What sort of craziness transpired all over Cormanthor (given the sheer number of magical relics there). What were the shades doing? Or the Bedine for that matter...
What did the humanoids do, and how did they feel about it? Did Obould gain power during those years, or was he in just as much of a pickle as his human counterparts? What of the Serpent Folk? There is a 'new god in town' for them - how did they take that?
And most of all, what of Returned Abeir? I'm sure those folks were kinda shell-shocked for that first decade. As it is now, it almost seems (unrealistically) that they took things 'in stride'. And while I am at it, how about the last days of those that are gone? Maztica, Halruaa, Nimbral, the Mulan... are they 'in a better place'?
I want to read stories about regular people, and how they handled what was possibly THE MOST INTERESTING period of Faerun's long history.
What we have now is something similar to the events leading up to WWII (which are interesting unto themselves), and then you give us the 50's... without ever writing about the damn war! That's what it feels like. I admit the Spellplague is fascinating...SO TELL ME ABOUT IT!
I feel like an anthropologist, and while that particular profession is uber-cool, it would be so much cooler to actually be able to SEE how those ancient peoples lived, and worked, and loved... there are some insanely good stories there just waiting to be tapped.
Don't just show me a Statue of Liberty half-buried in the sand... tell me what the hell happened! Inquiring minds want to know. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 05 Oct 2010 17:39:32 |
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Kno
Senior Scribe
452 Posts |
Posted - 05 Oct 2010 : 20:17:27
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| Regular people are boring |
z455t |
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Matt James
Forgotten Realms Game Designer
USA
918 Posts |
Posted - 06 Oct 2010 : 02:59:48
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| Kevrick Crescentmoon - my own creation ;) He is a gypsy that travels all throughout Toril performing deeds decreed by a triad of gods (Oghma being one of them). The only mention of him is fleeting in a Dungeon article-- but if I were to write a Realms novel, he would be my protagonist :) |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 06 Oct 2010 : 03:57:32
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| Heh, if we're going to mention characters we made up, I can toss out a dozen or so from my Hooks, plus I'm still hoping to someday see one of my Lords of Waterdeep get made canon. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 06 Oct 2010 : 04:38:31
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Heh, if we're going to mention characters we made up, I can toss out a dozen or so from my Hooks, plus I'm still hoping to someday see one of my Lords of Waterdeep get made canon.
Of course, there's also Sage Operth... which Krash saw fit to grant as "canon" in lore he posted here at Candlekeep. But I'd also love to see him [or me, as you prefer] pop up somewhere in future printed Realmslore too. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Penknight
Senior Scribe
USA
538 Posts |
Posted - 06 Oct 2010 : 05:35:47
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I have a fey'ri bladesinger that I'd love to see mentioned even if just in passing one day. He's in my signature below. Telethian Ealoeth, though he uses "Phoenix" as a last name in honor of the symbol of House Dlardrageth. In his true form, the enchanted tattoo on his back of the phoenix in enchanted flames that seem to burn transforms into the symbol of House Dlardrageth (which I adore, and use the symbol as presented in Lords of Darkness). And may I say that I'm also a huge fan of the bladesong style Mr. de Bie came up with and developed for Telethian. My friend, if you read this, again you have my heartfelt thanks. Also, tell Cythara that Telethian sends his respects.  |
Telethian Phoenix
Pathfinder Reference Document |
Edited by - Penknight on 06 Oct 2010 05:36:31 |
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 06 Oct 2010 : 10:17:02
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quote:
Originally posted by Kno
Regular people are boring
I would disagree with this. Most regular people are interesting enough if you tap into the right parts of their lives and personalties. Regular people in irregular situations always have great potential. |
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_Jarlaxle_
Senior Scribe
Germany
584 Posts |
Posted - 06 Oct 2010 : 11:44:53
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I aggree, a book with some powerfull beeing like Larloch, the Simbule etc. as main character would be very boring in my opinion because they can just do what they want to do.
Those types of guys should only act in the background with short appearances. The haunted lands triology is a good example for this. Szass Tam played an important role in it but he wasn't the main character. |
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Kno
Senior Scribe
452 Posts |
Posted - 06 Oct 2010 : 13:07:03
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| Larlochs and Simbuls are ordinary in Forgotten Realms, on the other side I'm sick of peasants and farmboys in irregular situations |
z455t |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 06 Oct 2010 : 15:07:54
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quote:
Originally posted by _Jarlaxle_
I aggree, a book with some powerfull beeing like Larloch, the Simbule etc. as main character would be very boring in my opinion because they can just do what they want to do.
I don't think that's necessarily true. You can tell great stories with seemingly very powerful people whose power counts for very little, depending on the conflict.
All the magical power in the world isn't going to help you save an important relationship, for instance, or make the right choice about what to *do* with that power--do you support this king, or that? Who died and made you the goddess of magic, to impose your will on others?
Those sorts of conflicts.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 06 Oct 2010 : 15:37:26
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But the challenges they face must scale to their power-level, which leads to extreme 'Munchkinism'.
And worse - then you have to "top it" in the sequels, which often leads to jumping the shark. Once a character fights gods, what do you do for an encore?
This, I think, became a major problem in 3e, which the author/designers don't care to admit - the next RSE had to be even more spectacular then the last.
If you tell small stories about normal people who 'beat the odds', with only brief cameos by 'heavy hitters', you create the situation that happens in an RPG game. By only telling stories about god-like characters, you create the exact opposite and cause the situation that forced WotC to get rid of most of those Munchkin characters. The reasoning behind the changes (supposedly) was that the setting's NPCs made the PCs feel inferior.
How is telling stories about guys like Larloch going to help that situation? By having some nobody beat him down? That would be unrealistic; he needs a protagonist that can level the playing field.
Our Players are not going to fly into the Upper Planes and challenge gods, they are going to save the village from some werewolves, or rescue a princess, or defeat a dragon (WHICH, BTW, has become a minor obstacle BECAUSE of all this 'arms escalation' in regards to challenges).
What is wrong with writing the kinds of stories our players could have been involved with? The setting doesn't exist for the Munchkins - that's what killed it.
Normal people are NOT boring. When you put an ordinary person in an extraordinary situation amazing things happen. I think Starman said it best - "People are at their best, when things are at there worst".
On the other side of the coin, this trope has been beaten to death as well - just don't make the damn protagonist a pitiful orphan (Harry Potter, Richard Cypher, Garion, Rand al'Thor, ect), especially with a 'fake past' (Richard Cypher and Rand al'Thor's situations were nearly identical - raised by a 'phony father'). Leave the 'farmboy' at home, and just give me some down-on-their-luck adventurers trying to catch a break. That's probably the only savings-Grace of the avatar trilogy - I LIKED the party composition. It saved the whole damn trilogy for me. Normal people facing extraordinary things.
Sure three of them became gods... but that's when they got BORING. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 06 Oct 2010 15:39:18 |
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_Jarlaxle_
Senior Scribe
Germany
584 Posts |
Posted - 06 Oct 2010 : 15:46:50
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quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
All the magical power in the world isn't going to help you save an important relationship, for instance, or make the right choice about what to *do* with that power--do you support this king, or that? Who died and made you the goddess of magic, to impose your will on others?
Those sorts of conflicts.
Yes thats true, but I'm not sure if this is interesting enough for more than a short story.
In a bigger plot you will face the problems Markustay explained, I fear.
As I said I don't say powerfull beeings shouldn't b in a novel but I think they should be antagonists instead of protagonists.
But I'm more than willing to be convinced by a good novel that I'm wrong with my fears |
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Sandro
Learned Scribe
New Zealand
266 Posts |
Posted - 07 Oct 2010 : 01:50:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
quote:
Originally posted by _Jarlaxle_
I aggree, a book with some powerfull beeing like Larloch, the Simbule etc. as main character would be very boring in my opinion because they can just do what they want to do.
I don't think that's necessarily true. You can tell great stories with seemingly very powerful people whose power counts for very little, depending on the conflict.
All the magical power in the world isn't going to help you save an important relationship, for instance, or make the right choice about what to *do* with that power--do you support this king, or that? Who died and made you the goddess of magic, to impose your will on others?
Those sorts of conflicts.
Cheers
The prime example of this, I think, is Ed's The Temptation of Elminster. |
"Gods, little fishes, and spells to turn the one to the other," Mordenkainen sighed. "It's started already..." |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 07 Oct 2010 : 05:45:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Sandro
quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
quote:
Originally posted by _Jarlaxle_
I aggree, a book with some powerfull beeing like Larloch, the Simbule etc. as main character would be very boring in my opinion because they can just do what they want to do.
I don't think that's necessarily true. You can tell great stories with seemingly very powerful people whose power counts for very little, depending on the conflict.
All the magical power in the world isn't going to help you save an important relationship, for instance, or make the right choice about what to *do* with that power--do you support this king, or that? Who died and made you the goddess of magic, to impose your will on others?
Those sorts of conflicts.
Cheers
The prime example of this, I think, is Ed's The Temptation of Elminster.
Also, Paul's Shadowrealm. And I'm with Erik on this. Powerful characters do not have the solution to everything. In Eminster in Hell, Mystra would have easily rescued his favorite Chosen had it not been to the fact that her unleashed powers in the Nine created rifts to Toril. In Shadowstorm, Telamont would have undoubtedly stopped the Shadowstorm had he not been 'busy' with some other matters, or enslaved Mephistopheles for decades if the magic to do so wouldn't strip his city of all magic.
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Every beginning has an end. |
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_Jarlaxle_
Senior Scribe
Germany
584 Posts |
Posted - 07 Oct 2010 : 09:16:45
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| Neither Telamont nor Mystra where the protagonists in the stories ;) |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 07 Oct 2010 : 09:22:40
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quote:
Originally posted by _Jarlaxle_
Neither Telamont nor Mystra where the protagonists in the stories ;)
I didn't say they are. I mentioned them in support to the words I highlighted. Solving problems, however gargantuan or wee, aren't limited to the story's protagonists; supporting characters and antagonists face problems, too, that either directly or indirectly affect the main hero. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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who do u want to see novelized?
