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Dewaint
Learned Scribe
Germany
148 Posts |
 Posted - 09 Sep 2010 : 11:56:30
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greetings fellow scribes,
am currently setting up a new PC group in my long lasting campaign. It happens that all players are new to the realms and so I am now busy putting together/updating some hand-outs for the various characteristics of the FR.
One of those are the personal mage sigils, which integrity is surveilled by Mystra and Azuth.
Now the question:
Back in 2e (i.e. FA Adventure p.43) there were game mechanics for the "three-fold curse of Mystra". So far I was not able to find any 3/3.5e source describing this particularity at all. It is no more?! 
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Ionik Knight
Learned Scribe
USA
222 Posts |
Posted - 09 Sep 2010 : 12:12:25
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| I gave a quick look, but couldn't find anything updating sigils past 2ed either. |
Fools to right of them,
Jesters to left of them,
Clowns in front of them
Pun'd and parody'd. |
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Dewaint
Learned Scribe
Germany
148 Posts |
Posted - 09 Sep 2010 : 13:36:54
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Ha! Found a vague reference in the Magister template from 3e Magic of Faerun p.186 :
The Magister’s Sigil (Su)
Maybe this is all that is leftover in 3e  its not three-fold anymore but can be generalised I guess. |
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Ralderick Hallowshaw
Acolyte
Italy
36 Posts |
Posted - 09 Sep 2010 : 17:55:01
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Check the sidebar "Mage Runes and the Curse of Mystra" in FRCS (3E), p. 28.
But I think the will save at DC 15 is too few. To me, 20 would have been more balanced. |
"Adventurers are best used to slay monsters. Sooner or later, they become your worst monsters, and you have to hire new ones to do the obvious thing" - Ralderick Hallowshaw, Jester - from To Rule A Realm, From Turret To Midden, published circa The Year of the Bloodbird
And forgive me for my bad use of English language!  |
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Dewaint
Learned Scribe
Germany
148 Posts |
Posted - 10 Sep 2010 : 08:39:28
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Many Thanks Ralderick :)
don't know why, but I missed this sidebar 
Not sure to raise the DC. From my understanding the threat of punishment should be there in any way, even if the character has a lot of boni or high in levels.
Maybe in this particular case it is an option to use a similar rule like the Pathfinder one for Skills. Meaning a diced 1 is always a failed save. Mhh... have to think about it. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 11 Sep 2010 : 01:54:18
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| They also still exist in 4e, but as to who or what is providing the power behind them is unknown - that from Richard Baker via the WotC boards some tim e ago. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Dracons
Learned Scribe
USA
299 Posts |
Posted - 11 Sep 2010 : 02:10:48
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I tend to have the DC based on the character level of the sigil. The stronger the owner of the sigil is, the harder it is to reisist the curse of Mystra.
More or less, low level wizards that try to use say, The Simbul or Eliminsters sigil is likely not going to survive the curse. Whereas high level users are ether going to use their own, or perhaps a low level wizard for whatever reason and survive, likely because whatever they did was for a reason and Mystra allows that. |
I love PMs! Please send me a message. Even if its Hi. |
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Wenin
Senior Scribe
585 Posts |
Posted - 11 Sep 2010 : 05:49:25
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This is what I use in my game. I recorded it over a year ago, but I think it is a blend of 2nd and 3rd edition, and even comments from this forum. I went with what Dracon suggests, tying the save directly to the caster's level.
CURSE OF MYSTRA
All arcane spellcasters create a personal sigil or rune. This rune is used to identify belongings, as a warning, and as a signature. As the goddess of magic, Mystra takes it upon herself to protect powerful spellcasters (above 10th level) maligned by another using their rune with deceitful intent. If anyone (spellcaster or not) willfully copies a sigil with the intent to trick another or usurp the owner's identity, that person must make three successive saves to avoid the threefold Curse of Mystra. If the owner of the sigil is still in existence as an intelligent entity the curse is immune to being removed, except for the magical methods outlined below, as this curse is bestowed by Mystra's divine power. A violator can avoid the second and third wave of effects, by renouncing and discontinuing the false usage of the sigil, otherwise the subsequent effects are forced upon the subject in 10 minute intervals.
When someone fails any of the saves, they are bestowed with a cursed mark. The cursed mark consists of the sigil they misused being permanently branded upon the violator's skin. The appearance of the sigil is painful (1d4 physical damage), and will appear upon an exposed area of the violator's skin. Attempting to cover up the sigil will cause it to immediately and painfully (1d4 dmg) move within 1 round to another exposed area. If no such area is available, it will continue to painfully move every minute until it is successfully exposed. When exposed the sigil illuminates to the brightness of a candle (5 ft radius).
If the sigil's owner still exists, the sigil can be removed with the casting of an erase spell by the owner of the sigil. In the event that a sigil's owner no longer exists, it can be removed by the casting of a Remove Curse by a cleric of Mystra.
Primary Effect
DC 14 + Caster Level of Sigil Owner (Max DC 34) Fort Save - 2 points of permanent Strength drain.
Secondary Effect
DC14 + Caster Level of Sigil Owner (Max DC 34) Will Save - 2 points of permanent Intelligence and Charisma drain. If the subject is a caster, they will loose all bonus spell slots gained from a high ability score for a period of one month
Tertiary Effect
DC 14 + Caster Level of Sigil Owner (Max DC 34) Will Save - 2 points of permanent Wisdom drain, and the effects of a feeblemind spell
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Session Reports posted at RPG Geek.
Stem the Tide Takes place in Mistledale.
Dark Curtains - Takes place in the Savage North, starting in Nesmé. I wrapped my campaign into the Hoard of the Dragon Queen, but it takes place in 1372 DR. |
Edited by - Wenin on 11 Sep 2010 05:53:42 |
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Dewaint
Learned Scribe
Germany
148 Posts |
Posted - 11 Sep 2010 : 10:39:27
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Sounds realy thought-out Wenin. I like it, in particular that can be atoned with clerics of Mystra
A bit drastic but appropriate to the power such sigils bear in multiple ways. Daunting and forbidding as well, fantastic material gossips and rumors are made from  . Good starting point for adventures as well.
Only thing I potentially can think of adding is that it can be noted by magical sight/screening. A sort of Arcane Mark Spell effect. With this add, the damage done by the mark movement on the skin of the violator might be allievated, or removed at all from the rule.
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Edited by - Dewaint on 11 Sep 2010 11:39:47 |
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Wenin
Senior Scribe
585 Posts |
Posted - 11 Sep 2010 : 14:51:08
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Thank you =)
My intent was that the mark was to be a mark of shame, that all can see. The mark is in all intents and purpose is an Arcane Mark, but with it needing to always be visible even a spell-less merchant could see that they are dealing with a thief in the eyes of Mystra.
One of the design elements I made within my game is that I created a new Arcane Mark spell for Guilds.
MARK OF BALDUR'S GATE
Universal
Level: Sorcerer/wizard 1
Components: V, S, F
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: 0 ft.
Target: One rune or mark, all of which must fit within 1 sq. ft.
Duration: Permanent; see text
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No
In order to utilize this spell, one must perform a formal ritual that announces the arcane caster's acceptance within an organization that has developed its own Arcane Mark. Those rituals practiced by secret societies would be sufficient. During the ritual an Arcane Mark must be used to place a permanent tattoo depicting the organization's Arcane Mark upon the caster's skin.
Forgers have found that the mark is as protected against false usage as a wizard's sigil is protected by the Curse of Mystra.
The mark can be visible or invisible. The spell enables the individual to etch or use this spell to place the rune upon any substance (even stone or metal) . If the mark is made invisible, a detect magic spell causes it to glow and be visible to an unaided eye, though not necessarily understandable. See invisibility, true seeing, a gem of seeing, or a robe of eyes likewise allows the user to see the invisible mark. The mark cannot be dispelled, but it can be removed by any arcane caster belonging to the cabal or by an erase spell. If the mark is placed on a living being, normal wear gradually causes the effect to fade in about a month.
If the mark is placed upon an object, and that object is broken, the Mark will also fade within 1 month.
Focus: The special tattoo that is marked upon the caster's body.
History: Currently this spell is a closely guarded trade secret of the war wizards employed by Baldur's Gate city government. One of their primary duties is to mark the Baldur's Gate Trade Bars that are famous throughout the realms.
Baldur's Gate Trade Bars
Baldur's Gate produces a widely circulated trade bar within the Realms. They are cast minted in the form of half pound silver bullion that are 6 cm long, 3 cm wide and 1.2 cm tall when laying flat upon a table. At one end of the bar is its face value, the other end has a visible Mark of Baldur's Gate stamp and between them is an inventory number stamped into the bar. The mark is protected by the same form of curse that is known to protect a wizard's sigil. This makes it costly and likely detrimental to would be thieves attempting to produce forgeries. If a bar is damaged, it ruins the Mark upon the bar, making the bar only worth its smelted value.
Baldur's Gate Trade Bars come in 50, 100, 500 and 1000 gp values.
Due to their trusted value, and their light weight construction, these trade bars are highly valued by merchants. Baldur's Gate charges a 10% exchange fee when selling these bars to merchant costers visiting the city. Merchants that are faced with requests from their clients to sell these bars when not involving a trade, typically sell them at a 15% exchange fee.
The following information was rounded up from the net well over a year ago. Again, I don't recall where I got it from, and how much of it I created and how much is someone else's work. A search of the net however doesn't turn up results, so I may have reworded the entire document. These trade bars are not those that would have a wizard mark.
Trade Bars
Silver Bar Dimensions
Note that different refiners make their bars in different shapes, so there can be quite a large variation in dimension for a bar of any given weight.
Cast Bars
Cast bars are usually thicker (deeper) than stamped bars, so usually have a smaller length and width for any given weight. Some cast bars are a very dumpy shape like a small brick but with distinctly tapered sides, others are flatter and more spread out with a flatter top surface, and are thinner than the dumpy shaped bars. in th table below, we have called these "flat" bars.
Stamped Bars
Conversely, stamped or coined bars are usually thinner than cast bars, and therefore longer and wider for any given weight.
Dimensions
All dimensions quoted are approximate, and in millimeters.
<INSERT TABLES>
I was working on a set of tables that determined how large and the value of trade bars, based on their actual RL weights. Looking at the tables now, I see that I didn't finish the work. =)
</INSERT TABLES>
Large numbers of coins can be difficult to transport and account for. Many merchants prefer to use trade bars, or ingots of precious metals and alloys likely to be accepted by virtually anyone. Typical trade bars are made of either silver or gold and are valued at the same value as an equivalent weight of coins of the same material. Having these trade bars makes large trades occur more smoothly. The trade bars are stamped or graven with the symbol of the trading coster or government that originally crafted them. These trade bars are traded in 1 pound values, so that a silver trade bar has a value of 5 gp, a 1 pound gold bar is valued at 50 gp, and heavier bars are worth proportionally more. Trade bars typically come in 1, 2, 5, and 10 pound weights.
Trade bars are typically obtained from the merchant costers that originally minted them. The merchant would utilize the trade bar in paying for his goods. If desired, a merchant would sell his trade bars, at a small 5% exchange rate fee. (50gp bar sells for 52.5 gp) This small fee is meant to cover the cost of having the bars smelted, and a small convenience profit. Typically merchants are reluctant to selling trade bars that is not a part of a deal involving their normal wares.
Gold trade bars are very rare. Only the wealthiest and most powerful merchants and nobles smelt these bars, since only the largest transactions require a currency with such a high face value.
Properly minted trade bars have a number of standard markings, depending on the system that is being used to determine their value. If the bars are made from a material that is to equal their value they will have the Minting entity's official stamp, inventory number, place of minting if the minting entity has more than one mint, weight of bar in grams and the purity of the metal. For trade bars that are only meant to represent a value, they will possess the Minting entity's official stamp, the face value, an inventory tracking number and the place of minting if the entity has more than one mint.
Bars issued by defunct costers and fallen countries and rulers are usually worth the value of the material they are made from. However some merchant costers and governments have begun uniquely designed trading bars to represent values above the value of the materials. These trade bars will commonly fetch their face value within their city of origin, and the bars must be undamaged or else they would be invalidated.
In many nations only those merchant costers allowed by the local government may mint trade bars, as they will adhere to the local laws governing the control of such trade bars. This is to dissuade wizards from attempting to mint coins and trade bars with subpar materials or for values that do not equate to the material's value. In order to obtain this permission from the local government the merchant would have to demonstrate a long history of trusted relationship with the government. Dealing with unknown merchants using unfamiliar trade bars is a hazardous activity for one's wealth.
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Session Reports posted at RPG Geek.
Stem the Tide Takes place in Mistledale.
Dark Curtains - Takes place in the Savage North, starting in Nesmé. I wrapped my campaign into the Hoard of the Dragon Queen, but it takes place in 1372 DR. |
Edited by - Wenin on 11 Sep 2010 15:10:11 |
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Wenin
Senior Scribe
585 Posts |
Posted - 11 Sep 2010 : 15:15:34
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I enjoyed digging this out of my archives. =)
I will be changing it, so that a government guild within Baldur's Gate would allow for the 50 & 100gp bars to be cast (not with spells), while the 500 and 1000 gp bars would have an actual arcane mark glowing slowly on its surface. A bit touch of class for the rich. =) This would allow wizards to not have to be bothered with marking small demoninations, using up their 1st level slots for such small tasks.
Those casting the smaller values would still bare the Mark of Baldur's Gate however, allowing them to avoid the curse. |
Session Reports posted at RPG Geek.
Stem the Tide Takes place in Mistledale.
Dark Curtains - Takes place in the Savage North, starting in Nesmé. I wrapped my campaign into the Hoard of the Dragon Queen, but it takes place in 1372 DR. |
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Three-fold curse of Mystra
