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woodwwad
Learned Scribe
USA
267 Posts |
 Posted - 04 Aug 2010 : 22:29:14
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This question regards 3.5 but am happy to use any source before 4.0
I'd be greatful for any info on trade notes in the realms. I recall they are used in Waterdeep. Are there any other places in the realms that use trade notes? I'd especially be interested on any info regarding Baldur's Gate or Amn, as these are two locations highly used in my current game. Also, a description of what any trade notes look like would be highly helpful as to how useful they are outside of their place or origin.
Thanks for any help.
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Thauramarth
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
729 Posts |
Posted - 04 Aug 2010 : 23:07:29
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Are these promissory notes (which are called "bloodnotes" in the Forgotten Realms Adventures hardback)? They are described as follows on p. 129: "Scrolls, letters, or other carvings representing IOUs and promissory notes from the listed person to the holder of the note. Blood notes can be made by individuals, adventuring companies, or countries and cities to cover debts, and should the debtor still be around, they are legally obligated to pay when it is presented. Blood notes from individuals who are no longer alive are not binding. About 20% of the blood notes found among treasure are still collectable (...). Locating the debtor and convincing him to pay up is left to the individuals involved."
If they are used in Waterdeep, I do not see why trade-heavy locations like Amn or Baldur's Gate would not. I do think, however, that they would not be regulated or guaranteed in any way by a central banking system. The faith one has in a trade note will depend to a large extent to the faith one has in the issuer of the bloodnote. I can imagine that a representative of an organisation (city, state, merchant house, temple) could issue a note to be paid by another representative of the same organisation, most likely in another location.
As for appearance - again, I do not think that there is any canon lore in 1E and 2E (which is what I have access to), but Big Ed may have treated the subject in one of his threads. In my campaigns, such a note can take any physical form, but would contain wording along the lines of "X shall pay the amount of... to Y / to the bearer of this note" (the latter if it's a "bearer note"), and fixed with a seal or a similar means of identification. It might be possible, in large transactions, for the parties to use magical sigils (a simple wizard mark might already do the trick) to ensure authenticity. Depending on cultures, the physical form might be a scroll, a stick bearing the terms and conditions, a runestone, etc. |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 05 Aug 2010 : 00:35:04
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The only thing I could add is that to take a note from a Zhent would be openly and obviously the stupidest thing a merchant could do...if he knows it is a Zhent. Same would pretty much go for almost any city on the Moonsea!
In nations where the Law is more important than trade, I would trust notes more often; say Cormyr as one example. Even in nations such as Sembia and Amn, I would be somewhat less trusting as the Appointed/Elected official you go to for your grievance may be in the pocket of the person you have offense against! Still, in these lands it would be fairly safe.
Something that hasn't been mentioned are:
quote:
Letter of Trade: Similar to blood notes, letters of trade call for delivery of a particular item or items to the bearer. Only about 10% of these are worth anything; the remainder are written for organizations which no longer exist or for items which have since been sold or delivered elsewhere. Even then, the item (often not mentioned on the letter of trade) to be delivered varies from a small art object to a magical item to (in at least one case) a golem.
Letters of Trade, to me, would be much more common than Bloodnotes. I daresay that contracts would be made between parties with this sort of document very often to negate the need to even converse about coinage at all! A "I'll deliver to you 20 wagons of fine ground wheat flour, and in return you give me..." sort of thing.
Now, for "banking" then Blood Notes are good bets...though don't forget about such things as Trade Bars:
quote:
Trade Bar, Mirabar: Coming from the wild country north of Waterdeep, these trade bars are made of black iron and shaped like rectangular spindles. They are worth 10 gp in Mirabar itself, 5 gp in the rest of the Realms.
Trade Bar, Merchants': These trade bars are thin, silver bars worth either 10, 20, or 50 gp each. The bar is marked at one end with its value and at the other with the symbol of the trading institution or coster that created it. Broken trade bars are valueless, though most merchants continue to honor the trade bars of defunct institutions. The trade bars of the Iron Throne trading group are not honored by
other trading organizations, as this group is considered disreputable. Merchants' trade bars can be manufactured anywhere, but an increasing number of them bear the mint mark of Baldur's Gate. To determine the value of a group of trade bars, roll
a d6:
d6 Roll Result
1-3 10 gp value each
4-5 20 gp value each
6 50 gp value each
Trade Bar, Sembia: Ingot-shaped bars of silver dotted with copper and marked with the symbol of Sembia, these trade bars are considered to be worth their face value and are backed by the wealth of the Merchant Kingdom. To determine the value of Sembian trade bars, roll a d8:
d8 Roll Result
1-4 5 gp value each
5-6 10 gp value each
7 25 gp value each
8 50 gp value each
Trade Bar, Lantan: A flat, envelope-shaped bar of worked steel marked with the great wheel of Gond, such bars are worth 20 gp each and are used primarily along the Sword Coast and in other regions where the Lantanna normally trade.
Trade Bars are obviously the chosen form of currency for merchants, and this negates the need for the "banker" as any of these Bars can be taken directly to their source to be honored.
It would be fun though to have someone start a series of banks, with the "Central Offices" being at the hub of a series of Portals. I have talked at length with various people about this prospect. An individual could enter one of the "branches" in Waterdeep and deposit 5k gold; then go to another branch in Suzail to withdraw the same...all for only a small transfer fee. To gain access to your "account" you would need a particular attuned gemstone that would reflect your picture in the gem, but would only do so if held by the actual individual.
The "Vault" of each of these branches would actually give access to a portal which carries the individual into a room bristling with traps, guards and guardian beasts of such a bewildering array that they wouldn't dare try to step out of the circle they appeared in for fear of being torn asunder before their next breath! Or, as I argued, you simply have a "Portal" only about the size of a small coffer that transported money/items to a small holding box on the other end attended by someone who would make record from the note passed along of who the deposit belonged to.
In fact, I had one fellow argue the solid point that Thayan Enclaves would be the places to have such a thing...which would then allow them to have built in invasion platforms!
At any rate...good luck with your banking!
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The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
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woodwwad
Learned Scribe
USA
267 Posts |
Posted - 05 Aug 2010 : 06:17:08
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| thanks very much guys, I've been using trade bars for some time, but only rarely, not in huge #ers. Anyway, some usual info there. Anyone know weight for trade bars, not really sure how big the stuff you mentioned is. |
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Kyrene
Senior Scribe
South Africa
729 Posts |
Posted - 05 Aug 2010 : 06:36:13
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| Also read through the relevant merchant parts of Power of Faerūn if you can. Things like "scrips" and "scrip trading" can also be used in place of "blood notes" and "trade bars." |
Lost for words? Find them in the Glossary of Phrases, Sayings & Words of the Realms
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 05 Aug 2010 : 16:25:06
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| To me, scrips are bela...and previously offering paper "money" (bela) was considered an insult. |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Brace Cormaeril
Learned Scribe
294 Posts |
Posted - 05 Aug 2010 : 16:56:06
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The Zhentilar Zur, in my non-canon piece, "The Silver Fire's Blade", is heavily involved in these types of things, and new schemes in monetization in the Realms...
So stay tuned to "The Silver Fire's Blade", (in the Adventuring Forum) with lore you can't abhor! |
The Silver Fire's Blade: A Novella in Nine Parts, Available Soon, in the Adventuring Forum!
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 05 Aug 2010 : 17:08:19
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| I can abhor any lore...ask my wife... |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Brace Cormaeril
Learned Scribe
294 Posts |
Posted - 05 Aug 2010 : 17:40:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden
I can abhor any lore...ask my wife...
My girlfriend says:
I dare you to abhor "The Silver Fire's Blade", in the Adventuring Forum! |
The Silver Fire's Blade: A Novella in Nine Parts, Available Soon, in the Adventuring Forum!
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LordXenophon
Learned Scribe
USA
147 Posts |
Posted - 30 Apr 2017 : 02:20:21
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I believe what you are looking for are called "Letters of Trade." There is very little detail in the books, as to how these work, but they authorize you to pick up something that has been (or will be) shipped. It is essentially the shipping paperwork. They are not specific to Waterdeep, but are used all over the Heartlands.
In order to make Letters of Trade useful in my campaign, I had to work out a system whereby they would work. This will probably work for you, as well.
When traders arrange for third party shipping to another city, whether by ship, trading coster, or whatever means, they write out two identical documents, which specify where the shipment will be delivered and whatever other terms (such as holding period, pickup date, storage fee, payment due, etc.) were agreed upon. Both are signed by the sender and the shipper. These letters rarely say what is in the parcel. They use code numbers, the name of the sender or recipient, or some other means to identify specific shipments. This way, one barrel of ale, for example, could not be substituted for a different barrel of the same ale - it is guaranteed to be the exact same barrel.
One copy of the letter is sent with the shipment. Because there is no government postal system and there are no mailmen, a drop ship system is used. A caravan may be carrying dozens of third-party parcels. A ship may be carrying thousands. They all end up in one warehouse, where the shipper's copy of the Letter of Trade will be noted in a ledger and filed.
The sender's copy can be sent to the recipient in a variety of ways, but these letters are usually carried by the senders, who will eventually return to their home cities. They may even be travelling on the same ship, but will probably not be. The letters can even be sold or traded, thus the name.
Some letters of trade are not for drop shipments, but are rather authorizations for the bearer to pick up a certain amout of specified goods from the company's warehouse. This is done when a trader in one city wants goods to be delivered in anothe city, where the goods are already available. Only the letter need be sent. These work more like Mercenary Cards, but are claimed in the same way.
To claim the shipment, you go to the specified city, find the specified warehouse and present the Letter of Trade. If the shipment is still there (10% chance for old letters, according to the books), a clerk will match your Letter of Trade with their copy, compare signatures and, if they believe your letter is genuine, they will turn the shipment over to you.
I have further co-opted this system to get players to go where I want. I use index cards for random encounters. In my card file, there is a section with the names and locations of drop-ship warehouses. These are all in cities where I want the players to go. If a Letter of Trade is found, I tell them the address on one of these cards. There aren't very many, so I have no trouble finding one where I want them to go next.
When they claim the shipment, I draw a random card from another section, full of nothing but things I have decided are in these unclaimed shipments. I've seeded it with everything from cursed magic items, to drinks from Aurora's Whole Realms Catalog, to useless documents, to multiple copies of one Dwarven opera, to explanations of how the shipment was lost, to Ardraken's Refreshment Simulacrum. Some are even adventure seeds, such as when the players opened a chest and found the skeletal remains of a murder victim, from a 20-year-old unsolved murder, the investigation of which led to a change in leadership of one of Waterdeep's noble houses.
The last card I used, I happen to still have on my desk. The players were very excited, when the clerk told them that the shipment was "The Greatest Treasure in All the Land." It was just a painting of a green dragon, covered in treasure, only one talon and his face peeking out. They sold it to a tavern, for 200gp and a pitcher of Old One-Eye.
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Disintegration is in the eye of the Beholder. |
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trade notes
