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Dalor Darden
Great Reader

USA
3593 Posts

Posted - 25 Jul 2010 :  19:02:03  Show Profile Send Dalor Darden a Private Message  Reply with Quote  Delete Topic
It has occurred to me while reading some of my older books on the Forgotten Realms that once, long ago in a Forgotten Realms now seemingly forgotten, that the Savage Frontier was the very sort of "points of light" adventuring land now espoused by WotC.

I wonder at times if new WotC employees take the opportunity to read some of the older material before they start work on the Forgotten Realms?

The North then was a savage and brutal land very little settled at all...with tens of thousands of orcs, savage barbarians, ancient and fell ruins; and very little civilization at all.

I encourage anyone who can to read some of the 1st Edition Realms material...especially the Savage Frontier by Paul Jaquays (though I'm sure there is a LOT of Ed in there!).

AD&D for me!

Faraer
Great Reader

3308 Posts

Posted - 25 Jul 2010 :  19:26:15  Show Profile  Visit Faraer's Homepage Send Faraer a Private Message  Reply with Quote
It's a point that's not gone unmade, and the same definitely applies to the Western Heartlands (witness the besieged caravan in Hand of Fire), and the vast stretches of wilderness that are everywhere outside the few large stable kingdoms that are (as has also been observed) the exception in post-imperial Faerūn (not to mention the Great Desert, which barely even has such points).

Considering also Realms-2008's resurgent Cormyr, we conclude that this wasn't the driving contributing cause of the changes it was sometimes presented as, unless the designers were less informed and competent than I think they were.

Edited by - Faraer on 25 Jul 2010 20:16:58
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
31231 Posts

Posted - 25 Jul 2010 :  20:56:31  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
It's also been pointed out that the changing of the map for 3E removed some of the points of light setup that existed before. They scrunched down the map to get rid of "empty" space, and then decided there was need for more empty space!

Or the 4E complaint that there weren't any areas where a story could be told that hadn't already had a story set there -- followed by setting several books in one city.

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Dalor Darden
Great Reader

USA
3593 Posts

Posted - 25 Jul 2010 :  21:07:22  Show Profile Send Dalor Darden a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I guess what I'm saying is: what sort of Job Training do they put new employees through?

Is there required review of what has come before? Or, instead, are they simply allowed to go their own way?

AD&D for me!
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froglegg
Learned Scribe

317 Posts

Posted - 25 Jul 2010 :  22:14:20  Show Profile Send froglegg a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden

It has occurred to me while reading some of my older books on the Forgotten Realms that once, long ago in a Forgotten Realms now seemingly forgotten, that the Savage Frontier was the very sort of "points of light" adventuring land now espoused by WotC.

I wonder at times if new WotC employees take the opportunity to read some of the older material before they start work on the Forgotten Realms?

The North then was a savage and brutal land very little settled at all...with tens of thousands of orcs, savage barbarians, ancient and fell ruins; and very little civilization at all.

I encourage anyone who can to read some of the 1st Edition Realms material...especially the Savage Frontier by Paul Jaquays (though I'm sure there is a LOT of Ed in there!).


+1 Amen brother!

Long live Alias and Dragonbait! Kate Novak and Jeff Grubb the Realms need you more then ever!

On my word as a sage nothing within these pages is false, but not all of it may prove to be true. - Elminster of Shadowdale

The Old Grey Box gets better with age!
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Faraer
Great Reader

3308 Posts

Posted - 25 Jul 2010 :  23:26:41  Show Profile  Visit Faraer's Homepage Send Faraer a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden

I guess what I'm saying is: what sort of Job Training do they put new employees through?
There isn't any job training for managing shared secondary worlds.
quote:
Is there required review of what has come before? Or, instead, are they simply allowed to go their own way?

At least a few of the people involved were well enough aware of what had been (and what was still unpublished after twenty years); other factors were just more important. For those of us not at the meeting, which factors those are was confused by the impossible-to-believe 'best of all worlds' PR that mixed in actual commercial reasoning with other merely coincidental arguments, some of them transparently nonsensical, as here.

Legally, of course, they can do pretty much what they want.
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader

USA
3593 Posts

Posted - 25 Jul 2010 :  23:54:18  Show Profile Send Dalor Darden a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I am just wondering now, as I have in times past, if they know exactly what they are doing. Is it that they understand a longer cycle of marketing than we might give them credit for...or are they, as many say, simply flying blind and hoping for the best.

I would like to hope that they have some sense of customer connection to their products.

Its just that a reset might have served them better than an RSE...although none will ever know for certain.

AD&D for me!
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Faraer
Great Reader

3308 Posts

Posted - 26 Jul 2010 :  00:19:31  Show Profile  Visit Faraer's Homepage Send Faraer a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Remember that what happened was part of Wizards' restructuring 'to focus on key growth strategies for core brands', i.e. their cutback of personnel and product focus to D&D and Magic in response to the recession (hence no Realms product line, novels rebranded D&D, etc.). What seems inordinately careless and risky from the perspective and purposes of the Realms is much less so from that of their plan for D&D.
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31691 Posts

Posted - 26 Jul 2010 :  01:38:01  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

It's also been pointed out that the changing of the map for 3E removed some of the points of light setup that existed before. They scrunched down the map to get rid of "empty" space, and then decided there was need for more empty space!
The point was to fit as much land as possible onto the FRCS poster map. Rich Baker also explained it during a lengthy discussion on the REALMS-L.

A series of articles at WotC explains this somewhat, also:- http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fr/20010503

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-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)

"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood

Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage
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The Red Walker
Great Reader

USA
3542 Posts

Posted - 26 Jul 2010 :  01:56:19  Show Profile  Send The Red Walker a Yahoo! Message Send The Red Walker a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden

I am just wondering now, as I have in times past, if they know exactly what they are doing. Is it that they understand a longer cycle of marketing than we might give them credit for...or are they, as many say, simply flying blind and hoping for the best.

I would like to hope that they have some sense of customer connection to their products.

Its just that a reset might have served them better than an RSE...although none will ever know for certain.



I am 100% sure a reset would have better served everyone involved......It's just that I'm too tired to argue it!

A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka

"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -

John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
31231 Posts

Posted - 26 Jul 2010 :  03:37:01  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
It's not too late to do a reset, thinks I.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader

USA
3593 Posts

Posted - 26 Jul 2010 :  03:52:33  Show Profile Send Dalor Darden a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Classic Coke is oooooohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh so good.

AD&D for me!
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Calmar
Seeker

49 Posts

Posted - 26 Jul 2010 :  08:10:10  Show Profile Send Calmar a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden

I guess what I'm saying is: what sort of Job Training do they put new employees through?




They have to pass a complex qualifying examination...
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Zireael
Master of Realmslore

Poland
1190 Posts

Posted - 26 Jul 2010 :  10:43:45  Show Profile  Visit Zireael's Homepage Send Zireael a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by capnvan

There were, at one time, individuals tasked with maintaining continuity in the Realms. Steve Schend was one, for example. Whether that position was formal or not, I don't recall. although he was the manager of the FR product line for a time, I believe.



Are there any such people left in WotC?

SiNafay Vrinn, the daughter of Lloth, from Ched Nasad!

http://zireael07.wordpress.com/
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
31231 Posts

Posted - 26 Jul 2010 :  11:13:32  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Zireael

quote:
Originally posted by capnvan

There were, at one time, individuals tasked with maintaining continuity in the Realms. Steve Schend was one, for example. Whether that position was formal or not, I don't recall. although he was the manager of the FR product line for a time, I believe.



Are there any such people left in WotC?



Since 3E came out, there has been much less attention paid to maintaining continuity. So my guess is that no, they haven't worried about that in a long time.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31691 Posts

Posted - 26 Jul 2010 :  11:37:23  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I think it's always been more about struggling to maintain an internally consistent 3e-based continuity for the most part, with previous editions being considered after.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)

"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood

Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage

Edited by - The Sage on 26 Jul 2010 11:49:05
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