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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3563 Posts |
 Posted - 16 Jul 2010 : 14:38:08
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Labeling someone as a "4e Hater", an "old Grognard" or some other nonsense names(ive seen too many to list here) whenever anyone has a valid criticism is getting old and I for one a, sick of it
And guess what??? If you add a smiley to the end of an insult or inflamatiory comment.....IT DOES NOT make it OK!It is a weak crutch to prop up an even weaker arguement. (ie, if I cant win the debate I will call you names until the issue is murky and people forget the core discussion) A discussion I might add that Can have no winner!!! You cant beat someone out of there opinion......why waste energy trying????
But more seriously it is usually just an attempt to either start flames or add fuel to them.
Can we PLEASE stop throwing around names and try to do better ignoring the trolls???? (I know I have been baited by and called out a troll, but it does no good to feed them, they only escalate things until a scroll is locked. I dont remember labeling anyone a "hater" or any such thing but if I have in the past I'm sorry for that. )
I know this has died down thankfully(and is not as common, even if its as heated as ever), but even 1 or two instances a week/month are 1 or 2 too many.
Thanks for listening to my grumble
P.S. Please do not try to read anything into this such as......
The Red Walker ..... dammit , he is calling me out or
How dare he accuse me of that!...Etc, etc.
This is not pointed at any one scribe, more so an attitude that is spread though all fans with bias towards one "edition"
ed:sp(and yes thank you, I am sure I missed more errors! But I will blame them on my iPhone's touch screen )
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A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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Edited by - The Red Walker on 16 Jul 2010 15:57:25
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jul 2010 : 16:32:55
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Well, speaking personally, the "hate" just makes me tired and makes it unlikely that I'll participate, even if I've got something to say or some insight to give (as an active Realms designer).
Can we just agree that if you don't have anything to contribute, you just don't contribute?
That if you actively don't like something, you don't discuss it?
I hate to see Candlekeep go the way of other Internet "rant about whatever" sites.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3240 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jul 2010 : 16:53:01
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I agree with Erik. I've taken it so far that I'm ignoring posts by certain persons (Hey Sage, maybe an Ignore list function for CK2?). As before, I've only contributed to scrolls where I felt I had something to add, or if someone has asked for an opinion (and, of course, the average "off the rails" comments).
What upsets me is the baiting. Because then we're pulled into a discussion where the scribe asking the question isn't looking for opinions, but is simply looking to prove their own (perceived) superiority. |
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
Ashe's Character Sheet
Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
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Brace Cormaeril
Learned Scribe
294 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jul 2010 : 18:53:47
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Red Walker, I sincerely hope you follow your own advice.
Unfortunately, you fail to do so, since you have called me "troll" on other scrolls, merely because my opinion, fully sourced and equally as valid as your own, differed from yours.
Further, your original post reads as follows:
quote:
Originally posted by The Red Walker
Can we PLEASE stop throwing around names and try to do
better ignoring the trolls???? (I know I have been baited by and called out a troll, but it does no good to feed them, they only escalate things until a scroll is locked. I dont remember labeling anyone a "hater" or any such thing but if I have in the past I'm sorry for that. )
So "troll" is ok, but "grognard" or "4e hater" is not?
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The Silver Fire's Blade: A Novella in Nine Parts, Available Soon, in the Adventuring Forum!
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Zireael
Master of Realmslore
Poland
1190 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jul 2010 : 18:55:05
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart
(Hey Sage, maybe an Ignore list function for CK2?).
You should know what I'm going to say in reply to this. Right? 
Wouldn't it be a good idea to make it possible now... |
SiNafay Vrinn, the daughter of Lloth, from Ched Nasad!
http://zireael07.wordpress.com/ |
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Mr_Miscellany
Senior Scribe
545 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jul 2010 : 19:14:04
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Candlekeep has and continues to be extremely generous and patient when it comes to disruptive individuals (if this weren’t true, I’d not be around posting still), however the downside of this policy is very real: people stop finding the will to participate.
This is because people are either getting bashed or are not keen to post an opinion when it’s likely doing so will make them a target.
If the ‘Keep is going to allow highly abrasive individuals to remain, why not at least make it possible for people to ignore someone they view as a problem? In my opinion this would only stifle communication in one direction, while opening up communication for those who’d prefer to be able to enjoy the full experience of what Candlekeep has to offer.
I’d also like to add that Erik’s first points (Can we just agree that if you don't have anything to contribute, you just don't contribute? <and> That if you actively don't like something, you don't discuss it?) should remain at the front of our minds—because they best fit what Red Walker is asking us to do—even if an ignore feature were implemented. |
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Kilvan
Senior Scribe
Canada
894 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jul 2010 : 19:20:28
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| Why would anyone need an ignore function to actually ignore someone's comment? If you see you are being baited into making a flaming comment, just don't do it... Easy. IMO, an ignore list function would be as disruptive to the keep as making a 4e reserved shelf (which has been discussed in another scroll), I don't want that. |
Edited by - Kilvan on 16 Jul 2010 19:20:57 |
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3240 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jul 2010 : 19:51:58
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Well, the Ignore functions I know of simply make it so that if a person on the list post something, it shows that they posted, but not the content of that post (usually with a "show" button in case you actively want to see what they say). The benefit of this is that the only way you can be baited is if you actively choose to show the post. I know in many cases, across many different forums, I tend to start to type off a reply to baiting comments just because I read it (not as much anymore, I give myself a 10 count before typing nowadays).
It basically comes down to the fact that if you don't see it, you're not tempted to read it since your preference is that that poster says a lot of things that you don't agree with. And if you don't read it, then you're not baited into the argument that could follow. |
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
Ashe's Character Sheet
Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
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Mr_Miscellany
Senior Scribe
545 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jul 2010 : 20:16:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Kilvan
Why would anyone need an ignore function to actually ignore someone's comment? If you see you are being baited into making a flaming comment, just don't do it... Easy.
The kicker is that this is true for some scribes (that is, for some scribes it's easy to do—and I envy you your patience!), while for others it's not so easy.
I'm in the later category myself. Granted, how I feel shouldn't be what the 'Keep bases site-changes on, but I daresay there are enough scribes like me to where the suggestion of an ignore feature should merit some consideration.
Though now it occurs to me Sage and Wooley have probably covered this ground in private a time or two already. My apologies for digging up old graves if this is the case.  |
Edited by - Mr_Miscellany on 16 Jul 2010 20:17:56 |
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jul 2010 : 21:15:19
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First, the term 'hater' as blindly applied to whoever doesn't like what you do is the most obvious rothé-dung. I think labelling people is usually counterproductive for the reasons expressed here.
The idea that adding 'no offence' or a smiley to an offensive remark removes the offence is interesting: it's as if to think the added frame nullifies the previous one because there can only be one at a time, or it's like self-forgiveness for chronologically earlier sins.
I imagine the matter of how a forum should deal with baiting, ad hominem, insincere comments and other trollish non-communication varies by forum. (The posts are trollish; not worth speculating about the posters.) But I know how to deal with it as a poster: make the points that are relevant to the matter and other readers in general, and remember whose comments to take less seriously.
Erik: while I haven't felt like going on recently about what's happened to the Realms (though I could do it more coherently now than two years ago) -- and I also find inserting tangentially relevant criticism or digs into every other thread obnoxious -- I sometimes doubt that's for the best, because I don't think the shame of what Wizards did to Ed's world and his good faith is something to be ignored and forgotten. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jul 2010 : 21:16:32
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I can tell you from experience that even when you try to ignore the rudeness and still try to be helpful to certain individuals, they still revert to name calling.
If you feel threatened by others with vastly superior knowledge of the Realms, then CK is no place for you. I get 'schooled' by guys like George and Sage constantly. Also, just what is the point of going to a site everyday where no-one likes you? The only purpose would be to disrupt the goings-on there, for whatever ulterior motives one might have. I know I don't 'hang-out' where I'm not wanted - I'd have to be abnormal to do that.
That's like an American planning a 'family vacation' to Iraq.
Anyway, I just want it to be known that I am not talking about any one individual here - if you think I am targeting you then you must be paranoid. I like all my fellow scribes here, and strive to be as helpful as my incomplete knowledge of the Realms will allow.
After all, how can I feel anything but love for my fellow Realms fans? I mean, we are all here for the same reason........ right? 
quote:
Originally posted by Mr_Miscellany
quote:
Originally posted by Kilvan
Why would anyone need an ignore function to actually ignore someone's comment? If you see you are being baited into making a flaming comment, just don't do it... Easy.
The kicker is that this is true for some scribes (that is, for some scribes it's easy to do—and I envy you your patience!), while for others it's not so easy.
BINGO
Also, it is easy to ignore many posts (or PMs, for that matter), but an experienced troll knows exactly what to target, and where it will hurt most, just to illicit such a 'knee-jerk' response.
quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
That if you actively don't like something, you don't discuss it?
Soooooo.. its okay to discuss things you do like?
Only voice positive opinions? 
There has never been a time in CK's past where I person wasn't allowed to say "I didn't care for that product" - why should this need to change now? I agree that going on and on for pages about how much something 'sucks' should not be tolerated, but what you seem to be implying is that if we think something isn't very good, we should just keep our mouths shut.
I will go along with whatever the consensus is here, but I think that this whole 'walking on eggs' thing has really gotten out-of-hand. I feel like we are being told to just accept everything produced.
BTW, Erik, don't take that personally just because I quoted you - I have nothing but respect for you and have enjoyed your work. I have enjoyed nearly every TSR/WotC employee's writings and design in one product or another, so this isn't about 'people' at all, but rather the types of products that are now being released. Also not 4e-related - I often say I can run a great RP game with any set of rules, or even no rules at all.
This comes back to the topic - why is there so much negativity floating around now? People have played in different editions here since CK's conception, and we have always gotten along before, so blaming it on 4e (the rules) is just an excuse. There has never been a 'right' or 'wrong' edition to play in.
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"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 16 Jul 2010 22:33:08 |
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Mr_Miscellany
Senior Scribe
545 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jul 2010 : 21:57:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Only voice positive opinions?
I'll let him speak for himself, but to me Erik's idea read very, very simple: if you actively don't like something, why engage in a conversation with others that's A) sure to upset you even more and B) lead to that sentiment creeping into your posts and polluting the conversation?
Given Erik's statement about not wanting CK to turn into yet another "rant-about-anything" zone, I'm hard pressed to figure out how a call for quality discussion can be misconstrued as a call to speak only positive opinions.
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Rather self-serving, don't you think?
This is not cool, at all.
It (and the follow up to it by you) are in my view exactly the sort of judgementalism and snark we're talking about trying to avoid.
In the interests of civility--especially when dealing with a game designers/authors known for their thoughtful, articulate responses--why wouldn't you ask someone for clarification on what they meant before deciding it was appropriate to jump down their throats (and in the case above, impugning their personal character to boot)? |
Edited by - Mr_Miscellany on 16 Jul 2010 22:36:39 |
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capnvan
Senior Scribe
USA
592 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jul 2010 : 22:02:29
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Let's be fair - if you're going to hate, you have to do it right.
"I hate you. I hate you. I hate you. I don't even know you, but I hate you. I hate your guts. I hope all the bad things in life happen to you and only to you."
"Now, if you'll excuse me. I'm gonna go put water in Buck Nasty's Mama's dish."
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"Saving a life, though regrettable, is a small price to pay for a whole lifetime of unfettered killing." |
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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3563 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jul 2010 : 22:37:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Brace Cormaeril
Red Walker, I sincerely hope you follow your own advice.
Unfortunately, you fail to do so, since you have called me "troll" on other scrolls, merely because my opinion, fully sourced and equally as valid as your own, differed from yours.
Further, your original post reads as follows:
quote:
Originally posted by The Red Walker
Can we PLEASE stop throwing around names and try to do
better ignoring the trolls???? (I know I have been baited by and called out a troll, but it does no good to feed them, they only escalate things until a scroll is locked. I dont remember labeling anyone a "hater" or any such thing but if I have in the past I'm sorry for that. )
So "troll" is ok, but "grognard" or "4e hater" is not?
You didnt read the last line of my post ehh??? Just looking to pounce at any and everything or what? I said if I had done it in the past I was sorry. ( and I cannot recall ever posting Brace Cormaeril] is a troll......or hey! so and so scribe, that Brace is a troll!!.....as I also said in the scroll, this was not aimed at any scribe it was a generalization, so...
...I dont know how you could have came to the conclusion that I "have called you a troll in onther scrolls", which implies multiple, multiple "infractions", unless you have been behaving trollishly?? I am not saying you have, I just dont understand where you get that i called you a troll in "other scrolls", but If I did call you a Troll once, twice or whatever....Sorry about that, lets move on.
The last thing I want is another flame war , in a scroll I started trying to put some perspective on a problem.
And to be fair to Erik.... he said :
"Can we just agree that if you don't have anything to contribute, you just don't contribute?"
He did not say something positve, he said anything to contribute, which is very different from saying only post positve things. You can voice disagreement without useless negativity. And I think that is what my friend Erik is asking for and not "Like what I like Or dont post"
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A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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Edited by - The Red Walker on 16 Jul 2010 22:50:32 |
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Brace Cormaeril
Learned Scribe
294 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jul 2010 : 22:58:38
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quote:
Originally posted by The Red Walker
quote:
Originally posted by Brace Cormaeril
Red Walker, I sincerely hope you follow your own advice.
Unfortunately, you fail to do so, since you have called me "troll" on other scrolls, merely because my opinion, fully sourced and equally as valid as your own, differed from yours.
Further, your original post reads as follows:
quote:
Originally posted by The Red Walker
Can we PLEASE stop throwing around names and try to do
better ignoring the trolls???? (I know I have been baited by and called out a troll, but it does no good to feed them, they only escalate things until a scroll is locked. I dont remember labeling anyone a "hater" or any such thing but if I have in the past I'm sorry for that. )
So "troll" is ok, but "grognard" or "4e hater" is not?
You didnt read the last line of my post ehh??? Just looking to pounce at any and everything or what? I said if I had done it in the past I was sorry. ( and I cannot recall ever posting Brace Cormaeril[ i pronounce it with the same rythm as I would Bruce Cordell, sorry if that's wrong] is a troll......or het so and so scribe that Brace is a troll!!.....as I also said in the scroll, this was not aimed at any scribe it was a generalization, so...
...I dont know how you could have came to the conclusion that I "have called you a troll in onther scrolls", which implies multiple, multiple "infractions", unless you have been behaving trollishly?? I am not saying you have, I just dont understand where you get that,but If I did call you a Troll once, twice or whatever....Sorry about that, lets move on.
The last thing I want is another flame war , in a scroll I started trying to put some perspective on a problem.
And to be fair to Erik.... he said :
"Can we just agree that if you don't have anything to contribute, you just don't contribute?"
He did not say something positve, he said anything to contribute, which is very different from saying only post positve things. You can voice disagreement without useless negativity. And I think that is what my friend Erik is asking for and not "Like what I like Or dont post"
Yes, I will "pounce" upon disingenuinity. You have labeled me a troll because my opinions, though fully sources and equally as valid as others, differed from your own.
You made quick to establish that use of the terms "4e haters" and "grognards" should be abolished. "4e haters" and "grognards" beings terms which usually apply to vocal opponents of 4e and 'change in general'.
You go on to state that "trolls" on the other hand, should be igored. So *I* should be ignored? You *did* refer to me as a "troll".
Because I, *gasp*, dislike 4e but accept it as canon.
OH, THE HORRORS HE HAS SPAWNED!
HE'S TRYING TO RECRUIT THE COMMUNITY TO WORK TO BRIDGE THE GAP BETWEEN 3E and 4E IN A WAY THAT THE SETTINGS HARSHEST CRITICS WILL ENJOY!
YE' GODS! GET FIRE AND ACID!
HE'S TAKING THE BRIDGE!
RUUUUNNNNNN!!!!!!!
Pfftt...
I've always respected the opinions of the scribes here. Why else come? I know where I can find people who've forgotten more 'Realmlore that I'll ever know. Here at the 'Keep.
However, when some scribes, pennants firmly planted in the soil of Grognardia, tell me the world is flat and the moon is made of cheese, not because they believe it so, but because things are changing, and they wanna hold on to some 'perfect vision of Realms that never was'...
*that* is annoying.
Oh yeah, apology accepted. |
The Silver Fire's Blade: A Novella in Nine Parts, Available Soon, in the Adventuring Forum!
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Edited by - Brace Cormaeril on 16 Jul 2010 23:00:23 |
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Mr_Miscellany
Senior Scribe
545 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jul 2010 : 23:14:33
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| Red, see my PM. |
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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3563 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jul 2010 : 01:51:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Mr_Miscellany
Red, see my PM.
Duely noted. |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jul 2010 : 02:02:50
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| "Before you speak, ask yourself: is it kind, is it true, is it necessary, does it improve upon the silence?" - Shirdi Sai Baba |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jul 2010 : 02:07:24
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Hmmm. As always, a fair degree of interesting thoughts/opinions have been raised in this discussion. I won't comment too quickly on a few of the more pertinent points, but I think there's still room for further clarification and/or debate.
I want to see where this goes, first. The issue of an "ignore function," at least from my own experiences on boards elsewhere, sometimes tends to cause more problems than it solves, as some individuals can [and rightly so, I suppose, to a degree] take offence at the notion of being "ignored" by others. So, as I said, I'd like to see more discussion about the pros/cons of this issue, before we Mods/Admin ultimately decide which way to proceed. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 17 Jul 2010 02:10:50 |
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3240 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jul 2010 : 03:08:22
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Well, regarding the 'ignored individual', I'd have to say that if I were being ignored by a good portion of the forums I was visiting, the first thing I would do is take a step back and look at why I was being ignored.
If it was due to how I interacted with other posters and offended them, then I would have look at my own actions and determine if I needed to change my 'voice'/outlook to prevent offense.
On the other hand, if the ignore lists occurred simply because the other posters did not agree with me and did not want hear my side, then I would have to see if my side of the argument was one that was something I could either change or not bring up on the forums anymore.
Either way, the onus of changing the situation so I was no longer being ignored falls back on me. Do I a) change how I interact with the other guests of the forum so I can remove their negative opinion of my comments? b) Stop arguing/start agreeing with their side (probably the most difficult, and not always correct, thing to do)? Or c) do I accept that we have such a disjointed gap in our viewpoints that the only option is to walk away from the boards?
Now, I've never actually been 'ignored' on a forum, but I have come away from some boards where there was a large gap in their thoughts versus my own. Most of the time, I tried to modify my 'voice' so that I was being as respectful as possible to the other posters and shied away from major arguments (case in point, a lot of the religious/political threads on Paizo's Off Topic boards) and stuck to conversations and threads where I was able to contribute and enjoy my time on the boards. There have been a few boards where the fundamental differences were too broad and I simply walked away from the boards (or, turned into a lurker that would only 'catch up' on stuff once a month or so).
Basically it all comes down to this: if you're visiting a forum where it seems everyone is against you, then it's either because you're not respecting the other posters of the forum, or they see your view as inconsequential. Either way, a change of attitude has to occur on one side or the other to bring about change. And, since it's easier for one person to change than to have a group of people change for that one person, that single individual has to choose whether it's better to change or just walk away. |
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
Ashe's Character Sheet
Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
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Dark Wizard
Senior Scribe
USA
830 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jul 2010 : 03:20:06
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On other forums, I've seen posters who ignored an individual flaunt the fact that they have said individual on ignore. Vice versa, I've also seen the ignored taunting the ignorer even more to prompt a response (thus compelling them to turning off the ignore feature). Also, ignored content is often re-posted in quotes due to how most forum software handles the information. The ignore feature is a minor tool at best, a point of further agitation at worst. I feel the best way to promote quality discussion is to maintain proper moderation, the unfortunate cost is a lot of manpower (sagepower ).
I believe calmer responses will drastically de-escalate the more polarizing discussions in short order. Ashe's method of counting to ten is a good suggestion. I've found that looking up information in sources and notes helps to focus the reply on the relevant topic rather than infuse the post in snarky language or baiting words due to the immediate burst of initial thought.
Actual information trumps most attempts to continue heated discussions. For instance, at the WotC General Discussion forums, in the recent discussion about monster races in the Realms and racism, a few well informed replies by posters from Candlekeep completely changed how some posters there viewed one aspect of the Realms. Before the opposing posters were ardent denouncers of the Realms for apparent limitations to gamers and the insensitive wording used to portray those limitations. While the passages they quoted to support their arguments did exist in a published source, the vast majority of existing Realmslore showed a very different view on the matter.
This approach was much slower. Before I felt I had a decent reply to the above mentioned discussion, I gathered information by going through my available books. Still not satisfied, I asked the sages here for examples I had not encountered in my limited readings or examples I forgot. This was far less immediately gratifying, my immediate thought was to jump in with my forum fists raised. In the end, the informed and informative response proved more useful. I learned a lot from looking up and asking for information and I hope, in some way, my post and the other posters (from Candlekeep or otherwise) who made thoughtful replies helped those who followed the discussion see the Realms for its true depth and character. We are all here to discuss the Realms, I'm sure we can find common ground even if we have different perspectives and likes regarding the hobby. |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jul 2010 : 06:51:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
Well, speaking personally, the "hate" just makes me tired and makes it unlikely that I'll participate, even if I've got something to say or some insight to give (as an active Realms designer).
Can we just agree that if you don't have anything to contribute, you just don't contribute?
That if you actively don't like something, you don't discuss it?
I hate to see Candlekeep go the way of other Internet "rant about whatever" sites.
Cheers
Pretty much the reason I sometimes think of Candlekeep as The Rantkeep. And you're right, if others don't have anything good to contribute, why in the Nine Hells bother to bother others...
I most often ignore topics that discuss which edition is a gem and which is a total garbage, for I know I'm in for an endless dose of ranting. But then again, some people are just too TALENTED to turn even the safest topic to a land mine.
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Every beginning has an end. |
Edited by - Dennis on 17 Jul 2010 06:54:59 |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jul 2010 : 07:05:37
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quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart
Basically it all comes down to this: if you're visiting a forum where it seems everyone is against you, then it's either because you're not respecting the other posters of the forum, or they see your view as inconsequential. Either way, a change of attitude has to occur on one side or the other to bring about change. And, since it's easier for one person to change than to have a group of people change for that one person, that single individual has to choose whether it's better to change or just walk away.
Good point. But I see this happened before quite many times (not just here in CK): one individual posted a comment that totally was against those of the rest of the scribes and that single comment became a catalyst for some other scribes to post their opposing views. And so the cycle is never-ending.
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Every beginning has an end. |
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Kyrene
Senior Scribe
South Africa
738 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jul 2010 : 07:42:17
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I'd better not contribute to this scroll as I've been a bad, bad troll. In fact, just me saying I shouldn't be contributing is considered trolling. However, true trolls never learn, so...
To be fair to Red, he just pounced on two of the most recent brushes people have been tarred with. While "4E Hater" and "old Grognard" could both be applied to people that don't like the post-Spellplague Realms, and have probably been used in exasperation by people who do, they are just examples. I've personally seen the words "jerk", "anti-4ed whinning" (implying "whiner"), "pro-4ed whinning" (again implying "whiner") and many, many more.
I don't think differences of opinion should be avoided. In fact it should be encouraged. When such differences are fueled by an indivudual, that is probably trolling and should be stamped out. Differences of opinion should be voiced without the need for the above mentioned name-calling, even when the troll is trolling. Believe me, the moderators are not stupid, you don't need to call out "Here be trolls!" for them to react. And I've been guilty of that myself. 
I also don't think an ignore function is worth it. Mostly for the reasons other "anti-Ignore" (hehe, there's another label  ) scribes have mentioned. It's much easier, and have worked here at the 'Keep in the past, to self-ignore trolls or others you simply cannot stand to communicate with. If they continue to try and bait you, report it to a moderator, but don't for the love of Tempus respond!
Remember folks, trolls are not human, or elven, or gnomish, dwarven, halfling or any of the other intelligent races. Who knows how they think or why they do what they do?  And then there's that dastardly regeneration capability, so they always bounce back from any attack. And be sure to know that even if you attack them with acid or fire, you cannot do enough to kill them. The only safe troll is a muzzled troll in a cage. The only way to do that is to muzzle your troll yourself and to cage it yourself. That means no interaction with it whatsoever. Even prodding one can start the regeneration again.
Anyway, I've bent scribes ears enough now. I'll return to my cage and put on my muzzle.  |
Lost for words? Find them in the Glossary of Phrases, Sayings & Words of the Realms
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jul 2010 : 07:54:52
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Are you in-control of your 'inner-troll'?
I love being called a 'Grognard' - I wear it proudly as a badge of honor. If I ever make it to a Gencon, I will most definitely be wearing a shirt with that on it.
'4e-hater' is a misnomer. Its not the rules that bother so many of us.
Trolls are slimey, can I be an Ogre instead? Shrek made Ogres cool!
Don't quite understand those weird horn-thingies - was one of his parents an Andorian?
@Sage |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 17 Jul 2010 08:47:37 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
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Kajehase
Great Reader
Sweden
2104 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jul 2010 : 08:55:07
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| Sage, sage, sage. *shakes head sadly* Andorans are from Andor. Andorens (or maybe just andoren are from Andoran. |
There is a rumour going around that I have found god. I think is unlikely because I have enough difficulty finding my keys, and there is empirical evidence that they exist.
Terry Pratchett |
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jul 2010 : 09:29:52
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quote:
Originally posted by Brace Cormaeril
However, when some scribes, pennants firmly planted in the soil of Grognardia, tell me the world is flat and the moon is made of cheese, not because they believe it so, but because things are changing, and they wanna hold on to some 'perfect vision of Realms that never was'...
*that* is annoying.
OK, I tried to keep away as there is little point in being reasonable about anything here any more. But these kind of comments are in my opinion a bigger problem than name-calling between two posters. The generalisations used to annoy or offend as many posters as possible (usually with the excuse like "I didn't mean you" when commented on). So I like the old Realms TSR editions and don't follow new products. Then I am a Grognard and even though I never comment on anything Brace writes I am now dragged into this. Over the last couple of years I have also been categorized as one of the people who has given up on the Realms, a nostalgic that should get over it, a "typical" Candlekeep scribe, something other than a "true" Realms fan (by both sides as I don't care about 4ed. one way or another), hater, more or less Realms-killer, one who doesn't care because I haven't bought the latest book, and without a right to comment as I am not a customer. All with the wonderful help of generalizations and comments about "those posters" and "people who..." It has also been hinted a Candlekeep that going against canon in 'Keep submitted material is disrespectful of the writers, which is the final straw for me. It seems like I have to be one of the main sources of trouble here, at least as long as some posters (see I can do it to) feels the constant need to comment on what Candlekeep and a "true" Realms-fan should be. And all of this without being involved in the bloody discussions in the first place!
And the ridiculous thing is that it is a "Have you stopped beating your wife yet?" situation; if I do make an argument back or take offence I am putting myself in whatever group someone has a beef against. So it might seem like I am overreacting, but enough is enough.
Rant over. |
Edited by - Jorkens on 17 Jul 2010 09:30:34 |
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Kyrene
Senior Scribe
South Africa
738 Posts |
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Can't we Stop the labeling Each other Haters?
Topic Locked
