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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3240 Posts |
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Hawkins
Great Reader
USA
2131 Posts |
 Posted - 08 Jul 2010 : 20:32:57
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| Towards the end of the article, Chris mentions that much of the canon problems would have been avoided if they had reset the setting (1357 DR is the example he gives). I know that much "what iffing" had gone on here at the 'Keep lately, but I can't help but wonder, "What if they had reset the Realms instead of radically changing it?" |
Errant d20 Designer - My Blog (last updated January 06, 2016)
One, two! One, two! And through and through
The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
He left it dead, and with its head
He went galumphing back. --Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking-Glass
"Mmm, not the darkness," Myrin murmured. "Don't cast it there." --Erik Scott de Bie, Shadowbane
* My character sheets (PFRPG, 3.5, and AE versions; not viewable in Internet Explorer)
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My game design work:
* Heroes of the Jade Oath (PFRPG, conversion; Rite Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 1: Cantrips & Orisons (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 2: 1st-Level Spells (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Martial Arts Guidebook (forthcoming) (PFRPG, designer; Rite Publishing)
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
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mensch
Seeker
80 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jul 2010 : 21:17:41
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I really like his analysis of the different settings. The extreme amount of lore and details regarding the Forgotten Realms is why I really like the setting. I love fitting my stories snugly inside the established canon. I always understand that so much canon can be extremely hard to manage over time from a designers point of view.
Resetting the timeline would be interesting in theory, but I think it would have caused an even bigger player revolt than the Spellplague has. They way the Realms have been handled with the introduction of 4e D&D at least provides some continuity, while a complete reset would just throw all those post 1357 plot threads away. |
Some say the world will end in fire, Some say in ice. From what I’ve tasted of desire I hold with those who favor fire. But if it had to perish twice, I think I know enough of hate to know that for destruction ice is also great and would suffice. – Robert Frost (1874 - 1963) |
Edited by - mensch on 08 Jul 2010 21:18:12 |
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2449 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jul 2010 : 23:20:17
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Not to mention that they wouldn't be able to continue some of the novel lines, like Drizzt. I'm sure that also factored into the decision. Not saying it's good or bad, either, but Drizzt, and Elminster, are proven money-makers, and that's something no company likes to lightly give up.
Personally, I think I would have preferred a reset as well. It would have made all of the changes needed to make 4e mechanics work as well; in "this version" of the Realms, things really have always been that way. I don't think I would have had much, if any, problem with that at all. |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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Gambit
Learned Scribe
110 Posts |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jul 2010 : 00:39:06
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I know that my opinion is hardly universal, but I remain of the opinion that canon should be moved forward by both novels and game supplements. My interest in the Realms came more from novels than from the sourcebooks, and novels that didn't move the setting forward killed my interest in Dragginglance.
I also maintain that a reset would work for the Realms, but to keep the cash cows going, they'd have to essentially split into two settings -- the 4E Realms and the reset Realms. Rename one of them, start one over, and keep moving the other one forward from where it is. With the reset, you can tell new stories, retell some of the old ones, and generally avoid the mistakes made the first time around. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 09 Jul 2010 00:40:11 |
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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3563 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jul 2010 : 01:12:18
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| That's a good read. I would have loved a reset to most any year instead of spellplague. |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jul 2010 : 01:35:47
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
... and novels that didn't move the setting forward killed my interest in Dragginglance.
You and I have been over this many times, Wooly. And yet, I still can't agree with your assumption. Granted, some of the older "Heroes of the Lance" [and their associated books] tended to focus on the same period again and again, and could appear to be stagnant at times. But it was often among the novels that we actually began to see things change for the world. The novels were ultimately responsible for moving the setting forward, well into the 'Fifth Age' material and the so-called "Age of Mortals," especially when the campaign setting itself was banished to the nether-realms of "no-published-sourcebooks-limbo" between the end of 2e and 2003. And the post-War of Souls era has been one of progressive and varied story-line generation. We've got tales and events moving forward literally across the entire world of Krynn.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Gambit
Learned Scribe
110 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jul 2010 : 01:57:57
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
... and novels that didn't move the setting forward killed my interest in Dragginglance.
You and I have been over this many times, Wooly. And yet, I still can't agree with your assumption. Granted, some of the older "Heroes of the Lance" [and their associated books] tended to focus on the same period again and again, and could appear to be stagnant at times. But it was often among the novels that we actually began to see things change for the world. The novels were ultimately responsible for moving the setting forward, well into the 'Fifth Age' material and the so-called "Age of Mortals," especially when the campaign setting itself was banished to the nether-realms of "no-published-sourcebooks-limbo" between the end of 2e and 2003. And the post-War of Souls era has been one of progressive and varied story-line generation. We've got tales and events moving forward literally across the entire world of Krynn.
I will say this, I wasnt a big fan of a lot of what the 5th Age did, wholesale destruction of a lot of Ansalon and whatnot, the War of Souls trilogy was good, but it felt like slapping a band aid over a ferstering wound. I actually prefer the Age of Dragons alternate timeline that was presented in the Legend of the Twins sourcebook, which presents the world if the gods hadnt departed for a second time after the Chaos War. However with that said, the post War of Souls adventure trilogy set in the Age of Mortals was simply amazing. |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3285 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jul 2010 : 02:40:21
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They should have reset.
Drizzty killed the setting dead. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jul 2010 : 04:01:31
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
... and novels that didn't move the setting forward killed my interest in Dragginglance.
You and I have been over this many times, Wooly. And yet, I still can't agree with your assumption. Granted, some of the older "Heroes of the Lance" [and their associated books] tended to focus on the same period again and again, and could appear to be stagnant at times. But it was often among the novels that we actually began to see things change for the world. The novels were ultimately responsible for moving the setting forward, well into the 'Fifth Age' material and the so-called "Age of Mortals," especially when the campaign setting itself was banished to the nether-realms of "no-published-sourcebooks-limbo" between the end of 2e and 2003. And the post-War of Souls era has been one of progressive and varied story-line generation. We've got tales and events moving forward literally across the entire world of Krynn.
Well, the thing is, when I got bored with the setting, there were only 5 trilogies, and of those, only two moved the setting forward. The rest were going sideways or backwards, and didn't always mesh with the others (like Raistlin casually casting multiple polymorph spells in a story set before the Chronicles, when a sleep spell wore him out). Out of 15 books, only 6 moved the setting forward... At the time, I wanted to know more about the setting, but couldn't afford the sourcebooks and modules. So I had to rely on the novels, and they weren't moving the setting or telling me much about anything other than the Heroes of the Lance. Thus, I got bored.
And then I discovered the Realms, a setting that the novels were moving forward, and I got my hands on enough of the sourcebooks (particularly the FRA) to really whet my appetite for more. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jul 2010 : 05:05:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
The rest were going sideways or backwards, and didn't always mesh with the others (like Raistlin casually casting multiple polymorph spells in a story set before the Chronicles, when a sleep spell wore him out).
You might want to read through the Annotated Chronicles and Annotated Legends, should you have the extra gold pieces. The notes from Weis & Hickman in those tomes, help to elaborate, somewhat, on this apparent discontinuity.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jul 2010 : 05:23:18
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
The rest were going sideways or backwards, and didn't always mesh with the others (like Raistlin casually casting multiple polymorph spells in a story set before the Chronicles, when a sleep spell wore him out).
You might want to read through the Annotated Chronicles and Annotated Legends, should you have the extra gold pieces. The notes from Weis & Hickman in those tomes, help to elaborate, somewhat, on this apparent discontinuity.
Well, that was just one of many things that didn't make sense... Like, if Sturm went to one of the moons, how did he not mention that later, to his closest friends? You'd think that would be a bit more noteworthy than going back to your hometown... |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jul 2010 : 06:06:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
The rest were going sideways or backwards, and didn't always mesh with the others (like Raistlin casually casting multiple polymorph spells in a story set before the Chronicles, when a sleep spell wore him out).
You might want to read through the Annotated Chronicles and Annotated Legends, should you have the extra gold pieces. The notes from Weis & Hickman in those tomes, help to elaborate, somewhat, on this apparent discontinuity.
Well, that was just one of many things that didn't make sense... Like, if Sturm went to one of the moons, how did he not mention that later, to his closest friends? You'd think that would be a bit more noteworthy than going back to your hometown...
Well, Weis & Hickman have noted that previous inconsistencies and timeline-related mishaps plagued a lot of their early DRAGONLANCE work. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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BlackAce
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
358 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jul 2010 : 08:00:20
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I can't help but agree with him. The second the novels shifted away from minor happenings into a spiral of the NEXT GREAT RSE, the Forgotten Realms' days as a viable campaign setting were numbered.
Simply put: Too many RSE Trilogies, not enough ordinary people Trilogies. |
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2449 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jul 2010 : 13:31:50
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That's a fault of the types of novels that were written, not that novels themselves were written. Maybe it's because I'm an old hand and was introduced to the Realms during the 2e run, when the only RSE was the original RSE: the Time of Troubles. But if you have things like the Harpers series, I don't think it does anything but expand the world. Or even Drizzt, I mean, how many people wanted to run a campaign in Menzo, or in Icewind Dale, after those books came out? And didn't they do a great job of detailing the setting? If my PC's ever wandered through Menzo, I know the Drizzt books would be the first place I'd go.
Elaine's Halruaa series is an even better example. That entire nation had, over the entire run, pretty much just one section of one book devoted to it (since the 3e Shining South was pretty much just a reprint of the original Shining South, only with PrC's). So you had a skeleton, but for real flesh you had to read the novels. And then you can choose to put your own adventures before, after, or even during, the main plot.
I don't know, I think he's making one of the sweeping generalizations he seems to detest so much. I think novels can do as much as gaming products to open a world to exploration, but just like anything else, they can be done badly. The Blade Kingdoms novel is a case in point for how to NOT do novels for an isolated area, for instance. |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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Thauramarth
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
729 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jul 2010 : 14:07:29
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Ah - novels versus game settings again. My favourite subject  .
I think Chris Sims has a point - incorporating novels (all novels) in the game setting is a bad thing. For the game setting.
If one is more interested in things happening in the world, then incorporating the novels is good, of course - not unlike the DC and Marvel universes (and their many, many parallels, from what I understand). For a game setting, however, that's not too good, because once a novel becomes canon, it becomes difficult to ignore. This is certainly the cases for RSE novels (ToT, Tuigan invasion, Maztica, Return of the Archwizards, etc.), but also to some extent for the smaller event novels. Not THAT much - most of the Drizzt stories (up to the Hunters' Blade trilogies and later), for instance, can be ignored quite handily by gamers - they take place in a relatively isolated area, and cause relatively little upheaval in the wider world.
Fiction is useful, and it's entertaining, but incorporating it as such usually leads to trouble. The incorporation of Drizzt in the game setting, back in 1E/2E (FR7-Hall of Heroes) was a first indication of this - in order to align his skill in the novels with prevailing AD&D rules, new rules had to be invented, explaining his "instant kills" on monsters that could not happen under the existing, canon rules. I'm not saying there should not be any crossover between game setting and fiction - Hoondatha's example of Menzoberranzan is a good one. The location was developed in the novels, but it was incorporated in the game setting through a game supplement, which gamers that did not care for it can happily ignore. For those who want to play in Menzo, the novels are useful but not indispensable. Not so for RSEs. Most of the Harper novels, although they develop the setting, do not cause major changes (the one example that can I quote, off the top of my head, was The Parched Sea putting the Bedine in Anauroch, which never made sense to me). |
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Quale
Master of Realmslore
1757 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jul 2010 : 14:29:47
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| I always considered the novels as guidelines, something that may happen if the pcs switched places with the novel characters. The obsession with following canon is very strange. E.g. Drizzt in my Realms is a character imagined when I first saw the picture on the cover of the 2e campaign box, CG Ranger 16 was all the additional useful information. |
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Apex
Learned Scribe
USA
229 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jul 2010 : 15:24:47
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| It wasn't until I found Candlekeep that I even knew that everything published in a novel was considered canon anyways (of course I never incorporated anything beyond 2nd edition). It seems to me that had the novels not been canon (or at least all of them), then maybe we could have avoided this whole spellplague mess in the first place. |
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Kyrene
Senior Scribe
South Africa
725 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jul 2010 : 17:22:41
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I’m more and more becoming of the opinion that game settings should not be moved forward at all. 
Sweeping statement, I know, so let me explain. If a certain level of detail were established in the OGB, then 2E should have only updated that detail to fit with the newer/different rules. In between the two, sourcebooks should have painted a wider picture, but still at year X of the setting. Novels could do the same, but again because the setting is not being moved forward, only sideways, their only role would be to establish further lore (canon or not) or what-f scenarios.
Then comes 3E/3.5E and again, only what has come before (OGB plus 1E supplements having already been made 2E, plus 2E supplements) needs to be made 3E/3.5E, allowing for new 3E material without having to re-invent/break the wheel each time. Cash would still be flowing in, and nothing in the previous editions would ever become invalidated either.
This also means that apart from mechanics, there would be no edition wars, as every single player in the setting would start on even footing.
Yeah, crazy, I know.
*waits for the counter-arguments to start* |
Lost for words? Find them in the Glossary of Phrases, Sayings & Words of the Realms
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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3563 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jul 2010 : 18:25:47
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quote:
Originally posted by Kyrene
I’m more and more becoming of the opinion that game settings should not be moved forward at all.
Sweeping statement, I know, so let me explain. If a certain level of detail were established in the OGB, then 2E should have only updated that detail to fit with the newer/different rules. In between the two, sourcebooks should have painted a wider picture, but still at year X of the setting. Novels could do the same, but again because the setting is not being moved forward, only sideways, their only role would be to establish further lore (canon or not) or what-f scenarios.
Then comes 3E/3.5E and again, only what has come before (OGB plus 1E supplements having already been made 2E, plus 2E supplements) needs to be made 3E/3.5E, allowing for new 3E material without having to re-invent/break the wheel each time. Cash would still be flowing in, and nothing in the previous editions would ever become invalidated either.
This also means that apart from mechanics, there would be no edition wars, as every single player in the setting would start on even footing.
Yeah, crazy, I know.
*waits for the counter-arguments to start*
Bleech....too logical |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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Edited by - The Red Walker on 09 Jul 2010 23:42:35 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jul 2010 : 23:36:43
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Great blog - I agree with him totally. Its of my opinion that the novels that moved the setting forward are exactly what lead to the downfall of the Realms (the necessity of the Spellplague, in-order to reset people's preconceptions of the Realms, as much as it was to reset the Realms itself).
There were a lot of good novels that told smaller stories - most notably those in the anthologies - that still moved the setting along, but at a snail's pace, without all the logic-defying RSE's.
The idea that the novels became a vehicle for designers-turned-authors to change the Realms in sweeping, dramatic ways was terrible, IMHO. Nearly all of them immediately invalidated some part of existing Realmslore, which drove most DMs nuts and why many - like myself - had to mentally separate the canon-realms from the one we ran.
I would have preferred an Almanac-like book that moved the setting forward, much like they had with Mystara (OD&D). Just a timeline of the past year with some bare-bones info on each entry, and maybe a little more on the more important bits. Throw in a couple of recently-discovered spells and magic devices, along with a plethora of rumors, and that would have been pure 'Win', I think.
Then the novels could have fleshed-out some of those stories, or created entirely new ones - but kept localized, so as not to upset the 'balance' of anyone's game.
Another idea I had - after getting into a 'heated' conversation with Erik Mona* about publishing costs - was to turn some paperbacks into sourcebooks, since they are SO much cheaper to produce. Ed did a bang-up job with the Volo's guides - why couldn't they be made into a paperback format? Sure, you would have to make it VERY clear on the cover that it was a 'world book' for the Forgotten Realms, rather then a novel, but the way Ed wrote the Volo's guides they were just like stories anyway.
Unfortunately, after having that 'brilliant epiphany' (), and posting the idea over at WotC, I had none other then Margaret Weis tell me that they tried something like that with Dragonlance, by including game-data at the end of the novels (which sounds SO utterly cool to me!)
So, since the combo novel/sourcebook idea was tried and apparently failed (guess DMs didn't like their players reading those specifics), I really doubt that WotC will ever try that route again. Which is unfortunate, because i think it would work in the realms, even if it didn't really take-off in DL
If the problem truly was DM-only info at the end of the stories, then those crunchy-bits could be on the DDi, perhaps in a DM-only area (not sure how that would work - maybe charge a little more?) Or maybe in free (yeah... right...) Web-Enhancements; this way, people only interested in reading about the setting wouldn't have to look at all that game-data. That might involve placing a code within the novels to view that extra-info, which leads to other problems... I remember all those open bags on the magazine rack at Border's where people stole the CD's (and in the case of Dragon, Maps!) out of various game and computer-related mags. 
I'm sure better corporate minds then mine could come-up with a workable solution to turn sourcebooks into paperbacks - the savings would be enormous, and we could get 3-4 hundred (or more!) pages of Realmslore for abut $8. Screw the artwork - we all know what Drizzt looks like anyway.
You could probably go through the last ten years of 'Ask Ed' threads and turn that into a dozen or so bestsellers.
*I took exception to the price of today's sourcebooks, and used the Golarion one as an example, asking why they were so damn expensive, when paper-backs with FAR MORE pages cost around $8. He took the opportunity (on the Paizo boards) to 'school me' about publishing. I learned a lot, and have total respect for the man - he responded to my off-hand comment within 24 hrs - WotC take note! |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 09 Jul 2010 23:57:45 |
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sfdragon
Great Reader
2285 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jul 2010 : 01:02:07
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Novels should be canon only if they are regional shaking events( which if it affects the north of toril, its regional) or realms shaking events.
if they are small town local, then it should only matter to the DM if its considered canon.
but as been said before, if your DM uses high lvl npcs that appeared in a novel and uses him wrong, than your dm made the mistake as said npcs are not supposed to be used like that.
If one plays in Shadowdale then the DM has the right to say that Elminster and Storm both are out in Aglorand having tea with the Symbol and wont be back until after the bbeg is defeated congradulating the pcs of their victory.
and If I ever hear the why doesnt ELminster do it with his armies ever again I will dip the person in honey and throw him the ants
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why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power
My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234 |
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BlackAce
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
358 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jul 2010 : 03:18:24
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| Argh! NOOO! No more RSEs EVER! They are precisely the thing that has destroyed FR as a D&D setting. I am SO SICK of seeing the setting mucked about with again and again over the last decade and each time some Wizards muckety-muck made a promise it would be the last one, only for another even stupider one to be released the next year. |
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Caolin
Senior Scribe
768 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jul 2010 : 05:45:37
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| I don't think you can ever take canon away from novels. The number of people whose only exposure to the Realms and DnD in general is through the novels. They actually dwarf the number of people who play the game. The novels have to remain the driving force for the overall narrative of the setting, otherwise you will drive away the money that supports the game product. |
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Brace Cormaeril
Learned Scribe
294 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jul 2010 : 10:15:29
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Hey, WotC/Hasbro! This fan want's MORE Realms Shaking Events, please!
The RSE's are great ways to move the setting forward! Additionally, I really appreciate the fact that NO PREVIOUS LORE HAS BECOME UNTENABLE with the various edition changes, novel additions, and Realms Shaking Events.
WotC/Hasbro, I really appreciate the way that you've continued to develop the Forgotten Realms with exciting events that have significant effects on the whole world! It would be uber-lame if my and my friends' characters existed in a vacuum!
Keep the Realms Shaking Novels coming, please, and keep them canon! I like my fantasy like I like my women: High, epic, titular, and of consequence.
P.S. I actually buy your products. |
The Silver Fire's Blade: A Novella in Nine Parts, Available Soon, in the Adventuring Forum!
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Edited by - Brace Cormaeril on 10 Jul 2010 10:19:27 |
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Bluenose
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
134 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jul 2010 : 11:21:51
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quote:
Originally posted by Kyrene
I’m more and more becoming of the opinion that game settings should not be moved forward at all.
Sweeping statement, I know, so let me explain. If a certain level of detail were established in the OGB, then 2E should have only updated that detail to fit with the newer/different rules. In between the two, sourcebooks should have painted a wider picture, but still at year X of the setting. Novels could do the same, but again because the setting is not being moved forward, only sideways, their only role would be to establish further lore (canon or not) or what-f scenarios.
Then comes 3E/3.5E and again, only what has come before (OGB plus 1E supplements having already been made 2E, plus 2E supplements) needs to be made 3E/3.5E, allowing for new 3E material without having to re-invent/break the wheel each time. Cash would still be flowing in, and nothing in the previous editions would ever become invalidated either.
This also means that apart from mechanics, there would be no edition wars, as every single player in the setting would start on even footing.
Yeah, crazy, I know.
*waits for the counter-arguments to start*
Far too sensible an argument to appeal. Though I can give you two examples where I think a world has been 'advanced' in it's timeline competently.
The first is by TSR, with Mystara. The Gazeteers were all set in the same time period regardless of when they were published, so you had the basic information about the state of the world available to you. For many GMs that was enough, and they'd move on in their own way without regard for anything else published. The other product that did advance the timeline was the Almanacs (Poor Wizards', Joshuan's). Those came out once a year and included a calendar of events that happened that year, as well as other information such as a brief description of the state of the various nations and other material. I'm pretty sure that there are people who'd be very happy to buy such a product for their favourite setting, if a company was publishing such a thing at the moment.
The second example of a game with an advancing timeline comes from GDW, with it's Traveller game and the Third Imperium setting. Since they published a magazine (JTAS, Challenge) they included in every issue entries from the Travellers' News Service describing recent events as the news service saw them, which sometimes included references to things that happened in published adventures and their assumed outcome. The same TNS is still being published by email by SJG, and I'm quite certain that something similar could be done on the web to keep people up to date with the events in their settings - it's being done in some computer games, and I can't think of many serious companies that couldn't do the same sort of thing with their web pages. |
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Kyrene
Senior Scribe
South Africa
725 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jul 2010 : 11:57:59
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quote:
Originally posted by The Red Walker
Bleech....too logical
quote:
Originally posted by Bluenose
Far too sensible an argument to appeal.
Ye gods, I'm turning into Spock?! |
Lost for words? Find them in the Glossary of Phrases, Sayings & Words of the Realms
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sfdragon
Great Reader
2285 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jul 2010 : 14:13:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Brace Cormaeril
Hey, WotC/Hasbro! This fan want's MORE Realms Shaking Events, please!
The RSE's are great ways to move the setting forward! Additionally, I really appreciate the fact that NO PREVIOUS LORE HAS BECOME UNTENABLE with the various edition changes, novel additions, and Realms Shaking Events.
WotC/Hasbro, I really appreciate the way that you've continued to develop the Forgotten Realms with exciting events that have significant effects on the whole world! It would be uber-lame if my and my friends' characters existed in a vacuum!
Keep the Realms Shaking Novels coming, please, and keep them canon! I like my fantasy like I like my women: High, epic, titular, and of consequence.
P.S. I actually buy your products.
I feel your pain
oh and I want no more realm shaking events
I want region shaking events like cormyr |
why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power
My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234 |
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sfdragon
Great Reader
2285 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jul 2010 : 14:14:11
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quote:
Originally posted by Brace Cormaeril
Hey, WotC/Hasbro! This fan want's MORE Realms Shaking Events, please!
The RSE's are great ways to move the setting forward! Additionally, I really appreciate the fact that NO PREVIOUS LORE HAS BECOME UNTENABLE with the various edition changes, novel additions, and Realms Shaking Events.
WotC/Hasbro, I really appreciate the way that you've continued to develop the Forgotten Realms with exciting events that have significant effects on the whole world! It would be uber-lame if my and my friends' characters existed in a vacuum!
Keep the Realms Shaking Novels coming, please, and keep them canon! I like my fantasy like I like my women: High, epic, titular, and of consequence.
P.S. I actually buy your products.
I feel your pain
oh and I want no more realm shaking events
I want region shaking events like cormyr |
why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power
My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234 |
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Canon Fodder
