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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
 Posted - 01 Jul 2010 : 10:03:22
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Poll Question:
When the word “arch-villains” is mentioned in the realms, readers often think of Szass Tam, Telamont, Larloch (though arguably, since he seems to be more neutral than evil), the Sojourner, Sammaster, Manshoon “The Cockroach”... And see what's common about them? Obviously, they're all males. Hardly a surprise because high fantasy books often favor the male to spread evil and wreck havoc in the lands.
So why not have long-staying arch-villainesses in the Realms? That is, female evil characters that do not just scrabble over a bag of gold, but those whose magical or divine power are great enough (equal or nearly equal to the might of the males aforementioned) to cause drastic changes in an entire realm or a considerable part of Faerun.
I do not want this to turn out to be an issue on inequality (between either sexes, in the realms). I just want variety, and perhaps a certain kind of “newness.”
Who do you think WOULD make (with a little boost of power and longer exposure) an interesting arch-villainess?
Mod Edit: Added the SPOILER notice to the scroll's title.
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Every beginning has an end. |
Edited by - The Sage on 02 Jul 2010 01:27:45
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Nicolai Withander
Master of Realmslore
Denmark
1093 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jul 2010 : 11:39:24
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| I dont know any of them... who are they? |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jul 2010 : 12:01:02
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They balanced this out in 4e.
They removed all the female 'good guys' as well.  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jul 2010 : 12:06:20
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Lallara - Zulkir of Abjuration (appeared in The Simbul's Gift and the Haunted Lands trilogy)
Quenthel - sister of Gromph Baere (surely you know him?)
Kya - the evil sorceress in Pools of Radiance: Ruins of Myth Drannor
Sysquemalyn - a vengeful Netherese wizard in Netheril Trilogy
Elyril - a deranged Sharran priest in Twilight War
Triel - Matron of House Baenre
Kiva - an annoying villainess in Counselors and Kings
Durthans - evil Rashemi witches
Dmitra - Zulkir of Illusion (appeared in HL trilogy)
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jul 2010 : 12:12:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
They removed all the female 'good guys' as well.
At least they're keeping Alassra. Ed said we will still see more of her. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Ruul
Seeker
USA
64 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jul 2010 : 13:12:38
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| When it comes to pure deranged evil, you just can't beat Quenthel Baenre. Kiva would be my second choice. |
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capnvan
Senior Scribe
USA
592 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jul 2010 : 13:20:57
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quote:
Originally posted by dennis
[Larloch (though arguably, since he seems to be more neutral than evil)
Just a quibble - I think it's been fairly well established over the years that Larloch is thoroughly evil. It's just that much of what he's doing doesn't have any noticeable effect on the Realms, as perceived by PCs et al. |
"Saving a life, though regrettable, is a small price to pay for a whole lifetime of unfettered killing." |
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Kilvan
Senior Scribe
Canada
894 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jul 2010 : 13:51:55
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| Quenthel was interesting, depending on the author, in WotSQ. I don't know most of the others, so I voted for her. |
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Asharak
Learned Scribe
France
268 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jul 2010 : 14:51:33
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Dmitra Flass, she wed Rassendyll/Selfaril High Blade of Mulmaster, looks interesting  ... |
"Soyez réalistes : demandez l'impossible"
Sorry for my English... it's not my native tongue. |
Edited by - Asharak on 01 Jul 2010 14:53:28 |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
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sfdragon
Great Reader
2285 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jul 2010 : 19:23:37
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| Triel is dead isn't she?? |
why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power
My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234 |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jul 2010 : 19:58:27
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quote:
Originally posted by sfdragon
Triel is dead isn't she??
She lives. It was Quenthel who died (killed by Drizzt) but was resurrected. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jul 2010 : 20:04:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
I voted for Tiel, because she ruthlessly rules the most powerful House in Menzo, and had Jeggred for a son. Congress with a glabrezu? It don't GET any more evil thatn THAT, honey!
Edit- script time message- CK seems to be having issues today....
She's hardly ready to rule Menzo. She keeps on depending on Gromph's and Quenthel's advice....and insecure of her height.
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althen artren
Senior Scribe
USA
780 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jul 2010 : 20:11:53
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You're forgetting the Serpent-Queen. I wish we would see more of
her in print. |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jul 2010 : 20:15:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Ruul
When it comes to pure deranged evil, you just can't beat Quenthel Baenre. Kiva would be my second choice.
Quenthel would be my second choice. Evil to the core, and never hesitated to slay to further her position. But I still have reservations about priestesses. While they can become powerful, I don't like the idea that they are just their deities' pawns, slaves to all their whims...
So my first choice is Lallara. She's undoubtedly evil and enjoys tormenting people for the heck of it. And she's chatty and humorous. Poor Samas Kul, always a victim of her sarcasm. 
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jul 2010 : 20:27:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Asharak
Dmitra Flass, she wed Rassendyll/Selfaril High Blade of Mulmaster, looks interesting ...
I find her interesting, too. But if she were to be an archvillainess, she'll be more like Larloch (though she could most probably not attain his level in power). In HL, she preferred to work behind the scenes, and let her minions/agents carry her plans out. It was in the war prior and during the SP that she took an overt stand against Tam.
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skychrome
Senior Scribe
713 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jul 2010 : 20:42:53
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| Voted for Triel. Second would be Kiva. |
"You make an intriguing offer, one that is very tempting. It would seem that I have little alternative than to answer thusly: DISINTEGRATE!" Vaarsuvius, Order of the Stick 625 |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jul 2010 : 20:57:39
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quote:
Originally posted by capnvan
quote:
Originally posted by dennis
[Larloch (though arguably, since he seems to be more neutral than evil)
Just a quibble - I think it's been fairly well established over the years that Larloch is thoroughly evil. It's just that much of what he's doing doesn't have any noticeable effect on the Realms, as perceived by PCs et al.
Well, as per canon, he is "lawful evil." So my fault...It's just that I don't see his evil deeds in the Realms, and for me a "seemingly absent" evil is neutral, or almost.
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woodwwad
Learned Scribe
USA
267 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jul 2010 : 21:04:03
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There is Darkhope & there is that wizard who was responsible for making Alias in Azure Bonds. Those are the only 2 I can think of. I didn't know any of the names you mentioned either. I would guess it comes down to the FRs writings being largely male & not thinking they can write female characters well. I really hate reading female characters written by guys who do them poorly.
I think I run female npcs well, a lot better than more guys, & I have a lot of "bad girls" in my FR game. I think female villians aren't especially hard to write + the fact that they are female can end up having the pcs deal very differently with them which can help change things up. |
Check out my reviews on youtube of Forgotten Realms and other rpg products. http://www.youtube.com/user/woodwwad?feature=mhum |
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sfdragon
Great Reader
2285 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jul 2010 : 21:38:03
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quote:
Originally posted by dennis
quote:
Originally posted by sfdragon
Triel is dead isn't she??
She lives. It was Quenthel who died (killed by Drizzt) but was resurrected.
and big evil Q killed Triel. |
why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power
My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234 |
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IngoDjan
Learned Scribe
Brazil
146 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jul 2010 : 21:41:08
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| Sarya |
Ingo Djan
DUNGEON MASTER AO OF THE DIAMONDS!"I see the future repeat the past. It all is a museum of great news. The Time do not stop." |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jul 2010 : 22:00:24
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Sarya looks interesting for the fact that she's half-fiend. But I never liked elves, save a few drow. Haven't read (and never will) The Last Mythal, where, at least from what I gleaned in Wiki, she had more exposure and died. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jul 2010 : 01:26:27
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| Fellow scribes, I'm noticing a few tidbits from specific novels popping up in this discussion. So I'd also like to note that should any of you wish to reveal certain events from novels, please use either the SPOILER tags, or declare SPOILERS before you reveal the information. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jul 2010 : 02:15:16
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Shyressa, of the Twisted Rune, is another. See both Empires of the Shining Sea and Master of Chains.
I read a bit about her after reading your post. Hmmm, I'm now inclined to read those books.
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jul 2010 : 02:27:08
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Sage, I came across a tidbit...There's a female lich who's a member of the Twisted Rune named Jymahna. Is she as interesting as Shyressa? Did she appear in novels?
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jul 2010 : 02:37:39
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quote:
Originally posted by dennis
Sage, I came across a tidbit...There's a female lich who's a member of the Twisted Rune named Jymahna. Is she as interesting as Shyressa?
Well, she's a lich. So that's already a plus in my book, given my deep interest in all-things-lichdom. And I'd say the whole mystery surrounding her mask is intriguing enough [and certainly something I'd like to know more about]. I suppose this question would really be partly dependent on whether you're a vampire- or lich-fan. 
quote:
Did she appear in novels?
Not specifically, no. Which is a shame, because I'd really like to learn more about her. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jul 2010 : 02:59:00
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A shame indeed...I'd find her interesting because I am a lich fan, too. Did all the members of the Twisted Rune survive the SP?
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Every beginning has an end. |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jul 2010 : 03:10:11
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I think the Ice Queen (the high priestess of Auril in The Ruin) would also make an incredible archvillainess. Not to mention sexy. Too bad she died. Her final battle with Zethrindor is one of the well-executed/written battles in the realms. (But of course I am partial to Richard.) 
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jul 2010 : 03:15:03
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quote:
Originally posted by dennis
A shame indeed...I'd find her interesting because I am a lich fan, too. Did all the members of the Twisted Rune survive the SP?
I don't recall it being specifically mentioned, but the brief reference about the Twisted Rune in FRCG doesn't note any particular impact of the Spellplague upon the cabal. Though, given the intricate levels of arcana weaved through the organisation and those arcane elements that greatly support some memebers, I doubt they all escaped completely unscathed.
I'll note also that Bruce R. Cordell's "Tomb of the Astronomer" article from DRAGON #360 doesn't reference any particular effect of the Spellplague upon the undead spellcasters either. [Though, the actual time-placement of that write-up is kinda vague.] |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jul 2010 : 03:26:31
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Thanks, Sage.
I think it's safe to infer that the effects of the SP to them are like those to Szass Tam. He was considerably enervated and he lost some of his powerful, self-devised spells. But alive.
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Topic |
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Why not an Arch-villainess? [potential SPOILERS]
Topic Locked
