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 Why not an Arch-villainess? [potential SPOILERS]
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Dennis
Great Reader

9933 Posts

Posted - 01 Jul 2010 :  10:03:22  Show Profile Send Dennis a Private Message  Delete Topic
Poll Question:
When the word “arch-villains” is mentioned in the realms, readers often think of Szass Tam, Telamont, Larloch (though arguably, since he seems to be more neutral than evil), the Sojourner, Sammaster, Manshoon “The Cockroach”... And see what's common about them? Obviously, they're all males. Hardly a surprise because high fantasy books often favor the male to spread evil and wreck havoc in the lands.

So why not have long-staying arch-villainesses in the Realms? That is, female evil characters that do not just scrabble over a bag of gold, but those whose magical or divine power are great enough (equal or nearly equal to the might of the males aforementioned) to cause drastic changes in an entire realm or a considerable part of Faerun.

I do not want this to turn out to be an issue on inequality (between either sexes, in the realms). I just want variety, and perhaps a certain kind of “newness.”

Who do you think WOULD make (with a little boost of power and longer exposure) an interesting arch-villainess?


Mod Edit: Added the SPOILER notice to the scroll's title.

Choices:

Lallara Mediocros
Quenthel Baenre
Kya Mordrayn
Elyril
Triel Baenre
Sysquemalyn
Kiva
One of the Durthans
Dmitra Flass

(Anonymous Vote)

Every beginning has an end.

Edited by - The Sage on 02 Jul 2010 01:27:45

Nicolai Withander
Master of Realmslore

Denmark
1084 Posts

Posted - 01 Jul 2010 :  11:39:24  Show Profile Send Nicolai Withander a Private Message
I dont know any of them... who are they?
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
15675 Posts

Posted - 01 Jul 2010 :  12:01:02  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message
They balanced this out in 4e.

They removed all the female 'good guys' as well.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone

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Dennis
Great Reader

9933 Posts

Posted - 01 Jul 2010 :  12:06:20  Show Profile Send Dennis a Private Message

Lallara - Zulkir of Abjuration (appeared in The Simbul's Gift and the Haunted Lands trilogy)

Quenthel - sister of Gromph Baere (surely you know him?)

Kya - the evil sorceress in Pools of Radiance: Ruins of Myth Drannor

Sysquemalyn - a vengeful Netherese wizard in Netheril Trilogy

Elyril - a deranged Sharran priest in Twilight War

Triel - Matron of House Baenre

Kiva - an annoying villainess in Counselors and Kings

Durthans - evil Rashemi witches

Dmitra - Zulkir of Illusion (appeared in HL trilogy)

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Dennis
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9933 Posts

Posted - 01 Jul 2010 :  12:12:17  Show Profile Send Dennis a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay


They removed all the female 'good guys' as well.



At least they're keeping Alassra. Ed said we will still see more of her.

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Ruul
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USA
64 Posts

Posted - 01 Jul 2010 :  13:12:38  Show Profile  Visit Ruul's Homepage  Send Ruul an AOL message Send Ruul a Private Message
When it comes to pure deranged evil, you just can't beat Quenthel Baenre. Kiva would be my second choice.
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capnvan
Senior Scribe

USA
592 Posts

Posted - 01 Jul 2010 :  13:20:57  Show Profile  Visit capnvan's Homepage Send capnvan a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by dennis
[Larloch (though arguably, since he seems to be more neutral than evil)



Just a quibble - I think it's been fairly well established over the years that Larloch is thoroughly evil. It's just that much of what he's doing doesn't have any noticeable effect on the Realms, as perceived by PCs et al.

"Saving a life, though regrettable, is a small price to pay for a whole lifetime of unfettered killing."
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Kilvan
Senior Scribe

Canada
894 Posts

Posted - 01 Jul 2010 :  13:51:55  Show Profile Send Kilvan a Private Message
Quenthel was interesting, depending on the author, in WotSQ. I don't know most of the others, so I voted for her.

Oblivion loomed on every side, the offspring lived, basking in the realization that each moment could be the last moment.
--This was the beauty of chaos
--This was the beauty of Lolth
--This was the doom for all, but one

Quote from "Extinction"
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Asharak
Learned Scribe

France
177 Posts

Posted - 01 Jul 2010 :  14:51:33  Show Profile  Visit Asharak's Homepage Send Asharak a Private Message
Dmitra Flass, she wed Rassendyll/Selfaril High Blade of Mulmaster, looks interesting ...

"Soyez réalistes : demandez l'impossible"

Sorry for my English... it's not my native tongue.

Edited by - Asharak on 01 Jul 2010 14:53:28
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Alystra Illianniis
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USA
3747 Posts

Posted - 01 Jul 2010 :  17:05:07  Show Profile  Click to see Alystra Illianniis's MSN Messenger address Send Alystra Illianniis a Private Message
I voted for Tiel, because she ruthlessly rules the most powerful House in Menzo, and had Jeggred for a son. Congress with a glabrezu? It don't GET any more evil thatn THAT, honey!


Edit- script time message- CK seems to be having issues today....

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Edited by - Alystra Illianniis on 01 Jul 2010 17:09:53
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sfdragon
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2216 Posts

Posted - 01 Jul 2010 :  19:23:37  Show Profile Send sfdragon a Private Message
Triel is dead isn't she??

why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power


My FR fan fiction
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Dennis
Great Reader

9933 Posts

Posted - 01 Jul 2010 :  19:58:27  Show Profile Send Dennis a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by sfdragon

Triel is dead isn't she??



She lives. It was Quenthel who died (killed by Drizzt) but was resurrected.

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Dennis
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9933 Posts

Posted - 01 Jul 2010 :  20:04:22  Show Profile Send Dennis a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis

I voted for Tiel, because she ruthlessly rules the most powerful House in Menzo, and had Jeggred for a son. Congress with a glabrezu? It don't GET any more evil thatn THAT, honey!


Edit- script time message- CK seems to be having issues today....





She's hardly ready to rule Menzo. She keeps on depending on Gromph's and Quenthel's advice....and insecure of her height.


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althen artren
Senior Scribe

USA
778 Posts

Posted - 01 Jul 2010 :  20:11:53  Show Profile Send althen artren a Private Message
You're forgetting the Serpent-Queen. I wish we would see more of
her in print.
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Dennis
Great Reader

9933 Posts

Posted - 01 Jul 2010 :  20:15:46  Show Profile Send Dennis a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Ruul

When it comes to pure deranged evil, you just can't beat Quenthel Baenre. Kiva would be my second choice.



Quenthel would be my second choice. Evil to the core, and never hesitated to slay to further her position. But I still have reservations about priestesses. While they can become powerful, I don't like the idea that they are just their deities' pawns, slaves to all their whims...

So my first choice is Lallara. She's undoubtedly evil and enjoys tormenting people for the heck of it. And she's chatty and humorous. Poor Samas Kul, always a victim of her sarcasm.


Every beginning has an end.
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Dennis
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9933 Posts

Posted - 01 Jul 2010 :  20:27:26  Show Profile Send Dennis a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Asharak

Dmitra Flass, she wed Rassendyll/Selfaril High Blade of Mulmaster, looks interesting ...



I find her interesting, too. But if she were to be an archvillainess, she'll be more like Larloch (though she could most probably not attain his level in power). In HL, she preferred to work behind the scenes, and let her minions/agents carry her plans out. It was in the war prior and during the SP that she took an overt stand against Tam.




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skychrome
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713 Posts

Posted - 01 Jul 2010 :  20:42:53  Show Profile  Visit skychrome's Homepage Send skychrome a Private Message
Voted for Triel. Second would be Kiva.

"You make an intriguing offer, one that is very tempting. It would seem that I have little alternative than to answer thusly: DISINTEGRATE!" Vaarsuvius, Order of the Stick 625
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Dennis
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9933 Posts

Posted - 01 Jul 2010 :  20:57:39  Show Profile Send Dennis a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by capnvan

quote:
Originally posted by dennis
[Larloch (though arguably, since he seems to be more neutral than evil)



Just a quibble - I think it's been fairly well established over the years that Larloch is thoroughly evil. It's just that much of what he's doing doesn't have any noticeable effect on the Realms, as perceived by PCs et al.



Well, as per canon, he is "lawful evil." So my fault...It's just that I don't see his evil deeds in the Realms, and for me a "seemingly absent" evil is neutral, or almost.


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woodwwad
Learned Scribe

USA
267 Posts

Posted - 01 Jul 2010 :  21:04:03  Show Profile  Visit woodwwad's Homepage Send woodwwad a Private Message
There is Darkhope & there is that wizard who was responsible for making Alias in Azure Bonds. Those are the only 2 I can think of. I didn't know any of the names you mentioned either. I would guess it comes down to the FRs writings being largely male & not thinking they can write female characters well. I really hate reading female characters written by guys who do them poorly.

I think I run female npcs well, a lot better than more guys, & I have a lot of "bad girls" in my FR game. I think female villians aren't especially hard to write + the fact that they are female can end up having the pcs deal very differently with them which can help change things up.

Check out my reviews on youtube of Forgotten Realms and other rpg products. http://www.youtube.com/user/woodwwad?feature=mhum
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sfdragon
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2216 Posts

Posted - 01 Jul 2010 :  21:38:03  Show Profile Send sfdragon a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by dennis

quote:
Originally posted by sfdragon

Triel is dead isn't she??



She lives. It was Quenthel who died (killed by Drizzt) but was resurrected.



and big evil Q killed Triel.

why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power


My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234
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IngoDjan
Learned Scribe

Brazil
146 Posts

Posted - 01 Jul 2010 :  21:41:08  Show Profile  Visit IngoDjan's Homepage  Click to see IngoDjan's MSN Messenger address Send IngoDjan a Private Message
Sarya

Ingo Djan
DUNGEON MASTER AO OF THE DIAMONDS!
"I see the future repeat the past. It all is a museum of great news. The Time do not stop."
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Dennis
Great Reader

9933 Posts

Posted - 01 Jul 2010 :  22:00:24  Show Profile Send Dennis a Private Message

Sarya looks interesting for the fact that she's half-fiend. But I never liked elves, save a few drow. Haven't read (and never will) The Last Mythal, where, at least from what I gleaned in Wiki, she had more exposure and died.

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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
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Posted - 02 Jul 2010 :  01:23:33  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message
Shyressa, of the Twisted Rune, is another. See both Empires of the Shining Sea and Master of Chains.

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The Sage
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Posted - 02 Jul 2010 :  01:26:27  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message
Fellow scribes, I'm noticing a few tidbits from specific novels popping up in this discussion. So I'd also like to note that should any of you wish to reveal certain events from novels, please use either the SPOILER tags, or declare SPOILERS before you reveal the information.

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-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

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Dennis
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9933 Posts

Posted - 02 Jul 2010 :  02:15:16  Show Profile Send Dennis a Private Message

quote:
Originally posted by The Sage

Shyressa, of the Twisted Rune, is another. See both Empires of the Shining Sea and Master of Chains.



I read a bit about her after reading your post. Hmmm, I'm now inclined to read those books.


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Dennis
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9933 Posts

Posted - 02 Jul 2010 :  02:27:08  Show Profile Send Dennis a Private Message

Sage, I came across a tidbit...There's a female lich who's a member of the Twisted Rune named Jymahna. Is she as interesting as Shyressa? Did she appear in novels?


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