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Crust
Learned Scribe
USA
273 Posts |
 Posted - 05 Feb 2004 : 19:27:05
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This I took from Winterfox's web journal entitled "Bash Em."
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Originally posted by Winterfox
Silverfall, on the other hand, holds all the potential of a chimpanzee smashing the keyboard with its head.
This is just plain rediculous. I don't know how you can expect rational people to take your opinions seriously.
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Dove disguises herself as a dark elf and “infiltrates” Scornubel. In truth, all she does is charge in with all the grace and intelligence of a bull in heat.
This is a wild exaggeration, if not an outright falsehood.
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The plot is transferred clumsily from sister to sister. The Sisters are described as all-wise and intelligent, but their methods in Silverfall suggests otherwise. They are hundreds of years old, some of the most powerful beings on Toril, and yet they act like third-rate adventurers embarking on their first dungeon crawl.
Aside from this being incredibly off target, you don't even provide examples to back yourself up. 
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They will still act just like your average Jane or your average mentally retarded person.
Tell us, Winterfox, how exactly should an immortal behave?
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What could be the common goal to draw these diverse groups together? It is never told.
You might have figured out on your own that Halastar is powerful enough to operate the strings of all the organizations and foes involved in the novel. Further, Shar herself might have influenced all groups. Must everything be spelled out? That is one of the great things about Greenwood. He lets the experienced readers of the FR world understand what's going on without having to be told. Of course, one with a negative slant would consider that poor writing, or a lack of details done deliberately (or without knowing in the mind of the true basher).
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But I still fail to understand what the Thayans, the Zhents, and the drow have to do with it.
I'm sure the Zhents, Thayans, and drow had no idea about the parts they were playing from the beginning. Such is the mentality of a controlled lackey.
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That’s Qilue’s costume for you. One, she’s trying to shadow some slaver baddie and yet she’s dressed up in a way that’ll scream for attention. Two, this costume is laughable. Chains of whatever that bind her hair and are linked to the spurs of her boots? Please. And doesn’t she get cold? Oh, wait, it’s a Chosen of Mystra. I’ll bet the thing’s enchanted to regulate temperature. *roll eyes* Here is one of the book’s many problems: the author often devotes a long paragraph to elaborate party-wear. As opposed to things that, you know, the reader might actually care about. Like characterization. Like plot.
Characterization is exactly what Greenwood is stimulating here. The characters at the ball and how extravagantly they would all be dressed at this function shows the level of society working here: upper class. Would Qilue dressed as a clown have made more sense? Perhaps if she had dressed as a large green dragon, with Dove or the Simbul bent over as its rear-end would have done more to stimulate character and less to, as you seem to suggest, objectify women.
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The cousins turned as one to stare at the speaker – and emitted identical gasps of hungry awe. The object of their attention was a man whose fine features were adorned rather than ruined by a finely upswept mustache, its chestnut magnificence overwhelmed by the curly sweep of hair that must have reached to the man’s waist, but was bound up in a scarlet ribbon to keep it clear of the spotless green shoulders of his elegant, festive jacket. He was lean and lithe beneath the devastatingly simple lines of his garb. From the lace at his wrists to that at his throat, every curve of his form betrayed sleek strength and flaring ready muscle. As for his gray silken breeches, with their discreet codpiece – why, the tight bottom they displayed to the world as he bowed and turned to leave them made both cousins gasp again, then swallow… then turn to each other to share an incredulously delighted squeal.
I don’t run into Gary Stus a lot, but if I have to cite the description of one, this would be it. There’s the “glistening cascade of raven-dark tresses” for hair, and there’s the “burning supernovas of brilliant sapphire-blue” for eyes, but “chestnut magnificence” for mustache? It makes me think of something equine. The prose here is, simply put, purple. No, make that urple.
What's your point here? The prose above is well-written and does a wonderful job of explaining the appearance of said individual (who I would guess to be Dauntless?).
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Redeeming qualities: I’m hard-pressed here. Uhm. Well, as I said, the artwork is quite pretty to look at, if a bit vague.
The unfortunate thing is that anyone who takes your opinions to heart will never get the chance to realize for themselves that the redeeming qualities of Silverfall far outweigh its shortcomings.
I find it odd that you don't mention the connections seen between the Seven, something we haven't been introduced to previously. You don't mention the amusement of Mirt huffing and puffing through the woods, the true example of a has-been hero who still performs heroic feats. You don't mention the Heartsteel novels, which bring a wonderful level of wit to the novels (and to the world of FR). You don't mention the loads of information given concerning the Chosen, the Sword Coast, Skullport, Halastar, Elaith, the drow and their behavior outside of Menzoberanzan, Shar, Mirt, the new character Dauntless... You left out a lot in your critque, Winterfox.
Nothing personal (though I imagine someone will see that this conversation has degenerated to the level so common on the Wizards boards - that of flaming), but I can't sit idly by and let such an overwhelmingly and rediculously negative critique go unchallanged.
I respect your opinion, Winterfox, but the last thing I can do it take it seriously. To compare Silverfall to a chimp banging its head against a keyboard is...
We'll, I'll let the community here make their own decision concerning how valid that statement is.
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"That's right, hurl back views that force ye to think by name-calling - 'tis the grand old tradition, let it not down! Anything to keep from having to think, or - Mystra forfend - change thy own views!"
Narnra glowered at her father. "Just how am I to learn how to think? By being taught by you?"
"Some folk in the Realms would give their lives for the chance to learn at my feet," Elminster said mildly. "Several already have."
~from Elminster's Daughter, Ed Greenwood |
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Alaundo
Head Moderator
United Kingdom
5692 Posts |
Posted - 05 Feb 2004 : 19:46:18
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Well met
Hmmmm, lets be careful about what we quote and respond to here, Crust. Theres no point in dragging in other personal scrolls and tearing them apart.... It could be seen as purposely attempting to cause retaliation.
Futhermore, we certainly do not want this library to become anything like that from which a lot of recent arrivals have fled. I have noticed quite a change in the friendliness of Candlekeep of late
Heavy critisisms towards others views and such will have to cease, for the protection of the library.
Maybe I need to get a new Staff of the Irritated Moderator  ....perhaps a +6\+10 vs. unruly scribes should do it  |
Alaundo
Candlekeep Forums Head Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
An Introduction to Candlekeep - by Ed Greenwood
The Candlekeep Compendium - Tomes of Realmslore penned by Scribes of Candlekeep
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Edited by - Alaundo on 05 Feb 2004 19:47:01 |
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Crust
Learned Scribe
USA
273 Posts |
Posted - 05 Feb 2004 : 19:47:59
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Well said. You're right, Alaundo. I'm sorry.  |
"That's right, hurl back views that force ye to think by name-calling - 'tis the grand old tradition, let it not down! Anything to keep from having to think, or - Mystra forfend - change thy own views!"
Narnra glowered at her father. "Just how am I to learn how to think? By being taught by you?"
"Some folk in the Realms would give their lives for the chance to learn at my feet," Elminster said mildly. "Several already have."
~from Elminster's Daughter, Ed Greenwood |
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Alaundo
Head Moderator
United Kingdom
5692 Posts |
Posted - 05 Feb 2004 : 20:37:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Crust
Well said. You're right, Alaundo. I'm sorry.
Well met
Worry not, Crust, I'll not banish thee to the basements........just yet Besides, your Realmslore tasks are far from complete 
Lets all talk about the nicer points of the Realms... enough of this "worst Forgotten Realms novel"....we're in a library, all tomes are to be respected, its all Realmslore after all  |
Alaundo
Candlekeep Forums Head Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
An Introduction to Candlekeep - by Ed Greenwood
The Candlekeep Compendium - Tomes of Realmslore penned by Scribes of Candlekeep
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Winterfox
Senior Scribe
895 Posts |
Posted - 06 Feb 2004 : 04:52:29
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Yo, Crust, let's take it outside. My Livejournal community allows anonymous posters, if you're not inclined to register. Then you can come and spread your message to the misguided souls that have been led astray by my oh-so-vindictive, "ridiculous" review. Ahaha!
You might want to see someone else's review of Elminster in Hell as well: http://www.livejournal.com/community/bash_em/2483.html
Enjoy! |
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Thysl
Seeker
USA
64 Posts |
Posted - 06 Feb 2004 : 05:09:23
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Winterfox, Crust, I love you two! You both have a permanent invitation to all of my parties!
Hmmm worst read? Spellfire! Although I never finished it... As for worst realms book I did finish, Red Magic. Just didn't do it for me, I guess. Characters were a bit under-developed and the fact that the antagonist's big weapon was a swarm of Darkenbeasts seemed kinda lame. |
There are as many nights as days, and the one is just as long as the other in the year's course. Even a happy life cannot be without a measure of darkness, and the word 'happy' would lose its meaning if it were not balanced by sadness.
--Carl Jung |
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The Cardinal
Senior Scribe
Canada
647 Posts |
Posted - 06 Feb 2004 : 05:38:20
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Well as for worst FR Novel we cannot say... we like almost all novels... even ones we get so sick of we can't help but read cause it's so bad (true these novels we progress VERY SLOWLY in...)
However one that sits rather off for us is the Trial of Cyric the Mad. Not that it's the worst, just not our cup of tea. In every portrayal the gods seem to get more static, (the exception of perhaps Midnight, Kelemvor and of course Cyric by the end). Still We'd rather have the old Cyric than the new... Cyric may have been better mad, and the other gods meddle too much in the affairs of others... kinda like a certain mage and his bardic group that we are all aware of... Again just not my cup of tea...
And woe to those who force Alaundo to get a new Staff of Irritated Moderator! We haven't even been able to swipe the +5 version yet ... we mean ... we'll just be going now |
It has to be Certain, the Gods Hate Me. For whatever irrevokable Fate, I have been made the walking Joke. Either that, or Beshaba is overlyfond Of Me.
-Unknown |
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Winterfox
Senior Scribe
895 Posts |
Posted - 06 Feb 2004 : 07:40:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Thysl
Winterfox, Crust, I love you two! You both have a permanent invitation to all of my parties!
Why, thank you. *offers a cup* Coffee? |
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Crust
Learned Scribe
USA
273 Posts |
Posted - 06 Feb 2004 : 12:38:34
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That was a scathing review of El in Hell, Winterfox. I think it's one of the most titanic and epic of FR novels.
That whole love/rape thing, I see it, but it doesn't bother me in the least.
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"That's right, hurl back views that force ye to think by name-calling - 'tis the grand old tradition, let it not down! Anything to keep from having to think, or - Mystra forfend - change thy own views!"
Narnra glowered at her father. "Just how am I to learn how to think? By being taught by you?"
"Some folk in the Realms would give their lives for the chance to learn at my feet," Elminster said mildly. "Several already have."
~from Elminster's Daughter, Ed Greenwood |
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Winterfox
Senior Scribe
895 Posts |
Posted - 06 Feb 2004 : 13:22:33
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Eh, I didn't write that review. So.
I don't know about you, but using "love" as a euphemism for "rape" is rather disturbing to me. *deadpans* It might be just me, but as far as I know, rape is a sensitive subject and a rather, don't you know, traumatizing experience. Confusing -- or even just substituting -- it with "an act of/attentions of love" is... interesting, to say the very least.
EDIT: Ooo, found an interesting review at Amazon.com for Elminster in Hell. Crust, jump!
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Sadly, I've watched this author's work get worse and worse with time. This book should have been great. It's a great idea with a great story leading up to it from the work of other authors (ie Return of the Archwizards 1 and 2)....but it was horrible. Nothing but a bunch of unrelated plot snippets from myriad other books thinly strung together in a most contrived and poorly written manner.
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Edited by - Winterfox on 06 Feb 2004 13:26:56 |
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Crust
Learned Scribe
USA
273 Posts |
Posted - 06 Feb 2004 : 13:41:11
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Poorly written? Did an author write that review?  |
"That's right, hurl back views that force ye to think by name-calling - 'tis the grand old tradition, let it not down! Anything to keep from having to think, or - Mystra forfend - change thy own views!"
Narnra glowered at her father. "Just how am I to learn how to think? By being taught by you?"
"Some folk in the Realms would give their lives for the chance to learn at my feet," Elminster said mildly. "Several already have."
~from Elminster's Daughter, Ed Greenwood |
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Winterfox
Senior Scribe
895 Posts |
Posted - 06 Feb 2004 : 13:51:54
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| I have no idea. It's probably from some reader or another. |
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Crust
Learned Scribe
USA
273 Posts |
Posted - 06 Feb 2004 : 14:58:57
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See, that's my only problem. Overwhelmingly negative reviews with no references to examples found, and no attempt at a positive light whatsoever. Poorly written compared to what? One of my student's papers? If Greenwood was a poor writer, he wouldn't be publishing. Period.
Reviews like that remind me of the posters on Movie Poop-chute.com from Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back. It's pure malice and mud-slinging. |
"That's right, hurl back views that force ye to think by name-calling - 'tis the grand old tradition, let it not down! Anything to keep from having to think, or - Mystra forfend - change thy own views!"
Narnra glowered at her father. "Just how am I to learn how to think? By being taught by you?"
"Some folk in the Realms would give their lives for the chance to learn at my feet," Elminster said mildly. "Several already have."
~from Elminster's Daughter, Ed Greenwood |
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 06 Feb 2004 : 14:59:13
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Before this gets any further:
In Realmspeak, one of the senses of 'love' is 'have sex' (m-w.com's sense 7), which survives in modern English in 'make love' and South Park. This doesn't mean that Ed Greenwood, or Taern Hornblade, confuses love in the sense of affection or sexual attraction with rape. |
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Crust
Learned Scribe
USA
273 Posts |
Posted - 06 Feb 2004 : 15:46:55
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quote:
Originally posted by Faraer
Before this gets any further:
In Realmspeak, one of the senses of 'love' is 'have sex' (m-w.com's sense 7), which survives in modern English in 'make love' and South Park. This doesn't mean that Ed Greenwood, or Taern Hornblade, confuses love in the sense of affection or sexual attraction with rape.
The damage has already been done in Ed's books, Faraer. To have that explained after the fact isn't going to change anyone's mind. By judging from the malicious posts I've read, folks will assume that Ed had no knowledge of that fact, and was deliberately trying to glorify rape in some indirect way.
Of course, I don't believe that. |
"That's right, hurl back views that force ye to think by name-calling - 'tis the grand old tradition, let it not down! Anything to keep from having to think, or - Mystra forfend - change thy own views!"
Narnra glowered at her father. "Just how am I to learn how to think? By being taught by you?"
"Some folk in the Realms would give their lives for the chance to learn at my feet," Elminster said mildly. "Several already have."
~from Elminster's Daughter, Ed Greenwood |
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VEDSICA
Senior Scribe
USA
466 Posts |
Posted - 06 Feb 2004 : 15:51:58
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| Definitely Hand of fire for me was the worst.The ending was terrible.Also Mage in the Iron Mask too. |
LIFE,BIRTH,BLOOD,DOOM---THE HOLE IN THE GROUND IS COMING ROUND SOON----BLS |
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Josh Davids
Seeker
57 Posts |
Posted - 06 Feb 2004 : 20:41:18
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Ok this became an interesting thread real fast. I want to address the topic before I move too far from it.
I don’t have a worst novel but novels that I am disappointed in. in truth I can’t really say I hate any book even ones that made me fall asleep. But the forgotten realms that disappointed me the most was the baldur gate game novels. At first liked them but after reading the reviews people gave them who had played the game I was disappointed so much wasn’t used in them. I was lucky in the fact that I didn’t play the game before I read the novel so I didn’t have anything to base an opinion on till after reading the reviews of the game. Thus the disappointment.
Now onto something that was brought up about Greenwood and the criticism. Winterfox I got to ask you why do you use other people’s opinions and then afterwards go I didn’t write it? If you have an opinion state it, please don’t use someone else’s then back track as soon as someone holds you to it. Using others opinions is just poor shape, it strikes me as being hatred rather then honest criticism.
As for the rape thing, you know I got to wonder if people honestly read these books when they use examples like this, or are they just looking for a reason to attack the author. Ok from what I gathered from the previous posts Ed Greenwood himself, mind you they alluded to it, confuses rape with love making. What part of the text did it say Ed Greenwood in it. The text is using a characters own thoughts on the matter not Mr.Greenwood’s, and yes the character thinking that love making and rape are the same thing or close to it is horrible that is the reason it was put in there more then likely. The character was evil after all. In life there are people who think having sex with young kids is natural and wholesome, in life there are people who think forced sex is not rape but love making there are people that disturbed in life so why is it when an author brings them up in a book the author automatically thinks just like that character? Why is the author thought of as that character and or characters, either it be Greenwood or others. Can’t people separate their hatred enough to think clearly? And yes Winterfox this is directed at you, you made the statement that Greenwood confused rape with love making, he didn’t do that in the least.
I have done the same things when I write, one villain constantly referred to his forcing women to sleep with him as love making for in his twisted, dark and disturbed mind it was. Do I believe that as a person, heck no I don’t. and I do have personally experience with that I was sexually molested as a kid I know the pain and suffering it causes first hand. So when I see that someone says author so and so thinks love making and rape are the same thing or confuses it with one another, yes it gets my hackles raised. So let me get this straight I write about a villain who is a mass murder using religion as a reason to kill I think that is ok because the character I write does it? How about a character who is a sadist and enjoys watching people suffer through his machinations does that mean I am or that I don’t know the difference?
Man since when did the line between author and creation become so blurred?
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Winterfox
Senior Scribe
895 Posts |
Posted - 07 Feb 2004 : 04:49:38
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quote:
Now onto something that was brought up about Greenwood and the criticism. Winterfox I got to ask you why do you use other people’s opinions and then afterwards go I didn’t write it? If you have an opinion state it, please don’t use someone else’s then back track as soon as someone holds you to it. Using others opinions is just poor shape, it strikes me as being hatred rather then honest criticism.
Excuse me?
I have read Spellfire and Silverfall, and have posted links to my opinions of both books. I haven't said if I agree or disagree with others' opinions about Elminster in Hell because I haven't read it. I also stated very, very clearly that the Elminster in Hell review on my LJ community wasn't written by me.
EDIT: Sigh, blah, blah. I'll drop this before it escalates into a mini-flamewar. As I said, let's take it outside and go to my Livejournal or something. |
Edited by - Winterfox on 07 Feb 2004 08:24:05 |
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Lord Rad
Great Reader
United Kingdom
2080 Posts |
Posted - 07 Feb 2004 : 10:00:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Winterfox
EDIT: Sigh, blah, blah. I'll drop this before it escalates into a mini-flamewar. As I said, let's take it outside and go to my Livejournal or something.
Well said!
Some people who have come over from WotC boards seem to want to slate novels as a form of enjoyment! Why!? If you dislike FR novels so much then DONT READ THEM ANYMORE! Move on to some other genre or authors away from this particular setting.
::throws arms up in despair::
I think you hit the nail on the head in your first comment, Josh. I dont hate any novel, just disappointed in a small number of them. A perfect statement, thanks |
Lord Rad
"What? No, I wasn't reading your module. I was just looking at the pictures"
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Edited by - Lord Rad on 07 Feb 2004 10:01:47 |
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
Posted - 07 Feb 2004 : 17:17:49
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Winterfox, I'd take down that love/rape thing if I were you. Whether you wrote it or not, you're hosting it and so are legally responsible.
Time and again the courts have found confusing the thoughts and words of fictional characters with those of their authors to be deliberate misreading, so if Ed decided to sue, you'd be toast.
And I'll balance your Amazon review with just two lines about ELMINSTER IN HELL from The American Library Association reviewer: "This book is the first time that roleplaying fantasy novels have ever threatened to be considered serious literature. Marred by an abrupt ending, but highly recommended."
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BobSalvatore
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
5 Posts |
Posted - 07 Feb 2004 : 20:10:16
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See, that's my only problem. Overwhelmingly negative reviews with no references to examples found, and no attempt at a positive light whatsoever. Poorly written compared to what? One of my student's papers? If Greenwood was a poor writer, he wouldn't be publishing. Period.
The damage has already been done in Ed's books, Faraer. To have that explained after the fact isn't going to change anyone's mind.
The unfortunate thing is that anyone who takes your opinions to heart will never get the chance to realize for themselves that the redeeming qualities of Silverfall far outweigh its shortcomings.
My dear Crust,
By god, man, I think you've got it! Want to know why authors hate unregulated message boards?
I find your spirited defense of Ed inspiring.
Regarding Ed Greenwood: he's the most creative, generous and wonderful guy I've ever met. Helluva writer, too - and gutsy enough to fashion a style so distinctive that he knows it will turn some people off. When people ask me which is my favorite short story of any genre of all time, I point to Ray Bradbury and to Ed's "Elminster at Mage Faire," which is just such a blast.
Bob Salvatore |
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Valdar Oakensong
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
159 Posts |
Posted - 07 Feb 2004 : 20:52:20
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| Come on guys, Candlekeep is supposed to be about our love of the Realms not beating the crap out of the poeple who have made it our home from home. On the other hand if any of you have written a best selling novel feel free to slag off other people's work. |
Guns don't kill people, magic missiles do. |
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Winterfox
Senior Scribe
895 Posts |
Posted - 08 Feb 2004 : 08:32:30
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quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
Winterfox, I'd take down that love/rape thing if I were you. Whether you wrote it or not, you're hosting it and so are legally responsible.
Time and again the courts have found confusing the thoughts and words of fictional characters with those of their authors to be deliberate misreading, so if Ed decided to sue, you'd be toast.
*rolls eyes* Puh-leeeze.
Oh, and it's Livejournal.com you should send your complaint to. I maintain my LJ community with an intention that it's unmoderated -- that's the whole point of it, not providing a home for fanpoodles. Until a LJ admin steps in and gives me a warning, that entry stays.
And Crust? I dare you: write an entirely positive review for Return of the Archwizards trilogy. 1,500 words minimum! =p |
Edited by - Winterfox on 08 Feb 2004 08:34:38 |
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Alaundo
Head Moderator
United Kingdom
5692 Posts |
Posted - 08 Feb 2004 : 10:30:38
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quote:
Originally posted by Valdar Oakensong
Come on guys, Candlekeep is supposed to be about our love of the Realms not beating the crap out of the poeple who have made it our home from home. On the other hand if any of you have written a best selling novel feel free to slag off other people's work.
Well met
Very well said, Valdar Oakensong....the first part anyway
Indeed, we are here to share our love of the Realms and pay our respects to the people who write of our "home from home" and build it into a bigger and better place.
I urge you to count to ten, Winterfox, before writing your views here I understand you can't give praise to all works of the Realms, but please try to be a little more..... pleasant and respectful in your writing. |
Alaundo
Candlekeep Forums Head Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
An Introduction to Candlekeep - by Ed Greenwood
The Candlekeep Compendium - Tomes of Realmslore penned by Scribes of Candlekeep
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Crust
Learned Scribe
USA
273 Posts |
Posted - 08 Feb 2004 : 14:55:08
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quote:
Originally posted by Winterfox
And Crust? I dare you: write an entirely positive review for Return of the Archwizards trilogy. 1,500 words minimum! =p
It's not about being 100% positive. I'm never totally, entirely positive with my "reviews." I am, however, not entirely negative. Further, I'm not entirely negative to the point of scathing, malice-driven comments that openly disrespect the authors who have now made their voices known concerning this dismal topic. |
"That's right, hurl back views that force ye to think by name-calling - 'tis the grand old tradition, let it not down! Anything to keep from having to think, or - Mystra forfend - change thy own views!"
Narnra glowered at her father. "Just how am I to learn how to think? By being taught by you?"
"Some folk in the Realms would give their lives for the chance to learn at my feet," Elminster said mildly. "Several already have."
~from Elminster's Daughter, Ed Greenwood |
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Danilo Thann
Acolyte
Canada
8 Posts |
Posted - 08 Feb 2004 : 16:21:52
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quote:
Originally posted by Crust
It just blows my mind that Spellfire and Silverfall would fall into this list. Was anyone paying attention while reading? I can't help but imagine that folks who see those books as being so horrible only see them that way because they began reading them with already negative expectations, and that virus wormed its way into every passage. Not because it was there to begin with, but because the reader let it in.
I mean, how can someone consider Spellfire and Silverfall to be so horrible when novels exist like Once Around the Realms or the Baldur's Gate books? Surely there are worse novels than Spellfire and Silverfall.
To each his own, but if someone can be so negative about Spellfire and Silverfall, you're really missing something, either in the books or in the huge collection of FR literature.
Personally I find your judgement of my reading tastes to be really upsetting. I'M MISSING SOMETHING?? I've read a huge compliment of FR novels, by all kinds of diferent authors, not too mention that I read anywhere between 3-4 books a week. I think I'm really the only one qualified to know what I like, and I didn't like Spellfire. You did, great for you, but I'll tell you what's missing something....Spellfire, and it's missing a plot worth my time....
By the way, I didn't read the Baldurs Gate books, so I can't comment. But are you implying that someone must have read EVERY FR book before they are entitled to an opinion?? |
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2449 Posts |
Posted - 08 Feb 2004 : 16:54:01
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While I'm not exactly eager to jump into this little war, I did want Crust to know that he's not alone, at least in his defense of authors against those who seem to have a special hatred against them.
Honesty, I don't understand some people. If you don't like EG's, or RAS's (who's the only other author I can think of who gets near this level of flak from supposed fans), or anyone else's writing, then don't read the books. If you don't like it, why do you keep coming back? Find someone you do like to read (FR or not) and read that. This isn't English class, none of these books are assigned.
And, upon further thought, I'd like to rephrase what I said earlier in the topic. I don't hate any FR book. There are books that I dislike, that I haven't reread (which are the ones I noted), but I don't hate them. There's only one book that I've actively, passionately hated (The Bell Jar, and yes, that one WAS assigned for English class). The FR books are written by actual authors with talent, not even the one's I consider duds come close to that disaster.
Also, a quick reply to Danilo. Since I feel somewhat like what I think Crust may feel, I think I understand what he meant. Spellfire is one of my favorite FR books. I could go on and on about what I think is great about it. You say you can't see what I do about it, that you don't understand, or the writing style doesn't work for you (or whatever, I am making no aspirations about why you don't like the book). Since I love Spellfire so fervently, I feel sad that you don't see all that's great about it, and I'm tempted to try and convince you. Unfortunately, such convincing in a message board often doesn't work very well. What I would love instead is to sit with you in some comfortable place and debate/discuss the book, without a time delay between responses, and the ability to easily correct things that come out of my mouth badly. |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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Winterfox
Senior Scribe
895 Posts |
Posted - 09 Feb 2004 : 04:05:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Danilo Thann
Personally I find your judgement of my reading tastes to be really upsetting. I'M MISSING SOMETHING?? I've read a huge compliment of FR novels, by all kinds of diferent authors, not too mention that I read anywhere between 3-4 books a week. I think I'm really the only one qualified to know what I like, and I didn't like Spellfire. You did, great for you, but I'll tell you what's missing something....Spellfire, and it's missing a plot worth my time....
A-freaking-men. People like the Hooded One say that I'm missing "literary subtleties" of Spellfire, and shouldn't review anything, or when dear Crust here suggests that anyone who thinks Spellfire and Silverfall are horrible must not be paying attention to the books much or have pre-conceived biases. Please. This is just plain insulting. Does it not occur to you that Ed Greenwood's books won't appeal to everyone? Is it beyond comprehension that well-read, literate people can dislike Mr. Greenwood's writing?
And the accusations leveled against me of hating authors? I'm sorry; I know neither RAS nor EG personally; EG I have never even "met" online. How am I supposed to hate, you know, complete strangers?
I don't think I'm the only one who should "count to ten" before posting here. |
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2449 Posts |
Posted - 09 Feb 2004 : 05:44:59
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Cutting that line a little fine, aren't you? Considering the amount of vitriol I've seen you launch at the books, the styles, and the writers behind them, you could have fooled me that you didn't have a vendetta.
This is not a case of "if you don't have something positive to say, don't say anything." I just can't remember the last time I saw some posters (especially over at the old Novels forum) say *anything* positive. And that gets rather tiresome. Some of us read these books to enjoy them, ya know? |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 09 Feb 2004 : 05:57:23
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Well, first, I should say that I don't really like Spellfire myself. At first, I thought it was because Ed Greenwood wasn't as good with prose as others. Then I found out that not only was he pretty good, he was also under a restriction in writing that book: it was supposed to be an introduction, which is why it's so fast paced and the plotlines are thin. He had to shove in as many big names as he could.
So, personally, I think it's not so good as a novel, but pretty good as an introduction. |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
Download the brickfilm masterpiece by Leftfield Studios! See this page for more. |
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Worst Forgotten Realms novel you have read...
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