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Marquant Volker
Learned Scribe
Greece
273 Posts |
 Posted - 17 May 2010 : 22:49:54
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I was wondering where can i find information for the above organization. There are some basics in Elves of Evermeet, but its not enough.
Im not into numbers or stats for warships, but im interested in lore and background.
All the above will be used in order to flesh out one new PC in my campaign, a (high level) Priest of Correlon who has an Evermeet navy background and happens to be a Gold Elf
What are those sailors look like? their ranks and their equipment? Where are they trained? Any info is welcome (even if its non-cannon but worked for your campaigns)
Thanks in advance
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Edited by - Marquant Volker on 17 May 2010 23:22:04
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Joran Nobleheart
Senior Scribe
USA
495 Posts |
Posted - 17 May 2010 : 23:14:14
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This is a great question. Something I always wondered about was how long have the elves had frigates in use? I always loved tall ships, and hearing that the elves had one of these majestic beauties, well... I fell in love with the Realms elves all over again.  |
Paladinic Ethos
Saint Joran Nobleheart |
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Marquant Volker
Learned Scribe
Greece
273 Posts |
Posted - 17 May 2010 : 23:20:30
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My suggestion is that when it comes to navy the Elves wrote the book. The make the retreat possible navy and ships had a vital role, and later the armada was vital for the defence of the island. That explains (in my opinion) why the Elven navy is so advanced and sophisticated.
Possible Spoiler?
Some info:From the novel Evermeet:Island of Elves the armada has a secret weapon, 12 flying ships called the Starwing
EDIT: I am asking about pre-spellplague Realms |
Edited by - Marquant Volker on 17 May 2010 23:21:29 |
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2449 Posts |
Posted - 18 May 2010 : 00:17:05
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Starwings are spelljammers from the Spelljammer campaign setting. They were bought from the Elven Imperial Fleet. If you're interested, you can probably find the Spelljammer set somewhere (either on PDF somewhere on the internet, or the box itself in the really-old-section of a FLGS).
I've never seen much in the way of lore about Evermeet's fleet, but I've always done what both of you are suggesting in making them on the bleeding edge of naval science. Well, a bit beyond that, actually. If the rest of the Realms is working with ships from the 1400-1500's, the elves would be working with the much more weatherly ships from the 1800's, minus the canon of course.
An interesting take on this is the d20 book Ships of the Elves by Mongoose. They gave the elves clippers, for instance. You could also say that elves are the first to figure out how to clad the bottoms of their hulls in metal to avoid fouling.
You can go too far in this direction, of course, and you also run into the problem of why everyone else isn't trying to copy the design as well, but at least a couple of "trade secrets" like the hull sheathing could do an awful lot to give the elves a significant advantage over other ships. |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 18 May 2010 : 01:54:31
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Evermeet does have a number of Men-O-War of its own. I've not seen any particular reference to them actually leaving the atmosphere, it may be that they're kept close to home, in order to act as additional line of defense. It's possible that they may not even have proper spelljamming helms -- at least, not ones capable of interstellar travel.
The Starwings are not used to "escape from Toril, but to use as a reserve of flying vessels capable of attacking enemies from above." |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4685 Posts |
Posted - 18 May 2010 : 03:30:17
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| From what I have gleamed the Starwings had to be added as per TSR policy that all worlds be connected (that is spelljamer as well as darksun and so on). It appears that Ed complied with directive by placing items required as remote as possible. That such things exist, just the average FR adventurer would never encounter. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Joran Nobleheart
Senior Scribe
USA
495 Posts |
Posted - 18 May 2010 : 03:35:45
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Does that mean that there's Knights of Solamnia walking around the Realms, too? How's Dragonlance connected to the Realms? And... why would you go back to Ansalon after seeing Toril?   |
Paladinic Ethos
Saint Joran Nobleheart |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4685 Posts |
Posted - 18 May 2010 : 03:45:31
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quote:
Originally posted by Joran Nobleheart
Does that mean that there's Knights of Solamnia walking around the Realms, too? How's Dragonlance connected to the Realms? And... why would you go back to Ansalon after seeing Toril?
Well I did not get all of 2nd so can not be sure. I do however suspect they (at least a few) did portal to FR. Not sure of survival rate and might have occurred before before or after Dragonlance killed their deities. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 18 May 2010 : 04:00:34
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quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
quote:
Originally posted by Joran Nobleheart
Does that mean that there's Knights of Solamnia walking around the Realms, too? How's Dragonlance connected to the Realms? And... why would you go back to Ansalon after seeing Toril?
Well I did not get all of 2nd so can not be sure. I do however suspect they (at least a few) did portal to FR. Not sure of survival rate and might have occurred before before or after Dragonlance killed their deities.
The only Dragginglance character that I know of that made it to the Realms was a kender, Emilo Haversack -- and we never actually saw him in the Realms, we just knew he was headed there.
It'd not surprise me if a few other kender managed to find their way to the Realms, though. Ditto for tinker gnomes.
I've also been fiddling with a concept NPC... He's basically going to be something between a dragonspawn and a draconian, but with a purely Realms background (and he won't blow up if he gets killed, either). |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 18 May 2010 : 04:28:53
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
It'd not surprise me if a few other kender managed to find their way to the Realms, though. Ditto for tinker gnomes.
The tinker gnomes did during the events of the Into the Void novel for the SPELLJAMMER line. Though I don't think it was ever clearly defined what happened to the remaining Tinker Gnomes that were part of the "Probe's" crew. Some died, but a few may have been unaccounted for. So it's a possibility that at least some were left in Rauthaven. Perhaps they discovered a lost shrine to Gond somewhere in the city, or maybe a temple once dedicated to a Nimbral-derivative Wonderbringer interpretation based on the gnomish concept of Gond as Nebelun. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 18 May 2010 : 04:32:23
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quote:
Originally posted by Joran Nobleheart
Does that mean that there's Knights of Solamnia walking around the Realms, too? How's Dragonlance connected to the Realms? And... why would you go back to Ansalon after seeing Toril?
Though not entirely FR canon, there is a side-quest in Baldur's Gate II: The Shadows of Amn which involves the party helping a stranded group of Solamnic Knights return to Krynn. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2449 Posts |
Posted - 18 May 2010 : 04:33:52
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| From the same book that introduced Emilo we also have Jas, the woman whose parents were from the Realms, but hopped a spelljammer to Krynn in time to have her, then returned to the Realms, whereupon she then left to go into wildspace when she became an adult. So there's obviously a fair amount of traffic back and forth. No mention of Knights of Solamnia, though. Unless you want to bring Baldur's Gate II's planar sphere into things, but really, who does? |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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Genis
Learned Scribe
USA
226 Posts |
Posted - 18 May 2010 : 05:55:35
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| So wait, there is actually some stuff about travel between Krynn and Toril? Well frick, I love me a good ol' ...what do they call that when comic book characters end up in the same issue? |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 18 May 2010 : 06:08:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Genis
So wait, there is actually some stuff about travel between Krynn and Toril?
Not a whole lot, officially, but yes. Plus, the old TSR settings like SPELLJAMMER and PLANESCAPE make travel between the two worlds even more exciting, depending on how you'd like to run your campaigns.
quote:
Well frick, I love me a good ol' ...what do they call that when comic book characters end up in the same issue?
That'd be a crossover. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 18 May 2010 06:10:41 |
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Jakk
Great Reader
Canada
2165 Posts |
Posted - 18 May 2010 : 06:21:11
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| Crossovers are what I loved about Spelljammer and the 2E cosmology in general. I'm still pondering exactly how I want my Spellplague to unfold... but at the moment I'm too heavily involved in "Project Isle" to deal with my Spellplague reinvention. |
Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.
If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic. |
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Joran Nobleheart
Senior Scribe
USA
495 Posts |
Posted - 18 May 2010 : 06:26:33
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Joran Nobleheart
Does that mean that there's Knights of Solamnia walking around the Realms, too? How's Dragonlance connected to the Realms? And... why would you go back to Ansalon after seeing Toril?
Though not entirely FR canon, there is a side-quest in Baldur's Gate II: The Shadows of Amn which involves the party helping a stranded group of Solamnic Knights return to Krynn.
Oh, believe me, I remember that very well. I took great pleasure in quick-saving and killing the evil halflings, then doing it all over again. 
As for the knights, I always kind of enjoyed that. I have a PC that's a Knight of the Sword during the War of the Lance, and always kind of wished there had been a game out along the lines of the Baldur's Gate or Icewind Dale series that covered Krynn. Oh, I remember playing the old NES game of Dragonlance when I was a kid and getting nowhere fast. Fun times! |
Paladinic Ethos
Saint Joran Nobleheart |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 18 May 2010 : 07:05:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Joran Nobleheart
As for the knights, I always kind of enjoyed that. I have a PC that's a Knight of the Sword during the War of the Lance, and always kind of wished there had been a game out along the lines of the Baldur's Gate or Icewind Dale series that covered Krynn. Oh, I remember playing the old NES game of Dragonlance when I was a kid and getting nowhere fast. Fun times!
There's some mods for the first NWN game that attempted to translate the old SSI-series of DRAGONLANCE games. I specifically recall early versions of both Death Knights of Krynn and Dark Queen of Krynn being worked on by fans. Not sure whether they were ever finished though. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 18 May 2010 07:08:26 |
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Joran Nobleheart
Senior Scribe
USA
495 Posts |
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BlackAce
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
358 Posts |
Posted - 18 May 2010 : 10:27:58
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quote:
Originally posted by Marquant Volker
I was wondering where can i find information for the above organization. There are some basics in Elves of Evermeet, but its not enough.
Im not into numbers or stats for warships, but im interested in lore and background.
All the above will be used in order to flesh out one new PC in my campaign, a (high level) Priest of Correlon who has an Evermeet navy background and happens to be a Gold Elf
What are those sailors look like? their ranks and their equipment? Where are they trained? Any info is welcome (even if its non-cannon but worked for your campaigns)
Thanks in advance
Marquant, there's only really the little you yourself have mentioned from Evermeet. But it's not unreasonable to assume a fairly large and competent navy. Ed's given us quite a lot of detail on the Cormyrian navy in the past and that might prove an informative template.
For my own part, I've given the Evermetians Schooners and Cutters, fast, handy vessels, while most of the Sword Coast makes do with fast Luggers(Nelanther, Luskan, Ruathym), lateen rigged Xebecs (Calimshan, Tethyr, Amn, Chult), Fluyts (Waterdeep, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter). I keep both late medieval vessels (Carracks and Carravels) and post 18th century vessels (Ships, Barques and Clippers) out of the Realms. Neither group quite 'fits'. |
Edited by - BlackAce on 18 May 2010 10:30:39 |
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Jakk
Great Reader
Canada
2165 Posts |
Posted - 18 May 2010 : 19:58:41
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quote:
Originally posted by BlackAce
For my own part, I've given the Evermetians Schooners and Cutters, fast, handy vessels, while most of the Sword Coast makes do with fast Luggers(Nelanther, Luskan, Ruathym), lateen rigged Xebecs (Calimshan, Tethyr, Amn, Chult), Fluyts (Waterdeep, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter). I keep both late medieval vessels (Carracks and Carravels) and post 18th century vessels (Ships, Barques and Clippers) out of the Realms. Neither group quite 'fits'.
Interesting... I agree with you on the later group, but I have no problem placing late medieval vessels in my Realms; it probably has to do with having played in a "Pirates of the Fallen Stars" campaign in the early days of 2nd edition... for myself, if it's seen as an essential piece of equipment for "Pirates of the Caribbean" style campaigning, and it doesn't involve gunpowder or substitutes therefor, it's greenlit for my Realms. I love the idea of cannons in naval battles, but I have to come up with a means of restricting such weapons to that purpose... perhaps Realmsian smoke powder does not provide projectiles with enough force to penetrate anything stronger than hardwood? There's a thought... |
Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.
If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic. |
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BlackAce
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
358 Posts |
Posted - 18 May 2010 : 21:31:03
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I suppose Carracks and Carravels are what one thinks of most in your typical fantasy setting. My main objection to using them is that they are bit 'old fashioned' for the level of industrial developement seen in much of the realms.
I guess it's because everything of Ed's I've ever read has given me more of a 17th century vibe than a 14th century one... Well, as far as such parralels can be drawn. If we were gaming in <1150DR, then yes, I'd say that they would be what you see most commonly. After then, they'd still be around but increasingly rare.
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Genis
Learned Scribe
USA
226 Posts |
Posted - 18 May 2010 : 21:32:12
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| Crossover! That's the one! Thanks bro. |
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
Posted - 18 May 2010 : 21:54:27
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Jakk, there's an old Ed DRAGON article on bombards aimed (sorry!) directly at your concerns.
BlackAce, nuh-uh. Lots of carracks and caravels around, because as in the real world, with lousy communications back then by today's standards, technology doesn't advance uniformly across the setting. And because caravels are a strong, useful ship design. Remember, canoes still get used a lot to this day...
love,
THO |
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Jakk
Great Reader
Canada
2165 Posts |
Posted - 19 May 2010 : 05:46:05
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Thanks, THO! I have the DRAGON CD archive and a PDF copy of DragonDex, so I'll look that one up.  |
Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.
If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic. |
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Marquant Volker
Learned Scribe
Greece
273 Posts |
Posted - 19 May 2010 : 11:40:16
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When i saw 22 replies (in two days) i blinked for some reason! Love live Candlekeep!
Ahem... thank you Ladies and Gentlemen for the feedback!
Since there is no much cannon lore about the Evermeet navy i will create my homebrew, if its good i will post it here (under a non-cannon alert)
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2449 Posts |
Posted - 19 May 2010 : 13:23:18
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| You might also want to wander over to Ed's scroll and ask if he can share anything. You'll need to put a date on it, though, since Evermeet's navy has been all-but-destroyed on a couple of occasions. (the most recent being the 1371 invasion) |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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BlackAce
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
358 Posts |
Posted - 19 May 2010 : 14:50:28
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quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
Jakk, there's an old Ed DRAGON article on bombards aimed (sorry!) directly at your concerns.
BlackAce, nuh-uh. Lots of carracks and caravels around, because as in the real world, with lousy communications back then by today's standards, technology doesn't advance uniformly across the setting. And because caravels are a strong, useful ship design. Remember, canoes still get used a lot to this day...
love,
THO
Really? I take your point about technology not advancing evenly But still the Carpenter/Shipwright in me has a hard time reconciling that shipyards would continue to invest the massive ammount of time and timber to produce a rather poor handling and badly balasted ship like the Carrack when there are much much more advanced craft already present in the Realms (not Ed's doing I know.)
I guess it could be partly due to the presence of big Schooners like the Seasprite. I could accept Schooners as being highly advanced and rare compared to Fluyts, but against Carracks, I just find that taxes my suspension of disbelief.
(To put it in laymans terms, why would you buy a pack mule when you can get a racehorse for the same money?) |
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Marquant Volker
Learned Scribe
Greece
273 Posts |
Posted - 20 May 2010 : 09:46:46
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I just asked mr.Greenwood on his scroll, hope our Lady Herald will bring us good lore!
Until this time comes, please consider this topic open for conversasion, suggestions etc. |
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Evermeet Navy
