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Jakk
Great Reader
Canada
2165 Posts |
 Posted - 12 May 2010 : 19:52:32
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Branched from General FR Chat/HUGE Map of Zakhara
quote:
Originally posted by Cleric Generic
Indeed, MarkusTay is a master and has inspired many an act of sweet, sweet map making in others. Also, took a look at Sorol... Did you do ALL that?!
quote:
Originally posted by HandsomeRob
Cleric: yes, I'm responsible for pretty much everything over at the Sorol site (except the art - most of which I've found floating around on the internet).
-Rob
I'm starting this scroll after having a look at Sorol (see the link in HandsomeRob's sig, or ->here<-) ... all I can say is...  wow.
This. Is. Amazing. 
I finally checked out the link in Rob's sig mostly to avoid pestering him about the upcoming Faerun map sections... now I want to know what the timeline is on the conpleted geography of Sorol. Anyway, there's enough here to keep me busy for a while at least.
I now have even greater plans for my Realms... I plan to use Sorol as my Abeir, as envisioned by Lirdolin in this scroll, similar to John Norman's Gor/Counter-Earth. There never was any world-transposition in my vision of the Spellplague anyway, so this works perfectly for my purposes. Lirdolin, if you're still around, check this out! I'm using Laerakond in my Toril, as a land that had remained cloaked by magic (maintained by Ao during the ToT) until the chaos of the Spellplague.
My fellow scribes, do yourselves a favour and check this out. Even if you don't have a use for it immediately, you'll probably start looking for one. Seriously. 
Rob: Is there any information on Sorol's overall technology level? I haven't gone through the entire site yet, just a bunch of the maps and the history overview.
I have to say it again: Wow. 
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Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.
If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic. |
Edited by - Jakk on 12 May 2010 19:55:14
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3286 Posts |
Posted - 12 May 2010 : 22:46:14
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I checked it out. Looks really neat. |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
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HandsomeRob
Seeker
68 Posts |
Posted - 13 May 2010 : 14:25:09
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quote:
Originally posted by Jakk
This. Is. Amazing.
Hey, thanks! I'm glad you like it.
quote:
I finally checked out the link in Rob's sig mostly to avoid pestering him about the upcoming Faerun map sections... now I want to know what the timeline is on the completed geography of Sorol.
Heh. Well, I have a few more maps in production, but I haven't been working on them much lately. I've put Sorol on hold for a while while I've been working on the Toril and (sneak preview here) Athas maps, but I'll come back to it eventually. I've been working on Sorol for about 10 years now and you can see what's done, if that helps at all.
quote:
I now have even greater plans for my Realms... I plan to use Sorol as my Abeir.
Rob feels pressure!
quote:
Rob: Is there any information on Sorol's overall technology level? I haven't gone through the entire site yet, just a bunch of the maps and the history overview.
It depends on where you are, really. What kind of tech level are you looking for?
Kondonga and Pantung are stone age
Astlania and Zazima are copper age
Kanwata is early iron age
Nizhneria, Zarakhan, and Jalaun are medieval
Faridar and Azhnar are victorian
Gantau and Asmiria are early industrial revolution
Radet Suteru is "modern" (a magical analogue anyway)
Hadra is full of ancient technological artifacts
It kinda also depends on when: For the last 6000 years or so technology has progressed from stone-age (following a civilization-ending meteor impact) through to early industrial revolution level, but prior to that there were very advanced technologies to be found on Sorol. It was colonized by two separate races of spacefaring aliens in its past, after all. The Alvar of Radet Suteru have developed spaceflight in Sorol's current era as well, but they are so xenophobic and well-defended that none of their advanced technology seems to spread to anyone else.
Thanks for the interest and thanks for spreading the word!
-Rob
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Visit Sorol today: http://sorol.wikispaces.com |
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Jakk
Great Reader
Canada
2165 Posts |
Posted - 13 May 2010 : 22:56:18
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A few preliminary thoughts regarding using Sorol as Abeir (see above for how this is being done; there is no Abeir-Toril conjunction in this Realms version, and the Spellplague either does not happen or has other causes, up to the individual DM):
Races of Sorol
Here I'll provide an overview of the races of Sorol described by Rob in the page linked to in the title, as well as suggest some possible tweaks to fit them into the D&D universe (whatever that is). In some entries I've asked Rob for more information, which may or may not be present elsewhere in the Sorol site; I'm far from exploring the whole thing at this point.
For the most part, I'm not statting anything here. If I propose an existing D&D race for stats, this does not imply a change of Rob's original descriptions to resemble said D&D race; this is solely for statistical purposes. In all cases, assume Rob's name for the race to be retained.
Primary Inhabitants
Alvar
I like the exotic skin colours, but for purposes of integrating Sorol into the D&D universe, the Alvar are basically just tall elves (with grayish skin, if you prefer); I like tall elves, as found in Tolkien and certain FRPGs such as Tunnels & Trolls (the game I cut my FRP teeth on).
Honga
Gorilla-men... these guys are very cool as is. Not changing anything.
Humans
Well... they're humans. Any further commentary by me will be perceived (correctly) as honest, objective, and misanthropic.
Hymari
The Hymari are basically lizardfolk, but taller and thinner; perhaps closer to the Khaasta from (I believe) the Shining South 3.5 FR book.
Myaurr
The Myaurr are basically catfolk from Races of the Wild, likely somewhat stronger, given that they are somewhat tigerlike.
Myril
Hairless aquatic gorillas; what's not to like? As Rob mentions in his site, there are several varieties; one I would make closer to human standard, basically merfolk with legs instead of a fish tail; there is nothing in the original description suggesting that the Myril have anything other than standard physiology apart from the hairlessness.
Nargs
Nargs are (at least statistically and vaguely physically) orcs of generally neutral alignment with reddish-greyish skin. At least, calling them an orc variant gives me a starting point for base stats when I get there...
Paucuat
Dwarf-sized gluttonous amphibians... these are very interesting as well, and different enough that the only D&D creature I can think of to provide as an initial baseline is the bullywug. Behaviourally, the species is far more like elves, but that's part of what makes them so interesting. Favoured Class: Bard.
Vroffha
I have created a dogfolk race developed from the catfolk in Races of the Wild (see Myaurr above); I suspect that this will work rather well here.
Zaku
Depending on how short they are, they could be seen as a thin variety of dwarf, or a subterranean variety of halfling.
Zluda
Boar-people... I like these too. As far as statting them, probably basically equal to the hybrid form of a wereboar minus the supernatural abilities.
Minority Populations
The remaining sentient species on Sorol have much lower populations.
Cugai
Desert-friendly reptilian humanoids... similar to the laerti, possibly?
Giants
Rob, if you're reading this... which D&D giant race do Sorol's giants most resemble?
Kliaz
Magical lizardfolk... sounds like saurials to me.
Snoaks
Humanoid rodents... visually, I think something like the hybrid form of a wererat, minus the supernatural abilities.
Thr'kkit
Definitely thri-kreen, as expanded upon (subspecies, etc.) in the 2E Dark Sun supplement Thri-Kreen of Athas.
Troglodynes
Troglodytes minus the stench ability, Rob? Or would these ones smell bad too?
Turog
These guys are very cool. They'll definitely need to be statted out in full as is.
Tyvalri
Rob: Are they more like aarakocra or more like kenku? Or something else altogether?
Ungatan
Big gorilla-men; again, not changing anything.
Next step: statting the races. I have the next six days off work, so I should have some time to do this... when I'm not looking for another job. |
Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.
If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic. |
Edited by - Jakk on 13 May 2010 22:59:45 |
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HandsomeRob
Seeker
68 Posts |
Posted - 14 May 2010 : 16:37:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Jakk
A few preliminary thoughts regarding using Sorol as Abeir (see above for how this is being done; there is no Abeir-Toril conjunction in this Realms version, and the Spellplague either does not happen or has other causes, up to the individual DM):
You're going to make me do a lot of work, aren't you. I'll state up front that my knowledge of D&D races is very limited, so take with a shaker of salt.
quote:
Alvar
I like the exotic skin colours, but for purposes of integrating Sorol into the D&D universe, the Alvar are basically just tall elves (with grayish skin, if you prefer); I like tall elves, as found in Tolkien and certain FRPGs such as Tunnels & Trolls (the game I cut my FRP teeth on).
Tall elves sounds good for the Alvar. Basically, they're xenophobic pricks.
quote:
Hymari
The Hymari are basically lizardfolk, but taller and thinner; perhaps closer to the Khaasta from (I believe) the Shining South 3.5 FR book.
They do look like those guys a bit, but again, they are rather slight in build. There's a picture of one in the Hymari article: http://sorol.wikispaces.com/Hymari
quote:
Myaurr
The Myaurr are basically catfolk from Races of the Wild, likely somewhat stronger, given that they are somewhat tigerlike.
Most of them are quite tigerlike, but there are also Myaurr that closer resemble jaguars, panthers, cheetahs, and leopards.
quote:
Myril
Hairless aquatic gorillas; what's not to like? As Rob mentions in his site, there are several varieties; one I would make closer to human standard, basically merfolk with legs instead of a fish tail; there is nothing in the original description suggesting that the Myril have anything other than standard physiology apart from the hairlessness.
You're right, they're not mermen. But they do have gills, which help out a bit when you live underwater.
quote:
Nargs
Nargs are (at least statistically and vaguely physically) orcs of generally neutral alignment with reddish-greyish skin. At least, calling them an orc variant gives me a starting point for base stats when I get there...
That will work well, I think. I just wrote up a longer article about the Nargs: http://sorol.wikispaces.com/Nargs
I'll have you know they are my favorite race, so treat them kindly!
quote:
Paucuat
Dwarf-sized gluttonous amphibians... these are very interesting as well, and different enough that the only D&D creature I can think of to provide as an initial baseline is the bullywug. Behaviourally, the species is far more like elves, but that's part of what makes them so interesting. Favoured Class: Bard.
They look a lot like Bullywugs. That will work well.
quote:
Zaku
Depending on how short they are, they could be seen as a thin variety of dwarf, or a subterranean variety of halfling.
These guys are my view of a 'realistic' Tolkien Dwarf. If a race lived underground all the time, I think it would become very pale, very thin, have huge eyes, and be hairless and kind of slimy. They look kind of like the greys, if you know what I mean by that. Otherwise they are Dwarfish - they are stubborn and they like to mine.
quote:
Cugai
Desert-friendly reptilian humanoids... similar to the laerti, possibly?
No idea what the Laerti are... where can I find them?
quote:
Giants
Rob, if you're reading this... which D&D giant race do Sorol's giants most resemble?
The Giants were Sorol's original race, and there were many, many different varieties. Today they live in isolated mountain communities, often cut off from the rest of the world. I don't know much about D&D giants, but I would assume that any type of very large human-type creature could be fit in as a Sorol Giant. It's very important to note that they completely lack any kind of magical power - that's what caused their population to dwindle.
quote:
Snoaks
Humanoid rodents... visually, I think something like the hybrid form of a wererat, minus the supernatural abilities.
Yes, very much so. Have you ever played the board game Small World? These guys are the Ratmen. No special powers whatsoever but an alarmingly high birthrate. In a few hundred years they may be the dominant power in northern Sorol.
quote:
Troglodynes
Troglodytes minus the stench ability, Rob? Or would these ones smell bad too?
Small guys, somewhat similar to the Snoaks in appearance.
quote:
Tyvalri
Rob: Are they more like aarakocra or more like kenku? Or something else altogether?
Looking at pictures online, they look very much like Kenku.
quote:
Next step: statting the races. I have the next six days off work, so I should have some time to do this... when I'm not looking for another job.
Wow, have fun! I'll try to write some more about the races soon to help you out. Feel free to PM me with specific questions about them as well. Good luck!
-Rob |
Visit Sorol today: http://sorol.wikispaces.com |
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Jakk
Great Reader
Canada
2165 Posts |
Posted - 14 May 2010 : 19:51:25
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Good luck of a different sort... but more work is good. I'm now working today (Friday), Sunday, and Monday; my wallet is thankful, but my creative plans will have to get scaled back somewhat...  Off to work shortly... I'll keep you posted on how things are going, and I'll definitely be in touch if I have any more questions. Thanks! |
Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.
If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic. |
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Cleric Generic
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
565 Posts |
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Jakk
Great Reader
Canada
2165 Posts |
Posted - 15 May 2010 : 22:21:25
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Sorry I took so long responding to some of these points; losing this six-day weekend has been rather frustrating... anyway, answers to a couple of queries posed earlier:
quote:
Originally posted by HandsomeRob
quote:
Cugai
Desert-friendly reptilian humanoids... similar to the laerti, possibly?
No idea what the Laerti are... where can I find them?
Link here; they're also know as asabi; I remember them as laerti from their introduction in the 2nd Edition material on Anauroch.
quote:
Originally posted by HandsomeRob
quote:
Giants
Rob, if you're reading this... which D&D giant race do Sorol's giants most resemble?
The Giants were Sorol's original race, and there were many, many different varieties. Today they live in isolated mountain communities, often cut off from the rest of the world. I don't know much about D&D giants, but I would assume that any type of very large human-type creature could be fit in as a Sorol Giant. It's very important to note that they completely lack any kind of magical power - that's what caused their population to dwindle.
So... no giant spellcasters of any kind? Both arcane and divine? Interesting... IIRC, somewhat similar to Athasian half-giants, but it's been a while since I looked at Dark Sun... but if there were a large variety of giant types, basically all standard D&D giant races could be appropriate, minus any magical abilities.
quote:
Originally posted by HandsomeRob
quote:
Snoaks
Humanoid rodents... visually, I think something like the hybrid form of a wererat, minus the supernatural abilities.
Yes, very much so. Have you ever played the board game Small World? These guys are the Ratmen. No special powers whatsoever but an alarmingly high birthrate. In a few hundred years they may be the dominant power in northern Sorol.
quote:
Troglodynes
Troglodytes minus the stench ability, Rob? Or would these ones smell bad too?
Small guys, somewhat similar to the Snoaks in appearance.
quote:
Tyvalri
Rob: Are they more like aarakocra or more like kenku? Or something else altogether?
Looking at pictures online, they look very much like Kenku.
quote:
Next step: statting the races. I have the next six days off work, so I should have some time to do this... when I'm not looking for another job.
Wow, have fun! I'll try to write some more about the races soon to help you out. Feel free to PM me with specific questions about them as well. Good luck!
-Rob
This is the first time I've adapted a non-gaming world to a game system with no alternate conversion already done as a guide; I did convert Middle-Earth to D&D rules, but since most (if not all) of the creatures already existed (by alternate names in many cases), the conversion was much easier, and it was a long time ago (late 1st edition days). That's why I'm starting off by trying to find D&D analogues for your races. I'll be back shortly with ability score adjustments based on the D&D races, and then we can see how accurately those adjustments reflect your conception of the race, and tweak them from there. |
Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.
If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic. |
Edited by - Jakk on 15 May 2010 22:49:38 |
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Jakk
Great Reader
Canada
2165 Posts |
Posted - 16 May 2010 : 01:42:04
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Okay, here's a start to the race statting; I'll be editing this post as I assemble more stats. Standard ability score adjustments and basic racial abilities according to the standard races, edited as appropriate based on current knowledge.
Alvar
Same as elves. Alvar are taller and slimmer than humans, and weigh about as much as a human a foot shorter.
+2 Dexterity, +2 Intelligence, +2 Wisdom; -4 Charisma with respect to non-Alvar.
More info forthcoming.
Honga
+6 Strength, +4 Dexterity, +4 Constitution; -4 Intelligence, +2 Wisdom, -4 Charisma. These adjustments (and those in the rest of this description) are based on those used for the ungatan. PC honga always have Intelligence and Charisma scores of at least 4 (the minimum for any stat for a PC in my ruleset), so the player of a honga PC must put scores of at least 8 into Int and Cha initially; none of this "capping the penalty at the minimum" nonsense. I use a fairly generous stat-generation method, so there should be nothing to complain about in my campaigns.
A hongas base land speed is 40 feet, and honga have a natural climb speed of 40 feet in natural environments, reduced to 30 feet in urban surroundings.
Low-Light Vision: Honga can see twice as far as a human in starlight, moonlight, torchlight, and similar conditions of poor illumination. They retain the ability to distinguish color and detail under these conditions.
Scent: See page 314 of the revised (3.5) Monster Manual.
Racial Skills: Honga have a +4 racial bonus on Perception checks.
+3 natural armor bonus.
Favored Class: Barbarian.
Level adjustment +1.
Humans
Well... they're humans. Any further commentary by me will be perceived (correctly) as honest, objective, and misanthropic.
Hymari
[statistics forthcoming]
Myaurr
[statistics forthcoming]
Myril
[statistics forthcoming]
Nargs
[statistics forthcoming]
Paucuat
Favoured Class: Bard.
[more statistics forthcoming]
Vroffha
[statistics forthcoming]
Zaku
[statistics forthcoming]
Zluda
[statistics forthcoming]
Minority Populations
The remaining sentient species on Sorol have much lower populations.
Cugai
[statistics forthcoming]
Giants
[statistics forthcoming]
Kliaz
[statistics forthcoming]
Snoaks
[statistics forthcoming]
Thr'kkit
[statistics forthcoming]
Troglodynes
[statistics forthcoming]
Turog
[will need some creativity in the stats dept; statistics forthcoming]
Tyvalri
[statistics forthcoming]
Ungatan
+10 Strength, +4 Dexterity, +4 Constitution; -8 Intelligence, +2 Wisdom, -4 Charisma. These adjustments are unchanged straight from the Ape description in the Monster Manual. PC ungatan always have Intelligence and Charisma scores of at least 4 (the minimum for any stat for a PC in my ruleset), so the player of an ungatan PC must put at least a 12 into Int and an 8 into Cha initially; none of this "capping the penalty at the minimum" nonsense. I use a fairly generous stat-generation method, so there should be nothing to complain about in my campaigns.
An ungatans base land speed is 30 feet, and ungatan have a natural climb speed of 30 feet in natural environments, reduced to 20 feet in urban surroundings.
Low-Light Vision: Ungatan can see twice as far as a human in starlight, moonlight, torchlight, and similar conditions of poor illumination. They retain the ability to distinguish color and detail under these conditions.
Scent: See page 314 of the revised (3.5) Monster Manual.
Racial Skills: Ungatan have a +4 racial bonus on Perception checks.
+3 natural armor bonus, -1 size penalty to attack rolls and AC.
Favored Class: Barbarian.
Level adjustment +2.
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Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.
If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic. |
Edited by - Jakk on 16 May 2010 01:52:33 |
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Tyranthraxus
Senior Scribe
Netherlands
423 Posts |
Posted - 16 May 2010 : 15:33:51
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Wow! Amazing, keep up the good work Bob and Jakk!
quote:
Originally posted by Cleric Generic
lol! Handsome said he might be doing an Athas map! Of course he is, it's the only other campaign setting I might actually get all geeky about!
Dude, awesomeness, once again!
I can't wait for the new Dark Sun campaign! I'm also psyched about the new Gamma World and Ravenloft games |
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Fingal
Seeker
56 Posts |
Posted - 18 May 2010 : 19:05:58
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| Those maps are astounding. Absolutely amazing. I'm compiling stuff for my own world building project just now and have been looking at map making software - can I ask what you used for them? It's an entire side to things I'm getting very interested in. |
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HandsomeRob
Seeker
68 Posts |
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Fingal
Seeker
56 Posts |
Posted - 18 May 2010 : 21:37:08
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I've skimmed the tutorial and bookedmarked it for later: it looks fascinating. I can't wait to get into reading it.
I'm about to buy a couple of the Profantasy products but didn't really look at the fractal generators..Might have to rethink that. Mind you, i do have pretty definite ideas about land mass shapes and placements already. Aside from that I haven't used or owned Photoshop since the mid nineties - This might give me an excuse to nuy it again.
Cheers! |
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Jakk
Great Reader
Canada
2165 Posts |
Posted - 24 May 2010 : 04:44:12
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Apologies for taking so long with this... the Osse project has put this on hold for the moment, for both myself and Rob. I have a few days off work coming up, but I'm also (hopefully) moving at the end of the month, which might take me offline for a few days. We'll see how it all goes...
I will be getting back to this; it's just a question of when... 
Edit: Heh... this was my (10 x 11 x 12)th post... |
Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.
If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic. |
Edited by - Jakk on 24 May 2010 04:45:32 |
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Sorol
