| Author |
 Topic  |
|
|
Thauramarth
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
729 Posts |
 Posted - 04 Apr 2010 : 18:06:22
|
I was inserting the timeline for the Moonshae trilogy from the Forgotten Realms Atlas in my overall FR timeline documents, and all of a sudden, I had an epiphany.
I got the feeling that perhaps Bhaal was a miscast for the role of "evil opponent deity" in the Moonshae trilogy. With the use of Kazgoroth "the Beast", the perytons, and the involvement of a lycanthrope (the cursed druid Trahern), I would say that Malar would have been a better choice as an opponent. He seems more appropriate as the "natural enemy" of the Earthmother. In addition, Ithyak-Orteel, the Elf-Eater, who makes a gobbling appearance in the Follow-up Druidhome trilogy, is basically a pet of Malar's.
And, if we want to get historical, if Kazgoroth was ever affiliated with Bhaal, Bhaal must have become a deity prior to 201 DR, when Cymrych High cleaned Kazgoroth's clock, and my gut feeling has always been that the ascension of Bhaal, Bane, and Myrkul had not yet occurred at that time (and let's not revisit that particular discussion, shall we?)
Thinking more about it, I liked the idea more and more for the background of my Realms, especially since the change can be made quite painlessly (the timeline events do not change), it's just a matter of replacing "Bhaal" with "Malar" in the timeline document. Of course, for the purposes of my campaign, this allows me replace Hobarth of Bhaal with a priest of Malar, who happened to have been the mentor of one of the PCs' main foils in the campaign.
It's one of those little changes that do not really affect overall canon, and at the same time make the background more "right" for your own campaign.
|
|
|
Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 04 Apr 2010 : 18:55:54
|
Yes alar would be a better match in my opinion. I never really understood why Niles decided to use Bhaal as the antagonist. Of the top of my head I cant think of any real problem with this except for some ties to the dead (its been a couple of years, but didn't Hogarth awaken the Dead of the Sea?), but this could be easily explained, for example with Malars alliance with Umberlee.
And just so it has been said, I hate the idea of the ascension of Bhaal, Bane, and Myrkul. As a myth OK, but nothing more. |
 |
|
|
Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 04 Apr 2010 : 19:07:24
|
Well, do remember that trilogy wasn't originally written for FR. It was originally written for Dragonlance and then edited/changed to fit into FR.
But yes, Malar makes more sense. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
|
|
|
Knight of the Gate
Senior Scribe
USA
624 Posts |
Posted - 04 Apr 2010 : 21:09:46
|
I actually always liked Moander for this role: perhaps a splinter of Mo that has a slightly different aspect in the Moonshaes (like Chauntea/the Earthmother).
Having said that, Malar is at least as good a choice. |
How can life be so bountiful, providing such sublime rewards for mediocrity? -Umberto Ecco |
|
|
|
The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
|
|
Apex
Learned Scribe
USA
229 Posts |
Posted - 06 Apr 2010 : 01:39:23
|
According to FR2 Moonshae:
quote:
The origins of Kazgoroth lurk in the
past, nearly as distant as those of the
goddess herself. In the pantheon of the
Realms, the Beast is manifested as an
aspect of Malar (MAY-larr), the Beastlord
So, we have the appearance of a conflict as both works were penned by Doug Niles. |
|
|
|
Bakra
Senior Scribe
628 Posts |
Posted - 06 Apr 2010 : 15:49:24
|
quote:
Originally posted by Apex
According to FR2 Moonshae:
quote:
The origins of Kazgoroth lurk in the
past, nearly as distant as those of the
goddess herself. In the pantheon of the
Realms, the Beast is manifested as an
aspect of Malar (MAY-larr), the Beastlord
So, we have the appearance of a conflict as both works were penned by Doug Niles.
Not really a conflict. Latter lore superseded older lore. Go with the supplement, I think it was published a few months after the book. |
I hope Candlekeep continues to be the friendly forum of fellow Realms-lovers that it has always been, as we all go through this together. If you don’t want to move to the “new” Realms, that doesn’t mean there’s anything wrong with either you or the “old” Realms. Goodness knows Candlekeep, and the hearts of its scribes, are both big enough to accommodate both. If we want them to be.
(Strikes dramatic pose, raises sword to gleam in the sunset, and hopes breeches won’t fall down.)
Enough for now. The Realms lives! I have spoken! Ale and light wines half price, served by a smiling Storm Silverhand fetchingly clad in thigh-high boots and naught else! Ahem . .
So saith Ed. <snip>
love to all,
THO
|
|
|
|
Apex
Learned Scribe
USA
229 Posts |
Posted - 06 Apr 2010 : 18:13:50
|
quote:
Not really a conflict. Latter lore superseded older lore. Go with the supplement, I think it was published a few months after the book.
Except the Villains Lorebook references Kazgoroth as a minion of Bhaal. So again we have a major conflict. |
|
|
|
Thauramarth
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
729 Posts |
Posted - 06 Apr 2010 : 23:44:52
|
| Maybe Kazgaroth was on secondment... It's been known to happen. |
|
|
|
Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36782 Posts |
Posted - 07 Apr 2010 : 00:24:23
|
It's possible that ol' Kazzie was an aspect of one deity, but the other later snagged him away.  |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 07 Apr 2010 00:24:52 |
|
|
|
Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 07 Apr 2010 : 13:30:05
|
It's simple. Niles used Bhaal because when he looked at the list of deities in the realms, he thought he was the "coolest" of the bunch  |
Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
|
|
|
Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 10 Apr 2010 : 09:39:34
|
quote:
Originally posted by Bakra
quote:
Originally posted by Apex
According to FR2 Moonshae:
quote:
The origins of Kazgoroth lurk in the
past, nearly as distant as those of the
goddess herself. In the pantheon of the
Realms, the Beast is manifested as an
aspect of Malar (MAY-larr), the Beastlord
So, we have the appearance of a conflict as both works were penned by Doug Niles.
Not really a conflict. Latter lore superseded older lore. Go with the supplement, I think it was published a few months after the book.
Strangely enough for me its the other way around, older before new. And Bhaal was mentioned in the later Moonshae trilogy, Hall of Heroes (although those entries were written by Steve Perrin)and later products. Come to think of it wasn't Darkwell, the book that contained Bhaal directly published after FR2? |
|
|
|
Tyranthraxus
Senior Scribe
Netherlands
423 Posts |
Posted - 11 Apr 2010 : 13:30:23
|
| Could it be Bhaal and Malar somehow worked together (maybe unknowingly)? |
|
|
|
Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 12 Apr 2010 : 17:01:04
|
quote:
Originally posted by Tyranthraxus
Could it be Bhaal and Malar somehow worked together (maybe unknowingly)?
Or that they are secretly one and the same  |
Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
|
|
|
Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 12 Apr 2010 : 18:57:47
|
quote:
Originally posted by Alisttair
quote:
Originally posted by Tyranthraxus
Could it be Bhaal and Malar somehow worked together (maybe unknowingly)?
Or that they are secretly one and the same
That would make for some serious lore-juggling as Bhaal is dead and Malar alive.
I prefer to just think that the one seen in the Moonshaes is a more primitive aspect of Bhaal, even though, as I said, I agree that with the way things are described in the book, Malar would be a better choice. |
|
|
| |
Topic |
|
Was Bhaal Right for the Moonshae Trilogy?
