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Noxica
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Posted - 16 Feb 2010 :  15:09:53  Show Profile  Visit Noxica's Homepage Send Noxica a Private Message  Reply with Quote  Delete Topic
This is a two part question..

From what I know, Ioulaum is just sitting around in the Underdark as an undead overmind creating Alhoon's and brewing masterful plans, (waiting for DM intervention).

Any news on him in 4e? Has he done anything or died? He has to be once of the oldest figures in FR predating even Larloch.

Which segways into my next question, Larloch is a Netheril prince but what information is there about who he was during the times of Netheril, what enclave did he run and how did he survive Karsus folly?

I have Netheril: Empire of Magic, which is great but lacks information about the above scenarios.

Knight of the Gate
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Posted - 16 Feb 2010 :  16:10:42  Show Profile Send Knight of the Gate a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Short version: Larloch was the ruler of Jiksidur (sp?) which he was flying over Narfell/Raumathar when certain divinations told him that the Weave was about to poof out: He escaped his enclave on dragonback.
The full story is in LEoF.
BTW, Jiksidur crashed in the Great Dale and is apparently largely undisturbed.

How can life be so bountiful, providing such sublime rewards for mediocrity? -Umberto Ecco
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Noxica
Seeker

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Posted - 16 Feb 2010 :  16:32:37  Show Profile  Visit Noxica's Homepage Send Noxica a Private Message  Reply with Quote
LEoF?

*sorry I don't know what that is!*
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Brimstone
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Posted - 16 Feb 2010 :  16:46:44  Show Profile Send Brimstone a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Lost Empires of Faerun. 3.5 book, very good.

"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep
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Knight of the Gate
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Posted - 16 Feb 2010 :  18:26:46  Show Profile Send Knight of the Gate a Private Message  Reply with Quote
And for the record, if you have issues with abbreviations in the future, take a look @ the FAQ- it lists the most common book abbreviations used here at the 'Keep.
And Brimmy's right: LEoF is one of the best FR supplements of 3.x, IMO (right up there with Serpent Kingdoms): I had assumed that you had access to LEoF, since that's where Ioulam's current whereabouts are revealed.

How can life be so bountiful, providing such sublime rewards for mediocrity? -Umberto Ecco
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Noxica
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23 Posts

Posted - 17 Feb 2010 :  02:18:11  Show Profile  Visit Noxica's Homepage Send Noxica a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I learned about his current whereabouts from wizards of the coast website and a few wiki pages, Really I hear him mentioned so much in the Netheril book and its quiet apparent he abandons ship before Netheril falls. So I have been doing the leg work, Ill check some local book stores see if I can grab that book it sounds like exactly what I am after,

Thank Ye Both!
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Knight of the Gate
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Posted - 17 Feb 2010 :  04:41:55  Show Profile Send Knight of the Gate a Private Message  Reply with Quote
There have been many, many qustions about Larloch in the 'Ask Ed' thread- and Ed's answer (to whatever question on the topic) is almost always a variation on the theme of "Larloch is a Don't Go There NPC"- in other words, PC's are never meant to be head-to-head with him, as he's all but a Power in his own right. He has 60+ Netherese liches to throw at the PCs before they ever get to him, and he himself is (Lords of Darkness stats notwithstanding) a ~47th level Wizard and an Ultra-Lich (meaning that he has a slew of self-given powers including 100% magic reflection) and basically resides in the realm of Don't Go There. He's not a meddler (insofar as anything which might antagonize the PCs) but is more of a 'player behind the scenes' that your players will likely never even hear of, let alone confront.

How can life be so bountiful, providing such sublime rewards for mediocrity? -Umberto Ecco
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
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Posted - 17 Feb 2010 :  05:26:46  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
And here's one of the Ed tidbits... I particularly like this one because not only was it something that just randomly occurred to me one day, but because it's also an interesting angle:

quote:
To Wooly Rupert: when you post sentences like this one: And though I can't think of any evidence to support it, it's not impossible that part of what Larloch is doing is containing something... be aware that you are (ahem) VERY perceptive.

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The Sage
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Posted - 17 Feb 2010 :  06:10:32  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
We've all thought about that kinda thing at one time or another.

Ed's answers imply that Larloch MAY have some plots, but if he does, they're so wide-reaching, complicated, and clandestine that virtually no one in the Realms [including the Chosen] knows what they are.

One of his current 'plots' revolved around controlling portals and portal networks throughout Faern. He's looking at controlling the gates indirectly. In the sense that he'll be doing a couple of things:-

1. Monitoring people movement; who goes where and more importantly, why;

2. Putting in place magics to control creatures or people using 'his' portals, or at the very least access their knowledge/memories;

3. Using his knowledge of portals and portal networks to bring groups or individuals into conflict and thereby benefiting from the fallout.

All of this is intended to be done without the hand of Larloch being apparent.

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Noxica
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Posted - 17 Feb 2010 :  09:44:57  Show Profile  Visit Noxica's Homepage Send Noxica a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I know hes a big player and I won't ever think of taking him on, I was just curious more about his up coming and what was new with him since 4ed, since so many weave related npcs seem to be disappearing (being killed off).
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Nicolai Withander
Master of Realmslore

Denmark
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Posted - 21 Feb 2010 :  16:30:23  Show Profile Send Nicolai Withander a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Im pretty sure they are brewing on some way to resurrect Karsus. Then Take he power from Szass Tam, and bring Mystra back to life! Then they will all rule a nice good old realm as we know it!!!
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Nicolai Withander
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Denmark
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Posted - 21 Feb 2010 :  16:31:17  Show Profile Send Nicolai Withander a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Im pretty sure they are brewing on some way to resurrect Karsus. Then Take he power from Szass Tam, and bring Mystra back to life! Then they will all rule a nice good old realm as we know it!!!
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_Jarlaxle_
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Posted - 21 Feb 2010 :  17:12:58  Show Profile Send _Jarlaxle_ a Private Message  Reply with Quote
What would they want from Karsus?
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Nicolai Withander
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Posted - 21 Feb 2010 :  18:02:15  Show Profile Send Nicolai Withander a Private Message  Reply with Quote
They are the 3 most powerful mortal spellcasters of all time. They could woop Szass Tam as easy as stealing candy from a baby! And karsus might still remember some of his Avatar spell and they could all become new gods, that would slay bane and Shar and what not
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Ashe Ravenheart
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Posted - 21 Feb 2010 :  18:42:01  Show Profile Send Ashe Ravenheart a Private Message  Reply with Quote
And... Karsus can't be brought back since he's a dead god. If they figure out how to bring him back, then they can skip the Karsus step and bring Mystra back directly.

I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.

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Nicolai Withander
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Denmark
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Posted - 21 Feb 2010 :  20:10:04  Show Profile Send Nicolai Withander a Private Message  Reply with Quote
interesting... well if anybody if up to the task its them! Im rooting for them!!!!
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_Jarlaxle_
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Posted - 22 Feb 2010 :  12:58:46  Show Profile Send _Jarlaxle_ a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Even if they would have been the most powerfull spellcasters ever and even if Iolaum and Larloch would have any interest in working together suddenly they won't have any interest in Karsus. Karsus was mighty and talentet but not that mighty and why would they take the risk to bring him back so he can try to become a god again? There would be nothing in it for them, they weren't like best buddies ;)
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The Red Walker
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Posted - 22 Feb 2010 :  16:26:58  Show Profile  Send The Red Walker a Yahoo! Message Send The Red Walker a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart

And... Karsus can't be brought back since he's a dead god. If they figure out how to bring him back, then they can skip the Karsus step and bring Mystra back directly.




And if Karsus was brought back...he might see that as accomplishing his goal, and then why would he need Mystra?

A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka

"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -

John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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Noxica
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Posted - 28 Feb 2010 :  07:14:43  Show Profile  Visit Noxica's Homepage Send Noxica a Private Message  Reply with Quote
He is not a deity, I love Karsus and think he was very talented but the fact that he is now dead and gone makes him all that more interesting. We all wish we could hear his opinion on whats happening in the realms now, namely what his feelings would be on the Shade city that recently appeared.
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sfdragon
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Posted - 28 Feb 2010 :  16:49:13  Show Profile Send sfdragon a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart

And... Karsus can't be brought back since he's a dead god. If they figure out how to bring him back, then they can skip the Karsus step and bring Mystra back directly.




ummm... not quite true.
to bring back a dead god requires a ritual requiring something of theirs while they were mortal or had in their possession.

Or if they were like Helm and put his life force into an item, bring his life force to where his/her body lies....

well this is as much as I udnerstood it

why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power


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Magister's GAmbit
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Jakk
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Canada
2165 Posts

Posted - 04 Apr 2010 :  21:04:54  Show Profile Send Jakk a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Okay... I've recently learned some intriguing things about these two (and Halaster)... and this seems to be as good a scroll as any to resurrect for them. The following is compiled from a recent exchange between myself and The Hooded One (THO) in Ed's Questions 2010 scroll, and I thought that other scribes with better access to the older lore than I currently possess might be able to make something of this:

quote:
Originally posted by Jakk

quote:
Originally posted by The Sage

quote:
Originally posted by createvmind

Which leads to wonder if any of Mystryl's Chosen still live pre-spellplague?

The Lady Hooded One, ever the mistress of mysteries, once told us re: the fate of some of Mystryl's Chosen:-

" ... you tread into darkly perilous ground, approaching (gasp) a secret of the Realms that has been sitting in plain sight for lo these many years, just waiting for a brilliant scribe to pounce upon.

Heh-heh. Which is a grand way of saying Ed won't answer you directly. You'll have to wait (for some time) for a rather more public answer.

Heh heh heh.

love,
THO"



This post immediately grabbed my attention. Upon reading this for the third time, I was struck by a possibility... or three. (1) Halaster (we know what happened to Sammaster, and now that I see the names in print so close together, I'm struck by their similarity, but that's another matter...) -- maybe, as one of Mystryl's Chosen, his madness was induced by the death of his goddess in the Year of Sundered Webs. (2) Larloch - the big question here being, did he become a lich in order to avoid Halaster's madness, or did he lose his status as a Chosen upon becoming a lich earlier? (3) Ioulaum - this one's wide open.



quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One

Heh. Heh. Heh. NDAs are frustrating things from the inside, too. As it happens, I know far more than I can tell.
As for Ed, he knows LIBRARIES full of lore he can't tell. Imagine HIS frustration.
I wonder if he'll be able to cajole a loosening of NDAs at GenCon this year, to let slip a few hints and whispers...
love,
THO



quote:
Originally posted by Jakk
Re: THO's response: I'll take the staccato chuckle to indicate confirmation on three counts, thank you. No more need be said (or, likely, can be at this point... hopefully this is not a permanent state, however).

Edit: I share your hope for a loosening of NDAs... particularly around the Cormyr Lineage and, now, this great secret sitting in plain sight... I *do* wish I had my full lore library accessible to me at this moment...

Can Ed say approximately how *much* time we'll have to wait? Or is this dependent on publisher plans unconfirmed (or even unmade) at this point?



quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One

Jakk,
Yes, I believe you've interpreted my chuckles correctly.
And the NDA loosening depends on plans not yet finalized, and convincing arguments not yet put.
soft warm love,
THO



quote:
Originally posted by Jakk

Thank you for all of that, milady... particularly the soft warm love, digital though it may be.

One last question on these matters, one for which I don't expect a direct answer (as I suspect NDAs will make one impossible anyway): to expand on my previous musings, here's what I think happened: Ioulaum saw the Fall coming (and survived the death of Mystryl by his transformation into his current form), Larloch survived Mystryl's death due to his transformation to a lich (which may or may not have been his plan), and Halaster went mad due to the death of his goddess. Just wink if I'm on the right track with this.

My question is a simple one: Is this the entirety of the "secret of the Realms that has been sitting in plain sight for lo these many years, just waiting for a brilliant scribe to pounce upon"... or is there more to it?

A second question comes to mind as well... if there is more to it, where in published material do we look for the rest of it? Mention of a title or titles is sufficient; I don't expect all of my detective work to be done for me, but it was interesting to go back over the old lore and track down the Spellplague predictors.



quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One

Heh. Ed says I'm not allowed to wink, and he doesn't think I could manage two-thirds of a wink anyway.
And no, this matter is NOT that secret that's been sitting in plain sight.
Bwoohahahahaha, and so forth.
love,
THO



quote:
Originally posted by Jakk

OOOH! I think I have it! (And it took about ten minutes for this page to load, so my spontaneity is somewhat manufactured...)
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

And here's one of the Ed tidbits... I particularly like this one because not only was it something that just randomly occurred to me one day, but because it's also an interesting angle:

[quote]To Wooly Rupert: when you post sentences like this one: And though I can't think of any evidence to support it, it's not impossible that part of what Larloch is doing is containing something... be aware that you are (ahem) VERY perceptive.


So... does this comment have anything to do with my previous speculation, or am I chasing wild geese again?

Edit: Apparently it's the wild geese, given your recent post; danged long wait times... hrmm... two-thirds of a wink... now I just have to puzzle out which two-thirds... This is fun... and I think I've figured out which two-thirds, but I'm not going to put forth any further speculation. Meh, who am I kidding...

Addendum: Actually, it should be fairly obvious to anyone who has the lore and does some research (like myself) or who knows the lore (like I used to, when I had time to read everything a dozen times over)... Larloch was transformed due to his own contingencies when the Weave failed with the Fall of Karsus, and so it must be my speculations on Halaster and Ioulaum that are correct.
<snip>
Edit: removed off-topic trailer. Edit: 17 April: I'm still puzzling over this one, including the Larloch "containment" idea and the secret in plain sight... I need my older (pre-3E) lore... <sigh>


Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.

If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic.

Edited by - Jakk on 17 Apr 2010 17:10:03
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Jakk
Great Reader

Canada
2165 Posts

Posted - 17 Apr 2010 :  17:21:54  Show Profile Send Jakk a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Topic-restoring summary:

We know the fate of Ioulaum (pre-Spellplague, at least) thanks to LEoF (pp101-102). Exactly what Ioulaum's goals are, however, is as mysterious a topic as Larloch's goals. Ioulaum is still not nearly as interesting a character to me as Larloch and Halaster... this probably has something to do with the proximity of the latter two to Waterdeep.

Here's a thought regarding Larloch and Halaster in post-Spellplague canon:

What if, now that the Spellplague has disrupted Larloch's portal network, his current (post-1385) project is the recovery of Halaster's soul shards?

What does the thought of Larloch being the one to reassemble Halaster's soul do for your nightmares?

Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.

If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic.
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Jakk
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Canada
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Posted - 03 May 2010 :  22:11:56  Show Profile Send Jakk a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Heh... apparently I scared my fellow scribes into silence on this one... as I said before, it's a good thing Halaster's still alive in my Realms...

Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.

If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic.
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Cleric Generic
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United Kingdom
565 Posts

Posted - 03 May 2010 :  23:39:34  Show Profile  Visit Cleric Generic's Homepage Send Cleric Generic a Private Message  Reply with Quote
lol, it is a nifty idea...

I could see Larloch restoring Halaster to life (or undeath), if not restoring his sanity, and giving him back the keys to Undermountain in return for some undisclosed and typically far reaching service. He's been known to deal with Szaz Tam on various occasions, and Halaster is, arguably, a less disruptive individual to deal with (less interested in world domination that messing with adventurers i nhis mega-dungeon).

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ALL HAIL LORD KARSUS!!!

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Jakk
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Canada
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Posted - 04 May 2010 :  00:31:55  Show Profile Send Jakk a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Cleric Generic

lol, it is a nifty idea...

I could see Larloch restoring Halaster to life (or undeath), if not restoring his sanity, and giving him back the keys to Undermountain in return for some undisclosed and typically far reaching service. He's been known to deal with Szaz Tam on various occasions, and Halaster is, arguably, a less disruptive individual to deal with (less interested in world domination that messing with adventurers i nhis mega-dungeon).



Hrm... I think I commented on this in my earlier post, but do you suppose that "far reaching service" you mention could be the restoration of Faerun's portal network? Larloch seems to have some particular interest in this project, and we know that Halaster is the master portal wizard...

Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.

If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic.
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Cleric Generic
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United Kingdom
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Posted - 04 May 2010 :  00:58:17  Show Profile  Visit Cleric Generic's Homepage Send Cleric Generic a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Indeed!

Halaster already had those portals that could strip users of magic items and divert them from one destination to another depending on certain criteria. The fact that his soul had been blown to bits by whatever he was clowning around with down there would also also presumably prove interesting to a scholar such as Larloch, especially if he could work out how to reassemble said soul and ask questions about the experience...

Cedric! The Cleric Generic and Master of Disguise!

ALL HAIL LORD KARSUS!!!

Vast Realmslore Archive: Get in here and download everything! http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/archfr/rl

2e Realms book PDFs; grab em! - http://poleandrope.blogspot.com/2010/07/working-around-purge.html
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