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woodwwad
Learned Scribe
USA
267 Posts |
 Posted - 31 Dec 2009 : 22:12:38
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I'm a big fan of the race but in 3/3.5 I think they really get jacked. They are the only base race that has unbalanced stats, and on the downside. They get basically no special abilities, other than darkvision which is nice but not better than the whole list of skills Elves, Gnomes, Halfling, or Dwarves get. The lack of special qualities along with the -2 overall stat drop, I think they are clearly the weakest race. The excuse that Str is the best stat which I have heard put forth is highly debatable. Sure, it is the best stat if you are playing a fighter, or Barbarian. But even Rangers and Paladines aren't clearly better off with str than other stats as their highest. And Str is not the best stat for Rogues, Bards, Wizards and Sorcerers---not even the 2nd most important for any of them, overall. Personally, I think DEX is the best stat overall as it is important to every character, where STR isn't.
When I have a player in my game run a Half-Orc, I blanace their stats str +2, Int -1 and Cha -1 with darkvision 60 feet and a + 2 racial bonus to Intimidation. I think this is in no way unbalanced and makes the race playable and possibly still a little on the weak side.
What do you think about the way the Half-Orc in 3/3.5?
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Check out my reviews on youtube of Forgotten Realms and other rpg products. http://www.youtube.com/user/woodwwad?feature=mhum |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4427 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jan 2010 : 00:08:47
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I think it's pretty stupid too. In fact, I really think any penalty to ability modifiers sucks and it's used to force certain races into a specific role based on pre-existing notions created originally by such sources as Lord of the Rings.
But anyways, I always gave the half-orc +2 Str and -2 to Int. If half-orcs are supposed to be intimidating, scary, and strike fear into people then a penalty to Cha doesn't make much sense. |
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woodwwad
Learned Scribe
USA
267 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jan 2010 : 03:21:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
I think it's pretty stupid too. In fact, I really think any penalty to ability modifiers sucks and it's used to force certain races into a specific role based on pre-existing notions created originally by such sources as Lord of the Rings.
But anyways, I always gave the half-orc +2 Str and -2 to Int. If half-orcs are supposed to be intimidating, scary, and strike fear into people then a penalty to Cha doesn't make much sense.
I like stat penalties, another thing about 4th I don't like. But I think your fix is pretty decent, but it doesn't address the lack of other special abilities they don't get. I think I've yet to hear anyone that thinks the write up of Half-Orcs was done well or didn't need to be fixed. I really wish they'd fixed them in 3.5, like they did with the Half-Elf. |
Check out my reviews on youtube of Forgotten Realms and other rpg products. http://www.youtube.com/user/woodwwad?feature=mhum |
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bladeinAmn
Learned Scribe
199 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jan 2010 : 03:50:18
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I beleive the -2 penalty to Intelligence and Charisma isn't due to them being orcs, but rather, b/c of how orcs are viewed and then treated by mainstream society in Toril. The general populace isn't gonna give them the respect that the other 'playable' races get, but rather, they're always gonna be treated as savage brutes by the general populace, and thus they also won't get the opportunities to learn (intelligence) and interact (charisma) w/people in mainstream societies.
This is all barring rare exceptions of course. You can always make an Ondonti orc from the 2e Monstrous Compendium Annual Volume III. They're a society of peaceful orcs that enjoy farming, worship Eldath, and are found in obscure nothern settlements in The Ride.
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SirUrza
Master of Realmslore
USA
1283 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jan 2010 : 23:05:39
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Check out the new pathfinder rpg ruleset... 3.75 if you will. Paizo rebalanced the core raises.
For the free SRD: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/
For the product line: http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG |
"Evil prevails when good men fail to act."
The original and unapologetic Arilyn, Aribeth, Seoni Fanboy. |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4427 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jan 2010 : 21:03:30
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quote:
Originally posted by SirUrza
Check out the new pathfinder rpg ruleset... 3.75 if you will. Paizo rebalanced the core raises.
I like Pathfinders take as well, giving the half-orc the same flexability as the human and half-elf. |
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bladeinAmn
Learned Scribe
199 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jan 2010 : 05:01:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
I think it's pretty stupid too. In fact, I really think any penalty to ability modifiers sucks and it's used to force certain races into a specific role based on pre-existing notions created originally by such sources as Lord of the Rings.
But anyways, I always gave the half-orc +2 Str and -2 to Int. If half-orcs are supposed to be intimidating, scary, and strike fear into people then a penalty to Cha doesn't make much sense.
I think intimidation checks from an orc should come from thier best attribute, be it Cha, Str, Dex, or even Wis. If I was DM'ing a game, I'd make the enemy orcs roll thier intimidation checks from thier Str modifier, unless they have a good Cha score.
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jan 2010 : 14:58:22
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| A penalty to Charisma makes perfect sense to me... People tend to favor the pretty, and to shy away from the ugly. Someone with a face ugly enough to stop a sundial is going to be more intimidating than a curvy, perky little blonde. |
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woodwwad
Learned Scribe
USA
267 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jan 2010 : 03:45:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
A penalty to Charisma makes perfect sense to me... People tend to favor the pretty, and to shy away from the ugly. Someone with a face ugly enough to stop a sundial is going to be more intimidating than a curvy, perky little blonde.
I understand what you are saying and in 2e they pretty much gave everything that was ugly a cha penalty, when they had player stats. But in 3.5 where everything has stats and lots of really ugly races have CHA bonuses it is a hard argument to make. Orcs are a lot better looking than Harpies, who have a cha bonus.
But then that really isn't the issue. The issue is the writter totally made the race unbalanced in a weak way. |
Check out my reviews on youtube of Forgotten Realms and other rpg products. http://www.youtube.com/user/woodwwad?feature=mhum |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4427 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jan 2010 : 11:11:22
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quote:
Originally posted by woodwwad
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
A penalty to Charisma makes perfect sense to me... People tend to favor the pretty, and to shy away from the ugly. Someone with a face ugly enough to stop a sundial is going to be more intimidating than a curvy, perky little blonde.
I understand what you are saying and in 2e they pretty much gave everything that was ugly a cha penalty, when they had player stats. But in 3.5 where everything has stats and lots of really ugly races have CHA bonuses it is a hard argument to make. Orcs are a lot better looking than Harpies, who have a cha bonus.
But then that really isn't the issue. The issue is the writter totally made the race unbalanced in a weak way.
But unbalanced is the staple-point of 3E. But the half-orc does get the short end of the stick and I think Paizo does a fair job of making it a more "playable" race. |
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The Half-Orc in 3/3.5
