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Aginor37
Seeker

20 Posts

Posted - 16 Oct 2010 :  06:47:50  Show Profile  Visit Aginor37's Homepage Send Aginor37 a Private Message
Dear Ed,

I finally got my hands on ELMINSTER MUST DIE, and first I wanted to say that once again, you have delivered a masterpiece... Great story in and of itself, but also brimming with lore and leaving one begging for more. One thing, though, left me feeling that just maybe it was a tad convenient (not in a bad way, mind you, but more in a "hmm" sense. Thus my question.

We have 3 servants of a now-dead goddess. One, a mage of incredible power, has to absorb magic (in ever-increasing amounts, regardless of magic used) or go insane in a manner that precludes using magic. This mage is the great love of a second mage of great power but greater knowledge and wisdom, who has the ability to (if better means can't be found) feed the first mage as much magic as she needs, at the cost of he himself going mad. The third servant, a person of great compassion and who loves both of the first two greatly, seems reduced to a single but apparently unique power, that being the ability to restore the sanity of the second servant. Said servants also have a means to cheat death by age or disease indefinitely, albeit one of questionable morality. That was a bit longer-winded than I intended, but I wanted to at least make some effort to at least slightly obscure spoilers for those who, like myself, got the book rather later than one might want.

It seems to me, that as long as the above three avoid destruction by enemies or other instant and unpredictable hazards, have the means to live as long as they would need to achieve a certain task, and that (pure conjecture on my part) the curse afflicting the first, along with the supportive abilities of the other two, guarantee the eventual gathering of sufficient magic. So death aside, it would be a matter of when, not if. be it 100 or 500 years, the three have the capacity to see said task through, simply by surviving and not abandoning each other.

So my question is, assuming said dead goddess was formerly the goddess of magic, would she have had sufficient knowledge of the effects her death (even, or maybe especially if not foreseen) would have on magic and the world that she would have the ability to alter her servants so that if said death ever happened, the magical upheaval would inflict at least those specific properties on those specific servants? I am not asking if she did, since that is a pretty much guaranteed NDA, just if she would have had the knowledge and power to at least try to do so, so some future task could be fulfilled after she was gone.
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore

5036 Posts

Posted - 16 Oct 2010 :  16:25:31  Show Profile  Visit The Hooded One's Homepage Send The Hooded One a Private Message
Hi again, all.
Aginor37, I bring this, from Ed:

Thanks very much for the kind words about ELMINSTER MUST DIE! and I'm glad you liked it. I had a blast writing it. Your "pretty much guaranteed NDA" is, yep, an NDA, all right, but to answer your adroitly-phrased question: yes, she would have that much foresight, and will to prepare in light of it, and taken the trouble to prepare a Plan A, a Plan B, a C and D, and so on. The efficacy of all of which, of course, remains to be seen, but YES, the thinking and planning ahead was definitely there.
Of which we'll see a little more in BURY ELMINSTER DEEP, particularly at the beginning and the end of that narrative . . .


So saith Ed. Who's at work on the third book right now.
love,
THO
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
13294 Posts

Posted - 17 Oct 2010 :  00:34:33  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message
Not so much 'smart planning', but rather "been through it all before", at least two times we are aware of. The amount of fail-safes and redundant systems would probably make NASA proud.

quote:
Originally posted by Sandstorm

Well we were mainly looking at it in concern from Phillip Athans Watercourse Trilogy. The terrain greatly changes after those novels, and we were just wondering exactly what the blue fire did to that region and the nagaflow etc...
No new world (setting) maps appeared between the finale of those novels and 4th edition, nor did any regional maps (AFAIK).

Note the Serpent Kingdoms map does show the area in question, but with no apparent changes from the 3rd edition setting map.

There is a tiny bit in the GhotR about it - I do not have the tome handy but I believe it states the canal was eventually completed. However, the amount of damage sustained by coastal regions and the lowering of the water levels most-likely had devastating effects on that man-made structure.

I would have to guess that the entire work was an exercise in futility, thanks to the changes wrought.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 17 Oct 2010 00:36:01
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Dennis
Great Reader

9933 Posts

Posted - 17 Oct 2010 :  02:14:54  Show Profile Send Dennis a Private Message
Hi, Ed/THO!

Can you please clarify this...

In Dreams of the Red Wizards, p. 17,Jorgmacdon, is mentioned as the first Zulkir of the School of Conjuration. While Tlantros Tulhoond is listed in the first zulkirate (appointed at the Council in the autumn of 1030 DR ) as the zulkir of conjuration.

Every beginning has an end.
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Ayrik
Great Reader

Canada
6150 Posts

Posted - 17 Oct 2010 :  08:02:34  Show Profile Send Ayrik a Private Message
Dennis,

Did you read what THO wrote about the first Zulkirs elsewhere in this scroll?

Eat lots of garlic - it keeps the elves and vampires away.
Don't stick your sword into dragons, you just don't know where they've been.
Avoid stepping on halflings. They stick to your boots, will smell awful, and are impossible to scrape off.
Ah, of course. Never play leapfrog with a unicorn.
[/Ayrik]
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
13294 Posts

Posted - 17 Oct 2010 :  15:26:45  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message
Idle curiosity question sparked by another thread:

How did the Spellplague affect the Manshoon clones? It was created with Weave magic, and I understand that anything created with the Weave would still be around. However, I was thinking in terms of the 'geas' set upon all the clones to kill one another.

I also realize we were told (somewhere) that only one Manshoon and the Vampire clone survive in the modern FR era, but was that info Toril-specific? Did they die slowly over time, or did it all come to a head immediately following the Spellplague? Would there be other, older clones still around that were not activated by the clone-mishap, or would Manshoon have had to start all over after the plague? (which would include devising a new version of the spell, I would imagine).

And if Manshoon were unable to re-create the magic, does that mean he is much more cautious post-plague?

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 18 Oct 2010 20:46:45
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Foxhelm
Senior Scribe

Canada
592 Posts

Posted - 17 Oct 2010 :  16:23:07  Show Profile  Click to see Foxhelm's MSN Messenger address  Send Foxhelm a Yahoo! Message Send Foxhelm a Private Message
Just wanted to asked these two question again. Asked them on the Third of September and was wonder if there might be an deeper answer yet. Or just to remind you if you forgot with all of the work you do.

Thanks.

1) A repeat of what Avengers and Invokers are like in the Realms?

2) What families of Eladrins in the the Fourth edition realms are the most likely to have mercantile backgrounds and wealth?

Ed Greenwood! The Solution... and Cause of all the Realms Problems!
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31687 Posts

Posted - 17 Oct 2010 :  16:26:40  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Foxhelm

Just wanted to asked these two question again. Asked them on the Third of September and was wonder if there might be an deeper answer yet. Or just to remind you if you forgot with all of the work you do.
There's really no need for the reminder Foxhelm. As I said before, the Lady Hooded One maintains a listing of questions asked. It's simply a matter of when Ed can get to them.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)

"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood

Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage
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Foxhelm
Senior Scribe

Canada
592 Posts

Posted - 17 Oct 2010 :  23:26:05  Show Profile  Click to see Foxhelm's MSN Messenger address  Send Foxhelm a Yahoo! Message Send Foxhelm a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage

quote:
Originally posted by Foxhelm

Just wanted to asked these two question again. Asked them on the Third of September and was wonder if there might be an deeper answer yet. Or just to remind you if you forgot with all of the work you do.
There's really no need for the reminder Foxhelm. As I said before, the Lady Hooded One maintains a listing of questions asked. It's simply a matter of when Ed can get to them.



Sorry, just using the lesson I learned from Disney's The Weekenders. It's not being a bother to remind people of things, it is being helpful.

Ed Greenwood! The Solution... and Cause of all the Realms Problems!
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
29739 Posts

Posted - 18 Oct 2010 :  00:42:58  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Foxhelm

quote:
Originally posted by The Sage

quote:
Originally posted by Foxhelm

Just wanted to asked these two question again. Asked them on the Third of September and was wonder if there might be an deeper answer yet. Or just to remind you if you forgot with all of the work you do.
There's really no need for the reminder Foxhelm. As I said before, the Lady Hooded One maintains a listing of questions asked. It's simply a matter of when Ed can get to them.



Sorry, just using the lesson I learned from Disney's The Weekenders. It's not being a bother to remind people of things, it is being helpful.



Ed keeps a running list of the questions. He's got many demands on his time, however, and can't always readily lay hands on requested lore. Some of us have questions in the queue from at least a couple years ago -- but Ed will get to them, sooner or later. At least once, he answered a question I'd forgotten I asked!

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Editor and scribe for The Candlekeep Compendium

I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31687 Posts

Posted - 18 Oct 2010 :  01:43:32  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Foxhelm

quote:
Originally posted by The Sage

quote:
Originally posted by Foxhelm

Just wanted to asked these two question again. Asked them on the Third of September and was wonder if there might be an deeper answer yet. Or just to remind you if you forgot with all of the work you do.
There's really no need for the reminder Foxhelm. As I said before, the Lady Hooded One maintains a listing of questions asked. It's simply a matter of when Ed can get to them.



Sorry, just using the lesson I learned from Disney's The Weekenders. It's not being a bother to remind people of things, it is being helpful.

Understood. But I'll note that I'm trying to ensure that the side-chatter is severely reduced in this scroll, as it makes my compiling duties somewhat more complicated when I need to filter through pages of non-relevant posts.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)

"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood

Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage
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Dennis
Great Reader

9933 Posts

Posted - 18 Oct 2010 :  16:42:07  Show Profile Send Dennis a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Arik

Dennis,

Did you read what THO wrote about the first Zulkirs elsewhere in this scroll?



Of course. Where else did you think I got the tidbit about Tlantros?

Every beginning has an end.
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Ayrik
Great Reader

Canada
6150 Posts

Posted - 18 Oct 2010 :  21:38:31  Show Profile Send Ayrik a Private Message
dennis,
Whoops, I didn't catch that detail. See what happens when the noob thinks he's smart?

I'm with you, btw ... more Zulkir lore is always good to have. Keep up the good fight while I sit around in the shade.

Eat lots of garlic - it keeps the elves and vampires away.
Don't stick your sword into dragons, you just don't know where they've been.
Avoid stepping on halflings. They stick to your boots, will smell awful, and are impossible to scrape off.
Ah, of course. Never play leapfrog with a unicorn.
[/Ayrik]
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sfdragon
Master of Realmslore

1964 Posts

Posted - 19 Oct 2010 :  02:28:02  Show Profile Send sfdragon a Private Message
I don't know if it was asked, but what was the month and day that gareth dragonsbane planted that tree and the destruction of Orcus's wand of gloomy doom?

why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power


My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
13294 Posts

Posted - 19 Oct 2010 :  18:56:45  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message
Keep in mind the Bloodstone lands were glued onto Ed's Realms - he is not the best authority on that specific region or lore.

GK or RAS would probably know more.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone

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kenjura
Acolyte

3 Posts

Posted - 19 Oct 2010 :  22:55:48  Show Profile  Visit kenjura's Homepage Send kenjura a Private Message
I have a question for Ed. (Sorry if this is already covered or NDA; I couldn't find it)

Why did the Seldarine turn the drow black in the first place?

If it was in retaliation for the atrocities of the Crown Wars, why not punish the Sun Elves, who are clearly as much if not more corrupt. I mean, the killing storm?

If it was just a prick move against Lolth, well...why are the drow "her tribe"? Did she physically birth them? If they're "her" tribe, what authority does he have over them? If all elves are of his tribe, then isn't he to blame, too? Does each subrace of elf have a specific member of the Seldarine that would be equally accountable for their actions, and vice versa, as Lolth/Araushnee to the dark elves?
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Zireael
Master of Realmslore

Poland
1190 Posts

Posted - 20 Oct 2010 :  08:39:52  Show Profile  Visit Zireael's Homepage Send Zireael a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by kenjura

I have a question for Ed. (Sorry if this is already covered or NDA; I couldn't find it)

Why did the Seldarine turn the drow black in the first place?

If it was in retaliation for the atrocities of the Crown Wars, why not punish the Sun Elves, who are clearly as much if not more corrupt. I mean, the killing storm?

If it was just a prick move against Lolth, well...why are the drow "her tribe"? Did she physically birth them? If they're "her" tribe, what authority does he have over them? If all elves are of his tribe, then isn't he to blame, too? Does each subrace of elf have a specific member of the Seldarine that would be equally accountable for their actions, and vice versa, as Lolth/Araushnee to the dark elves?



Good question, although it was covered in FRCS/GHotR/LEoF/what have you. It was retaliation by the gold elves for Crown Wars. Of course they long refused - until the 5th Crown War - to see that their own kin had done much worse (Killing Storm was blamed initially on the Ilythiiri too).

Regarding the second part - yes, each subrace has a specific member of the Seldarine held accountable.
Green/sylvan - Rillifane Rallathil
Green/wild - Fenmarel Mestarine
Gold - Corellon himself
Moon - Sehanine Moonbow
Water - Deep Sashelas

SiNafay Vrinn, the daughter of Lloth, from Ched Nasad!

http://zireael07.wordpress.com/
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Ionik Knight
Learned Scribe

USA
222 Posts

Posted - 20 Oct 2010 :  13:29:16  Show Profile  Visit Ionik Knight's Homepage Send Ionik Knight a Private Message
I though I read somewhere that the Seldarine only zapped the Drow Pantheon, and the Elven Court zapped the the Dark Elves afterwards via High Magic?

Fools to right of them,
Jesters to left of them,
Clowns in front of them
Pun'd and parody'd.
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
13294 Posts

Posted - 20 Oct 2010 :  17:59:04  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message
The ritual that 'zapped the Dark Elves' (they weren't Drow yet) was sanctioned by Corellon and company. Elven High Magic requires a bit of divine intervention, and it is canon that the Seldarine were involved with the ritual and allowed it to proceed.

And they were shamed by it's outcome afterward (also canon): The Aryvandaar killed and subjugated other Elves - the Dark Elves were mostly in trouble for burning forest.

Tree killing.

In the aftermath they forced all warring parties to form a truce. This tells me that the Seldarine themselves had no idea just how far-reaching (extra-planer?) that ritual would be. One could assume part of Corellon's shame was in allowing it, because he had his own gripe against Lolth (his former lover), and they were her 'chosen people'.

Dark Elves being her 'Chosen people' is canon (from Elaine's novel, IIRC), but it is never clearly stated that Araushnee (Lolth) is herself a Dark Elf. She is described as being dark-featured, but in those early times when Araushnee was conceived - probably before the Seldarine ascended form Eladrin stock - we do not know for a fact if the Dark Elves were considered a separate group from common Sylvan (Green) elves. So the assumption is made that Araushnee was of the same genealogy that the Dark Elves sprang from, because of cosmetic similarities, but otherwise the familial connection is merely inferred. She chose them to be 'her people' after her fall from the Seldarine.

In my HB lore for the Elven Netbook, I theorized that the Weave somehow boosted the Descent Ritual beyond its intended parameters (perhaps some evil power meddled?) and caused all Dark Elves everywhere to be cursed (instead of just the intended Ilythiir). I also theorize the curse actually obstructed the Elven ability to derive nourishment from Sunlight (also canon) and turned it against them (having the sunlight cause harm instead of nurturing). In the wake of the curse they were forced to retreat below ground, and not being familiar with subterranean survival many turned to cannibalism (also canon).

And we wonder why most of them are insane.

Sorry for posting all of this in Ed's thread, but I thoroughly researched this and many other questions regarding the Dark Elves for the Elves of Faerūn project. I also had input from several 'elven scholars' who knew far more then I on specific Elven subjects, and we had many debates about what really happened and how it all fell out. So most of my theories in that project are not just my own, but a culmination of the facts derived from those discussions.

Or you could just say that Corellon was being a jerk. Its your Realms, so its your call.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 20 Oct 2010 18:01:07
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Dennis
Great Reader

9933 Posts

Posted - 21 Oct 2010 :  21:38:09  Show Profile Send Dennis a Private Message

Hi, Ed and THO!

Just wondering... Considering that the present one is a success, will there be a new Ed Greenwood Presents _______ series? Perhaps Cormyr? Thay? Aglarond? I was also hoping for old Netheril, but since 'tis pre-SP, I doubt.

Every beginning has an end.
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore

5036 Posts

Posted - 22 Oct 2010 :  20:10:24  Show Profile  Visit The Hooded One's Homepage Send The Hooded One a Private Message
Hi again, all.
dennis, I'm sorry, but what you've asked about possible future "Ed Greenwood Presents" series is something Ed would never be allowed to spill the beans about. I, too, would love to know future Realms fiction plans, but that's the sort of thing publishers like to keep secret until they're ready to raise the trumpets themselves.
(Which, of course, I hope they do soon, to blow all sorts of fanfares.)
love,
THO
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sfdragon
Master of Realmslore

1964 Posts

Posted - 22 Oct 2010 :  22:03:36  Show Profile Send sfdragon a Private Message
well can I ask ED if he had the choice where would he place the next ed greenwood presents: series.... if there was one.

this mind you if he had the choice.

(waits for a right there answer pointing at a map)

why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power


My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234
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orangekun
Acolyte

1 Posts

Posted - 23 Oct 2010 :  02:31:53  Show Profile  Visit orangekun's Homepage Send orangekun a Private Message
Greetings and salutations!

I'll begin bluntly, though that's not to imply the rest of this message won't be blunt as well: I don't know if this would be the place to ask my question, so if anyone could direct me to a more appropriate area on the forums, feel free to point!

My question is thus: Is there a place in the realms where the people speak French?

Most searches I've made on this topic return results about the Forgotten Realms IN french. The few that held any relevance to my question were a bit vague. I'm under the impression that maybe Riatavin would be a french-speaking area, but I haven't got any facts to back that. There's little enough information I've found on Riatavin, let alone the customs and language.
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore

5036 Posts

Posted - 23 Oct 2010 :  03:30:38  Show Profile  Visit The Hooded One's Homepage Send The Hooded One a Private Message
Hi again, all!
orangekun, the answer to your question is: wherever Elminster is in the Realms, when he's with apprentices or former apprentices, one might hear a smattering of French spoken (because El's speaking it, as a sort of personal code, to those he's taught it to). Otherwise, only a handful of individuals have "passed through gates" from our world to the Realms, who speak French, so they'll have no one to speak it with/to, EXCEPT in the same way El is using it (and none of those individuals are recorded in official printed Realmslore, because TSR wanted no "real-world connection" between the Realms and our world, though they later asked Ed to write the Wizards Three series of articles in DRAGON, and allowed him to re-establish that connection).
The Realms MIGHT have had ancient Egyptian and/or Babylonian migration from our world (see Unther and Mulhorand, pre-4th edition), but otherwise, there are NO direct real-world analogues in the Realms (no lands, cultures, or languages). For intelligibility, we collectively "pretend" that Common can be rendered into English, but it's a hand-wave . . .
love,
THO

Edited by - The Hooded One on 23 Oct 2010 03:33:00
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore

5036 Posts

Posted - 23 Oct 2010 :  03:40:19  Show Profile  Visit The Hooded One's Homepage Send The Hooded One a Private Message
And hello again, everyone.
sfdragon, it happens that Ed and I discussed this, some time back, and he didn't have a "favourite next choice." Being Ed, he had several.
One was: Silverymoon, to show us that city as of the 1479 DR era. Another was Suzail, another was Tarmalune, and another was to establish a new "detail focus" in the Realms by focussing on Ormpur.
Of course, that was then, and his opinions may have changed, since. I doubt he'll be at liberty to say anything about what lies ahead for the published Realms, or even hint at it by updating these choices . . . but I've sent your post along to him, for us all to see.
love,
THO
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