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Thauramarth
Senior Scribe

United Kingdom
729 Posts

Posted - 06 Dec 2010 :  23:26:01  Show Profile Send Thauramarth a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

If this has been asked before, forgive me (and someone point me to the answer).

Who is The One, and is there is a reason he choose the Star Mounts for his base of operations?


As far as I know - "The One", aka Doc of New Empyrea, aka Radoc was a character that featured in the R1-R4 series of 1E modules, later recast in I12-The Egg of the Phoenix, by Paul Jacquays. In the module, Doc was a turncoat "good guy", who caught the sticky end of the stick at the end of the module (he was a human dual-classed, in 1E terms, LE (but masqueraiding as LG) 20th-level cleric / 25th-level magic-user), but was allowed to go into exile because, although a traitor, he helped the player characters fight off something even worse.

Paul Jacquays used him in FR5-The Savage Frontier, into which he recycled some other features from Egg of the Phoenix, such as Grintharke, and Gate (in the Spine of the World).

Presumably, he set himself up in the Star Mounts to gather a force to go back to New Empyrea and get his own back. As good a place as any.
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The Red Walker
Great Reader

USA
3563 Posts

Posted - 06 Dec 2010 :  23:47:38  Show Profile Send The Red Walker a Private Message
Korvan, the cook of the rising moon. Can you share what he did that got him banned from Cormyr? Did it involve one of the princesses or another lady as rumored?

A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka

"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -

John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore

5056 Posts

Posted - 07 Dec 2010 :  01:52:20  Show Profile  Visit The Hooded One's Homepage Send The Hooded One a Private Message
Hi again, all. I bring everyone another quick Ed reply, this one to The Red Walker, re. his Korvan question just above. Heeeere's Ed!:


Hi, Red Walker. I can, and your suspicions are correct. Here's the short version: Korvan is the sort of man who always wants what he can't have (what's beyond his reach). He's lusty, and beauty and sophistication (such as a well-dressed, "on public show" noblewoman) smite him hard.
As a lowly Palace cook in Cormyr, he "fell" for several noblewomen attending Palace functions and revels, that he glimpsed from afar. He wanted them. He HAD to have them. And he wanted to be seen with them, to make it into that small circle of laughing, chattering "favorites" among the Palace staff and commoners whom they kept brief social company with, in their busy social mostly-spent-with-other-nobles lives. That is, the favored fashion designers, hairdressers, wits and bon vivants, and so on. Roles he entirely lacked the looks, manners, and smarts to ever attain or keep.
So he sought to conquer them covertly, by working "love potions" into the food he was preparing, herbal concoctions and liquids he could introduce into particular servings, to affect the eaters thereof.
Unfortunately for Korvan, one of the backstreets sources he contacted for these illicit concoctions (in Cormyr, by caselaw and decree, neither food nor wine can be "doctored" with other substances that aren't "only" flavourings or part of standard food preparation, except by priests for holy reasons and herbalists working under the supervision of a recognized healer, or by courtiers obeying certain senior courtiers, like the Royal Magician, Royal Sage, etc.) was both a "trader in shadies" AND a paid informant of the Crown, with very firm instructions to rat out EVERY person, high or low, who so much as hinted at wanting to purchase poisons or mind-altering or harmful substances [[including tamer stuff that "only" induces nausea, poor balance, vomiting or the runs, because all of these can be employed to aid thieves, gamblers, and those seeking to win trade negotiations]]. Korvan was watched, and observed to try to taint some servings with what he later confessed (under War Wizard spell-aided questioning) were "love potions."
The substances he was sold didn't work for the purpose he thought they did, so he didn't actually affect anyone's feelings towards him, or do any harm except subtly alter the tastes of some food. However, the INTENT was there, and members of the Obarskyr family MIGHT have been affected secondhand (e.g. by kissing, or even sharing the food of, someone Korvan had targeted), so Korvan got "a thorough scare" from the War Wizards, plus exile.
Which is how he ended up in Sembia, at various short-lived cooking jobs (the man had a temper, plus a newfound paranoia: thinking undercover Cormyrean agents were watching him), and eventually made his way to Highmoon in Deepingdale.
An unlovely man (lazy, mean to cruel, rude and bullying, and unable to control his lusts), but a good all-around cook.


So saith Ed. Who believes you're the first to really ask about Korvan since a long-ago TSR editor, so the first time any of this has been publicly told.
love,
THO
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore

5056 Posts

Posted - 07 Dec 2010 :  02:01:13  Show Profile  Visit The Hooded One's Homepage Send The Hooded One a Private Message
Hi again, all. Ed just sent another e-mail, containing this answer to Markustay's most recent volley of questions:

Hi, Markustay. Thauramarth has answered your "The One" queries very well. Paul told me Doc chose the Star Mounts because they are relatively inaccessible to raiding bands of goblinkin and/or humans, and have almost all sorts of resources (water and fast-flowing water = power, minerals, copious lumber and edible plants, high meadows where captured livestock can be grazed in hiding, etc.) readily at hand.
No, Filfaeril was never a Chosen. A great woman, a Harper ally, a noble and a very capable queen, who has secrets as yet unrevealed that may never be told - - but not a Chosen. Of Mystra or any other deity.
And as for the authorship of that naughty chapbook . . . now, now. :} We're looking for the name of an IN-REALMS character. Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain!


So saith Ed. Who seems to be back on lore duty! Hurray!
love,
THO
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The Red Walker
Great Reader

USA
3563 Posts

Posted - 07 Dec 2010 :  02:35:49  Show Profile Send The Red Walker a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One

Hi again, all. I bring everyone another quick Ed reply, this one to The Red Walker, re. his Korvan question just above. Heeeere's Ed!:


Hi, Red Walker. I can, and your suspicions are correct. Here's the short version: Korvan is the sort of man who always wants what he can't have (what's beyond his reach). He's lusty, and beauty and sophistication (such as a well-dressed, "on public show" noblewoman) smite him hard.
As a lowly Palace cook in Cormyr, he "fell" for several noblewomen attending Palace functions and revels, that he glimpsed from afar. He wanted them. He HAD to have them. And he wanted to be seen with them, to make it into that small circle of laughing, chattering "favorites" among the Palace staff and commoners whom they kept brief social company with, in their busy social mostly-spent-with-other-nobles lives. That is, the favored fashion designers, hairdressers, wits and bon vivants, and so on. Roles he entirely lacked the looks, manners, and smarts to ever attain or keep.
So he sought to conquer them covertly, by working "love potions" into the food he was preparing, herbal concoctions and liquids he could introduce into particular servings, to affect the eaters thereof.
Unfortunately for Korvan, one of the backstreets sources he contacted for these illicit concoctions (in Cormyr, by caselaw and decree, neither food nor wine can be "doctored" with other substances that aren't "only" flavourings or part of standard food preparation, except by priests for holy reasons and herbalists working under the supervision of a recognized healer, or by courtiers obeying certain senior courtiers, like the Royal Magician, Royal Sage, etc.) was both a "trader in shadies" AND a paid informant of the Crown, with very firm instructions to rat out EVERY person, high or low, who so much as hinted at wanting to purchase poisons or mind-altering or harmful substances [[including tamer stuff that "only" induces nausea, poor balance, vomiting or the runs, because all of these can be employed to aid thieves, gamblers, and those seeking to win trade negotiations]]. Korvan was watched, and observed to try to taint some servings with what he later confessed (under War Wizard spell-aided questioning) were "love potions."
The substances he was sold didn't work for the purpose he thought they did, so he didn't actually affect anyone's feelings towards him, or do any harm except subtly alter the tastes of some food. However, the INTENT was there, and members of the Obarskyr family MIGHT have been affected secondhand (e.g. by kissing, or even sharing the food of, someone Korvan had targeted), so Korvan got "a thorough scare" from the War Wizards, plus exile.
Which is how he ended up in Sembia, at various short-lived cooking jobs (the man had a temper, plus a newfound paranoia: thinking undercover Cormyrean agents were watching him), and eventually made his way to Highmoon in Deepingdale.
An unlovely man (lazy, mean to cruel, rude and bullying, and unable to control his lusts), but a good all-around cook.


So saith Ed. Who believes you're the first to really ask about Korvan since a long-ago TSR editor, so the first time any of this has been publicly told.
love,
THO



Give my Thanks to Ed via your sweet lips Lady Herald! It is certainly awesome to read newly unearthed lore from his works. Do you know who the astute editor was? It makes you think Shandril was lucky to get just a few bruising pinches from him. and did Gorstag not know or was he tat cook to put up with it if he did?

And I can only hope to get half as much info for my prior question about Ander!

A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka

"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -

John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
15724 Posts

Posted - 07 Dec 2010 :  02:44:28  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message
First off, thank you THO and Ed for the timely response.

quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One

Hi, Markustay. Thauramarth has answered your "The One" queries very well. Paul told me Doc chose the Star Mounts because they are relatively inaccessible to raiding bands of goblinkin and/or humans, and have almost all sorts of resources (water and fast-flowing water = power, minerals, copious lumber and edible plants, high meadows where captured livestock can be grazed in hiding, etc.) readily at hand.
I see... I had thought it had something to do with the not-so-Toril nature of the Star Mounts themselves (note an earlier question I posted a week or so ago regarding them and other 'otherworldly' locales in Faerûn).

Weird, because I was looking through some very old D&D modules and had decided that placing Empyrea on the east coast of the Great Ice Sea (Yal Tengri) would be an interesting conversion. Perhaps I should have read through the things, instead of just looking at the pretty maps.

Then again, after the Spellplague, anything is possible. Not ALL new locales may have come from Abeir.

quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One

No, Filfaeril was never a Chosen. A great woman, a Harper ally, a noble and a very capable queen, who has secrets as yet unrevealed that may never be told - - but not a Chosen. Of Mystra or any other deity.
BUT, she IS something 'more' then she lets on, eh? Interesting....

quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One

And as for the authorship of that naughty chapbook . . . now, now. :} We're looking for the name of an IN-REALMS character. Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain!
A quote from a few posts above -
quote:
Originally posted by Bakra

I do believe the Scribes here would find this offer from Ed interesting.


This is a direct quote from the Wotc Novel Book Club from Oct. 4th :

All the Realms are a game table, and we are but PCs. What's your character like?

Ed Greenwood (author of The Sword Never Sleeps): With the approval and connivance of certain TSR staffers, I wrote myself up as a character in the Realms back in 1979, and I’ve been in the Realms ever since. No, I’m not Elminster. (Or Mirt.) “I” live in Waterdeep (at least in the 1350s DR), am in published Realmslore but not at all prominent, and if someone guesses who I am, I’ll reveal more. As in, a tale or three.

Ergo, if Ed is a character in the Realms, then it stands to reason that THAT character (who is Ed) could have written that naughty chapbook.

Not that it is the type of thing such an... AHEM.. professional and esteemed gentleman such as Ed Greenwood would ever care to write, mind you. No way... NOT Ed...



And because this subject came-up at a Birthday party I attended a short while ago, are there any such things as 'edible Undies' (Small clothes) in the Realms? I think if anyone would make such things it would by the Halflings (considering they probably try to make everything taste good... or at least like cheese).

And for some peculiar reason I have a feeling THO already has an answer for this one (Lord knows why I would think that).

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 07 Dec 2010 02:51:35
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Foxhelm
Senior Scribe

Canada
592 Posts

Posted - 07 Dec 2010 :  03:43:30  Show Profile Send Foxhelm a Private Message
Quick Question:

What would be the realms word for a person who scouts out talented, skilled and innovative people? A talent scout but for all classes of goods and services or the different names for different specialties?

Thanks

Ed Greenwood! The Solution... and Cause of all the Realms Problems!
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore

5056 Posts

Posted - 07 Dec 2010 :  15:40:33  Show Profile  Visit The Hooded One's Homepage Send The Hooded One a Private Message
Hi again, all.
Foxhelm, according to my notes taken during Realmsplay with Ed (because we Knights have met more than one of these individuals, over the years) such a headhunter/talent scout is called either a "wiseeye" or a "finding eye" in the Heartlands of the Realms.
Ed confirms this, and adds that the "wiseeye" term is older and Sword Coast-based, and the "finding eye" is newer and most popular in Amn, Westgate, and Sembia. More formally, when such a job description becomes a title (as in a "type" of courtier), the role of talent scout is known as a "lorntavar."


So saith Ed. Wheee, more fast-flowing Realmslore!
love,
THO
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore

5056 Posts

Posted - 07 Dec 2010 :  15:46:02  Show Profile  Visit The Hooded One's Homepage Send The Hooded One a Private Message
And hi yet again, everyone.
Markustay, of COURSE there are edible undies in the Realms. Popular "private revel" wear among certain nobles (or the wealthy elite, in Amn's case) and wealthy social climbers who aspire to nobility, in Waterdeep, Amn, Tethyr, Calimshan, and probably many other places I'm unaware of (as for my preceding post, I'm aware of them because of Realmsplay as a Knight, not formal Ed-writings, published or unpublished). Details, however, are going to have to come from Ed.
Who wants to clarify: his in-Realms character could have written the Filfaeril chapbook - - but didn't. The author of FILFAERIL BOUND AND WILLING had much more to do with Cormyr than Waterdeep. Just trying to steer guessing scribes in the right directions . . .
love,
THO
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore

5056 Posts

Posted - 07 Dec 2010 :  15:52:15  Show Profile  Visit The Hooded One's Homepage Send The Hooded One a Private Message
. . . And I'm back for more.
Brimstone, Ed's glad you liked the Silent Sail article. He always favours intrigue ("everyone loves a mystery") over simple warfare confrontations, in D&D play.
Ed has a new handful of articles ready, but has to talk again (with Steve Winter, the editor) before proceeding with more, because of course artwork and articles have to be coordinated.
love,
THO
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
36779 Posts

Posted - 07 Dec 2010 :  16:10:41  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One

Hi again, all.
Foxhelm, according to my notes taken during Realmsplay with Ed (because we Knights have met more than one of these individuals, over the years) such a headhunter/talent scout is called either a "wiseeye" or a "finding eye" in the Heartlands of the Realms.
Ed confirms this, and adds that the "wiseeye" term is older and Sword Coast-based, and the "finding eye" is newer and most popular in Amn, Westgate, and Sembia. More formally, when such a job description becomes a title (as in a "type" of courtier), the role of talent scout is known as a "lorntavar."


So saith Ed. Wheee, more fast-flowing Realmslore!
love,
THO



Wiseeye is close to wise guy, in pronunciation... Which makes me wonder what the Realms phrase/word for that would be. I speak of course of the smart aleck or smartass sense of the word, not the organized crime sense of the word.

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Foxhelm
Senior Scribe

Canada
592 Posts

Posted - 07 Dec 2010 :  16:16:40  Show Profile Send Foxhelm a Private Message
Well, might as well state why I was looking up talent scout. Looking for a fancy priest title for a cleric of Finder. I can imagine the clergy inventing and reinventing titles, but one of the aspects of the church is to find an artist/talent and give them a venue so they can sink or swim.

So Headhunter/Talent Scout might be a term favoured by the church.

Thanks.

Ed Greenwood! The Solution... and Cause of all the Realms Problems!
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Blueblade
Senior Scribe

USA
804 Posts

Posted - 07 Dec 2010 :  16:20:11  Show Profile  Visit Blueblade's Homepage Send Blueblade a Private Message
I can't see modern real-world terms being used by a church in the Realms. I'd coin a title having something to do with "seeker," myself. Heartseeker?
And Wooly, I think Ed recently provided a Realms term for a smartass/smart aleck, somewhere here at the Keep, or someone quoted him secondhand . . .
Arggh. Getting old, forgetting things.
(Heh. Wonder how ED feels, considering all he has stuffed into his head.)

BB
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High

Australia
31701 Posts

Posted - 07 Dec 2010 :  16:29:52  Show Profile Send The Sage a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One

Hi again, all.
Foxhelm, according to my notes taken during Realmsplay with Ed (because we Knights have met more than one of these individuals, over the years) such a headhunter/talent scout is called either a "wiseeye" or a "finding eye" in the Heartlands of the Realms.
Ed confirms this, and adds that the "wiseeye" term is older and Sword Coast-based, and the "finding eye" is newer and most popular in Amn, Westgate, and Sembia. More formally, when such a job description becomes a title (as in a "type" of courtier), the role of talent scout is known as a "lorntavar."


So saith Ed. Wheee, more fast-flowing Realmslore!
love,
THO



Wiseeye is close to wise guy, in pronunciation... Which makes me wonder what the Realms phrase/word for that would be. I speak of course of the smart aleck or smartass sense of the word, not the organized crime sense of the word.

Actually, Ed, I'd be interested in the "organised crime sense of the word" -- if it is applicable in the Realms, as it'd tie into something I'm thinking about at the moment.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)

"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood

Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage
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Asharak
Learned Scribe

France
267 Posts

Posted - 07 Dec 2010 :  18:07:48  Show Profile Send Asharak a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Asharak

1346: Naval Battle of Lisen Sands.

Does anyone know more about this?

That's occur on the River Lis, but what else?

Who are the fighters?



I ask this in another thread and the scribes send me here...

"Soyez réalistes : demandez l'impossible"

Sorry for my English... it's not my native tongue.
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Baleful Avatar
Learned Scribe

Canada
161 Posts

Posted - 07 Dec 2010 :  18:18:00  Show Profile  Visit Baleful Avatar's Homepage Send Baleful Avatar a Private Message
I remember Ed saying something about it in an "Elminster's Everwinking Eye" column in Polyhedron. He covered Mulmaster in issues 64 through 68 (I think), but the River Lis fighting was mentioned in a brief news and rumors (the "Current Clack" Ed included at the end of some EEE columns, and may have been in a different Poly issue entirely.
Anyone who owns all of the Poly issues able to help?
BA
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
36779 Posts

Posted - 07 Dec 2010 :  18:28:19  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message
It was suggested that I bring this idea to Ed...

Hypothetically speaking, what do you think would happen if a half-dragon descended from Thauglor popped up in Cormyr? If this half-dragon tried to make a claim on the throne, how would everyone (commoners, nobles, royals, Vangey) react? Even more, what if this half-dragon was descended from Thauglor on one side and Azoun IV on the other?

Or how about a descendant of Iliphar?

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Mr_Miscellany
Senior Scribe

545 Posts

Posted - 07 Dec 2010 :  19:13:19  Show Profile Send Mr_Miscellany a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

Hypothetically speaking, what do you think would happen if...
Would like to second these questions, as they are awesome (i.e., total fodder for campaign and story ideas).
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Zireael
Master of Realmslore

Poland
1190 Posts

Posted - 07 Dec 2010 :  19:15:20  Show Profile  Visit Zireael's Homepage Send Zireael a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

It was suggested that I bring this idea to Ed...

Hypothetically speaking, what do you think would happen if a half-dragon descended from Thauglor popped up in Cormyr? If this half-dragon tried to make a claim on the throne, how would everyone (commoners, nobles, royals, Vangey) react? Even more, what if this half-dragon was descended from Thauglor on one side and Azoun IV on the other?

Or how about a descendant of Iliphar?



The idea is so awesome that I'm going to write that guy up!

There is a descendant of Iliphar (or rather, House Amaratharr, which he was a part of) in the canon Realms - Djalia Amaratharr from F&P.

That reminds me - any chance of Ed revealing anything more about that House or about the children of Alea Dahast and Baerauble Etharr?

SiNafay Vrinn, the daughter of Lloth, from Ched Nasad!

http://zireael07.wordpress.com/
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
36779 Posts

Posted - 07 Dec 2010 :  19:44:45  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Mr_Miscellany

quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

Hypothetically speaking, what do you think would happen if...
Would like to second these questions, as they are awesome (i.e., total fodder for campaign and story ideas).




Except for the Iliphar descendant, I originally suggested these to someone who was wanting to create a situation in Cormyr.

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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High

Australia
31701 Posts

Posted - 08 Dec 2010 :  00:28:17  Show Profile Send The Sage a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

It was suggested that I bring this idea to Ed...

Hypothetically speaking, what do you think would happen if a half-dragon descended from Thauglor popped up in Cormyr? If this half-dragon tried to make a claim on the throne, how would everyone (commoners, nobles, royals, Vangey) react? Even more, what if this half-dragon was descended from Thauglor on one side and Azoun IV on the other?

Or how about a descendant of Iliphar?

Hmmm.

Ed, as an addendum to this, I'd like to nail down a particular time-period to the Iliphar query. I'm thinking this would be an interesting circumstance for when Iliphar is ruling over Cormanthir. Any thoughts on that?

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)

"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood

Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High

Australia
31701 Posts

Posted - 08 Dec 2010 :  00:33:10  Show Profile Send The Sage a Private Message
Also, Ed, while I'm tapping you on the virtual shoulder, can I ask that you consider the following brief exchanges from the "Elminster Must Die--Hit or Miss?" scroll:-
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage

quote:
Originally posted by dennis

quote:
Originally posted by Arik

quote:
dennis
[Elminster] nor Storm couldn't cast powerful spells to turn himself into a lich, a vampire, or whatever form or undeath to continue existing, while the "possession" required but a little magic Storm could readily cast. Not to mention, it would make him a little less conspicuous to his enemies.
Okay, so now I've spoilered it all up, perhaps I'll forget this thread by the time the entire (first) trilogy is available for me to read.

But question:
El can't lich himself? Why not? He's eminently qualified. Is this some downside to being (ex-)Chosen? Don't answer if it's an explicit story component and some perfectly plausible story explanation is given.



Casting a very simple spell alone (except from those ready-to-use wands) makes him mad. How much more a series of complicated spells required for liching?!

Indeed. Though, it's important to note that just as there are different kinds of liches [Larloch and Druth Daern are examples] there are different kinds of lichnee processes. But there are many other practical and personal reasons stopping mages from turning themselves into animated corpses.

I'd actually pose this question to Ed. I'm very curious to hear what his response would be.

And:-
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage

As for the baelnorn path... Hmmm. I would see baelnorns as "good elven undead" only with regard to the purpose of their creation.

As noted in Cormanthyr -- "Baelnorn, the willing undead elves, are the elven equivalent of liches, though they are hardly as disturbingly “wrong” as the corrupt undead and they do not project the fearsome aura of those wicked creatures."

...

They are the elven equivalent of a lich... but, at the same time, are also something more that is entirely, and specifically... elven.

So, maybe, El's status as a Chosen of Mystra [and being "super-human" for lack of a better term] would, ultimately, impact upon his baelnorn-like conversion. Maybe the powers of Mystra coursing through his veins would protect him from the harsher aspects involved in the lichnee process. Resulting in, perhaps, a super-human baelnorn-like entity.

Or it could simply be a case of the Mystra-derived immortality being extended in ways that only a Chosen can understand. So instead of considering the path of lichdom for El, we should think about how his existing element of immortality can be re-worked to allow a lichdom-like state -- both before and after the Spellplague.
Also:-
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage

Actually, thinking on this further [and after digesting a rather unhealthy lunch], I'm remembering back to something Ed said several years ago about Larloch possibly creating his own unique and "better" lichdom spells and processes.

I'm wondering, now, whether this isn't also something that Elminster could try -- only the process might involve transforming the former Sage of Shadowdale into something akin to a human-baelnorn.
As a hypothetical, what would be your thoughts on this? I'm simply curious.

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Ayrik
Great Reader

Canada
7966 Posts

Posted - 08 Dec 2010 :  00:42:32  Show Profile Send Ayrik a Private Message
There's a little more talk about this unliving "baelminster" creature in the same scroll, starting at about the middle of this page.

[/Ayrik]
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore

5056 Posts

Posted - 08 Dec 2010 :  03:01:27  Show Profile  Visit The Hooded One's Homepage Send The Hooded One a Private Message
Hi again, all. I bring you Ed's response to Wooly Rupert, re. this: "It was suggested that I bring this idea to Ed...
Hypothetically speaking, what do you think would happen if a half-dragon descended from Thauglor popped up in Cormyr? If this half-dragon tried to make a claim on the throne, how would everyone (commoners, nobles, royals, Vangey) react? Even more, what if this half-dragon was descended from Thauglor on one side and Azoun IV on the other?
Or how about a descendant of Iliphar?"
Ed replies:


Hi, Wooly. I have to be careful what I say here, due to two outstanding NDAs (which, yes, should lead everyone to suspect that this is a topic that has already been considered amongst Realms creatives). The short answer to all four of these queries is that reactions would be 'all over the map,' so to speak.
Vangey (or his successors) are primarily concerned with the stability of the Dragon Throne. HOW they will guard the throne depends on who it is doing the guarding (Vangey or Caladnei or . . .), what the situation is in the kingdom, and what events unfold.
There will always be nobles who will fiercely oppose any non-pureblood-human vying for the throne, and fight one who seizes it. Then again, there will always be nobles who seize on any pretender, potential usurper, or rival claimant to the current holder of the throne, and advance this challenge to the reigning monarch or regent, for reasons of personal gain, or to "reform" the realm, or for other reasons specific to them.
Individual Obarskyrs will have a wide variety of reactions to any rival/newcomer (but will tend to resist "bastards" in favor of the kin they know, except as pawns/allies against specific kin they hate or fear, because there are SO many bastards around already, and they would rather support and work with bastards they know well, and personally like. War Wizards and many senior-in-years nobles will react in the same way, and for the same reasons . . . but it's important to remember that there are no "class-wide" reactions to claimants, half-dragon or otherwise.
Or to put it another way, not all commoners will think X, all nobles think X or Y, and all royals think X or Y or Z. Everyone will react individually.
If any stereotypes about Cormyreans can be advanced, there will be general prejudices like this: we prefer humans we know, and know to be Cormyrean born and bred and resident, over humans who "come out of nowhere" or are known to have been far away from Cormyr for some time. We will prefer humans over non-humans (such as elves; many oldblood families, noble or common, believe "Cormyr" is a human land wrested from elves who should never be allowed to return to anything resembling power, locally) and we will prefer human-like, "civilized" non-humans (elves, halflings, gnomes, dwarves) over known-to-be-dangerous races (half-orcs, orcs and goblins, etc.), and those "evil folk" over "monstrous half-breeds" (shapechangers, lizardfolk-like half-dragons with scales and tails and other obvious "this ain't a human" features.
That isn't to say that certain nobles and wizards of Cormyr (including War Wizards) won't be fascinated by a half-dragon, and their potential power, or with elves of the lineage of Iliphar (and more than one such individual is known to exist, in Cormyr, though the Royal Court isn't certain of all of their identities or whereabouts) . . . but the general bulk of the populace is going to want a human king or queen, preferably of the House of Obarskyr or failing that bastard offspring of the traceable blood of the Obarskyrs or perhaps Baerauble, and failing that of one of the oldblood families (and at this point, of course, the fierce struggle over WHICH ruling family would erupt, probably into open civil war).
Yet Cormyr will always be a place where bastards and other throne claimants wait in the wings, supported by this or that cabal of nobles and watched by the War Wizards and various Crown agents.
A half-dragon claimant who can claim AND PROVE (to most who care) descent from both Thauglor and Azoun IV would have a stronger claim (and public support) than any other half-dragon, but by no means more than the scores to hundreds of human Cormyreans who can claim and prove Azoun IV's involvement in their ancestry, or Obarskyr blood from other monarchs (or princes, who at the time of the dalliances hadn't yet come to the throne).
In fact, what keeps Cormyr from erupting in civil strife often is the counterbalance between SO MANY possible (weak) claimants. Eliminate all fullblood Obarskyrs, and all of those claimants come into play, yes, but then it becomes a game of "who can stay alive?" among the claimants.
And remember: a half-dragon would probably still have a claim that was weaker in public support than, say, a certain ghazneth with the last name Cormaeril . . .


So saith Ed. Who has talked at great length with TSR and later WotC designers about such matters, I happen to know (because I eavesdrop shamelessly when it suits me to do so).
love,
THO
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore

5056 Posts

Posted - 08 Dec 2010 :  03:07:25  Show Profile  Visit The Hooded One's Homepage Send The Hooded One a Private Message
And hello again, everyone.
Sage, Ed dropped me a quick e-mail in response to your lichdom queries, and here it is:


Hoo boy. Thick NDAs looming all around on this one, but I can go far enough to say: Elminster is well aware of (and possesses the notes, spells, and necessary "ingredients"/apparatus for) many methods of attaining lichnee status, that he's acquired and studied over the years. Thus far he has actively dabbled in none of them, and that's due in part to the silver fire and active Weave flows and use not mixing well with lichdom. Which is where I'd best stop spilling beans for now . . .


So saith Ed. Who has obviously worked all of this out and communicated it with designers working at TSR (and possibly, later, at WotC), but just as obviously isn't free to share much more.
Yet.
Heh-heh.
love,
THO
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore

5056 Posts

Posted - 08 Dec 2010 :  03:11:49  Show Profile  Visit The Hooded One's Homepage Send The Hooded One a Private Message
Oh, and my inbox also contained some brief passages in e-mails from Ed that permit me to say:
Red Walker, Ed hears your hint re. Ander loud and clear. Time is the treasure . . .
Mr_Miscellany, there are indeed "ghost stories" told among War Wizards about predecessors in their ranks. Again, it may take some time before Ed can get to imparting any of them . . .
love,
THO
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Ayrik
Great Reader

Canada
7966 Posts

Posted - 08 Dec 2010 :  03:57:06  Show Profile Send Ayrik a Private Message
Thank you for your response to the liching question, THO/Ed.

Silverfire and liching are incompatible, eh? And liches are not sustained by the Weave, eh? I won't pressure you to say any more about this "thick with NDAs topic", you have answered the question already and have other queries pressing upon you.

I've attempted to merge all further discussion about the topic into this scroll, for those who are interested.

[/Ayrik]

Edited by - Ayrik on 08 Dec 2010 04:15:08
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The Red Walker
Great Reader

USA
3563 Posts

Posted - 08 Dec 2010 :  04:34:33  Show Profile Send The Red Walker a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One

Oh, and my inbox also contained some brief passages in e-mails from Ed that permit me to say:
Red Walker, Ed hears your hint re. Ander loud and clear. Time is the treasure . . .
Mr_Miscellany, there are indeed "ghost stories" told among War Wizards about predecessors in their ranks. Again, it may take some time before Ed can get to imparting any of them . . .
love,
THO



My thanks once again...and that was honestly more of a stream of thought comment, rather than a hint

The great answer about Korvan makes me wonder just how much Ed had worked up for Spellfire than got published and could lead to endless questions. In your opinion Lady, is there enough to have done another novel or been a trilogy out of the Spellfire works?

The one that burns brightest is the bit where The Shadowsil has taken Shandril to the dracolich and is questioning her. She seems to think/ hope that she is a runaway princess Alusair. Was she looking based on a rumor or had Alusair at that time indeed "run off"? If so can anything be shared about her little adventure?

A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka

"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -

John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963

Edited by - The Red Walker on 08 Dec 2010 04:36:33
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High

Australia
31701 Posts

Posted - 08 Dec 2010 :  04:55:24  Show Profile Send The Sage a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One

And hello again, everyone.
Sage, Ed dropped me a quick e-mail in response to your lichdom queries, and here it is:


Hoo boy. Thick NDAs looming all around on this one, but I can go far enough to say: Elminster is well aware of (and possesses the notes, spells, and necessary "ingredients"/apparatus for) many methods of attaining lichnee status, that he's acquired and studied over the years. Thus far he has actively dabbled in none of them, and that's due in part to the silver fire and active Weave flows and use not mixing well with lichdom. Which is where I'd best stop spilling beans for now . . .


So saith Ed. Who has obviously worked all of this out and communicated it with designers working at TSR (and possibly, later, at WotC), but just as obviously isn't free to share much more.
Yet.
Heh-heh.
love,
THO

Ah. Very interesting. Thank you Ed, and the lovely Lady Hooded One.

I've an additional query [not tied to this particular piece of lore], but I want to keep it private for the time being. So expect an email shortly.

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-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

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"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood

Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
36779 Posts

Posted - 08 Dec 2010 :  05:52:54  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One

Hi again, all. I bring you Ed's response to Wooly Rupert, re. this: "It was suggested that I bring this idea to Ed...
Hypothetically speaking, what do you think would happen if a half-dragon descended from Thauglor popped up in Cormyr? If this half-dragon tried to make a claim on the throne, how would everyone (commoners, nobles, royals, Vangey) react? Even more, what if this half-dragon was descended from Thauglor on one side and Azoun IV on the other?
Or how about a descendant of Iliphar?"
Ed replies:


Hi, Wooly. I have to be careful what I say here, due to two outstanding NDAs (which, yes, should lead everyone to suspect that this is a topic that has already been considered amongst Realms creatives). The short answer to all four of these queries is that reactions would be 'all over the map,' so to speak.
Vangey (or his successors) are primarily concerned with the stability of the Dragon Throne. HOW they will guard the throne depends on who it is doing the guarding (Vangey or Caladnei or . . .), what the situation is in the kingdom, and what events unfold.
There will always be nobles who will fiercely oppose any non-pureblood-human vying for the throne, and fight one who seizes it. Then again, there will always be nobles who seize on any pretender, potential usurper, or rival claimant to the current holder of the throne, and advance this challenge to the reigning monarch or regent, for reasons of personal gain, or to "reform" the realm, or for other reasons specific to them.
Individual Obarskyrs will have a wide variety of reactions to any rival/newcomer (but will tend to resist "bastards" in favor of the kin they know, except as pawns/allies against specific kin they hate or fear, because there are SO many bastards around already, and they would rather support and work with bastards they know well, and personally like. War Wizards and many senior-in-years nobles will react in the same way, and for the same reasons . . . but it's important to remember that there are no "class-wide" reactions to claimants, half-dragon or otherwise.
Or to put it another way, not all commoners will think X, all nobles think X or Y, and all royals think X or Y or Z. Everyone will react individually.
If any stereotypes about Cormyreans can be advanced, there will be general prejudices like this: we prefer humans we know, and know to be Cormyrean born and bred and resident, over humans who "come out of nowhere" or are known to have been far away from Cormyr for some time. We will prefer humans over non-humans (such as elves; many oldblood families, noble or common, believe "Cormyr" is a human land wrested from elves who should never be allowed to return to anything resembling power, locally) and we will prefer human-like, "civilized" non-humans (elves, halflings, gnomes, dwarves) over known-to-be-dangerous races (half-orcs, orcs and goblins, etc.), and those "evil folk" over "monstrous half-breeds" (shapechangers, lizardfolk-like half-dragons with scales and tails and other obvious "this ain't a human" features.
That isn't to say that certain nobles and wizards of Cormyr (including War Wizards) won't be fascinated by a half-dragon, and their potential power, or with elves of the lineage of Iliphar (and more than one such individual is known to exist, in Cormyr, though the Royal Court isn't certain of all of their identities or whereabouts) . . . but the general bulk of the populace is going to want a human king or queen, preferably of the House of Obarskyr or failing that bastard offspring of the traceable blood of the Obarskyrs or perhaps Baerauble, and failing that of one of the oldblood families (and at this point, of course, the fierce struggle over WHICH ruling family would erupt, probably into open civil war).
Yet Cormyr will always be a place where bastards and other throne claimants wait in the wings, supported by this or that cabal of nobles and watched by the War Wizards and various Crown agents.
A half-dragon claimant who can claim AND PROVE (to most who care) descent from both Thauglor and Azoun IV would have a stronger claim (and public support) than any other half-dragon, but by no means more than the scores to hundreds of human Cormyreans who can claim and prove Azoun IV's involvement in their ancestry, or Obarskyr blood from other monarchs (or princes, who at the time of the dalliances hadn't yet come to the throne).
In fact, what keeps Cormyr from erupting in civil strife often is the counterbalance between SO MANY possible (weak) claimants. Eliminate all fullblood Obarskyrs, and all of those claimants come into play, yes, but then it becomes a game of "who can stay alive?" among the claimants.
And remember: a half-dragon would probably still have a claim that was weaker in public support than, say, a certain ghazneth with the last name Cormaeril . . .


So saith Ed. Who has talked at great length with TSR and later WotC designers about such matters, I happen to know (because I eavesdrop shamelessly when it suits me to do so).
love,
THO



Hmm, not quite what I expected... But still interesting!

As always, thanks for the reply!

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