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The Simbul
Learned Scribe

173 Posts

Posted - 08 Aug 2010 :  15:57:05  Show Profile  Visit The Simbul's Homepage Send The Simbul a Private Message
I finished ELMINSTER MUST DIE many days ago, with fate permitting me to have acquired it nigh unto a tenday earlier. Without revealing any secrets here I shall say I enjoyed it immensely, and overwhelmingly recommend it to all fans of the Old Sage and Saer Greenwood's characters in general. I had not realized how much I had missed so many of these characters, much like long lost old friends, and it was heartening to see and hear of them again...in fact many more than I had anticipated or could have hoped for!

Needless to say I have many, many questions to ask and many more (largely positive) comments to deliver. However I will wait until after my second read-through (that being the more slow, deliberate, and note-taking reading) and after I have had a chance to discuss extensively on the Book Club discussion threads here, so as not to burden this thread with too many spoilers to dodge and intense side discussions.

I do however have one question, which does not contain or imply much of a spoiler, beyond what is revealed in the sample chapters, book cover flap, and the upcoming entries in the series

But feel free to skip O Realms readers if any of ye are at all concerned it might imply a SPOILER


In one of your interviews shortly after the launch of 4E Forgotten Realms, you talked about how Living Forgotten Realms adventures could tie into the novels and that the actions of the players could influence their later outcomes.

Would it be possible that there might be a Living Forgotten Realms adventure arc wherein the players could aid Elminster and/or his allies in their current efforts--specifically in the gathering of magic items to cure or stave off the conditions that afflict him and his lady?

More specifically, an adventure that you could be directly involved with or assist in the writing, or that might tie into future parts of the Sage of Shadowdale series? One of the reasons I suggest it for the Living Forgotten Realms (or even an adventure series in DUNGEON) is because, unlike a home campaign, the inflow of treasure and magic items is much more tightly monitored in the RPGA or a published adventure. As such, if Players were to yield some of their magical "gewjaws" or sacrifice all or part of a treasure parcel to aid the Old Sage then it would be more significant. Likewise, because the 4E system has things like story rewards as opposed to just treasure (i.e. opening new quest lines, friendship with NPC allies, etc) this could be a sort of trade off. As in the heroes aid Elminster today, and in turn it opens up future adventures where Elminster asks them to retrieve some magical cache he knows of but is "walled from his failing strength or hidden from his fading senses". Or perhaps, much later in the epic tier gain some off-screen aid from the Old Sage in some far-spread war or conflict in an adventure arc (Netheril, or the Zhentarim as an example), or possibly the chance to have him alongside them as an adventuring companion for a specific and epic battle against a certain foe or another of the Realms.

After reading the recent Hero Battle: Elminster article it has shown exactly how badly things could go if the Old Sage does fail in his efforts, and one of the themes in ELMINSTER MUST DIE is how there are too few people left who can see what needs to be done and have the will to rise to the challenge. I for one (and my characters for two) am willing to do everything possible to prevent such dire fate for the Old Sage and his loved ones...and I imagine most true Forgotten Realms players are fiercely in the same boat. Therefore I exult and implore you to please consider or perhaps take up such an endeavor, assuming such is not already in the works and you believe it may have merit.

Edited by - The Simbul on 08 Aug 2010 16:06:32
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader

USA
3071 Posts

Posted - 08 Aug 2010 :  17:36:22  Show Profile Send Ashe Ravenheart a Private Message
While we wait for Ed's return from the Great Gaming Con:

I'd check with Gomez (or GomezToo as he's known on the WotC boards). He's a big part of the Living Realms and might be able to give you an idea on future storylines. Although, with the recent announcement that the Living Realms are no longer considered canon, I doubt they still tie in with the novels or influence them.

I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.

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gomez
Learned Scribe

Netherlands
254 Posts

Posted - 08 Aug 2010 :  20:35:27  Show Profile  Visit gomez's Homepage Send gomez a Private Message
I have no real idea of future arcs at the moment.
Hopefully, with a week or so I know whether I will stay part of LFR (as an editor), and possibly any future projects.
I can tell that in the new setup of LFR, it will generally not affect novels and such, barring 'special' projects.
Personally, I'd love to work with Ed on a series that involve Elminster (or Storm).
I just don't know if there will be possibilities. I expect it would need some legwork to arrange.
Some of the Dalelands adventures do imply that Elminster has some influence on some of the plots - not directly, but through intermediaries 'instructing' adventurers.

I agree with The Simbul: I do have some PCs (one in particular) who would aid the Old Sage and be willing to fight for the cause, and there are likely more. It is diheartening to hear that Elm doens't believe there are any of those heroes - I think it would be interesting to work on a story that would help prove (to him) that he is wrong, and that he is not alone in the fight.
If not for LFR, maybe DDI?

I hope Ed can say more on it, but I fear not...

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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader

USA
3071 Posts

Posted - 08 Aug 2010 :  20:52:00  Show Profile Send Ashe Ravenheart a Private Message
Heh... I know of a Chosen ranger of Mielikki (and Arms-Major of Myth Drannor) that would help as much as he could as well.

I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.

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MaskedOne
Seeker

42 Posts

Posted - 09 Aug 2010 :  04:51:46  Show Profile Send MaskedOne a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Snowblood

for those of us still waiting for the novel please alert us to spoilers alerts first before posting.........



Sorry, for the late reply. Question is now hidden by spoiler tags which I should probably have done last night but it's been quite some time since providing spoilers was an issue for me. I'd have done it earlier but I can't easily test certain codes from a phone and wanted to make certain the code would work as intended.
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Sian
Senior Scribe

Denmark
596 Posts

Posted - 09 Aug 2010 :  10:41:29  Show Profile  Visit Sian's Homepage  Click to see Sian's MSN Messenger address Send Sian a Private Message
quick question which i'm relatively certain THO can answer without Ed

how do people (non-magicians) move from Waterdeep to Skullport and the other way around? i'm guessing that they're not battling the way through Undermountain but?

what happened to the queen? she's much more hysterical than usual
She's a women, it happens once a month
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Sill Alias
Senior Scribe

Kazakhstan
588 Posts

Posted - 09 Aug 2010 :  17:45:09  Show Profile  Visit Sill Alias's Homepage Send Sill Alias a Private Message
Dear Lay THO. All the answers were very interesting as the questions that were answered. I planted a long time ago a question about male priests of Lolth and official 3.5 lore on them. I still patiently wait for answer that will come from the heap.

You can hear many tales from many mouths. The most difficult is to know which of them are not lies. - Sill Alias

"May your harp be unstrung, your dreams die and all your songs be unsung." - curse of the harper, The Code of the Harpers 2 ed.
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sfdragon
Master of Realmslore

1969 Posts

Posted - 09 Aug 2010 :  23:36:05  Show Profile Send sfdragon a Private Message
I finished El must die.


It wouldn't be the realms with out the moneylender.......


now only if Alusair had a body.


a very good book



Mod Edit: Added SPOILER tags. Scribes will have to highlight post to read the relevant bits.

why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power


My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234

Edited by - The Sage on 10 Aug 2010 01:45:54
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader

USA
3071 Posts

Posted - 09 Aug 2010 :  23:43:18  Show Profile Send Ashe Ravenheart a Private Message
SPOILERS SF! SPOILERS!

I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.

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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31687 Posts

Posted - 10 Aug 2010 :  01:47:55  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message
Yes, indeed.

I'd like to reinforce the statement made by Ashe above. Scribes, if you're intending on discussing plot points or various tidbits from Elminster Must Die, do remember to use the SPOILER tags in HTML, or place warnings in your post before you type any SPOILER info from the book.

Thank you.

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The Red Walker
Great Reader

USA
3523 Posts

Posted - 10 Aug 2010 :  03:43:02  Show Profile  Send The Red Walker a Yahoo! Message Send The Red Walker a Private Message
Finished El Must Die!


I can't remember a time when Wished so hard for just on more Stlarnig page!!

Posible Spoiler...








At one point Storm and El where talking about other weapons they had forged then had to destroy later.....any of those that aren't NDA? I know it's unlikley, but what the heck. I gotta ask anyways!


A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka

"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -

John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963

Edited by - The Red Walker on 10 Aug 2010 19:04:08
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
13403 Posts

Posted - 10 Aug 2010 :  19:10:39  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage

I'd like to reinforce the statement made by Ashe above. Scribes, if you're intending on discussing plot points or various tidbits from Elminster Must Die, do remember to use the SPOILER tags in HTML, or place warnings in your post before you type any SPOILER info from the book.
Which of course almost never work, because curiosity will always kill the cat.

Ed, any info at all you can give me about the Goblin city/kingdom featured in the Death of the Dragon novel?

They seem quite a bit more advanced then 'modern' goblins, and have a 'Romanesque' feel about them (Bronze armor, phalanxes, etc). Just wondering what kingdom Grodd (sp?) was part of, and where and when it was located? Could it be possible it was on Abeir, or from a time when both worlds were one?

I'm only asking because it seems from the Cormyr novel, the Forest kingdom went directly from Dragon-rule, to Elf-rule, to human-rule, which would preclude the dragon-rule era being a remnant from the Dawn Ages whence dragons and Giants reigned supreme.

As an addendum to this question, wherein do most of the humanoid kingdoms fit-in? Was there a period after the Crown wars, when Elven power fell-off, and humanoids briefly held sway in the north? Other sources make it seem the world went directly from Draconic 'hands' to Elven ones, but there must have been a period of a few thousand years when barbarism was the rule of the day.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 10 Aug 2010 19:13:25
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore

5037 Posts

Posted - 11 Aug 2010 :  16:59:49  Show Profile  Visit The Hooded One's Homepage Send The Hooded One a Private Message
Hi again, all!
Well, I'm back from GenCon, not long after Ed (who stopped one of his aging minivans in his driveway late, late last night, weary but happy). I only managed to taste the show late on Saturday and for part of Sunday, and hooked up with Ed only by phone Monday just before he left to start the drive home.
Reports from others at the show: ELMINSTER MUST DIE! well-received, Spin A Yarn was as well-attended as usual despite the ticket price this year, and Ed painted faces at the KQ booth. The Drizzt/Elminster reception was good, relaxed fun; the Celebrity Game Session was a general giggle shared by all; and some buzz was generated by Ed, James Wyatt, and Mike Mearls having a mysterious, energetic (in a good way) discussion/meeting on the platform atop the WotC booth Sunday morning . . .
As far as Realmslore, nothing to add yet except this tiny response from me to Foxhelm, preceding Ed's proper reply to the more extensive questions Foxhelm posed: "Are there enchanted wigs with mystical powers?"
This much I can say, without Ed's help: Yes indeed. One of my characters owns one. (Head wig, not merkin, though I can confirm that both sorts of wigs exist in enchanted versions in the Realms. How can I confirm? Ah, that would be telling, wouldn't it? )
More when I can wake Ed up and get some lore responses...
love to all,
THO
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader

USA
3071 Posts

Posted - 11 Aug 2010 :  17:06:11  Show Profile Send Ashe Ravenheart a Private Message
By the way, just finished this interview with Ed over at the Fantasy Book Critic blog. Once again, superb!

I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.

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The Red Walker
Great Reader

USA
3523 Posts

Posted - 11 Aug 2010 :  18:36:36  Show Profile  Send The Red Walker a Yahoo! Message Send The Red Walker a Private Message
THO,

Can you tell me what published work Ed did that was set in Middle-Earth.

Thanks!

A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka

"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -

John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore

5037 Posts

Posted - 12 Aug 2010 :  00:21:35  Show Profile  Visit The Hooded One's Homepage Send The Hooded One a Private Message
Hi again, all.
Red Walker: certainly. Years and years ago, Ed wrote one of the chapters of the early computer game THE TWO TOWERS (can't remember if the company was Interplay or Black Isle).
On another occasion, he wrote some set-in-Middle-Earth short stories (background "sketches" of supporting characters) for a movie license for the LORD OF THE RINGS that was never acted upon (and lapsed). [Of course, these tales were never published anywhere, and as far as I know, there's no legal way they now can be.]
love.
THO
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
29798 Posts

Posted - 12 Aug 2010 :  00:50:15  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One


This much I can say, without Ed's help: Yes indeed. One of my characters owns one. (Head wig, not merkin, though I can confirm that both sorts of wigs exist in enchanted versions in the Realms. How can I confirm? Ah, that would be telling, wouldn't it? )


An enchanted merkin? Wow... I wasn't even familiar with the concepts of merkins, and now you've got me pondering magical ones!

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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore

5037 Posts

Posted - 12 Aug 2010 :  01:06:35  Show Profile  Visit The Hooded One's Homepage Send The Hooded One a Private Message
Heh. Lie back on the handy cushions, enticing hamster, and let us ponder together...
love,
THO
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31687 Posts

Posted - 12 Aug 2010 :  01:30:04  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One

Heh. Lie back on the handy cushions, enticing hamster, and let us ponder together...
love,
THO

You know, those are my cushions!

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)

"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood

Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage
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The Red Walker
Great Reader

USA
3523 Posts

Posted - 12 Aug 2010 :  01:52:57  Show Profile  Send The Red Walker a Yahoo! Message Send The Red Walker a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage

quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One

Heh. Lie back on the handy cushions, enticing hamster, and let us ponder together...
love,
THO

You know, those are my cushions!



Actually they are "Her" cushions my friend.......and I'm hoping you don't sport anything so simular

A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka

"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -

John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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The Red Walker
Great Reader

USA
3523 Posts

Posted - 12 Aug 2010 :  01:55:30  Show Profile  Send The Red Walker a Yahoo! Message Send The Red Walker a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One

Hi again, all.
Red Walker: certainly. Years and years ago, Ed wrote one of the chapters of the early computer game THE TWO TOWERS (can't remember if the company was Interplay or Black Isle).
On another occasion, he wrote some set-in-Middle-Earth short stories (background "sketches" of supporting characters) for a movie license for the LORD OF THE RINGS that was never acted upon (and lapsed). [Of course, these tales were never published anywhere, and as far as I know, there's no legal way they now can be.]
love.
THO



Not even as not for profit fan/author/creator of worlds fiction?

That's too bad, I'd love to have a peek at those!

A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka

"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -

John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963

Edited by - The Red Walker on 12 Aug 2010 01:56:42
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
29798 Posts

Posted - 12 Aug 2010 :  02:37:14  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One

Heh. Lie back on the handy cushions, enticing hamster, and let us ponder together...
love,
THO



And then we can explore the possibilities!

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Editor and scribe for The Candlekeep Compendium

I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
29798 Posts

Posted - 12 Aug 2010 :  02:38:34  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by The Red Walker

quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One

Hi again, all.
Red Walker: certainly. Years and years ago, Ed wrote one of the chapters of the early computer game THE TWO TOWERS (can't remember if the company was Interplay or Black Isle).
On another occasion, he wrote some set-in-Middle-Earth short stories (background "sketches" of supporting characters) for a movie license for the LORD OF THE RINGS that was never acted upon (and lapsed). [Of course, these tales were never published anywhere, and as far as I know, there's no legal way they now can be.]
love.
THO



Not even as not for profit fan/author/creator of worlds fiction?

That's too bad, I'd love to have a peek at those!



It's an oft-unfortunate rule, but when someone pays for intellectual property, even if they never do anything with it, they are still the only ones allowed to distribute it.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Editor and scribe for The Candlekeep Compendium

I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31687 Posts

Posted - 12 Aug 2010 :  02:59:14  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by The Red Walker

quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One

Hi again, all.
Red Walker: certainly. Years and years ago, Ed wrote one of the chapters of the early computer game THE TWO TOWERS (can't remember if the company was Interplay or Black Isle).
On another occasion, he wrote some set-in-Middle-Earth short stories (background "sketches" of supporting characters) for a movie license for the LORD OF THE RINGS that was never acted upon (and lapsed). [Of course, these tales were never published anywhere, and as far as I know, there's no legal way they now can be.]
love.
THO



Not even as not for profit fan/author/creator of worlds fiction?

That's too bad, I'd love to have a peek at those!

As Wooly noted, it's often a circumstance of the agreed upon policies of use of intellectual property.

I'm sure enquiries could be made about it, but, ultimately, they'll either admit to very little, or take forever to be settled.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)

"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood

Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31687 Posts

Posted - 12 Aug 2010 :  03:00:51  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One

Heh. Lie back on the handy cushions, enticing hamster, and let us ponder together...
love,
THO



And then we can explore the possibilities!

Bah! I get no recognition. And we're in MY chambers as well.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)

"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood

Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage
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