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The Red Walker
Great Reader

USA
3523 Posts

Posted - 20 Jul 2010 :  22:02:18  Show Profile  Send The Red Walker a Yahoo! Message Send The Red Walker a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One

. . . . And a quick answer from Ed, Zandilar!:


Oh, yes indeed. :}


So saith Ed. Heh. Who has written about one (but it probably won't see print for years, unless someone forces him to include one in the next Spin A Yarn, by suggesting it at this year's GenCon seminar [hint hint]).
Oh, I'm as subtle as a brick.
love,
THO



And Ed does include most anything we throw at him....Back at GenCon 2008 I requested a Tressym on behalf of our own scribe Rinonalyrna Fathomlin, and sure enough it showed up in the Spin A Yarn!

* I took notes of most all suggestions, and the percentage that Ed used in the Yarn was staggeringly high!


ed: sp

A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka

"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -

John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963

Edited by - The Red Walker on 20 Jul 2010 22:03:45
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Zandilar
Learned Scribe

Australia
313 Posts

Posted - 21 Jul 2010 :  00:02:39  Show Profile  Visit Zandilar's Homepage Send Zandilar a Private Message
Heya,

quote:
Originally posted by Hoondatha

And are they of the good-trending lycanthropes, or the evil-trending lycanthropes?



Considering that Tressym themselves are intelligent good trending (Usually Chaotic Good) magical beasts, I think the answer should be fairly self-evident. :)

gomez - I'd expect if they had a hybrid form it'd be like most other lycanthrope's hybrid form, which is to say an anthropomorphic version of their animal form, rather than a winged human with a cat face (unless the former is actually what you meant! In which case, ignore me. ).

I agree with the idea that they might be Harpers (or at least friendly towards them) and probably 'sacred' to Sharess and/or Selune.

They would be on good terms with werecats, I think. Not so much the rest of the were-feline family.

I doubt there's very many of them, though, given that their source creature is a magical beast rather than an animal.

Zandilar
~amor vincit omnia~
~audaces fortuna iuvat~

As the spell ends, you look up into the sky to see the sun blazing overhead like noon in a desert. Then something else in the sky catches your attention. Turning your gaze, you see a tawny furred kitten bounding across the sky towards the new sun. Her eyes glint a mischevious green as she pounces on it as if it were nothing but a colossal ball of golden yarn. With quick strokes of her paws, it is batted across the sky, back and forth. Then with a wink the kitten and the sun disappear, leaving the citizens of Elversult gazing up with amazed expressions that quickly turn into chortles and mirth.

The Sunlord left Elversult the same day in humilitation, and was never heard from again.

Edited by - Zandilar on 21 Jul 2010 00:11:01
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Hoondatha
Great Reader

USA
2384 Posts

Posted - 21 Jul 2010 :  01:06:20  Show Profile  Visit Hoondatha's Homepage Send Hoondatha a Private Message
I long ago learned to make no assumptions about the Realms, especially about areas that Ed has long-standing plans and ideas. While I'd agree that my first thought of were-tressyms would be that they'd be good, it's also possible that they aren't, and are using the reputation of their form donors to get close to their targets. It's the Realms, anything's possible.

On a side note, how many different "non-standard" lycanthropes have shown up in Ed's games? The list from the old Montrous Manual has expanded to include were-crocodiles, were-spiders, were-sharks, were-badgers, were-dragons (not exactly lycanthropes, but still), were-eagles (I think), and now were-tressyms, in addition to any others I've forgotten. What creates such an incredible variety of lycanthropes, are there any others Ed knows off the top of his head, and are some of them normally only found in specific places (like were-crocs mostly appearing only in Mulhorand and certain parts of Zakhara)?

Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well.
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Blueblade
Senior Scribe

USA
804 Posts

Posted - 21 Jul 2010 :  01:48:09  Show Profile  Visit Blueblade's Homepage Send Blueblade a Private Message
I'm thinking the huge variety of lycanthropes has to do with the "odd" nature of lycanthropy (disease/curse/magical...that last part being most important; i.e. because the Weave "was everywhere" and the Realms was an active-magic or "high-magic" world, there was lots of lycanthropy.
This is, of course, just my speculation, but it fits in well with what Ed has been telling us for years.
Ed? THO? Squash me, confirm what I say, or - -?

BB
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
4740 Posts

Posted - 21 Jul 2010 :  05:37:29  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message
Don't forget the werebeholder. Any chance of some information on that beastie, Ed?

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31687 Posts

Posted - 21 Jul 2010 :  06:07:53  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos

Don't forget the werebeholder. Any chance of some information on that beastie, Ed?

-- George Krashos


Oooh! I'll second that request Ed.

I've been thinking about dropping some alternate and/or lesser-known were-beast varieties into my current campaign. A werebeholder might be just the thing.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)

"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood

Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage
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gomez
Learned Scribe

Netherlands
254 Posts

Posted - 21 Jul 2010 :  06:26:15  Show Profile  Visit gomez's Homepage Send gomez a Private Message
A beholder is not a beast though, so a 'werebeholder' may well have a different origin or nature than most other lycanthropes, who likely have a similar background (i.e. the result of shamanic rituals by people seeking to gain the powers of totem anaimals - at least, that is what I prefer as a common explanation).
I could imagine were-beholders be created through magical experimentation (liekly by behodlers themselves).

I also re-considered the were-tressym, and I wonder (hopefully Ed can give us his ideas) if it would not be more akin to the nature of a swanmay, or posisbly a selkie - that is, not a curse, but either a bestowed blessing or 'natural' election (most likely of a fey nature). This seems to fit more with the nature of the tressym. Of course, both forms may exist as well, though I have some difficulty wrapping my mind around the idea of a man turning into a tressym by the full moon and go a-rampaging...

Gomez
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31687 Posts

Posted - 21 Jul 2010 :  07:22:50  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by gomez

A beholder is not a beast though, so a 'werebeholder' may well have a different origin or nature than most other lycanthropes, who likely have a similar background (i.e. the result of shamanic rituals by people seeking to gain the powers of totem anaimals - at least, that is what I prefer as a common explanation).
I could imagine were-beholders be created through magical experimentation (liekly by behodlers themselves).
My speculative thoughts about the possible origins of were-beholders suggest that they may have been random mutations unexpectedly created by a Hive Mother, when birthing a particular abomination -- an attempt by a Hive Mother to create a specialised beholder-type that ultimately failed. And given that beholder abominations can't usually breed, this makes such random beholder mutations, a very unique were-beast experience.

Of course, there's always the possibility of pathologic lycanthropy as well. And I've a few thoughts about a possible inheritable lycanthropy strain for beholders too, but that particular series of side-theories, delves far too deeply into my own brand of RAVENLOFT lore to be of any relevance in this discussion.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)

"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood

Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage

Edited by - The Sage on 21 Jul 2010 07:25:27
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Zandilar
Learned Scribe

Australia
313 Posts

Posted - 21 Jul 2010 :  11:00:13  Show Profile  Visit Zandilar's Homepage Send Zandilar a Private Message
Heya,

quote:
Originally posted by Hoondatha

I long ago learned to make no assumptions about the Realms, especially about areas that Ed has long-standing plans and ideas. While I'd agree that my first thought of were-tressyms would be that they'd be good, it's also possible that they aren't, and are using the reputation of their form donors to get close to their targets. It's the Realms, anything's possible.



Well yes, I suppose I agree with you in principle. However, I'd be very disappointed if were-tressym turn out to be (usually/always) evil.

(And if were-tressym are evil, then were-beholders better be good! )

Zandilar
~amor vincit omnia~
~audaces fortuna iuvat~

As the spell ends, you look up into the sky to see the sun blazing overhead like noon in a desert. Then something else in the sky catches your attention. Turning your gaze, you see a tawny furred kitten bounding across the sky towards the new sun. Her eyes glint a mischevious green as she pounces on it as if it were nothing but a colossal ball of golden yarn. With quick strokes of her paws, it is batted across the sky, back and forth. Then with a wink the kitten and the sun disappear, leaving the citizens of Elversult gazing up with amazed expressions that quickly turn into chortles and mirth.

The Sunlord left Elversult the same day in humilitation, and was never heard from again.

Edited by - Zandilar on 21 Jul 2010 11:01:03
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Zireael
Master of Realmslore

Poland
1190 Posts

Posted - 21 Jul 2010 :  13:49:27  Show Profile  Visit Zireael's Homepage Send Zireael a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Hoondatha

I long ago learned to make no assumptions about the Realms, especially about areas that Ed has long-standing plans and ideas. While I'd agree that my first thought of were-tressyms would be that they'd be good, it's also possible that they aren't, and are using the reputation of their form donors to get close to their targets. It's the Realms, anything's possible.

On a side note, how many different "non-standard" lycanthropes have shown up in Ed's games? The list from the old Montrous Manual has expanded to include were-crocodiles, were-spiders, were-sharks, were-badgers, were-dragons (not exactly lycanthropes, but still), were-eagles (I think), and now were-tressyms, in addition to any others I've forgotten. What creates such an incredible variety of lycanthropes, are there any others Ed knows off the top of his head, and are some of them normally only found in specific places (like were-crocs mostly appearing only in Mulhorand and certain parts of Zakhara)?



Wow, I'm starting to think there IS actually a possibility of a nice organization of were-somethings (mostly spellcaster) spanning Faerun...
And I'd guess it's the magic too. Ask Lurue, won't you?

SiNafay Vrinn, the daughter of Lloth, from Ched Nasad!

http://zireael07.wordpress.com/
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore

5036 Posts

Posted - 21 Jul 2010 :  15:58:49  Show Profile  Visit The Hooded One's Homepage Send The Hooded One a Private Message
Hmmm. Remember that there's a difference between what WE know as readers of game rulebooks, and folk in the Realms know. Whilst scholars and sages may adhere to rules for which particular creatures they call "weres," simple crofters, shopkeepers, and ranchers will be apt to dub any shapechanger or suspected shapechanger a "were-creature."
And I'll have to check with Ed re. whether or not the werebeholder is NDA (a detailed writeup, I mean; I'm sure he can speak of them in general just as we all discuss zombies, skeletons, dragons...and tressym).
love,
THO
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Kajehase
Great Reader

Sweden
2104 Posts

Posted - 21 Jul 2010 :  20:07:00  Show Profile Send Kajehase a Private Message
Not a question, but I thought that maybe Ed would enjoy hearing that as of last week, with 43 titles, he is the most represented author in my bookshelves, leaving Terry Pratchett in the dust.

There is a rumour going around that I have found god. I think is unlikely because I have enough difficulty finding my keys, and there is empirical evidence that they exist.
Terry Pratchett
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Barastir
Master of Realmslore

Brazil
1393 Posts

Posted - 22 Jul 2010 :  01:55:34  Show Profile  Click to see Barastir's MSN Messenger address Send Barastir a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One

Hmmm. Remember that there's a difference between what WE know as readers of game rulebooks, and folk in the Realms know. Whilst scholars and sages may adhere to rules for which particular creatures they call "weres," simple crofters, shopkeepers, and ranchers will be apt to dub any shapechanger or suspected shapechanger a "were-creature."
And I'll have to check with Ed re. whether or not the werebeholder is NDA (a detailed writeup, I mean; I'm sure he can speak of them in general just as we all discuss zombies, skeletons, dragons...and tressym).
love,
THO


Well met, Hooded Lady... I've been reading this thread for a while, but never had the opportunity of posting something, until now... This werebeasts discussion caught my eye, and I have a question... In the 1e Hall of Heroes, there is an extensive list of werecreatures, in the "Kelemvor" last pages, and there are some interesting varieties, like lycanthropic weredragons - very different from the Halls of the High King song dragons. Were they (no pun intended) Ed's creations? Cause I've never seen those creatures in other books and stories...

"Goodness is not a natural state, but must be
fought for to be attained and maintained.
Lead by example.
Let your deeds speak your intentions.
Goodness radiated from the heart."

The Paladin's Virtues, excerpt from the "Quentin's Monograph"
(by Ed Greenwood)
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rjfras
Learned Scribe

261 Posts

Posted - 22 Jul 2010 :  03:01:21  Show Profile  Visit rjfras's Homepage Send rjfras a Private Message
In the Bestiary of the Realms compiled by Eric Boyd and Thomas Costa, that updated many creatures to 3rd edition rules, there is a list of many of the were-creatures with credits and where they first appeared:

CREDIT
Author Thomas M. Costa, based on original material by Wolfgang Bauer and Steve Kurtz (werehyena, werelion), Tomas Willis (werehyena), Eric L. Boyd (wereblack-lion, weremole), Nigel Findley (werebadger), Gary Gygax (werefox, hu hsien), David E. Martin (werebison, werecat, weredog, weredolphin, wereleopard, wereowl, werepanther, wereseal, and werespider), Tom Moldvay (wereseal), Roger E. Moore (werebadger, werebison, werejaguar, wereleopard), Gali Sanchez (werejaguar), and others. These lycanthropes originally appeared in Dragon Magazine #40, 41, 70, 89 (1980, 1980, 1983, 1984), Hall of Heroes (1989), the 1E Monster Manual (1977), 1E Monster Manual 2 (1983), the Monstrous Manual (1993), Monstrous Compendium 13: Al-Qadim Appendix (1992), Monstrous Compendium Annual Volumes One, Two, and Three (1994, 1995, 1996), Powers and Pantheons (1997), Demihuman Deities (1998), and Van Richtenís Guide to Werebeasts (1993). The hu hsien originally appeared in the original Oriental Adventures (1985) and Monstrous Compendium: Kara-Tur Appendix (1990).
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Barastir
Master of Realmslore

Brazil
1393 Posts

Posted - 22 Jul 2010 :  16:58:30  Show Profile  Click to see Barastir's MSN Messenger address Send Barastir a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by rjfras

In the Bestiary of the Realms compiled by Eric Boyd and Thomas Costa, that updated many creatures to 3rd edition rules, there is a list of many of the were-creatures with credits and where they first appeared (...)


Nice. But it seems this list doesn't comprise the weredragon lycanthropes. And how did they dealt with werebeasts that had more than one version, and different ones, like wereleopards? And all of these creatures are recognized by Mr. Greenwood?

"Goodness is not a natural state, but must be
fought for to be attained and maintained.
Lead by example.
Let your deeds speak your intentions.
Goodness radiated from the heart."

The Paladin's Virtues, excerpt from the "Quentin's Monograph"
(by Ed Greenwood)

Edited by - Barastir on 22 Jul 2010 17:00:47
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Blueblade
Senior Scribe

USA
804 Posts

Posted - 22 Jul 2010 :  18:04:32  Show Profile  Visit Blueblade's Homepage Send Blueblade a Private Message
Well, Ed's style/approach since the advent of the published Realms has been to accept everything official and try to rationalize/link/explain everything fitting together.
Also, I recall Ed saying that just as there are unique undead and "mutant" orcs (with four arms, etc.) and humans with wild talents, there are various sorts of were-creatures that go from the same sort of creature to the same sort of creature (e.g. "werewolf" and "wolfwere" being two different creatures in one edition of D&D). So, yes, it's likely he would accept different sorts of wereleopards, werecamels, etc.
Ed's thinking has always been that it encourages roleplaying, because players can't just go by "what they know from the rulebooks," but have to stop and observe/think about this "unknown" creature they're facing...
BB
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capnvan
Senior Scribe

USA
592 Posts

Posted - 23 Jul 2010 :  12:16:44  Show Profile  Visit capnvan's Homepage Send capnvan a Private Message
Terribly sorry to butt in on this were-creature thread...

Ahem.

On a completely different topic, a question: We know that Lathander's temples sponsor athletic and artistic competitions. But I think that's about all the detail I've seen.

Could you give us some more info on what those competitions might look like? Are athletics purely individual events, or are there team games as well? Some kind of ball kicked by foot? Are the artistic competitions spontaneous (Iron Chef-style?) or more of a "show" of work that artists have been working on recently? What kind of prizes are awarded? Etc.

Thanks!

Edit 7/24: And thanks, milady, for the post directly below - that was very helpful!

"Saving a life, though regrettable, is a small price to pay for a whole lifetime of unfettered killing."

Edited by - capnvan on 24 Jul 2010 14:31:08
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore

5036 Posts

Posted - 23 Jul 2010 :  23:33:02  Show Profile  Visit The Hooded One's Homepage Send The Hooded One a Private Message
Hi again, all.
capnvan, your query has gone off to Ed, who will provide a proper reply fairly soon-ish, I'm hoping, but I can recall from Realmsplay observations and from talking with him that the Lathanderite athletic and artistic competitions are almost entirely individual rather tham team-oriented, that they are to be conducted alone as a competition with oneself more than compared to others, and that athletics are to be as artistic as possible (example: don't just run faster or jump higher or longer than another, do it with graceful STYLE). Although results are displayed to others as inspiration (clergy of the Morninglord have some sort of "movie" or "record moving images as holograph-like life-sized moving images" spells with which to preserve athletic strivings for others to see), both athletic feets and artistic endeavours are seen and treated as offerings to the god, not as nasty or aggressive head-to-head competitions with other mortals.
The rewards are given by the clergy and have more to do with holy boons and minor magic than with titles or ribbons, though I believe there are practical (clergy help athletes train and artists get materials/sales opportunities) sides to the rewards as well.
The clergy officially proclaims these achievements as "inspired by Lathander" through prayer to Lathander, and that individuals should take personal pride in them and see them as made possible through Lathander but still their own achievements, not those of the deity.

Heh. So saith me, drawing on my notes of Ed's words. More to come from him, I hope.
love,
THO
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althen artren
Senior Scribe

USA
777 Posts

Posted - 24 Jul 2010 :  01:19:37  Show Profile Send althen artren a Private Message
I think that the were-beholder must be born alive in some way,
due to the breeding program that Manshoon subjects himself to
(See Knights of Myth Drannor trilogy). Originally, beholders
hatch from eggs, so maybe eggs are made microsized after
Manshoon shoots mome DNA into them, and implants them into
ovulating females?

Edited by - althen artren on 24 Jul 2010 01:20:25
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Joran Nobleheart
Senior Scribe

USA
489 Posts

Posted - 24 Jul 2010 :  07:47:09  Show Profile  Visit Joran Nobleheart's Homepage Send Joran Nobleheart a Private Message
Hello again! I've read about the herbs used to prevent pregnancy and even the potion mentioned in Magic of Faerun, and I was wondering if there's a potion or herb if not both that actually helps increase the chance of pregnancy. Also curious about the wives tales that don't work, or some that have different effects from what they should have. Thank you for your time!

Paladinic Ethos
Saint Joran Nobleheart
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Jakuta Khan
Senior Scribe

496 Posts

Posted - 24 Jul 2010 :  15:11:05  Show Profile Send Jakuta Khan a Private Message
Ok, here is something burning in my heart for very long already:

Dear Ed / THO,
In the forgotten realms, the various goblinoid races are seemingly not capable of uniting between themselves so to pose any serious threat - on their own, und their own leadership - for the last 1.000 year as far as I know.
this is kind of weird, since the much more chaotic orcs for comparison, seem to be able to do so on a regular base.

Given the high fertility of the goblinoid races, and especially the hobgoblins military and strategical potential, according to all descriptions about this race, this seems to be very strange.

A reply to this question wouldbe very much appreciated from an unknowing individual.
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore

5036 Posts

Posted - 24 Jul 2010 :  17:43:18  Show Profile  Visit The Hooded One's Homepage Send The Hooded One a Private Message
Hi, Jakuta Khan.
Herewith, an answer from me based on discussions with Ed and Gary Gygax.
Gary envisaged D&D as a humanocentric roleplaying game (most players would play human characters or crossbred part-human characters), and humans would predominate in the "assumed base" fantasy setting for the game (your own campaign world could be anything you wanted, but the baseline world, which was Greyhawk at first and later the Realms) would be dominated by human culture and settlements.
Ed pointed out to Gary that he'd made the orcs (and goblins), per Tolkien, both aggressive/experienced fighters, and fecund/numerous, so how could the humans predominate? Hobgoblins were fewer but mightier, so they were a "how come?" problem, too.
Obviously, something had to kill the orcs off, to logically end up with Gary's world view (which WAS D&D at the time; there were few or no direct competitors in the marketplace, and canon was ALL, to the omparatively few gamers). Some of the orc deaths could be due to harsh environment (orcs and goblins lairing in the Underdark and mountain caverns, where they would be prey for many things, considering the huge array of hungry monsters in the game).
And just as obviously, they war on each other (something picked up and exaggerated in the Warhammer fantasy line), and eat their dead, which takes care of reducing their numbers and keeping their building/infrastructure/cultural dominance to a minimum (orcs aren't busy building roads or palaces or irrigation viaducts if they're always raiding, fighting, or preparing/training for war).
In the Realms, Ed envisaged fallen orc kingdoms of the past (as humans and elves pushed the orcs out of forested, verdant lowlands), but orcs clinging to mountain and Underdark areas. In the latter, they were subject to many predators, and the drow kept them from establishing dominant civilizations. In the former, well, in the Realms, mountains are where most DRAGONS lair, so orcs in the open were . . . dinner.
This is "how it has to be" to match Gary's wants at the time, which WERE the game. In the Realms, Ed came up with the wrinkle that in the Sword Coast North, although small and far-ranging raiding bands of flind, gnolls, goblins, hobgoblins, orcs, and rarer "goblinkin" (norkers, et al) were frequent, large-scale orc threats weren't.
However, the fecund orcs built up numbers in the northern mountain caverns until there was no more room, and fighting among orcs was frequent, and the race was boiling-restless...whereupon elders would speak of the rich plunder in the human cities of the warmer south, and if a charismatic leader arose, the young would follow him and an orc horde would form (about every twenty to forty years, but NOT on a strict and predictable timetable) and sweep south, attacking everything in its path, until shattered and slaughtered (some orcs always surviving to lair in the south or even return home with tales of what befell).
So orcs are seen as too innately aggressive to form lasting power structures above the tribal level, except when charismatic individuals (Obould is a current example) weld stronger aggregations together. These seldom outlast the death of the charismatic leaders, unless they can found a strong dynasty.
Goblins are seen as too small and weak to be mighty warriors, but to be very vicious, agile, tough, enduring/cunning, and numerous; they succeed like halflings, but are offset in successes by the many races that "are a match for them" (like humans), and achieve more success by hiding and skulking, remaining near-to-surface underground and emerging for raids. They are everywhere, they are endless, but their "kingdoms" are only known and recognized by other goblins, being as they overlap the surface lands held by others, and the goblins maintain this low profile.
Lastly, the hobgoblins really ARE formidable, and successful. So successful that most folk in the Realms haven't realized it. Too smart to make the mistakes of their orc cousins, and having too much wisdom to trust in the loyaty of orcs (though many hobgolbins have led orcs and tried to instill such loyalty, only to see it fail time and time again), hobgoblins have opted for keeping a low profile, too. They dwell in hiding, usually underground in remote or difficult-terrain areas (such as the cave-riddled, all-ravine-and-knife-edged-ridges Stonelands north of Cormyr, that no force can ride into, and maintain any sort of formation in), and emerge to raid in small warbands, usually drawn from the members of four families at most.
The wider Realms doesn't "see" hobgoblins because they're SO good. They go to raid specific places to achieve specific goals (loot, food, and the elimination of anyone who knows much about hobgoblins/has seen them/has fought them with any success), and then return into hiding. They see "success" as staying unnoticed and getting what they want, not conquering large tracts of land and wasting time defending this territory/engaging in trade/having to try to negotiate with others; they just aren't interested in the "big famous kingdom" thing.
The wording of your question seems to suggest you're seeing success only in "uniting" in large numbers to found human-like kingdoms. The secret to understanding the Realms is to go beyond human prejudices and see that the other races (elves, dwarves, gnomes, halflings, orcs, goblins, hobgoblins, treants, dragons, etc.) ARE TRULY DIFFERENT from humans, and don't want the same things humans want.
Orcs love to fight, plunder, rape, pillage, burn, and cause suffering. They don't want to sit on thrones and pass or obey boring laws, or go out to plant crops. They want ready food, yes, but they don't want to have to oversee slaves for long - - just long enough to sell them, or keep a few to beat and dominate, which usually means weak and small creatures like human children. Yes, I'm stereotyping and generalizing here, so there are MANY exceptions, that you as a DM can build stories around, but I'm trying to make the point that judging the goblinkin by human standards will always lead you to seeing them as failures, and being baffled as to why they're failures.
Agree? Disagree? This is the skinny, anyway!
love,
THO


Edited by - The Hooded One on 24 Jul 2010 18:02:47
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Jakuta Khan
Senior Scribe

496 Posts

Posted - 24 Jul 2010 :  19:38:49  Show Profile Send Jakuta Khan a Private Message
Dear THO,

thank you very much for this detailed reply, I indeed had myself guided by Human standards.

The main reason was, that I always red, especially for the Hobgoblin, that they are permanently trying to extend their perimeter. And their main God Maglubiyet is one of conquest war and aggression, where I took the "conuest" too direct, without considering the more abstract or indirect methods of it.

In the way you describe it, it is complete possible even for me to follow up.

Again, thank you very much for this detailed answer.
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Jakuta Khan
Senior Scribe

496 Posts

Posted - 24 Jul 2010 :  19:49:08  Show Profile Send Jakuta Khan a Private Message
I am at no way intended of annoying this community with my affection for the hobgoblin race in the realms, it is simply being fascinated by the appearance they make, and how they are descrobed always in the realms.

I think it is mainly based on my affection to them, that I would love, from my very human point of view, to see them more active.
especially when the direct competitors as Cormyr for example, are down on their knees.

Or just jump on the cormyrian army after them fighting the shades etc....
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tears_of_elysium
Acolyte

Australia
3 Posts

Posted - 25 Jul 2010 :  00:22:33  Show Profile  Visit tears_of_elysium's Homepage  Click to see tears_of_elysium's MSN Messenger address Send tears_of_elysium a Private Message
Dear Hooded One, Ed, and Candlekeep community... Can I first start by saying how amazing it is that you have compiled such a wealth of insight on Ed's vision of the realms - while I know that Ed has said many times that his vision shouldn't be what dictates the vision of others, and his Realms is a snapshot for others to take and make their own - I think it's been possible through reading through everything to date (It's taken me about 4 months, as it happens) for a person to understand what kind of a world the Realms as revealed to us might be, if editors weren't editors, and market forces weren't market forces.

Particularly comments about the prevailing attitudes and opinions of Realmsfolk (or lack thereof) on sexuality, which is something that in online communities I have seen discussed ad nauseum, with many people making the "medieval realism" argument, which has never ever sat well with me - I mean who wants to play oppressed and opportunity-less serfs in a fantasy game?

I completely agree with what Ed has said many times, that it's the small things that make the story memorable, and it's in this light that I was wondering if Ed had any heretofore unrevealed tidbits about the city of Melvaunt, and the wastes of Thar which surround it?

I am currently designing a persistent world module using Neverwinter Nights set there, and I am confident that I am building a place that a certain Bearded One might recognize with a small smile, if they were ever to vist it - a steel rose on the tunic of a prominent Council member, mayhap.
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