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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
 Posted - 13 Jul 2010 : 22:22:50
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Garen Thal, the ommision of lore does not negate the fact of its possible existance. Elminster has, on two occassions I know of, mentioned a relationship with Amedehast, that infers he passed on some knowledge to her.
And you think Mages only apprentice under one 'master'? For shame... Khelben was a mighty mage.. or at least he thought so... until he met and apprenticed under El. 
He also takes Caladenai under his wing in that novel - he whisks her off, presumably in the same exact fashion he did to Vangerdehast before, who also thought he was a mighty Mage, until El humbled him. He states "Vangerdehast cried when I showed him those things". Ergo, "that is what an Elminster does" (to quote Narnra from yet another part of the book). He obviously taught Caladenai something just then - she was respectful and apologetic to him.
Anyhow, I am theorizing here, as THO suggested I do.
The fact that Elminster has finally found a suitable replacement for his 'life's work' is fairly apparent - he makes several off-hand comments throughout the novel, some pertaining to his life coming to a close, and one very telling scene wherein he and Vangerdehast say the same thing at the same time - but it, too, is only one piece of the puzzle.
Your points II and III really don't effect the final conclusion one way or the other, and it is stated in the novel, quite clearly, that "there are a lot of us" by Laspeera. If she knows this, it seems pretty 'organized' to me.
Actually, point III is just plain wrong - pg. 83...
"Moreover, if ye examine no less then six royal decrees and two binding treaties that I know of, preserved in the royal records of Cormyr, I - though not the ruler of Aglarond I'll grant - have the freedom of the realm and a court rank, by the way, that outstrips your own."
Only the royals out-rank the Mage Royal - she even 'talked down to' Vangerdehast, who is now technically her inferior (rank-wise).
Lets call these 'intuitive leaps' - no single one really matters - they all bring me to the same conclusion.
quote:
Originally posted by The Red Walker
And this all would seem to point to El being the "father" of Cormyr
*DING* *DING* DING*
Give the boy a cookie.
That is PRECISELY the thought I had - I even pictured Elminster standing in the prow of a rowboat, crossing the Wyvernwater, much like the famous painting of George Washington, crossing the Delaware.
But once again, that is only a piece of the puzzle - there are more layers there - I thought I had dug down to the root of the matter, but I find yet-another layer, one that goes back to the beginning of time... |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 13 Jul 2010 23:48:46 |
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Garen Thal
Master of Realmslore
USA
1105 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jul 2010 : 23:43:40
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Anyhow, I am theorizing here - I was unaware that you personally know of every single person everyone in the Realms has interacted with at one time or another - that must be one hell of a data-base.
Markustay, I'm going to have to take offense to this statement--not merely because of your assumption, but because of your tone. It's a bit nasty, frankly, and nothing in my post (intentionally or otherwise) warranted that kind of sniping.
Additionally, as the person that has edited, redacted, fleshed out, and revised the Royal Lineage of Cormyr for the last several years (with the help of Ed, George Krashos, and others--but as its primary keeper), if there is anything about the Realms I do know better than anyone other than Ed himself, it's the dealings of Cormyr's royals (and, by extension, its Mages Royal).
I did not say that Elminster had no dealings with any of the Royal Magicians of Cormyr. I did not say that he did not have a hand in steering some of them to their eventual tasks and decisions. What I said was "Elminster did not train all of Cormyr's Mages Royal. In fact, he trained only one of its Royal Magicians: Vangerdahast."
I'm going to let Ed have his thread back, since its clear that my input as resident Cormyr expert isn't welcome on this particular issue, but before I do, I'll point out a possibility that it seems you didn't consider:
Perhaps it was not Amedahast that learned from Elminster, but the other way round. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jul 2010 : 23:58:21
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Dang.
I was just editing my post, after re-reading, both to make it more polite and to clarify a few things, but you quoted me before I could get rid of that.
Sorry 
And still, the points you just made have very little to do with the final conclusion I drew, which I still haven't stated. It doesn't matter if he taught them, met them, or simply played cards with them.
It is the fact that he was THERE.
Almost from the beginning.
I am also not saying he is part of the royal family, but I would hazard to guess he is related to them several times over. I am not saying he is an obarskyr, or secretly 'the first Obarskyr' - that would be silly and far-fetched.
There is one 'great thing' that Elminster has always been remorseful over, more so then the thousand other things he is sorry for. Something he wishes he could go back, and 'make right'.
This is the point I am aiming at - the lynchpin that a lot of lore revolves around.
And not JUST Elminster and Cormyr - there is the 'deeper layer' I alluded to. In fact, now that I see it, I feel silly that I hadn't really noticed it before, because Ed has flat-out said it time and again, when discussing Elminster and the Chosen. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 14 Jul 2010 00:01:18 |
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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3563 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jul 2010 : 01:17:00
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Garen,
So did Amedahast have"Darkeyes"? |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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Blueblade
Senior Scribe
USA
804 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jul 2010 : 01:58:30
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Okay, this is driving me MAD. As long as it's just speculation, Markustay, PLEASE go ahead and reveal this "deeper layer" you've mentioned.
I want to know.
I HAVE to know.
I . . . c'mon, put me out of this misery of suspense. Reveal, already. 
BB |
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Malcolm
Learned Scribe
242 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jul 2010 : 02:00:44
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Yes, please share, Markustay. Right or wrong, I'm fascinated and I want to hear what THO (and Ed) say in response. We may learn some important stuff from their words.
And if you "go too far," all they have to do is not confirm it, and we'll never be sure, so no harm, no foul.
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Broken Helm
Learned Scribe
USA
108 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jul 2010 : 02:05:22
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| Yes, what's this one big thing El is most remorseful about? |
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jul 2010 : 02:10:23
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Hi again, all.
Garen Thal, your input is VERY welcome on this issue.
Particularly as your points are all correct (yes, including the closing one in your second post).
I know a little more than Ed has put into print, in canon Realmslore, but Ed has asked me not to say anything on this for a little while, to see what scribes discern (and guess) on their own.
So I'll add my voice to those asking Markustay to boldly go into sharing the "deeper layer" he sees.
love to all,
THO
P.S. Oh, I wish the Royal Lineage could see print, somehow. Perhaps it's time for both Garen and Ed to tackle Steve Winter . . .
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Baleful Avatar
Learned Scribe
Canada
161 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jul 2010 : 02:12:26
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I find myself needing to apply all my mature, reserved powers to this matter of elminster and Cormyr and whatever the deeper layer is:
Gimme! Gimme! Gimme! Gotta know! Gotta know! 
Please?
BA |
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Snowblood
Senior Scribe
Australia
388 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jul 2010 : 02:15:38
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| A persons death that he could have prevented...and as a consequence his lack of action has echoed down the ages??????? |
Aryvandaar, Ilythiir, Arnothoi, Orva, Sarphil, Anauria/Asram/Hlondath, Uvaeren, Braceldaur, Ilodhar, Lisenaar, Imaskar, Miyeritar, Orishaar, Shantel Othrieir, Keltormir, Eaerlann, Ammarindar, Siluvanede, Sharrven, Illefarn, Ardeep, Rystal Wood, Evereska are all available here for download:http://phasai.deviantart.com/gallery/
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Longtime Lurker
Seeker
51 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jul 2010 : 02:43:51
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I have always thought - - perhaps entirely wrongly - - that when Elminster said that to Caladnei about his rank outstripping her own, he was referring to having at some time in the past been called in, and recognized by the monarch of the time, as some sort of "Royal Investigator" into the War Wizards, who could give orders to the Royal Magician, Court Wizard, and any War Wizard, to do his investigations.
A post that's probably forgotten by the time of Caladnei, except by Vangey (who doesn't want anyone to remember it) but that was confirmed by five later Cormyrean monarchs (those "six decrees") and in return for which El wrung a concession out of Cormyr: don't walk in and de facto conquer Shadowdale (and perhaps other dales), which would be the "treaties" mentioned.
This is all speculation on my part, but it sure fits what El said. He was the "top" alarphon at some time, and because he outlived everyone, never formally relinquished that post. Later kings saw him as a convenient bogeyman to warn off Vangey or any other over-ambitious War Wizard with, if they stepped too far into "running things without remembering to even inform the Obarskyrs about what orders they were giving" territory, and "reconfirmed" him in that post, perhaps pointedly at Court.
Ed? THO? Garen Thal? In the tradition of Eric Boyd and George Krashos, this is my concocted explanation for what Ed's said, that makes it "fit" with what else we know.
Or, of course, that utterance of El's could have been something far more simple: a flat lie, trying to manipulate an inexperienced Caladnei.
Oh, geez, Ed, you've put layers upon layers into this, haven't you?
That's why it all feels so real . . . |
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Menelvagor
Senior Scribe
Israel
352 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jul 2010 : 10:31:15
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Markustay, you mentioned Athalantar, and it was unclear whether you were implying that it has some connection to Cormyr. I do remember asking Ed about this (something about the symbol or name of Cormyr having something to do with a stag, and Athalantar being the Stag Kingdom) and his answer that there was no connection between Athalantar and Cormyr, and that Athalantar "was located just south of what is now the High Forest, and was defined by the two rivers: Delimbiyr and the Unicorn Run."
Re. this: "Perhaps it was not Amedahast that learned from Elminster, but the other way round."
It seems weird to me that Elminster (who by then [later than 376 DR] had been in Myth Drannor [reborn in 261 DR], and met Alea Dahast herself) would have that much to learn from Amedahast. Yet our Lady says it is true. I think it was more of a partnership. Amedahast taught El spells of Baerauble from Netheril, and he taught her spells from Myth Drannor.
In any case, it is probable that Elminster had a hand in helping Amedahast, and probably helped her found the War Wizards. He obviously cared for her and mourned her.
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"Shall mortal man be more just than God? shall a man be more pure than his maker?
Behold, he put no trust in his servants; and his angels he charged with folly.
How much less them that dwell in houses of clay, whose foundation in the dust, are crushed before the moth?" - Eliphaz the Temanite, Job IV, 17-19.
"Yea, though he live a thousand years twice, yet hath he seen no good: do not all go to one place?" - Ecclesiastes VI, 6.
"There are no stupid questions just a bunch of inquisitive idiots."
"Let's not call it 'hijacking'. Let's call it 'Thread Drift'." |
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Kajehase
Great Reader
Sweden
2104 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jul 2010 : 12:11:19
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| Greetings Ed and the Hooded One, I'm afraid I'm going to have to start out by apologising for asking something that's not really related to the Realms, but to Ed as a librarian. On another forum someone was asking for recommendations for kid's books, and having made mine I got to thinking - do people outside Sweden still read Astrid Lindgren enough that I won't potentially have sent someone off on a wild-goose chase? |
There is a rumour going around that I have found god. I think is unlikely because I have enough difficulty finding my keys, and there is empirical evidence that they exist.
Terry Pratchett |
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Kajehase
Great Reader
Sweden
2104 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jul 2010 : 12:20:52
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Oh, and on the subject of cheese:
Which country is the Realms-equivalent of France in terms of having the largest variety of cheeses?
Where is the best hard and soft cheeses made respectively?
And (not at all to do with cheese) is there anywhere in the Realms where the popuöation has hit upon the idea of fermenting herring? (A friendly advise to all scribes - should you come across someone threatening to open a can of this foodstuff: run for it. Or maybe call George W, he deserves to find some WMDs eventually, and this would do the trick. |
There is a rumour going around that I have found god. I think is unlikely because I have enough difficulty finding my keys, and there is empirical evidence that they exist.
Terry Pratchett |
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jul 2010 : 12:25:48
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quote:
Originally posted by Kajehase
Greetings Ed and the Hooded One, I'm afraid I'm going to have to start out by apologising for asking something that's not really related to the Realms, but to Ed as a librarian. On another forum someone was asking for recommendations for kid's books, and having made mine I got to thinking - do people outside Sweden still read Astrid Lindgren enough that I won't potentially have sent someone off on a wild-goose chase?
I would guess that you are thinking about countries a little further away, but just for the record: Their still read here in Norway, but not as much as they were twenty years ago (when you would have to search hard for anyone who didn't know them) I think. Parents still introduce their children to them though and the film and TV versions are still commonly shown. I think most kids would easily recognize the names of the most famous characters and most of the books can be found in any bookshop. Those few that still actually sell books that is. |
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Garen Thal
Master of Realmslore
USA
1105 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jul 2010 : 15:02:14
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quote:
Originally posted by Menelvagor
Re. this: "Perhaps it was not Amedahast that learned from Elminster, but the other way round."
It seems weird to me that Elminster (who by then [later than 376 DR] had been in Myth Drannor [reborn in 261 DR], and met Alea Dahast herself) would have that much to learn from Amedahast. Yet our Lady says it is true. I think it was more of a partnership. Amedahast taught El spells of Baerauble from Netheril, and he taught her spells from Myth Drannor.
In any case, it is probable that Elminster had a hand in helping Amedahast, and probably helped her found the War Wizards. He obviously cared for her and mourned her.
Amedahast was raised and studied in Myth Drannor before her tenure under Baerauble, so it's not really necessary that she have learned its spells from Elminster.
What I'm suggesting isn't that El learned magical abilities or secrets from Amedahast (he is among the most talented spellcasters of his or any generation, after all), but that he may have adopted her tactics and observed her behavior. Although Baerauble was the first of Cormyr's high mages, and its second longest-serving (Thanderahast beats him by a couple of years), Amedahast was by far the most magically talented and far-sighted (although the latter, it could be said, is a title worthy of Vangerdahast, too). It was she who created the War Wizards--yes, even before the Harpers--and the meddling of great mages in Cormyr owes its tradition to her as much as anyone else.
A powerful young Chosen of Mystra, capable in spells but still looking to find a place and a method in the world beyond hurling fireballs at fell villains, could learn much from a woman like that, even one that is younger than himself... |
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jul 2010 : 15:52:16
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Hi again, all. I bring the words of Ed of the Greenwood, in response to two matters:
Hi, Kajehase. The response Jorkens gave to you applies also to Canada and the United States, as far as I call tell from my library contacts. Waning in popularity from twenty years back, but still well known with teachers, educators, and bookish parents, and still in print and readily available in the collections of most libraries.
Longtime Lurker, you are DEAD-ON CORRECT in your post about Elminster. That's exactly where his rank comes from. In American terms, he's somewhat like a Secret Service man: although no one amongst the general population or local police may know his face or name, he has the authority to give orders - - but may run into resistance from those who dispute his authority because they just don't know (or accept) what he is. The average Cormyrean has no idea that the legendary Elminster has any formal or legal connection to Cormyr, and would be slow to believe it.
Once again, I agree with Garen Thal's description of what El and Amedahast learned from each other, and the nature of their working relationship. So consider that confirmed, scribes.
I'm not going to say anything more on Elminster and Cormyr just yet; I'm waiting to see Markustay's "deeper layer."
When the truth is eventually revealed, most of you probably won't be all that surprised (considering Mystra's aims and the duties most of her Chosen are assigned). Anyone who's entertaining images of Elminster busily and literally fathering scores and scores of "daughters" is probably on the wrong track . . . ;}
So saith Ed. Who has revealed more unto me, and I'm quite happy right now as a result. 
love to all,
THO |
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2449 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jul 2010 : 16:11:26
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quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
Anyone who's entertaining images of Elminster busily and literally fathering scores and scores of "daughters" is probably on the wrong track . . . ;}
Not that Elminster would likely complain all that much if Mystra had given him such a duty... |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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Menelvagor
Senior Scribe
Israel
352 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jul 2010 : 16:25:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Garen Thal:
It was she who created the War Wizards--yes, even before the Harpers
I find that hard to accept. As far as I know, The Harpers were founded in the Year of Freedom's Friends (324 DR) which is more than 50 years before Amedahast even came to Cormyr (c. 376 DR) and a century before Cormyr was stable enough just to start founding the War Wizards (432 DR - Duar's victory over Dheolur).
I also do not find this arguement convincing:
quote:
Amedahast was raised and studied in Myth Drannor before her tenure under Baerauble, so it's not really necessary that she have learned its spells from Elminster.
Not that I believe it's untrue, but it's mentioned that she was young when she came to Cormyr. And since she was fully human, this is human young, of course - which probably means no older than 25 at the most. I also get the impression that she never met most of her elven kin - certainly not the greater ones such as Alea - it's mentioned that she never heard the story of Alea and Baerauble meeting. So I do think El would have had much to teach her.
I have to agree with you about her talents, ability and far-sightedness, though. There is no doubt there.
And I actually have a question: Do the High Mages of Cormyr and the rulers know what truly happened in Soldier's Green? It came to my notice while checking info about Amedahast. She asks Azoun (I) about it, and he tells her it was the site of an old settlement wiped out by goblins/orcs. When she tells Baerauble this and that Keolan Dracohorn killed a blue dragon there, he corrects her regarding Keolan, saying that he found the corpse and claimed he killed it and concluding with "Not everything that is claimed as history is true. Remember that." I felt it was very tongue-in-cheek, considering he was the one who invented the Orc/goblin story about the Bleth settlement.
So did Baerauble later reveal the truth to Amedahast? Did she find it out by herself? Or are they all still under the illusion that the Bleth massacre was done by goblins/orcs? |
"Shall mortal man be more just than God? shall a man be more pure than his maker?
Behold, he put no trust in his servants; and his angels he charged with folly.
How much less them that dwell in houses of clay, whose foundation in the dust, are crushed before the moth?" - Eliphaz the Temanite, Job IV, 17-19.
"Yea, though he live a thousand years twice, yet hath he seen no good: do not all go to one place?" - Ecclesiastes VI, 6.
"There are no stupid questions just a bunch of inquisitive idiots."
"Let's not call it 'hijacking'. Let's call it 'Thread Drift'." |
Edited by - Menelvagor on 14 Jul 2010 16:26:57 |
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Garen Thal
Master of Realmslore
USA
1105 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jul 2010 : 17:41:58
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quote:
Originally posted by Menelvagor
quote:
Originally posted by Garen Thal:
It was she who created the War Wizards--yes, even before the Harpers
I find that hard to accept. As far as I know, The Harpers were founded in the Year of Freedom's Friends (324 DR) which is more than 50 years before Amedahast even came to Cormyr (c. 376 DR) and a century before Cormyr was stable enough just to start founding the War Wizards (432 DR - Duar's victory over Dheolur)
The Harpers at Twilight met in 324DR. The modern Harpers weren't formed until 720DR. When I talk about the "Harpers" in this context, I'm talking about the Faerūn-spanning organization of meddlers that we all know and love, the light to the dark of the Zhentarim, and all that, not the smaller group that preceded them.
quote:
Originally posted by Menelvagor
I also do not find this arguement convincing:
quote:
Amedahast was raised and studied in Myth Drannor before her tenure under Baerauble, so it's not really necessary that she have learned its spells from Elminster.
Not that I believe it's untrue, but it's mentioned that she was young when she came to Cormyr. And since she was fully human, this is human young, of course - which probably means no older than 25 at the most. I also get the impression that she never met most of her elven kin - certainly not the greater ones such as Alea - it's mentioned that she never heard the story of Alea and Baerauble meeting. So I do think El would have had much to teach her.
Amedahast was rather young when she came to Cormyr, but I'm not entirely sure what gives you the impression that she was "fully human." In game terms, she's certainly human, but she absolutely has elven blood. And, as has been shown over and over in the various sources, aging works differently for the -dahast mages than it does for others.
I won't comment on whether or not Amedahast ever met Alea (because it's a story question too rich to spoil), but this young woman was a descendant of at least one wizard that helped raise the mythal over Cormanthor (and who was known as the High Lady of Art), and another who was so respected by the elven court that he was given wardship over Cormyr alongside Faerlthann. She was tutored in magic from a very young age.
As for the meeting of Alea and Baerauble (depicted in Cormyr: A Novel), it is not a happy story. At its core, an erudite mage is captured by savage humans, who are slain by grieving, borderline genocidal elves in retaliation for the killing of their own people. It's not like grandma and grandpa meeting at a dance and getting married three weeks later. There's nothing romantic about it.
quote:
And I actually have a question: Do the High Mages of Cormyr and the rulers know what truly happened in Soldier's Green? It came to my notice while checking info about Amedahast. She asks Azoun (I) about it, and he tells her it was the site of an old settlement wiped out by goblins/orcs. When she tells Baerauble this and that Keolan Dracohorn killed a blue dragon there, he corrects her regarding Keolan, saying that he found the corpse and claimed he killed it and concluding with "Not everything that is claimed as history is true. Remember that." I felt it was very tongue-in-cheek, considering he was the one who invented the Orc/goblin story about the Bleth settlement.
So did Baerauble later reveal the truth to Amedahast? Did she find it out by herself? Or are they all still under the illusion that the Bleth massacre was done by goblins/orcs?
Amedahast came to Cormyr knowing very little of the Forest Kingdom's history and lore--and certainly less of its legends. Recall the catechism of rulers that she endured from Baerauble when we first meet her in Cormyr: A Novel; even the most rudimentary of facts are still being drilled into her. Other, more weighty matters are learned later.
Crowned heads and Royal Magicians in Cormyr learn about certain things (such as the events on Solider's/Jester's Green--both those involving Keolan Dracohorn and the Bleth massacre, as well as Ander Obarskyr's folly and countless other things) once their succession is assured and they've been judged capable of handling the knowledge and the wisdom it's meant to convey.
So yes, Baerauble told her about these and many other things... later. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jul 2010 : 18:37:16
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It doesn't matter if Amedehast learned from El, or he from she, and I suspect it was more of a 'mutual giving' and leave it at that.
The fact is, if you think about who Elminster is, and was, then there is something that he lost long ago, something he could never replace.
But.... Cormyr is as close as he will ever come. I had always associated Elminster with The Dales, but the realization I just came to was that that really hasn't been his 'main area' of interest.
And as for the 'Court Rank', both Elminster and Khelben are considered 'War Wizards' (that IS in a novel, and when I asked Ed, he said something to the effect that yes, not all war wizards, or those accorded that rank, live within Cormyr). What I get from that is that people who are especially useful to the Kingdom are occasionally granted a rank similar to 'War Wizard at-large'. In another novel it is clearly shown that there are magical secrets of Obarskyr castle that Khelben knows, that Vangerdehast isn't privy to. I would suspect there are others beside Khelben and Elminster accorded that rank that have yet to be revealed.
Also, from that novel and several others (most notably Cormyr: A Novel), the Mage Royal is NOT loyal to the royal line first, he/she is Loyal to Cormyr first, and the Royals second. Elminster even brings-up the 'what if?' scenario of an obarskyr becoming a threat to the realm.
I also noticed that Ed uses the words 'Harper' and 'High Knight' interchangeably throughout the novel, something I either never noticed before (unlikely), or something just revealed. I knew/suspected some were Harpers, but all? Also note that in times past the Harpers acted discreetly within Cormyr's borders, but they are acting quite openly now that the king is dead, and in fact, appear to be taking commands from the Mage Royal, Alusair, and Filfaeril!
And then there's the 'Royal Curse'..... the only person I know of that has ever modified a bloodline magically is a Magister of Mystra.
Anyhow, the point I am trying to make is that the Chosen, in their function of promoting magic, must also create 'points of light' - places where folks can be free from tyranny that oppreses magical studies. Some haven't 'matured' enough to really do that (Storm and Dove, although I would say Storm's 'assignment' is The Dales), but the others - Cormyr, Waterdeep, Silverymoon, Aglarond, the Promenade. For all we know Mystra may have had plans in that regard for Sammaster.
So, the 'deeper layer' I alluded to was how Mystra chooses her Chosen; Elminster was chosen because of what happened in Athalanter. Unless you have seen what it is like to live in a place where magic is denied some, but not others, then you cannot really ever become 'its champion'. Same with khelben - he was denied his Elven heritage. The Simbul has to stare across the border at Thay every day.
And the reason why Mystra needs people to create the 'Points of light' is simple - to hold back the darkness.
The truth is, The War of Light and Darkness never ended - its been a series of battles since the beginning of time...
...and it ain't over yet. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 14 Jul 2010 19:11:16 |
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Zireael
Master of Realmslore
Poland
1190 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jul 2010 : 18:59:28
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quote:
I won't comment on whether or not Amedahast ever met Alea (because it's a story question too rich to spoil), but this young woman was a descendant of at least one wizard that helped raise the mythal over Cormanthor (and who was known as the High Lady of Art), and another who was so respected by the elven court that he was given wardship over Cormyr alongside Faerlthann. She was tutored in magic from a very young age.
As for the meeting of Alea and Baerauble (depicted in Cormyr: A Novel), it is not a happy story. At its core, an erudite mage is captured by savage humans, who are slain by grieving, borderline genocidal elves in retaliation for the killing of their own people. It's not like grandma and grandpa meeting at a dance and getting married three weeks later. There's nothing romantic about it.
On that note, is anything known about (direct) children of Baerauble and Alea? I mean, their kids, not grand...grand...kids etc. |
SiNafay Vrinn, the daughter of Lloth, from Ched Nasad!
http://zireael07.wordpress.com/ |
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Kyrene
Senior Scribe
South Africa
728 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jul 2010 : 19:00:22
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Ed and/or THO,
Not to derail this fabulous 'Cormyr secrets' discussion, but...
Did Asmra "Blacktresses" Laelock ever learn what her birthmarks really were, or was that always only intended as a DM hook in that long ago "Realmslore: Uthmere" article?
Thanks in advance for your replies.
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Lost for words? Find them in the Glossary of Phrases, Sayings & Words of the Realms
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Garen Thal
Master of Realmslore
USA
1105 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jul 2010 : 19:10:57
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quote:
Originally posted by The Red Walker
Garen,
So did Amedahast have"Darkeyes"?
Afraid I don't know what Darkeyes are, so I can't answer the question. Sorry. |
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Garen Thal
Master of Realmslore
USA
1105 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jul 2010 : 19:17:08
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quote:
Originally posted by Zireael
quote:
I won't comment on whether or not Amedahast ever met Alea (because it's a story question too rich to spoil), but this young woman was a descendant of at least one wizard that helped raise the mythal over Cormanthor (and who was known as the High Lady of Art), and another who was so respected by the elven court that he was given wardship over Cormyr alongside Faerlthann. She was tutored in magic from a very young age.
As for the meeting of Alea and Baerauble (depicted in Cormyr: A Novel), it is not a happy story. At its core, an erudite mage is captured by savage humans, who are slain by grieving, borderline genocidal elves in retaliation for the killing of their own people. It's not like grandma and grandpa meeting at a dance and getting married three weeks later. There's nothing romantic about it.
On that note, is anything known about (direct) children of Baerauble and Alea? I mean, their kids, not grand...grand...kids etc.
Certainly nothing that's been revealed officially, no. More than that, I'm not permitted to say. |
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Blueblade
Senior Scribe
USA
804 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jul 2010 : 19:17:35
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Garten Thal, I think he's getting at "Darkeyes" the female mage who may well have been Mystra. Myrjala? Can't remember...
Markustay, I remember Ed saying not all Highknights are Harpers, but the Harpers were trying to covertly "vet" all Highknights, AND infiltrate them. So no way would Ed be using "Harper" and "Highknight" interchangeably in a novel.
BB
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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3563 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jul 2010 : 19:24:48
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quote:
Originally posted by Garen Thal
quote:
Originally posted by The Red Walker
Garen,
So did Amedahast have"Darkeyes"?
Afraid I don't know what Darkeyes are, so I can't answer the question. Sorry.
I was wondering if she was connected to Myrjala "Darkeyes" in any way. |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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Menelvagor
Senior Scribe
Israel
352 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jul 2010 : 19:52:34
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quote:
Originally posted by Garen Thal:
The Harpers at Twilight met in 324DR. The modern Harpers weren't formed until 720DR.
True, but even then, Ed was a part of them. In fact, if I remember correctly (how I hate not having my books with me) Elminster actually refounded the Harpers in 720 DR in order to do what the old Harpers had done, what with the death of many members including the founder Lady Dathlue, and in order to combat growing evil with the Fall of Myth Drannor.
quote:
Amedahast was rather young when she came to Cormyr, but I'm not entirely sure what gives you the impression that she was "fully human."
The fact that in Cormyr: A Novel it was written: "Amedahast was fully human, the result of many years of mortal blood watering down her elven ancestry"?
quote:
I won't comment on whether or not Amedahast ever met Alea (because it's a story question too rich to spoil)
Are you kidding? I've got to hear this story.
In the end, like Markus said, I don't think it really matters. They probably both learned from each other different things. I simply find it easier to accept that Elminster was (in magic in general) better informed. |
"Shall mortal man be more just than God? shall a man be more pure than his maker?
Behold, he put no trust in his servants; and his angels he charged with folly.
How much less them that dwell in houses of clay, whose foundation in the dust, are crushed before the moth?" - Eliphaz the Temanite, Job IV, 17-19.
"Yea, though he live a thousand years twice, yet hath he seen no good: do not all go to one place?" - Ecclesiastes VI, 6.
"There are no stupid questions just a bunch of inquisitive idiots."
"Let's not call it 'hijacking'. Let's call it 'Thread Drift'." |
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Garen Thal
Master of Realmslore
USA
1105 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jul 2010 : 20:02:32
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quote:
Originally posted by The Red Walker
I was wondering if she was connected to Myrjala "Darkeyes" in any way.
Well, that depends on what you mean.
If you mean "was she familiar with the incarnation of Mystra known as Myrjala," then the answer is "no."
If you mean "was Amedahast a worshiper of Mystra," the answer is undoubtedly "yes."
If you mean "was Amedahast favored by the Lady of Mysteries," the answer is "probably, almost certainly so."
If you mean "was Amedahast a Chosen of Mystra," the answer is "NDA cloudy; ask again later." [In other words: Maybe so, maybe no, but either way, I wouldn't be able to say.] |
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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3563 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jul 2010 : 20:05:42
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quote:
Originally posted by Garen Thal
quote:
Originally posted by The Red Walker
I was wondering if she was connected to Myrjala "Darkeyes" in any way.
Well, that depends on what you mean.
If you mean "was she familiar with the incarnation of Mystra known as Myrjala," then the answer is "no."
If you mean "was Amedahast a worshiper of Mystra," the answer is undoubtedly "yes."
If you mean "was Amedahast favored by the Lady of Mysteries," the answer is "probably, almost certainly so."
If you mean "was Amedahast a Chosen of Mystra," the answer is "NDA cloudy; ask again later." [In other words: Maybe so, maybe no, but either way, I wouldn't be able to say.]
I was thinking along the Lines of 3 and 4.
thanks! |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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Questions for Ed Greenwood (2010)
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