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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
 Posted - 11 Jul 2010 : 17:52:17
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Hi again, all.
I missed a factor re. Ed's answering times, but The Sage caught it: sometimes, Ed is already working on something related to a scribe's lore query, or such current work has sent him on a lore search that has uncovered something relevant to the query along the way, and so he can just answer straight away, instead of searching.
Another sort of delay is when Ed needs to contact someone at WotC for clarification of an NDA, or permission to reveal something (such as, currently, the title of his next Elminster novel after ELMINSTER MUST DIE! - - which he hasn't yet been told he can reveal, but which is printed in the forematter of EL M D). Then he must wait for a response, and we scribes must in turn wait for him to get it and then act on it.
love to all,
THO |
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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3563 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jul 2010 : 17:56:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Broken Helm
Dear Ed, I've always been curious about this cheese. . . 
Seriously, I'd like to know the names and a line of description (color, taste, consistency, used primarily for) of, say, half a dozen local cheeses made in the Dales (and nowhere else). Just for local colour. No rush on this.
Thanks!
I find this very interesting as I am going tomorrow to aquire some Montgomery Cheddar to fit a craving. When I was looking for a local source, I was wondering about cheeses in the realms. |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jul 2010 : 18:01:58
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Kyrene,
Ed's "home" campaign doesn't see all that much action, any more. His players all have busy professional lives and are scattered all over the globe at times. For over a decade, the pattern was: New Year's Day, a full day of Realmsplay, and the Civic Holiday weekend in Canada (first August weekend) up at Ed's cottage: several days of intense game play, with at least two Realmsplay sessions wrapped around all sorts of favourite games, from Mille Bornes and Arkham Horror to Empires of the Middle Ages and Squad Leader. However, since GenCon's move to Indy, increasingly it (or its "travel shadow") has wandered into that weekend.
However, we all still "play" by e-mail with Ed, when the spirit moves us. We don't really use a ruleset, these days (though we began with 1e, then adopted 2e by vote, and have over the years adopted various new classes, new rules, and events [the Time of Troubles we nixed, for "our" campaign], all by voting). For us, it's all about roleplaying, not competitive gaming; we're sharing in a grand, intricate [many subplots], endless unfolding story, not gaming to improve our characters or to "beat" anyone (either monsters or other PCs).
I have played several characters, and, yes, there have been deaths (and raisings). As for memorable, crowning, or funniest, I've answered all of those before, here at the Keep, and have found that my answers change, over time, and it gets increasingly difficult to single out lone examples of such highpoints; it's becoming an ever-richer tapestry. I've been playing with Ed now for thirty-two years straight (however sporadically), after all. Let me think a bit, and see if my answers have changed enough to post new "funniest," most memorable, and so on . . .
love,
THO |
Edited by - The Hooded One on 11 Jul 2010 18:04:13 |
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Kyrene
Senior Scribe
South Africa
729 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jul 2010 : 18:09:42
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quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
Let me think a bit, and see if my answers have changed enough to post new "funniest," most memorable, and so on . . .
love,
THO
I'll search for your previous answers to this. My main query (about how much you still get to play) was answered, so you needn't trouble yourself. |
Lost for words? Find them in the Glossary of Phrases, Sayings & Words of the Realms
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jul 2010 : 21:32:32
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"Ed, tell me about this cheese..." 
Okay, I could have a LOT of fun with that one..... 
Anyway, in another thread something came up that I hadn't really considered before, and since Ed was nice enough to answer my last (tongue-in-cheek) query about Liches (Why do they wear clothes?), I figure this might be something he has given some thought to as well.
Does being turned into an Intelligent Undead set-off any stasis clones the person might have? I would assume being turned into zombie, skeleton, or something else truly 'dead' would, but what about a Lich, or vampire?
That Manshoon clone isn't a real example of this, since it was the clone, and not the living person, who became a Vamp.
And since I am on this tangent, why would a Mage bother to create so many clones? Do the always ALL activate at once, or was that some fluke with Manshoon? I remember there was an 'update clone' spell somewhere, that I believe you created, which would alleviate the need to create repeated (more mature) clones.
Also, how do most Mages feel about clones? I mean, technically, is it REALLY them? I had always assumed that the Mages 'soul', or 'persona', transferred to the clone, but the Manshoon fiasco disproves that theory. Did any of the clones even have a soul? ( or 'spirit', or 'lifeforce') I am asking for you to quantify it in D&D terms, not any sort of RW religious dogma. Its hard for me to wrap my head around this one, since IMHO the 'new' person isn't really the old one, and the Mage is still dead, which makes making a clone rather useless, for the most part.
What about Chosen - are they even allowed to make clones? How do they feel about them? How do druids feel about them? ("upsetting the natural order" and all of that)
Also, getting back to Liches - why bother? Why not just become a Vampire, or some other type of greater undead? Thayans prefer lichdom, but I'm sure their Mulhorandi ancestors preferred becoming Ancient dead (uber-cool Ravenloft term for mummies). Why don't mages just get bitten by a vampire? After all, a Red Wizard would have no trouble feeding upon humans. There are enough spells out there that protect you from light, and just about every other of the vamp's weaknesses. Why wouldn't nearly every single Drow choose this path? They live in the Underdark - that wipes out the main weakness right there.
And if beoming a lich does activate a clone, then I get this very funny picture in my head of a young Szass Tam hiding from his lich-self... is that even possible? Which is the 'real one'? Can the same person be both 'alive' AND 'dead' at the same time? 
One last thing - can you have two types of undead from the same person? In a Xanth novel I read, the ghost of a person ran into their own zombie! Even though those novels are written as humor, I always thought that would make a really cool D&D scenario. How would the spirit of a dead person take having their corpse reanimated? Would it be possible for them to possess the zombie, and thereby become an intelligent undead, similar to an Animus of Greyhawk?
Edit: Isn't lady Saharel the ghost of a lich? You can kill a lich, and it is still possible for them to come back? Shouldn't her 'spirit' (which is all she is now) have been destroyed if her phylactory was destroyed? And if it wasn't, then why didn't she just re-manifest as a lich?
Undeath is SO confusing...... |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 11 Jul 2010 21:44:35 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jul 2010 : 03:43:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
And since I am on this tangent, why would a Mage bother to create so many clones? Do the always ALL activate at once, or was that some fluke with Manshoon? I remember there was an 'update clone' spell somewhere, that I believe you created, which would alleviate the need to create repeated (more mature) clones.
This part I can field, from the original printed description of the spell, in the Ruins of Zhentil Keep boxed set (page 124 of the Campaign Guide)...
quote:
Whenever the original being touches the stasis clone, the clone’s memories, skills and experience levels are updated to match the original being’s. Purely physical differences, such as aging, a wound, or an amputation the original being has gone through, are not mirrored by the clone in this process.
The stasis is normally lifted only when the original being dies, though up to two contingency spells may be applied to any stasis clone to modify when and how it activates. (Note that a stasis clone confined in an airtight or flooded space may perish shortly after awakening.) Multiple stasis clones can be created by repeated castings of this spell. These stasis clones can even be linked to each other by custom-devised transferal spells mated to contingency spells so that the death of the first clone awakens only the second, its death in turn activates just the third, and so on.
Manshoon has used this spell both to escape a final death and to remain young. As he ages, he can update his stasis clone, get himself slain (usually in a reckless attack that destroys an enemy, such as a powerful Red Wizard), and return as a physically younger clone. Several wizards have offered him fantastic sums for a copy of this spell and reportedly have been refused. Others (including apprentices) have perished quite messily at Manshoon’s hands when they attempted to steal the spell.
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Blueblade
Senior Scribe
USA
804 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jul 2010 : 03:48:27
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I seem to remember Ed once saying that undead humans were like living humans in one way: they exhibited infinite variety. In other words, there were ALWAYS "weirdo" exceptions, unique undead that "didn't fit" what most vampires or liches or mummies did and had.
And Manshoon's stasis clone spell worked fine for years and years (one of Ed's novels, CROWN OF FIRE, I think, showed us one of Manshoon's clones activating after his "previous self" died), until SOMETHING made all (or almost all) of the remaining ones activate at once. I think the reason was covered in canon Realmslore, but I'm not sure.
I also seem to recall that WotC "official line" is that there's only one Manshoon left, now (the vampire who formerly ruled Westgate as Orbakh), but that Ed's "official line" is that that's the only surviving Manshoon IN THE REALMS right now (there are others, on other worlds, who may in the future arrive in the Realms . . . or not).
THO? Ed? Can you confirm, correct, or deny? Please?
BB |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jul 2010 : 04:09:02
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
And since I am on this tangent, why would a Mage bother to create so many clones? Do the always ALL activate at once, or was that some fluke with Manshoon? I remember there was an 'update clone' spell somewhere, that I believe you created, which would alleviate the need to create repeated (more mature) clones.
This part I can field, from the original printed description of the spell, in the Ruins of Zhentil Keep boxed set (page 124 of the Campaign Guide)...
quote:
Whenever the original being touches the stasis clone, the clone’s memories, skills and experience levels are updated to match the original being’s. Purely physical differences, such as aging, a wound, or an amputation the original being has gone through, are not mirrored by the clone in this process.
The stasis is normally lifted only when the original being dies, though up to two contingency spells may be applied to any stasis clone to modify when and how it activates. (Note that a stasis clone confined in an airtight or flooded space may perish shortly after awakening.) Multiple stasis clones can be created by repeated castings of this spell. These stasis clones can even be linked to each other by custom-devised transferal spells mated to contingency spells so that the death of the first clone awakens only the second, its death in turn activates just the third, and so on.
Manshoon has used this spell both to escape a final death and to remain young. As he ages, he can update his stasis clone, get himself slain (usually in a reckless attack that destroys an enemy, such as a powerful Red Wizard), and return as a physically younger clone. Several wizards have offered him fantastic sums for a copy of this spell and reportedly have been refused. Others (including apprentices) have perished quite messily at Manshoon’s hands when they attempted to steal the spell.
Also, consider this bit from both the Lady Hooded One, and Ed Greenwood:-
"With respect, folks, some of the discussion here is founded on incomplete understandings. The lower levels of various Manshoon clones aren't "mistakes." Manshoon's clones aren't created by the PHB clone spell, but rather by Manshoon's stasis clone spell (which has been detailed by Ed in 2nd Ed sources, and remember: FR lore isn't trumped by rules edition changes, so just because 3e and 3.5e have come along since then, it DOESN'T mean there isn't still a "stasis clone" spell used by Manshoon. Several scenes in Ed's novels detail the "awakening" of Manshoon's clones, which normally occurred only when the "previous" Manshoon died. The multiple clones, hidden all over the Realms (El has threatened Manshoon in published Realmslore that he knows where they all are), each have the levels, memories, etc. they had when created . . . so some of them are of FAR less power than 'more modern' Manshoons (so killing Manshoon DOES harm him). Manshoon adds new clones from time to time, but what happened with the Manshoon Wars was that all (or almost all) of the clones were awakened at once. Hence all the different levels, etc. To reiterate: there is no "transfer" of existing spells, memories, etc. to a newly awakened clone.
And yes, Manshoon IS the ultimate puppet master among non-liches and non-zulkirs, although there's something going on with Hesperdan that Ed hasn't revealed to us all, yet.
Not trying to rain on the parade here, just to correct things before too many assumptions in reasoning are made based on the wrong clone spell.
love,
THO" |
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Snowblood
Senior Scribe
Australia
388 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jul 2010 : 06:51:12
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| Thank you all and sundry for that extremely detailed reply....it was simple curiosity that made me ask....the very detailed responses by all have clarified for everyone (including me) what goes on 'behind the scenes' in matters pertaining to this scroll and to writers of the realms in general....so again many thanks for that insightful explanation into 'the making of...' a reply here in Ed's scroll..... hugs to all... |
Aryvandaar, Ilythiir, Arnothoi, Orva, Sarphil, Anauria/Asram/Hlondath, Uvaeren, Braceldaur, Ilodhar, Lisenaar, Imaskar, Miyeritar, Orishaar, Shantel Othrieir, Keltormir, Eaerlann, Ammarindar, Siluvanede, Sharrven, Illefarn, Ardeep, Rystal Wood, Evereska are all available here for download:http://phasai.deviantart.com/gallery/
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Edited by - Snowblood on 12 Jul 2010 06:56:57 |
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Zireael
Master of Realmslore
Poland
1190 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jul 2010 : 11:34:23
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Also, getting back to Liches - why bother? Why not just become a Vampire, or some other type of greater undead? Thayans prefer lichdom, but I'm sure their Mulhorandi ancestors preferred becoming Ancient dead (uber-cool Ravenloft term for mummies). Why don't mages just get bitten by a vampire? After all, a Red Wizard would have no trouble feeding upon humans. There are enough spells out there that protect you from light, and just about every other of the vamp's weaknesses. Why wouldn't nearly every single Drow choose this path? They live in the Underdark - that wipes out the main weakness right there.
One last thing - can you have two types of undead from the same person? In a Xanth novel I read, the ghost of a person ran into their own zombie! Even though those novels are written as humor, I always thought that would make a really cool D&D scenario. How would the spirit of a dead person take having their corpse reanimated? Would it be possible for them to possess the zombie, and thereby become an intelligent undead, similar to an Animus of Greyhawk?
Edit: Isn't lady Saharel the ghost of a lich? You can kill a lich, and it is still possible for them to come back? Shouldn't her 'spirit' (which is all she is now) have been destroyed if her phylactory was destroyed? And if it wasn't, then why didn't she just re-manifest as a lich?
Undeath is SO confusing......
I'd love to see these three questions answered.
As for you, Markus, there are two vampire drow in the Realmslore I remember - Shyntlara Auvryndar from Ched Nasad, a cleric and matron mother, and Mass, a vampire drow monk from CotSQ adventure. |
SiNafay Vrinn, the daughter of Lloth, from Ched Nasad!
http://zireael07.wordpress.com/ |
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Menelvagor
Senior Scribe
Israel
352 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jul 2010 : 12:19:42
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| Somehow, I can't help but feel that these queries regarding Manshoon's clones are tied in with my earlier queries about what happens in 'The Many Murders of Manshoon'. |
"Shall mortal man be more just than God? shall a man be more pure than his maker?
Behold, he put no trust in his servants; and his angels he charged with folly.
How much less them that dwell in houses of clay, whose foundation in the dust, are crushed before the moth?" - Eliphaz the Temanite, Job IV, 17-19.
"Yea, though he live a thousand years twice, yet hath he seen no good: do not all go to one place?" - Ecclesiastes VI, 6.
"There are no stupid questions – just a bunch of inquisitive idiots."
"Let's not call it 'hijacking'. Let's call it 'Thread Drift'." |
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Barastir
Master of Realmslore
Brazil
1600 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jul 2010 : 13:10:56
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Also, getting back to Liches - why bother? Why not just become a Vampire, or some other type of greater undead? (...) Why don't mages just get bitten by a vampire?
I think maybe I could answer this one, at least in part. When you're a vampire, you're somehow controlled by your "master", the one that transformed you in what you are. To be a totally free-willed vampire, a mage would have to find a way of releasing (her) himself from this mind control. Besides, becoming a vampire depends on another vampire. Lichdom is a proccess that the wizard researchs alone, and is far more controllable (it's a magic and ritualistic proccess, just the way wizards like).
About clothes, I think maybe many liches are just used to them, from previous life experience. There are the enchanted items (wizard robes, for example), but even when they are not magical, they can have pockets and containers the lich was used to access when he (she) was alive.  |
"Goodness is not a natural state, but must be
fought for to be attained and maintained.
Lead by example.
Let your deeds speak your intentions.
Goodness radiated from the heart."
The Paladin's Virtues, excerpt from the "Quentin's Monograph"
(by Ed Greenwood) |
Edited by - Barastir on 12 Jul 2010 13:13:47 |
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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3563 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jul 2010 : 16:04:14
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Glarasteer Rhauligan .....did Ed ever get to do anything related to why he was initially created ( I vaguely remeber Ed created him for an entirely different reason than the Cormyr novel?)....if not (or if so) has enough time passed in the realms that anything can be shared?
Thanks! |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jul 2010 : 18:15:04
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Heh. Ed says:
Not QUITE enough time has passed, just yet. However, I promise you that the Rhauligan family's tale isn't quite done, that you'll learn SOMEthing tangentially related to it in ELMINSTER MUST DIE! . . . and that I'm awaiting the right opportunity to say more.
Although I mislike "steering" the Spin A Yarn audience at GenCon, mentioning the use of Glarasteer Rhauligan at that seminar would almost, ahem, FORCE me to say more about him....wouldn't it? ;}
So saith Ed. Enjoying being the tease instead of enjoying watching ME be the tease, for once. 
love,
THO |
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Blueblade
Senior Scribe
USA
804 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jul 2010 : 18:21:14
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Dear Ed and THO,
I'm hoping you can provide me with the name of a Cormyrean noble family (or two) who might be known for breeding (superb) horses, that they occasionally or regularly sell on the open market. Plus (if it's not too greedy), some indication of where they breed them, and where they sell them.
Thanks!
BB |
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jul 2010 : 18:23:17
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Traditionally the Huntsilvers and the Cormaerils sold horses, but this is just what I can remember off of the top of my head; Ed will have to provide a proper answer.
Off to him it goeth . . .
love,
THO |
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Baleful Avatar
Learned Scribe
Canada
161 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jul 2010 : 20:02:08
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Dear Ed and THO,
I have in my notes from one of Ed's long-ago GenCon talks (not a seminar, this was one of those "someone meets Ed in a MECCA corridor and starts asking him things, and an hour later he's still standing talking, with a huge audience" times) the following notation:
Ironshar family. Important in trading ointments, physics (medicines), addictive drugs, weapons. Amn, Scornubel, "respectable" in Cormyr, Sembia. Now hunted by Zhents.
Is there anything else you can easily add to this? Some names of family members? Updates? How'd things work out with the Zhents? Ironshar allies?
Thanks!
BA |
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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3563 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jul 2010 : 00:58:33
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quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
Heh. Ed says:
Not QUITE enough time has passed, just yet. However, I promise you that the Rhauligan family's tale isn't quite done, that you'll learn SOMEthing tangentially related to it in ELMINSTER MUST DIE! . . . and that I'm awaiting the right opportunity to say more.
Although I mislike "steering" the Spin A Yarn audience at GenCon, mentioning the use of Glarasteer Rhauligan at that seminar would almost, ahem, FORCE me to say more about him....wouldn't it? ;}
So saith Ed. Enjoying being the tease instead of enjoying watching ME be the tease, for once.
love,
THO
Isn't he just a saucy little tart?
and I was inspired to ask about dear Glarasteer when I read the Rhauligan name in the "free realmslore" on the WOTC site. |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jul 2010 : 02:14:01
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I have a question, or rather, need an affirmation, but I'm not sure if I post it, and I'm correct, Ed would appreciate me broadcasting my latest 'epiphany' all over the web.
And if he won't or can't answer me, he wouldn't even be able to say as much, since that would give me my answer right there.
It has to do with Ed's original campaign in the Realms - I think I finally uncovered enough layers to find the 'core truth', which I'm not sure his players even ever managed to unveil.
Lets just say I finished re-reading Elminster's Daughter at about 6AM, and in my bleary, half-asleep consciousness a bunch of disparate lore all clicked into place. MANY hints in that novel, but also a few others he has been sprinkling liberally about for years.
The first time I read it, I noticed Elminster was acting a bit differently then in the past, and I had chalked it up to his trip to Hell in the previous work. Although I still think that may have something to do with his... tired... attitude, I think a LOT more may hinge on Vangerdehast.
Am I on the right track here?
That part is just a small bit of what I realized, but I don't want to start listing everything that I suddenly saw in a new light and give anything away. I'm just glad I re-read that book and noticed all the 'strangeness' the second time around.
Of course, just before finally falling asleep, I glimpsed yet-another layer deeper still.. one that connects many more bits of lore, and one that makes the Spellplague more... palatable.
I'll leave that one alone... things divine are best-left mysterious. As Elminster says in the novel, "ye know the saying about wizards never letting slip their secrets?"
BTW, have Speaking Stones ever been detailed, mentioned, or discussed anywhere else in Realmslore? 
{and no-one else bother to PM me - I won't answer anyone until I get a response from Ed, and if I don't get one at all, I'll just keep my yap shut.............. for once). |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jul 2010 : 03:49:14
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Hi again, all.
Markustay, Ed makes swift and delighted reply:
I do believe you're onto something. Yes.
The question is: what? ;}
ELMINSTER MUST DIE! may seem to confuse matters a bit more, when you read it, and I must tread VERY carefully in regards to what I say, but . . . Markustay, why don't you share some of your conclusions here, in this thread? Then I MIGHT be able to partially confirm, or hint more, or encourage . . .
I'm very pleased that someone has noticed certain things, and doubly pleased that it's someone who sees the value of leaving mysteries in place.
So let's see how far we can hint, and speculate, and confirm, together . . .
So saith Ed. Uttering a last line that sounds like one of mine (if delivered in a suitable purr-cum-whisper, with batted eyelashes and meaningful looks).
Oh, this IS exciting . . .
love,
THO |
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3240 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jul 2010 : 03:55:26
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| Hmmm... Now I have to go through the dozen different theories I have and see which one matches what MT's talking about. |
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
Ashe's Character Sheet
Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jul 2010 : 09:28:43
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I had a VERY long response here, but then I realized I gave away way too much (if I'm right). So here is a tiny clip of what I originally had -
A lot of the pieces fell into place when my mind started to wander, half-asleep, right after reading that final scene where Filfaeril makes the statement 'daughters of Elminster'.
Three 'daughters', figuratively or no, all working for Cormyr. Filfaeril was a lot more then just the Queen in Cormyr, wasn't she? Thats why Vangerdehast blustered around Azoun, but tip-toed around her.
The High Knights - HARPERS ALL - listen to HER - Cormyr's 'secret police'.
But that isn't the heart of what I realized.. that was the tip of the iceberg.
Harpers... Elminster... Cormyr... it all makes so much sense now.
Let me know if this is the right track...
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"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 13 Jul 2010 20:23:36 |
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Kyrene
Senior Scribe
South Africa
729 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jul 2010 : 12:21:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Filfaeril was a lot more then just the Queen in Cormyr, wasn't she?
That would also explain why she was always so 'forgiving' of Azoun's 'tumblings'... One does not break deep-cover unless told to do so by one's handler. |
Lost for words? Find them in the Glossary of Phrases, Sayings & Words of the Realms
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gomez
Learned Scribe
Netherlands
254 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jul 2010 : 16:27:24
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My theory of Elminster's daughters would actually involve someone else entirely.
Ok, it is more wild speculation, it's probably way wrong, though it might add an interesting layer even though it has little value in 4th ed. and is by now fairly useless.
Anyway.
I'm not really 'into' all the Cormyran relations, I haven't read of Ed much yet (I just finished the Knights of Myth Drannor and the Shandril sagas, but they weren't really my taste, sorry).
If Filfaeril would turn out to be Elm's daughter, for instance (and I personally don't think she is, at least not directly), I don't think that would be particularly intriguing. I think she works 'better' if she is a bit more mundane (as far as that is possible for a Queen). You can make people too 'special'. Filfaeril, so far, works for me because I have not read any mind-boggling stuff about her (yet, anyway).
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3240 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jul 2010 : 16:41:22
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quote:
Originally posted by gomez
My theory of Elminster's daughters would actually involve someone else entirely.
Ok, it is more wild speculation, it's probably way wrong, though it might add an interesting layer even though it has little value in 4th ed. and is by now fairly useless.
Anyway.
I'm not really 'into' all the Cormyran relations, I haven't read of Ed much yet (I just finished the Knights of Myth Drannor and the Shandril sagas, but they weren't really my taste, sorry).
If Filfaeril would turn out to be Elm's daughter, for instance (and I personally don't think she is, at least not directly), I don't think that would be particularly intriguing. I think she works 'better' if she is a bit more mundane (as far as that is possible for a Queen). You can make people too 'special'. Filfaeril, so far, works for me because I have not read any mind-boggling stuff about her (yet, anyway).
Spoiler:
At the end of Elminster's Daughter, it is stated that she is one of El's many daughters. |
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
Ashe's Character Sheet
Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jul 2010 : 17:06:19
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Filfaeril and Laspeera aren't literally daughters of Elminster. As Ed has said, here at Candlekeep, in the past:-
"Narnra is a “direct” daughter of Elminster; Laspeera and Filfaeril were bending the truth a little to make her feel better when they spoke thus: they’re among Elminster’s many grand and great-grand, and great-great-grand (and so on) -children." |
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"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3240 Posts |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jul 2010 : 20:31:22
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RIGHT...
But that works even better for my train of thought... the 'Daughters of Elminster'...
Doesn't matter if they are direct children, or descendants, - If most, or even all, are within Cormyr, then what does that make Elminster?
You know... the guy who trained all of Cormyr's Mage-Royals? The guy who trained khelben (who placed the wards around the Obarskyrs). The guy who out-ranks Caladenei (who out-ranks nobles - only one specific group out-ranks her).
You know... the Prince of Athalanter?
And I've probably already said too much. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 13 Jul 2010 20:32:56 |
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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3563 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jul 2010 : 20:55:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
RIGHT...
But that works even better for my train of thought... the 'Daughters of Elminster'...
Doesn't matter if they are direct children, or descendants, - If most, or even all, are within Cormyr, then what does that make Elminster?
You know... the guy who trained all of Cormyr's Mage-Royals? The guy who trained khelben (who placed the wards around the Obarskyrs). The guy who out-ranks Caladenei (who out-ranks nobles - only one specific group out-ranks her).
You know... the Prince of Athalanter?
And I've probably already said too much.
No you should say on, since the Lady Hooded asked you to do so here in this scroll(she will stop you when or if she feels the need, but she was most welcoming of your line of thought), you are now only being a thinly veiled flirt!
And this all would seem to point to El being the "father" of Cormyr and most likely best buds as well as wenching and drinking partners with the old Purple Dragon |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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Edited by - The Red Walker on 13 Jul 2010 20:58:22 |
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Garen Thal
Master of Realmslore
USA
1105 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jul 2010 : 21:17:38
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
RIGHT...
But that works even better for my train of thought... the 'Daughters of Elminster'...
Doesn't matter if they are direct children, or descendants, - If most, or even all, are within Cormyr, then what does that make Elminster?
You know... the guy who trained all of Cormyr's Mage-Royals? The guy who trained khelben (who placed the wards around the Obarskyrs). The guy who out-ranks Caladenei (who out-ranks nobles - only one specific group out-ranks her).
You know... the Prince of Athalanter?
And I've probably already said too much.
A few points:
I. Elminster did not train all of Cormyr's Mages Royal. In fact, he trained only one of its Royal Magicians: Vangerdahast.
1) Baeruable was trained in magic before taking on the job, and also studied under Alea Dahast (his future bride).
2) Amedahast studied under Baerauble
3) Thanderahast studied under Amedahast
4) Jorunhast studied under Thanderhast
5) Vangerdahast studied under Elminster, among other tutors, in large part because Jorunhast was exiled, and therefore could not train his successor directly (at least, not fully)--because such training involves being inside of Cormyr.
6) Caladnei was not a wizard, but a sorcerer, which altered the whole nature of 'training.' What training she did receive for the post of Royal Magician, however, was done under Vangerdahast.
I won't get into Caladnei's successor, because that's 'current Realms time,' and therefore might step on future lore.
II.Not all, or even most, of Elminster's Daughters reside in Cormyr. The Old Mage has a few of them and more to spare, and Narnra, Laspeera and Filfaeril account for only three of them. At the time of Elminster's Daughter, you can be assured that there were more illegitimate daughters of Azoun IV inside of Cormyr than descendants of Elminster (or at least, who knew that they were).
III.Elminster's rank inside Cormyr is murky at best. While Storm Silverhand (for example) is the Marchioness Immerdusk, and holds the appropriate privileges thereof, Elminster holds a place of honor without being called by a particular title (at least, none that I can recall without re-checking sources I haven't read in some time)--in fact, the Prince of Athalanter might have rank, but he doesn't 'outrank' anyone at court. His authority over Caladnei is not absolute, or even mostly complete; it's more of the fact of his experience, his mastership over the Harpers, and his rank in service to Mystra. In Cormyr, the Mage Royal answers only to the Crown.
However, the situation in Elminster's Daughter is special for two reasons:
First, it was the first time in Cormyr's history when a Royal Magician assumed the post with her predecessor alive and within Cormyr's borders. And, despite the fact that Vangerdahast was retired, to assume that he would let anyone truly run the place without him peeking in is... naive.
Second, Caladnei was, without question, given instructions to follow, even if Vangerdahast had been slain or otherwise lost contact. Among those instructions were certainly extra folks to whom Caladnei needed to answer, until she came into her own: the Obarskyr royals, of course, but also Laspeera and Elminster and probably a few others. |
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Questions for Ed Greenwood (2010)
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