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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore

5036 Posts

Posted - 09 May 2010 :  16:33:53  Show Profile  Visit The Hooded One's Homepage Send The Hooded One a Private Message
Hi again, all.

braunusvald, Ed of course wrote all of the Volo's beer lore; I was hoping to cajole him into giving us hitherto-unseen additional information. We'll see how that turns out.

Damian and Blueblade, I know that there were a dozen or so prominent families of Esparin, that eight or nine of them named themselves "lords and ladies" and that Sembia recognized and used such titles (largely to ingratiate themselves with those families on a face-to-face trading level, and secondly to anger Cormyr). My notes have the surnames of six of those families (all of whom still survive, scattered throughout the Fallen Stars lands, though most of those who dwell in Sembia changed their names generations ago to avoid Cormyrean attention), but I know nothing at all about them; we'll have to wait for Ed to put flesh on these bones, so to speak.
The names are: Baerungar, Bracegauntlet, Hasgram, Mornim, Naerbold, and Rook (that last one is pronounced to rhyme with "hook").
One of them (I know not which one) used a curved hunting horn (horizontal, with ends curving upwards, mouthpiece to the dexter) as its badge, but I don't know which one.
love,
THO
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore

5036 Posts

Posted - 09 May 2010 :  16:40:25  Show Profile  Visit The Hooded One's Homepage Send The Hooded One a Private Message
Hi again!
Caolin, re. this: "But, I would make it so that those who learned magic without the Weave would still be free to use their Weaveless magic."
Over several years and editions of the game, in discussions with Ed (and hearing him in GenCon seminars with TSR and later WotC designers) I think this will always be the case. As in: the Weave was only ever one way of accessing the nature forces and energies of the world, and there were other, less popular magical systems that functioned as well as the Weave. To arcane spellcasters, the Weave IS magic, but it's really a way of understanding (and therefore accessing) the infinitely complex weave of interacting energies. There are other ways.
So, yes, warlocks and sorcerers and others wouldn't "lose their powers" if the Weave was refounded.
To all scribes: please do NOT take this post as meaning: "The Weave is going to be refounded, and The Hooded One knows it." Not so. I have no inkling of what may or may not happen in the published Realms (and if Ed does, he would be morally and legally bound not to tell me).
We're just speculating, here. [big grin, pulls dress closed again] Officer.

love,
THO
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore

5036 Posts

Posted - 09 May 2010 :  17:01:09  Show Profile  Visit The Hooded One's Homepage Send The Hooded One a Private Message
And hello once more, scribes!
I just received an e-mail from Ed, this one a reply to Joran Nobleheart's query from a page back: "Would it be all right if I asked what Mr. Greenwood's original inspiration was for the city of Myth Drannor, and how he came up with the name? "
Ed replies:


Of COURSE it's all right. :}
I saw the elves of the Realms as a sophisticated, advanced race, now jaded and fading before the vigor and exploding population numbers of humans, and early on wanted to have a "lost city" of the elves, fabled for its abandoned treasure (gems, magic, and tools/everyday objects) that had remained unplundered for centuries because of the dangers of its ruins deep in the forest (the demons and devils, AND some everpresent magical effects that altered the local "way things work" [[i.e. prevented wizards just teleporting into the ruins, snatching something, and teleporting out again]].
I wanted this city to be a fallen, tragic place, what was left of a brief shining example of elves, humans, dwarves, and others all dwelling, working, loving, and achieving together (and then I wanted to do what I did in ELMINSTER IN MYTH DRANNOR: show that the elves weren't "holier" than humans, but subject to the same rages, pettinesses, prejudices, and so on that humans are).
The concept of a field of magical effects (a "super-ward," or better put, a web of hundreds of wards) that had outlasted all of its casters but was now decaying in interesting (sometimes deadly) ways was too juicy NOT to use (it was a development of an old idea in fantasy and sf that I recall being very vividly brought to life in one of James H. Schmitz's Hub tales of Dasinger's agency, where a crashed spaceship has a still-operating fear projector aboard that killed the crew and prevents later visitors from getting any of the valuable gem cargo).
I cast around for a name for this concept, and my mind threw up the word "mythal" (yep, I made it up, and yes, the word "myth" is obviously the root source), and from that immediately came the idea that lots of cities would be called "Myth this" or "Myth that" to denote that they had a mythal; it would be a source of pride. A mythal could keep inhabitants comfortably warm without burning firewood, for instance, in deep arctic winter, so people could come to live and trade knowing the time, effort, and expense of just keeping from freezing could be avoided.
For my own campaign purposes (I was playing D&D by this time, though the published Realms was still in the future), I wanted the "big danger" to suddenly go away, to create a "gold rush" amongst adventurers, to make the ruined city one vast run-and-gun fighting playground that my players could send their characters to, whenever they wanted, to fight a few more monsters, grab a little more treasure, and so on. However, I had superb players, and they immediately thought of the larger issue of keeping the most powerful magic out of the hands of grubby adventurers (and local tyrants or would-be tyrants in Zhentil Keep, Hillsfar, Mulmaster, Calaunt, and Sembia), and preserving the ruins for wiser folk (like the elves) to enter and refound the once-great City of Song.
That first city became "Myth Drannor" (DRANN-NOR, by the way, not "DRAIN-or"), again, because my mind just tossed it up (I can name things easily). Then came "Myth Rhynn," though I had no idea what city that name would be attached to . . . and then everybody got into the act, Steven Schend and Eric Boyd naming many "Myth cities" and detailing them, and coming up with detailed cities to go with other "Myth" names that my mind had so casually spewed out.
So there you are; the hitherto-partly-untold tale of the naming of Myth Drannor. Essential Realmslore. Enjoy. ;}


So saith Ed. White-bearded creator of the Realms, Myth Drannor, mythals, and so much else the rest of us all take for granted in gaming...
love,
THO
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createvmind
Senior Scribe

490 Posts

Posted - 09 May 2010 :  17:42:26  Show Profile  Visit createvmind's Homepage Send createvmind a Private Message
"For one brief shining moment, that was known as..."


BTW Excalibur is one of my favorite all time movies now that you've mentioned it.
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Jakk
Great Reader

Canada
2165 Posts

Posted - 09 May 2010 :  18:22:07  Show Profile Send Jakk a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One

And hello once more, scribes!
<chop>
...Then came "Myth Rhynn," though I had no idea what city that name would be attached to . . . and then everybody got into the act, Steven Schend and Eric Boyd naming many "Myth cities" and detailing them, and coming up with detailed cities to go with other "Myth" names that my mind had so casually spewed out.
...<snip>



So... is the list of known mythal cities compiled by Eric L. Boyd and Steven Schend on the REALMS-L list complete as of pre-Spellplague canon, or are there other lost, ruined, or otherwise difficult-to-find mythal cities known to the sages (or others) of the Realms circa 1375DR that have not seen print yet and are not NDA'd?
(he asks, hopefully...)

Many thanks to both of you again, Ed and THO, for being here for the scribes of Candlekeep.

Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.

If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic.
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Caolin
Senior Scribe

649 Posts

Posted - 09 May 2010 :  18:57:17  Show Profile Send Caolin a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One

Hi again!
Caolin, re. this: "But, I would make it so that those who learned magic without the Weave would still be free to use their Weaveless magic."
Over several years and editions of the game, in discussions with Ed (and hearing him in GenCon seminars with TSR and later WotC designers) I think this will always be the case. As in: the Weave was only ever one way of accessing the nature forces and energies of the world, and there were other, less popular magical systems that functioned as well as the Weave. To arcane spellcasters, the Weave IS magic, but it's really a way of understanding (and therefore accessing) the infinitely complex weave of interacting energies. There are other ways.
So, yes, warlocks and sorcerers and others wouldn't "lose their powers" if the Weave was refounded.
To all scribes: please do NOT take this post as meaning: "The Weave is going to be refounded, and The Hooded One knows it." Not so. I have no inkling of what may or may not happen in the published Realms (and if Ed does, he would be morally and legally bound not to tell me).
We're just speculating, here. [big grin, pulls dress closed again] Officer.

love,
THO



Well, at least logic exists in the concept of a renewed weave. Thanks!
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crazedventurers
Master of Realmslore

United Kingdom
1073 Posts

Posted - 09 May 2010 :  22:48:13  Show Profile  Visit crazedventurers's Homepage Send crazedventurers a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
[The names are: Bracegauntlet,


Thank you Good Lady

The Bracegauntlets are also a current noble family based in Marsember - one suspects the acceptable face of the family, with the dispossessed out of the way in upcountry Sembia plotting and scheming (ahhh internal noble family poltics makes for a very interesting game )

Kind regards

Damian

So saith Ed. I've never said he was sane, have I?
Gods, all this writing and he's running a constant fantasy version of Coronation Street in his head, too. .
shudder,
love to all,
THO
Candlekeep Forum 7 May 2005
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Joran Nobleheart
Senior Scribe

USA
489 Posts

Posted - 09 May 2010 :  23:31:32  Show Profile  Visit Joran Nobleheart's Homepage Send Joran Nobleheart a Private Message
Thank you very much for the information and insights! I really am very impressed, and Myth Drannor remains a great place to go in my home Realms. It's made such an impact on my PCs as well as my group... thank you!

Paladinic Ethos
Saint Joran Nobleheart
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Joran Nobleheart
Senior Scribe

USA
489 Posts

Posted - 10 May 2010 :  08:04:43  Show Profile  Visit Joran Nobleheart's Homepage Send Joran Nobleheart a Private Message
I was just wondering something, after looking through The Complete Paladin's Handbook from 2nd Edition. Page 101 of that book talks about land acquisition through charters, the matter of a benefice, grants, and even purchasing undeveloped land from the crown in some cases. My question is can a person purchase land from the throne in Cormyr, and if so how much would an acre of undeveloped property go for in 1374 DR? Or is land only given to nobles through the royal gift, and unavailable to attain in any other way? Thank you for your time.

Paladinic Ethos
Saint Joran Nobleheart
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Zireael
Master of Realmslore

Poland
1190 Posts

Posted - 10 May 2010 :  08:54:41  Show Profile  Visit Zireael's Homepage Send Zireael a Private Message
Look into Volo's Guide to Cormyr - I think there was most of the info you're looking for. And the Stonelands offer still holds in 1374 DR...

SiNafay Vrinn, the daughter of Lloth, from Ched Nasad!

http://zireael07.wordpress.com/
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Jakk
Great Reader

Canada
2165 Posts

Posted - 10 May 2010 :  09:00:32  Show Profile Send Jakk a Private Message
I believe Zireael has the right of it, but I too am curious about this point, Ed. My continuing Realms storyline, now into its fifth campaign and third DM since the OGB, has had most of our PCs carve out holds in the North, but our current group is now likely to get established in Cormyr after beginning their adventures in the Waterdeep area. Many thanks again for your time and insight.

Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.

If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic.
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Joran Nobleheart
Senior Scribe

USA
489 Posts

Posted - 10 May 2010 :  09:09:28  Show Profile  Visit Joran Nobleheart's Homepage Send Joran Nobleheart a Private Message
I think that Volo's Guide to Cormyr only has information on getting permits and the like to carry weapons, sell arms and the like, but I'll look it over in more detail tomorrow in case I missed something.

Paladinic Ethos
Saint Joran Nobleheart
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Steven Schend
Forgotten Realms Designer & Author

USA
1631 Posts

Posted - 10 May 2010 :  15:16:59  Show Profile  Visit Steven Schend's Homepage  Send Steven Schend a Yahoo! Message Send Steven Schend a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One

Kyrene, I can't recall which TSR designer did that section of Aurora's (it was a "gang" product, with everyone at the company pitching in on a section). Shadowdark Ale came from Ed's notes, and most of the wines that follow on pages 129 and 130 are taken directly from his lore-notes, but the rest of the named brews were the work of someone(s) at TSR at the time.
However, Dragon's Breath (or "the breath of the dragon") is a VERY old fantasy trope, referenced in many long-ago Arthurian tales and several romances at the time of Amadis of Gaul and Palmerin of England (the literary genre Cervantes was lampooning in DON QUIXOTE; yes, THAT long ago), so the Aurora's brew might have nothing at all directly to do with the Sierra game. I just don't know.
Karen Boomgaarden, Bruce Heard, or Jeff Grubb might recall who did that section. Hmm...
love,
THO



I'll confess to being the demented soul whose first official canon Realmslore was the beers and ales section of Aurora's Catalogue. (After all, any stuff I'd written in DRAGON was considered unofficial until reprinted in an actual game product.)

If memory serves correctly, Julia Martin (with Ed's and Karen's and my input on the sidelines) did the wines section for the same book.

Of course, I'm going from 20-year-old memory without coffee here, so I might be misremembering.

Steven
who always planned to print up ELMINSTER'S CHOICE labels for beers he brewed himself that didn't work out (as the label makes it look like it says "Elminster's Choke" and the gag was this was a bad beer in the Realms)

For current projects and general natter, see www.steveneschend.com
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore

5036 Posts

Posted - 10 May 2010 :  15:37:34  Show Profile  Visit The Hooded One's Homepage Send The Hooded One a Private Message
Hello again, all.

Damian, Ed confirms that you're quite right: the Bracegauntlets are the Esparin noble family that "made the jump" to the Cormyrean noble ranks (my addition: very probably for service to Cormyr's kings during the battles with Esparin, i.e. siding with Cormyr).

Steven: Aha! You're the tankard-meister! Good man! If ever our paths cross, let's hoist some brews together ! (With your good wife, of course - - and knowing the course of my life, Oscar might well be old enough to be downing them with us, by the time we get to do this.)

Joran, Ed says that most Crown land in Cormyr is given as a royal gift. The exceptions are urban properties no noble would want (i.e. a rotting warehouse near the docks) and places that the Crown wants settled (on the borders of the realm, i.e. along the border with Sembia, around the Bridge of Fallen Men, and [ahem] near the Stonelands, specifically from the overland trade-roads north to the Stonelands, to more heavily settle [and therefore secure] the lands north and northeast of the Hullack Forest as part of Cormyr). There is no "set price;" it varies by who's trying to buy, how much they're trying to buy, what the quality of that land is, for farming, and the location of the land (urban, close to good roads, close to large settlements versus remote) - - and of course the price has increased over time.
BTW, the "acre" is a term still slowly creeping into the Realms, thanks to Elminster ("hectare" is still unknown), and most properties in Cormyr would officially be measured in "chains" or "chainsquares" (the surveyor's chain being a linear measurement, and the "chainsquare" being a square area measurement consisting of one chain per side; chains rather than rigid "ruler"-like measures are used so as to be able to handle irregular shapes).
I'll try to get back to you with some typical prices.

And that's the daily roundup, thus far. I hope to make contact with Ed late tonight, after he gets home from work (shifts changed due to employee illness), so there MIGHT be more Realmslore forthcoming. Or not. Life is busy, folks.
love,
THO
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crazedventurers
Master of Realmslore

United Kingdom
1073 Posts

Posted - 10 May 2010 :  15:43:56  Show Profile  Visit crazedventurers's Homepage Send crazedventurers a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One

Hello again, all.
BTW, the "acre" is a term still slowly creeping into the Realms, thanks to Elminster ("hectare" is still unknown), and most properties in Cormyr would officially be measured in "chains" or "chainsquares" (

Hello Good Lady THO

Do the Realms also use Perch, Rod, Pole, Furlong, Lug, Rood etc as units of measurements?

And a follow-up Esparin question to Ed if I may? Was Gondegal descended from an exiled Esparrin family and did he use a coat of arms?

Cheers

Damian

So saith Ed. I've never said he was sane, have I?
Gods, all this writing and he's running a constant fantasy version of Coronation Street in his head, too. .
shudder,
love to all,
THO
Candlekeep Forum 7 May 2005

Edited by - crazedventurers on 10 May 2010 15:49:21
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Jorkens
Great Reader

Norway
2950 Posts

Posted - 10 May 2010 :  15:56:58  Show Profile Send Jorkens a Private Message
Just a quick question before I forget Dear Lady; in Dragon #72 ,page 15, in the article Gems Galore Ed mentions the Dalering Mountains as a place in the Realms, as far as I remember this name never shows up in later sources. Would it be possible to get some more information on this? Is it a name that was changed by other writers, an alternative name or a limited area of another range?

Thanks in advance.
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crazedventurers
Master of Realmslore

United Kingdom
1073 Posts

Posted - 10 May 2010 :  16:05:29  Show Profile  Visit crazedventurers's Homepage Send crazedventurers a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Jorkens

Just a quick question before I forget Dear Lady; in Dragon #72 ,page 15, in the article Gems Galore Ed mentions the Dalering Mountains as a place in the Realms, as far as I remember this name never shows up in later sources. Would it be possible to get some more information on this? Is it a name that was changed by other writers, an alternative name or a limited area of another range?

Thanks in advance.


Thats a great question Jorkens - it is part of the 'this stone is found in the Thunderpeaks, Storms Horns and Dalering mountains' so the assumption is that the Dalering are in the same geographical area - the only ones that spring to mind are The Desertmouth Mountains?

Very nice spot

Cheers

Damian

So saith Ed. I've never said he was sane, have I?
Gods, all this writing and he's running a constant fantasy version of Coronation Street in his head, too. .
shudder,
love to all,
THO
Candlekeep Forum 7 May 2005

Edited by - crazedventurers on 10 May 2010 16:06:08
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capnvan
Senior Scribe

USA
592 Posts

Posted - 10 May 2010 :  18:18:40  Show Profile  Visit capnvan's Homepage Send capnvan a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Steven Schend

*snip*
Steven
who always planned to print up ELMINSTER'S CHOICE labels for beers he brewed himself that didn't work out (as the label makes it look like it says "Elminster's Choke" and the gag was this was a bad beer in the Realms)



Thanks, SES! I, for one, always appreciate any and all Wormy references!

"Saving a life, though regrettable, is a small price to pay for a whole lifetime of unfettered killing."
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Joran Nobleheart
Senior Scribe

USA
489 Posts

Posted - 10 May 2010 :  23:11:52  Show Profile  Visit Joran Nobleheart's Homepage Send Joran Nobleheart a Private Message
Oh, very interesting! I appreciate the information and greatly look forward to hearing more on some of the prices one could expect to pay. Thank you.

Paladinic Ethos
Saint Joran Nobleheart
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Brimstone
Great Reader

USA
2868 Posts

Posted - 10 May 2010 :  23:37:07  Show Profile Send Brimstone a Private Message
Well, I just finished reading the Sample Chapters from Elminster Must Die, in Circle of Skulls.

Cormyr, El, The Simbul, another Chosen, War Wizards, High Knights, Scheming Nobles. Good to see Cormyr hasn't changed to much.

THO please Tell Ed, thank you...

"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore

5036 Posts

Posted - 11 May 2010 :  00:11:49  Show Profile  Visit The Hooded One's Homepage Send The Hooded One a Private Message
Ah, the sneak preview is out in the world at last!
How many sample chapters appeared? (I THINK the novel has a Prologue, Epilogue, and thirty-something chapters in between, but that's largely an educated guess on my part, estimating from 3,000-plus words per Ed-fave-length chapter and the usual Ed novel wordcount, not from having seen the actual text.)
love,
THO
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Elfinblade
Senior Scribe

Norway
377 Posts

Posted - 11 May 2010 :  01:10:53  Show Profile Send Elfinblade a Private Message
Even though i'm getting Circle of Skulls in the mail in a couple of weeks, i find myself itching for the sample chapters from El Must Die. Have they been released elsewhere, mayhaps on the web?

-Stig-
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Blueblade
Senior Scribe

USA
804 Posts

Posted - 11 May 2010 :  01:59:35  Show Profile  Visit Blueblade's Homepage Send Blueblade a Private Message
crazedventurers, methinks Gondegal's blazon has been discussed here at the Keep, some years back.
Sage? Wooly?
BB
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Broken Helm
Learned Scribe

USA
108 Posts

Posted - 11 May 2010 :  02:08:38  Show Profile  Visit Broken Helm's Homepage Send Broken Helm a Private Message
crazedventurers, I recall Ed at last year's GenCon mentioning a "bowshot" being used as a short-distance measurement in Cormyr, Sembia, the Dales, and the Moonsea. Yes, some sort of "standard" length that an arrow can be sent, with a particular weight-draw of bow. Someone pointed out that such a measurement would inevitably vary, and Ed grinned and replied that, guess what? ALL measurements varied (the cubit, et al) until an actual physical standard got created, in very modern times, and he figured that they would all vary in the Realms, too.
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31687 Posts

Posted - 11 May 2010 :  02:13:37  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Blueblade

crazedventurers, methinks Gondegal's blazon has been discussed here at the Keep, some years back.
Sage? Wooly?
BB

It "does" sound familiar.

Let me search through the archives.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)

"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood

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