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Caolin
Senior Scribe

660 Posts

Posted - 07 May 2010 :  01:51:49  Show Profile Send Caolin a Private Message
Hmm, the return of the Weave and a god/goddess of Magic. I like it and fully support it. But, I would make it so that those who learned magic without the Weave would still be free to use their Weaveless magic. So in a sense, the new god/goddess of Magic would have be tasked with converting those who learned to live without them. So you would have two camps, Weave magic (easier to use but restricted in power) and Weaveless or raw magic (harder to use but it's power is much less limited).

Now for my Ed question, my first btw. I am a brewer of beer and I want to create a character for an upcoming game whos is proficient in brewing. What information could you give me about brewing in the Realms and maybe what types of brews that are popular throughout the Realms.

Thanks!
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore

5043 Posts

Posted - 07 May 2010 :  02:04:52  Show Profile  Visit The Hooded One's Homepage Send The Hooded One a Private Message
Ho ho! Many of Ed's original players either worked in breweries or brewed their own, in younger days, and one of them, Ken Woods, co-founded the Black Oak Brewery in Oakville, Ontario, a microbrewery that has won many awards for its brews, and flourishes to this day (with Ken in the saddle). This question should be right down Ed's alley, so to speak . . .
In published Realms canon, pages 127 through the first item on page 129 of AURORA'S WHOLE REALMS CATALOG describes popular ales of the Realms (covering Bitter Black, Dragon's Breath Beer, Elminster's Choice, Golden Sands Brews (a collective heading; three main types are noted: Basic, Gold, and Orange), Iriaeboran North Brew, Luiren's Best, Old One Eye, Shadowdark Ale, and "Suzale." However, this roster is FAR from comprehensive.
Off your query goes to Ed, and no doubt he'll reply as soon as he can (boy, is he busy right now!).
love,
THO
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Caolin
Senior Scribe

660 Posts

Posted - 07 May 2010 :  04:13:08  Show Profile Send Caolin a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One

Ho ho! Many of Ed's original players either worked in breweries or brewed their own, in younger days, and one of them, Ken Woods, co-founded the Black Oak Brewery in Oakville, Ontario, a microbrewery that has won many awards for its brews, and flourishes to this day (with Ken in the saddle). This question should be right down Ed's alley, so to speak . . .
In published Realms canon, pages 127 through the first item on page 129 of AURORA'S WHOLE REALMS CATALOG describes popular ales of the Realms (covering Bitter Black, Dragon's Breath Beer, Elminster's Choice, Golden Sands Brews (a collective heading; three main types are noted: Basic, Gold, and Orange), Iriaeboran North Brew, Luiren's Best, Old One Eye, Shadowdark Ale, and "Suzale." However, this roster is FAR from comprehensive.
Off your query goes to Ed, and no doubt he'll reply as soon as he can (boy, is he busy right now!).
love,
THO



Nice! You know, I kind of figured there were some brewer/gamers hanging around the Great North. One small additional specific question. Do Realms brewers have knowledge of yeast? I know that yeast was unknown in the non-fictional world until about 200 years ago. Before then no one knew what actually caused the beer to ferment. They just knew that if they followed a certain process, the resulting liquid would eventually ferment and was quite tasty. I look forward to Ed's answer.
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader

USA
3747 Posts

Posted - 07 May 2010 :  06:00:06  Show Profile  Click to see Alystra Illianniis's MSN Messenger address Send Alystra Illianniis a Private Message
Any chance we can ever see any of El's writings as Realmslore? I'd love to see some of those songs nd chapbooks!!!

The Goddess is alive, and magic is afoot.

"Where Science ends, Magic begins" -Spiral, Uncanny X-Men #491

"You idiots! You've captured their STUNT doubles!" -Spaceballs

Lothir's character background/stats: http://forum.candlekeep.com/pop_profile.asp?mode=display&id=5469

My stories:
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Lothir, courtesy of Sylinde (Deviant Art)/Luaxena (Chosen of Eilistraee)
http://sylinde.deviantart.com/#/d2z6e4u
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31690 Posts

Posted - 07 May 2010 :  06:24:03  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis

Any chance we can ever see any of El's writings as Realmslore? I'd love to see some of those songs nd chapbooks!!!

Milady Hooded One, I'll second this request... especially the bit asking about songs.

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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)

"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood

Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage
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gomez
Learned Scribe

Netherlands
254 Posts

Posted - 07 May 2010 :  06:56:10  Show Profile  Visit gomez's Homepage Send gomez a Private Message
In the God Catcher, magic is still referred to as the Weave (I have not seen that elsewhere yet, so I wonder how common that practice is?).

I don't know of any other Weave references, except in a RPGA adventure I wrote, where a former servant to Azuth states that the Weave and Mystra are gone forever. Of course, that servant could be wrong or lying (especially considering the circumstances) but I believe that is R&D's stance at the moment.
Just remember that speculation can be fun - but it hardly ever productive :P

Gomez

Edited by - gomez on 07 May 2010 06:57:15
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Kyrene
Senior Scribe

South Africa
648 Posts

Posted - 07 May 2010 :  09:15:56  Show Profile  Visit Kyrene's Homepage Send Kyrene a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One

...Dragon's Breath Beer...
love,
THO


I have to pounce on this one, being a great fan of the original Quest for Glory (or Hero's Quest by the Coles from Siera Games back in the day). Was that put into the AWRC as an homage to QfG, or did the Coles possibly put it in QfG in reference to the AWRC? Or is it simply a very popular name for a brew in fantasy settings?

Lost for words? Find them in the Glossary of Phrases, Sayings & Words of the Realms

I am a sexy, shoeless god of war!

The Sellplague began, for all intents and purposes, in the dominions of the Corporation. Greed murdered Good Design, unraveling common sense in the cosmos and destroying her dominion. At the same time, Sales Fears and Warcraft Envy happened into alignment. This cataclysmic coincidence led to upheaval, shaking apart the primeval order, opening up holes in wallets, and reshaping everything...
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Elfinblade
Senior Scribe

Norway
377 Posts

Posted - 07 May 2010 :  11:12:46  Show Profile Send Elfinblade a Private Message
quote:
Hmm, the return of the Weave and a god/goddess of Magic. I like it and fully support it. But, I would make it so that those who learned magic without the Weave would still be free to use their Weaveless magic. So in a sense, the new god/goddess of Magic would have be tasked with converting those who learned to live without them. So you would have two camps, Weave magic (easier to use but restricted in power) and Weaveless or raw magic (harder to use but it's power is much less limited).


Good points all of them, and i too would like to throw my support to this particularly hopeful idea. Might be a reach, but a man can dream


quote:
Ho ho! Many of Ed's original players either worked in breweries or brewed their own, in younger days, and one of them, Ken Woods, co-founded the Black Oak Brewery in Oakville, Ontario, a microbrewery that has won many awards for its brews, and flourishes to this day (with Ken in the saddle). This question should be right down Ed's alley, so to speak . . .
In published Realms canon, pages 127 through the first item on page 129 of AURORA'S WHOLE REALMS CATALOG describes popular ales of the Realms (covering Bitter Black, Dragon's Breath Beer, Elminster's Choice, Golden Sands Brews (a collective heading; three main types are noted: Basic, Gold, and Orange), Iriaeboran North Brew, Luiren's Best, Old One Eye, Shadowdark Ale, and "Suzale." However, this roster is FAR from comprehensive.
Off your query goes to Ed, and no doubt he'll reply as soon as he can (boy, is he busy right now!).
love,
THO



Ah a topic close to my own heart! Just one tiny addition to this would be great. Lady, could you please ask Ed (or maybe from your own scrolls if he ever presented it to you in one of your games) about some local ales/meads in the southern Delimbiyr Vale, or in the area betwixt The High Forest and The High Moor? The towns Loudwater, Zelbross and Secomber spring to mind, although i suspect they get a lot of their ales and spirits from Waterdeep?

-Stig-
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Brimstone
Great Reader

USA
2905 Posts

Posted - 07 May 2010 :  13:44:08  Show Profile Send Brimstone a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by gomez

In the God Catcher, magic is still referred to as the Weave (I have not seen that elsewhere yet, so I wonder how common that practice is?).

I don't know of any other Weave references, except in a RPGA adventure I wrote, where a former servant to Azuth states that the Weave and Mystra are gone forever. Of course, that servant could be wrong or lying (especially considering the circumstances) but I believe that is R&D's stance at the moment.
Just remember that speculation can be fun - but it hardly ever productive :P

Gomez



Gomez check out this scroll.

"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore

5043 Posts

Posted - 07 May 2010 :  16:22:13  Show Profile  Visit The Hooded One's Homepage Send The Hooded One a Private Message
Kyrene, I can't recall which TSR designer did that section of Aurora's (it was a "gang" product, with everyone at the company pitching in on a section). Shadowdark Ale came from Ed's notes, and most of the wines that follow on pages 129 and 130 are taken directly from his lore-notes, but the rest of the named brews were the work of someone(s) at TSR at the time.
However, Dragon's Breath (or "the breath of the dragon") is a VERY old fantasy trope, referenced in many long-ago Arthurian tales and several romances at the time of Amadis of Gaul and Palmerin of England (the literary genre Cervantes was lampooning in DON QUIXOTE; yes, THAT long ago), so the Aurora's brew might have nothing at all directly to do with the Sierra game. I just don't know.
Karen Boomgaarden, Bruce Heard, or Jeff Grubb might recall who did that section. Hmm...
love,
THO
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore

5043 Posts

Posted - 07 May 2010 :  20:22:49  Show Profile  Visit The Hooded One's Homepage Send The Hooded One a Private Message
Hi, again, all.
Caolin, I’ve found a few beer mentions in the notes I took from things Ed’s said in play in recent years (this is FAR from all of Ed’s beer lore, just a sampling).
All of these were ordered and drunk at taverns in the Dales, Cormyr, Sembia, and around the Moonsea:

• Railur’s Red (a “red” amber ale made in the coastal lands of Cormyr and Sembia with three roast barleys, citrus rinds, and spices, and drunk throughout eastern Cormyr, Sembia, and the Dales).

• Old Black Goblin (a porter that contains cherrywood ash and licorice root, and really IS black; expensive, hard to find, and offered with haughty pride by expensive clubs in the cities of Cormyr and Sembia; it is brewed in secret backcountry locations, and the recipe and brewing are rumored to be controlled by a noble family that in recent decades has been much enriched by sales of its distinctive “hunched-black-stick-figure” branded kegs).

• Sarmsark (a bitter, strong-tasting, but light on the stomach ale much favoured by cheap taverns because patrons can drink a lot of it before feeling ill; tastes of orange rind [[real-world: not-very-sweet marmalade]], is made by many brewers using a widely-known method, and is plentiful and found throughout the Inner Sea lands.)

• Firesword (an amber ale traditionally made in Hillsfar, Yulash, and Zhentil Keep, and now found throughout the Moonsea and Dragonreach lands; with so many brewers in different places making similar beers, “firesword” now varies widely in taste and quality, but has long been an “inn standard” because it keeps well in a keg, and can be “revived” in taste if very old by warming it and dissolving honey into it).

• Battledale Dark (a thick, almost chewy stout made in Battledale a century ago, and recently revived by an enterprising Sembian brewer who settled in Battledale).


That's all so far, but there's lots more in the notes I haven't reached yet. We'll see what Ed adds to this.
love,
THO
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The_Silversword
Seeker

USA
32 Posts

Posted - 07 May 2010 :  23:31:52  Show Profile  Send The_Silversword an AOL message Send The_Silversword a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by gomez

In the God Catcher, magic is still referred to as the Weave (I have not seen that elsewhere yet, so I wonder how common that practice is?).



Its listed in the glossary in the 4e FRCG: "Weave,the: A term for magic; once used to mean magic mediated by Mystra."

So yeah I'd say that the term is still in use to mean magic.

I survived the Great OTTer Purge of 2013 and all I got was this stupid sig.
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Caolin
Senior Scribe

660 Posts

Posted - 08 May 2010 :  05:00:38  Show Profile Send Caolin a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One

Hi, again, all.
Caolin, I’ve found a few beer mentions in the notes I took from things Ed’s said in play in recent years (this is FAR from all of Ed’s beer lore, just a sampling).
All of these were ordered and drunk at taverns in the Dales, Cormyr, Sembia, and around the Moonsea:

• Railur’s Red (a “red” amber ale made in the coastal lands of Cormyr and Sembia with three roast barleys, citrus rinds, and spices, and drunk throughout eastern Cormyr, Sembia, and the Dales).

• Old Black Goblin (a porter that contains cherrywood ash and licorice root, and really IS black; expensive, hard to find, and offered with haughty pride by expensive clubs in the cities of Cormyr and Sembia; it is brewed in secret backcountry locations, and the recipe and brewing are rumored to be controlled by a noble family that in recent decades has been much enriched by sales of its distinctive “hunched-black-stick-figure” branded kegs).

• Sarmsark (a bitter, strong-tasting, but light on the stomach ale much favoured by cheap taverns because patrons can drink a lot of it before feeling ill; tastes of orange rind [[real-world: not-very-sweet marmalade]], is made by many brewers using a widely-known method, and is plentiful and found throughout the Inner Sea lands.)

• Firesword (an amber ale traditionally made in Hillsfar, Yulash, and Zhentil Keep, and now found throughout the Moonsea and Dragonreach lands; with so many brewers in different places making similar beers, “firesword” now varies widely in taste and quality, but has long been an “inn standard” because it keeps well in a keg, and can be “revived” in taste if very old by warming it and dissolving honey into it).

• Battledale Dark (a thick, almost chewy stout made in Battledale a century ago, and recently revived by an enterprising Sembian brewer who settled in Battledale).


That's all so far, but there's lots more in the notes I haven't reached yet. We'll see what Ed adds to this.
love,
THO



Many thanks THO! Me thinks I might want to try an Old Black Goblin.
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khorne
Master of Realmslore

Finland
1071 Posts

Posted - 08 May 2010 :  13:59:20  Show Profile  Visit khorne's Homepage  Click to see khorne's MSN Messenger address Send khorne a Private Message
Ed, what is your opinion of Helm? Personally, I've been intrigued by him ever since I as a young whippersnapper played Baldur's Gate 2 and heard the line "Never betray trust. Such is the way of the vigilant one". He is the god of guardians, and can one can therefore assume that he is rather uptight, but he's also very fond of children, who are most definitely NOT uptight. He's also unique, since he was the only god not to become mortal during the time of troubles. Out of all the scores of gods in the Realms, only he was deemed worthy by Ao. Only he had not failed.

So now I ask the creator himself, what his opinion is on the Eternal Guardian.

If I were a ranger, I would pick NDA for my favorite enemy
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore

5043 Posts

Posted - 08 May 2010 :  15:51:20  Show Profile  Visit The Hooded One's Homepage Send The Hooded One a Private Message
Hi again, all. I bring you the words of Ed of the Greenwood, in swift response to khorne's post about Helm, directly above:


Hi, khorne! Great question.
Helm has always been one of my favourites among the deities of the Realms. I created him to be staunch and steadfast and true, one of the very few who "stood unshakeably for one thing" rather than an intriguer or liar or dabbler in many portfolios and mortal doings. In this, he's similar to, say, Eldath and the other nature deities, but essentially different in that they are tied to living things that grow and change (and change in where and how they are found within the Realms), whereas Helm stands unmoved, because his "thing" is a principle.
Helm is the ultimate loner, and THE "hardass." He won't back down, even if it means his obvious destruction. He's the guy in the movie EXCALIBUR who says flatly, "I saw what I saw. The boy drew the sword."
I admire Helm greatly, and yet see him as a tragic figure, BECAUSE he's so dedicated. Where other deities can trick, make love, woo, get drunk, enjoy experiences, and so on, Helm is ever-vigilant, always "on the job."
So I designed him deliberately to have a softer, more affectionate side (that other designers like Eric Boyd and Julia Martin have picked up and expanded on) to make Helm less one-dimensional and therefore more resilient.
By his nature, Helm will never be a "mover," a force to start conflicts or grand plans or adventures. He's an obstacle; the closed door, the gate that must be won past, the ultimate sentinel. If you're not among the very strongest gods or haven't cobbled together a fighting alliance of strong gods, you CAN'T force your way past him. You can only win past by trickery (VERY hard to do) or by reasoning with Helm and truly presenting your cause as "more just" or the like.
All of which, in a real world full of deceit, half-truths, "spin," and outright misrepresentation, makes me admire Helm all the more. I thought it was important to separate the vigilant guardian from justice (Tyr) and other, similar gods (Torm, Tempus), and as time passes, I'm ever more convinced that I was right.
Yeah, I look up to the guy, fictional creation though he is. And isn't that success in itself, giving me (and, I hope, others) a "touchstone anchor" in life?
I hope this helps.


So saith Ed. Who still hopes to provide details of priesthoods somewhere, somehow, and somewhen...
love to all,
THO

Edited by - The Hooded One on 08 May 2010 15:52:28
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crazedventurers
Master of Realmslore

United Kingdom
1073 Posts

Posted - 08 May 2010 :  17:52:55  Show Profile  Visit crazedventurers's Homepage Send crazedventurers a Private Message
Tantam All!

Ed a question (or three!) about Espar and Esparin and any relationship with Hullack the Druid if I may please?

I had always assumed that Espar was the capital of/or named after the now absorped Kingdom of Esparin (re: the Enchara lore from the Haunted Halls module). Obviously given what is written in 'The Sword that Never Sleeps' novel this appears not to be the case?

So is Espar named after Esparin and if so why is it on the western reaches of Cormyr rather than the north east where the Kingdom of Esparin was based? (the only theory I can come up with is that this is a deliberate choice by the Crown/Court Wizard to throw folks who are looking for Lost Esparin into the wrong area and therefore conceal the Lost Palace?).

Can you say anything more about Esparin? Was it a breakaway kingdom that came back into the fold? From printed lore its history revolves around Enchara and her marrying Palaghard I in the 12th century after he conquered it. So we have plenty of time for it to 'pop up' in the history of Cormyr before especially as it is based near Arabel and Cormyr 'proper' - it would seem to me therefore to be a short lived Kingdom?

Re the heraldry of Esparin with the Unicorn - made up as new or derived from a rebel family that broke from Cormyr? Or does the unicorn and trees have any link with the Hullack forest and/or Hullack himself? I ask because of the timeframe:

- From Pages from the Mages VI we learn that Hullack led the druids of the Wyvernwater 200 years ago (say 1100DR or so) about the same time Esparin was in force? We also know that the druids were slain by beholders who were served by gargoyles, bugbears, and quicklings. The eye tyrants sought to establish a realm in the area.

- Futhermore the 'Men in Green' used the Crystum of Tranquility to slay the Beholder King sometime after 1112DR when they recived the Crystrum from Shalgreth of the Wings (a member of the Hullack Circle given the preceeding lore in the 2E Prayers from the Faithful write up?)

Three pieces of Realmslore within a similar timeframe and similar location - just wondering if there is a connection between Esparin and Hullack?

Thanks Ed and THO for your time

Lammath Drios!

Damian

So saith Ed. I've never said he was sane, have I?
Gods, all this writing and he's running a constant fantasy version of Coronation Street in his head, too. .
shudder,
love to all,
THO
Candlekeep Forum 7 May 2005

Edited by - crazedventurers on 08 May 2010 21:05:20
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore

5043 Posts

Posted - 08 May 2010 :  22:36:53  Show Profile  Visit The Hooded One's Homepage Send The Hooded One a Private Message
Hi, Damian! I sent your questions off to Ed, and received back a lightning-swift response (he’s just back from a funeral, and it seems he sat right down to answer them). So here we go . . .

“Ed a question (or three!) about Espar and Esparin and any relationship with Hullack the Druid if I may please?”

Of course, Damian! Your queries are ALWAYS welcome; fire away! :}


“I had always assumed that Espar was the capital of/or named after the now absorbed Kingdom of Esparin (re: the Enchara lore from the Haunted Halls module). Obviously given what is written in 'The Sword that Never Sleeps' novel this appears not to be the case?”

Espar is named after the vanished kingdom, yes, but it wasn’t always its capital (see next answer).


“So is Espar named after Esparin and if so why is it on the western reaches of Cormyr rather than the northeast where the Kingdom of Esparin was based? (The only theory I can come up with is that this is a deliberate choice by the Crown/Court Wizard to throw folks who are looking for Lost Esparin into the wrong area and therefore conceal the Lost Palace?).”

Yerespar began as a marketmoot around the westernmost fortress (which stood hard by the hilltop “Stronghold” seen in SWORDS OF EVENINGSTAR, that the young future Knights played in; the Stronghold of today is actually the stone foundations of a cottage outbuilding of the royal mansion of Esparin, the keep that guarded that mansion having been entirely torn apart by Cormyrean fortresses, and the stones carried off for use in building the later Cormyrean cottages of Espar and elsewhere) of Esparin.
In the early years of Esparin’s existence, its seat of power was to the east, and it was then that what’s known today as “the Lost Palace” was built.
Later, as the Esparrin came to increasingly to depend on covert supplies of arms, mercenaries, mounts, food, and coin from certain nobles of Cormyr, the capital of the realm was moved to Yerespar, and it was renamed “Espar,” and the royal mansion and “Sword Keep” were built there.
The mansion was torched and utterly destroyed, along with Sword Keep, but the cottage had been blasted to bits by a wizard’s spell earlier in the conflicts between Esparin and Cormyr (in a failed attempt to slay royal Esparrin), and had been forgotten and never rebuilt, so its overgrown foundations survived.
After Palaghard wed Enchara and Esparin fell to Cormyr, the inhabitants of Esparin who were willing to swear loyalty to Cormyr’s Crown were allowed to remain in Espar (many retiring Purple Dragons were given land to settle on in and around Espar for decades thereafter, to “anchor” it in loyal hands). The other Esparrin had either been slain in battle with Cormyr, or were driven off, or had fled (most of them into the Dales and northern, backcountry Sembia, where there’s a distaste for Cormyr that lingers to this day).
So as not to “poke the sleeping dragon” of local anger against the Court in Suzail, the name “Espar” was tolerated and allowed to stand, rather than being replaced - - and yes, a factor in that decision was its location as the westernmost fringe of the conquered kingdom, rather than its heart (so, indeed, rebels and others seeking “Lost Esparin” were misdirected into the wrong area).


“Can you say anything more about Esparin? Was it a breakaway kingdom that came back into the fold? From printed lore its history revolves around Enchara and her marrying Palaghard I in the 12th century after he conquered it. So we have plenty of time for it to 'pop up' in the history of Cormyr before especially as it is based near Arabel and Cormyr 'proper' - it would seem to me therefore to be a short lived Kingdom?”

Esparin was a relatively short-lived kingdom, but rather than being a breakaway, it was more of a separately-founded place, in the northern wilderlands of the area between the Thunder Peaks and the Stormhorns, that the Purple Dragon lost to the elves, and the elves faded away before the ever-expanding human settlements of. In other words, the elves had already decided to give up the futile bloodshed of resisting the humans, and quietly surrender the territory west of the Thunder Peaks, retreating to the Elven Court (though some of them lingered in the Hullack). There were many dissatisfied humans from other lands who sought new lands where they could dwell in less oppression and more prosperity. Esparin was founded by one such (circa 1020 DR, though there are disputes as to the exact date and founder) and resisted the “authority” of exploring bands and monster-scouring patrols from Cormyr, eventually becoming raiders of Cormyr and being seen as “outlaw rebels” by Cormyr.
Esparrin always considered themselves owners and citizens of their own land, that had as much right to exist as “that other kingdom” of Cormyr to the south, and although they first mistrusted exiles from Cormyr and fugitives from Cormyrean justice as “spies sent among us,” over time they became proud to welcome “fellow oppressed” from Cormyr, to swell their ranks.
When Proster was king of Cormyr, he ignored Esparin’s rise, but his more famous son Baerovus saw Esparin as a threat when he came to the throne, and gave battle to its forces whenever he saw good opportunity. In the seemingly eternal struggle between House Obarskyr and the nobles of Cormyr who weren’t on the Dragon Throne, Esparin was secretly supported by some of those noble families to weaken the Obarskyrs (in hopes that they could be supplanted on the throne) and by wealthy merchants of Marsember who hoped to win independence for Marsember from a Cormyr weakened and embroiled in a war with Esparin.


“Re. the heraldry of Esparin with the Unicorn - made up as new or derived from a rebel family that broke from Cormyr? Or does the unicorn and trees have any link with the Hullack forest and/or Hullack himself? I ask because of the timeframe:

- From Pages from the Mages VI we learn that Hullack led the druids of the Wyvernwater 200 years ago (say 1100DR or so) about the same time Esparin was in force? We also know that the druids were slain by beholders who were served by gargoyles, bugbears, and quicklings. The eye tyrants sought to establish a realm in the area.

- Futhermore the 'Men in Green' used the Crystum of Tranquility to slay the Beholder King sometime after 1112DR when they recived the Crystrum from Shalgreth of the Wings (a member of the Hullack Circle given the preceding lore in the 2E Prayers from the Faithful writeup?)

Three pieces of Realmslore within a similar timeframe and similar location - just wondering if there is a connection between Esparin and Hullack?”

The only real connection (though local tales speak darkly of many more) is that one (the beholders) sought to take advantage of the distraction afforded by another (Esparin) in their battles with Cormyr.
The rise of the beholders certainly pushed more of the elves out of the Hullack and east the mountains, right out of what became Cormyr. Hullack himself, and the druids, were on friendly-to-neutral terms with Esparin because the Esparrin were wise enough not to make foes of them, whereas Hullack’s relationship with expanding Cormyr was NOT friendly.
Hullack and the Esparrin were never, so far as is known by later loremasters, battle-allies.
The unicorn-and-trees heraldry of Esparin is related to the trees of the Hullack and King’s Forest, and the wilderlands north of both and between both (which were then largely uncleared for farming and still heavily wooded). Unicorns were legendarily numerous in those now-vanished “in between” forests, and one of the noble families of Cormyr that secretly supported Esparin, House Ulmair, used the unicorn as its badge and the chief charge of its blazon.
However, two prominent families of Esparin, the Darlreths and the Melmanes, also had unicorn badges and blazons.
(The Ulmairs are extinct as a noble house of Cormyr, but have numerous descendants in Westgate, and the Darlreths and Melmanes are widely believed to have been exterminated in Palaghard’s conquest of Esparin, but in fact numerous descendants survive scattered across Sembia.)

I hope these answers are helpful. I hope to say much more about Esparin eventually, just as I hope to reveal the full lineage of Cormyr some day . . . but I’ve got an unfinished novel on my plate, first! (And a Spin A Yarn not yet done, second! And . . . )


Heh. So saith Ed, creator of the Realms and its busy, busy handyman, makeover co-ordinator, and tour guide.
love,
THO

Edited by - The Hooded One on 08 May 2010 22:38:59
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Blueblade
Senior Scribe

USA
804 Posts

Posted - 08 May 2010 :  22:49:27  Show Profile  Visit Blueblade's Homepage Send Blueblade a Private Message
YES! More Esparin lore, please Ed! please, please please! (A few monarchs in a row, a fistful of the most prominent families [how did they get classified or recognized as noble? Did anyone outside their borders ever really treat them as noble?], royal regalia if any, legends/prophecies/sayings? Prominent faiths? ANYTHING?)
Thanks in advance!
Yes, I'll wait, I know your platter is more than full, and not just from six years of lore queries asked here...
BB
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crazedventurers
Master of Realmslore

United Kingdom
1073 Posts

Posted - 08 May 2010 :  23:53:24  Show Profile  Visit crazedventurers's Homepage Send crazedventurers a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One

Hi, Damian! I sent your questions off to Ed, and received back a lightning-swift response (he’s just back from a funeral, and it seems he sat right down to answer them). So here we go . . .


WOW WOW WOW

More than I hoped for and with such alacrity - many many thanks Ed and THO for your generosity.

If it wasn't so late here I am sure I would have more to say and more questions to ask, but it seems Blueblade has summed it up quite well

Best wishes

Damian
ps sorry to hear about the loss of a friend; good friends are treasured as bright flames to light our lives

So saith Ed. I've never said he was sane, have I?
Gods, all this writing and he's running a constant fantasy version of Coronation Street in his head, too. .
shudder,
love to all,
THO
Candlekeep Forum 7 May 2005

Edited by - crazedventurers on 09 May 2010 00:01:18
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Joran Nobleheart
Senior Scribe

USA
489 Posts

Posted - 09 May 2010 :  02:36:51  Show Profile  Visit Joran Nobleheart's Homepage Send Joran Nobleheart a Private Message
Hello again. I just thought of a question that might be a little odd, but I hope is one that has an interesting story behind it and recalls fond memories for Mr.Greenwood and yourself, Lady THO. Would it be all right if I asked what Mr. Greenwood's original inspiration was for the city of Myth Drannor, and how he came up with the name? Thank you for your time, and I wish you all of my best.

Paladinic Ethos
Saint Joran Nobleheart
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althen artren
Senior Scribe

USA
778 Posts

Posted - 09 May 2010 :  03:55:24  Show Profile Send althen artren a Private Message
Hi Ed and THO,

Bringing in a question from another thread I started.

In CEoE, there is stated that the elves send out
assassins to those mages who get close to recreating
"The Killing Storms" I once thought I saw a name
somewhere in published Realms lore, but cannot
remember where.

Am I insane, or is there a formal group that has been mentioned?
If I am insane, please don't tell me. I don't want to know.
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Jakk
Great Reader

Canada
2165 Posts

Posted - 09 May 2010 :  06:30:48  Show Profile Send Jakk a Private Message
Well met, Ed and THO... I'm posting (a) to second althen's request for information regarding the killing storms and the elven assassins... and (b) to comment on your reply regarding Helm. He's always been one of my favourite Realms deities as well, and in my Realms, Tyr leaves the Faerunian pantheon to reunite with his fellows in the Norse pantheon (I have developed the islands north of the continent "Anchorome" as the original homeland of the Illuskans/Northmen, and the Norse pantheon is native to Toril, discovering Earth's Scandinavian people in their astral wanderings and briefly adopting them as their own before being run out by a burgeoning monotheistic faith and calling their avatars back home...)... and Helm takes Tyr's place in the Triad. The portfolio and domain of justice also pass to Helm, who is elevated to greater deity status as a result of these events.

No questions of my own this time; just sharing a very small part of what I've done with the wonderful world you've given us to play in.

Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.

If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic.

Edited by - Jakk on 09 May 2010 06:33:36
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braunusvald
Acolyte

USA
13 Posts

Posted - 09 May 2010 :  09:05:10  Show Profile  Visit braunusvald's Homepage Send braunusvald a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One

Hi, again, all.
Caolin, I’ve found a few beer mentions in the notes I took from things Ed’s said in play in recent years (this is FAR from all of Ed’s beer lore, just a sampling).
All of these were ordered and drunk at taverns in the Dales, Cormyr, Sembia, and around the Moonsea:

• Railur’s Red (a “red” amber ale made in the coastal lands of Cormyr and Sembia with three roast barleys, citrus rinds, and spices, and drunk throughout eastern Cormyr, Sembia, and the Dales).

• Old Black Goblin (a porter that contains cherrywood ash and licorice root, and really IS black; expensive, hard to find, and offered with haughty pride by expensive clubs in the cities of Cormyr and Sembia; it is brewed in secret backcountry locations, and the recipe and brewing are rumored to be controlled by a noble family that in recent decades has been much enriched by sales of its distinctive “hunched-black-stick-figure” branded kegs).

• Sarmsark (a bitter, strong-tasting, but light on the stomach ale much favoured by cheap taverns because patrons can drink a lot of it before feeling ill; tastes of orange rind [[real-world: not-very-sweet marmalade]], is made by many brewers using a widely-known method, and is plentiful and found throughout the Inner Sea lands.)

• Firesword (an amber ale traditionally made in Hillsfar, Yulash, and Zhentil Keep, and now found throughout the Moonsea and Dragonreach lands; with so many brewers in different places making similar beers, “firesword” now varies widely in taste and quality, but has long been an “inn standard” because it keeps well in a keg, and can be “revived” in taste if very old by warming it and dissolving honey into it).

• Battledale Dark (a thick, almost chewy stout made in Battledale a century ago, and recently revived by an enterprising Sembian brewer who settled in Battledale).


That's all so far, but there's lots more in the notes I haven't reached yet. We'll see what Ed adds to this.
love,
THO



Greetings to all on these page this is my first "real" post on these boards - just in addition to Mr Greenwoods personal listing of brews, these older tomes have more than a few samplings of spirits found in the taverns and inns of the realms (I stumbled across a site whos owner had compiled all of the listings on one board, sadly I don't have the link to it)

Volo's Guide to Cormyr
Volo's Guide to the Dalelands
Volo's Guide to the North
Volo's Guide to the Sword Coast
Volo's Guide to Waterdeep


Could a Kercpa swing a Rod of lordly Might? All hail the mighty rodent!
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Jorkens
Great Reader

Norway
2950 Posts

Posted - 09 May 2010 :  11:28:30  Show Profile Send Jorkens a Private Message
That's great information about Esparin.

And on a bit of a sad non-Realmsian note; with the recent death of John Eric Holmes (if this is not a case of internet at its worst), the ranks of the early D&D designers are thinning rapidly. With Arneson, Gygax and Moldvay recently gone, this becomes another addition to the ranks of the sadly departed creators of the game.

I was wondering whether Ed had any thoughts/experiences he would like to share concerning these early writers and their effect on his views/experiences of the game?
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Snowblood
Senior Scribe

Australia
388 Posts

Posted - 09 May 2010 :  15:19:59  Show Profile Send Snowblood a Private Message
Any more on Braceldaur dear ED?????

Aryvandaar, Ilythiir, Arnothoi, Orva, Sarphil, Anauria/Asram/Hlondath, Uvaeren, Braceldaur, Ilodhar, Lisenaar, Imaskar, Miyeritar, Orishaar, Shantel Othrieir, Keltormir, Eaerlann, Ammarindar, Siluvanede, Sharrven, Illefarn, Ardeep, Rystal Wood, Evereska are all available here for download:http://phasai.deviantart.com/gallery/
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