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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
 Posted - 16 Oct 2009 : 15:24:04
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I didn't see a topic for the 4E Dungeon Master's Guide 2 so here it is. I've flipped through the pages at my local Chapters and although I havne't DMed in over a year and a half (I used to be the regular DM) this looks like it not only gives good advice for running 4E but general good ideas like what we used to get in Dragon Magazine (then Dungeon). Does anyone have this, and what are your opinions?
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Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4430 Posts |
Posted - 23 Oct 2009 : 19:27:58
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| Hmmm... I haven't looked through the book and I was on the fence about getting it or not. What sort of topics does the book cover? |
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Bluenose
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
134 Posts |
Posted - 24 Oct 2009 : 14:17:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
Hmmm... I haven't looked through the book and I was on the fence about getting it or not. What sort of topics does the book cover?
The best chapter imo is the one about how to design skill challenges, which includes plenty of examples both good and bad. It also has material on trap design, magic item design, on companion characters, monster creation, running games without magic items (basically, give people inherent bonuses instead), and examples of these things. There's also an interesting chapter on DMing techniques including group storytelling which was useful to a GM with thirty years experience.
The chapter on Sigil is pretty disappointing, or was for me. That's my main negative. |
These, in the day when heaven was falling,
The hour when earth's foundations fled,
Followed their mercenary calling
And took their wages and are dead.
Their shoulders held the sky suspended;
They stood, and earth's foundations stay;
What God abandoned, these defended,
And saved the sum of things for pay. |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4430 Posts |
Posted - 24 Oct 2009 : 14:50:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Bluenose
quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
Hmmm... I haven't looked through the book and I was on the fence about getting it or not. What sort of topics does the book cover?
The best chapter imo is the one about how to design skill challenges, which includes plenty of examples both good and bad. It also has material on trap design, magic item design, on companion characters, monster creation, running games without magic items (basically, give people inherent bonuses instead), and examples of these things. There's also an interesting chapter on DMing techniques including group storytelling which was useful to a GM with thirty years experience.
The chapter on Sigil is pretty disappointing, or was for me. That's my main negative.
Wow, that suprised me. It seems I'm getting the DMG 2. From what you've said, it all seems pretty much worth it. The part on creating good skill challenges being a big one there. I know it's covered in the DMG, but I honestly don't do a good job of them (making or playing them). Good to see it's not just the same re-hashed ideas in a new form.
I wonder if we'll have game material for organizations like we had in the 3.5 DMG 2. That was pretty much the only think I used the book for, lol. |
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goatunit
Acolyte
USA
31 Posts |
Posted - 24 Oct 2009 : 16:38:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Bluenose
The chapter on Sigil is pretty disappointing, or was for me. That's my main negative.
I really wish they'd quit doing that.
"Hey guys, remember Planescape? Oh, you still play in it? Weird. You know morality's linear now, right? Anyway, here's this year's shoddy lip-service mock up of Sigil!" |
Edited by - goatunit on 24 Oct 2009 16:39:58 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36782 Posts |
Posted - 24 Oct 2009 : 18:06:04
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quote:
Originally posted by goatunit
quote:
Originally posted by Bluenose
The chapter on Sigil is pretty disappointing, or was for me. That's my main negative.
I really wish they'd quit doing that.
"Hey guys, remember Planescape? Oh, you still play in it? Weird. You know morality's linear now, right? Anyway, here's this year's shoddy lip-service mock up of Sigil!"
There was an example of that in 3E that really bugged me... I don't recall which book it was, but they included the neogi in it. They made a point of mentioning that the neogi had flying ships -- and then totally ignored that, and made them sea-going pirates. Because, you know, pirates are just plain cool, so they don't need flying ships. 
Edit: Lords of Madness. |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 24 Oct 2009 18:09:24 |
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goatunit
Acolyte
USA
31 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2009 : 00:50:20
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Ha!
Yeah, and of course 3E had its own Sigil fiasco in the Manual of Planes (or was it that 3.5 planes book?). |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2009 : 01:10:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Bluenose
The chapter on Sigil is pretty disappointing, or was for me. That's my main negative.
I'm curious. Though I'll likely never purchase the tome myself, the section of Sigil was something I was intrigued about. So, basically, what was so disappointing about it?
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2009 : 01:12:32
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quote:
Originally posted by goatunit
Ha!
Yeah, and of course 3E had its own Sigil fiasco in the Manual of Planes (or was it that 3.5 planes book?).
'Twas the 3e Manual of the Planes. Sigil still existed as the City of Doors, but it instead occupied a completely separate planar environment all its own inside the Great Wheel of the 3e D&D core cosmology. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Quale
Master of Realmslore
1757 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2009 : 16:27:34
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I heard there are no factions, that's enough for it to be disappointing.
Also the gate-towns are ''suburbs'' of Sigil now, lol.
Now to criticize 3e Planar Handbook had the Lady's alignment. |
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Bluenose
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
134 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2009 : 19:59:11
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Bluenose
The chapter on Sigil is pretty disappointing, or was for me. That's my main negative.
I'm curious. Though I'll likely never purchase the tome myself, the section of Sigil was something I was intrigued about. So, basically, what was so disappointing about it?
It's a little hard to say. I suppose what bothered me most was there seemed a distinct lack of Wow, really? about it. Little that made me think I should find a way to get my players to go there and be as amazed as I want to be by whatever it was I reading about. Instead there's a perfectly functional introduction to a city that sounds interesting and unusual; when it should sound astonishing and in the past at it's best has been amazing. The presentation makes it sound just a little bit too safe and too predictable for the Sigil I want.
How much that's because I remember the original setting is hard to say. Don't get me wrong, someone who loves Sigil and wants to do justice to it won't find anything in DMG2 that stops them, but it might not be something that inspires people to treat it as more than another city, and I find that a little sad.
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These, in the day when heaven was falling,
The hour when earth's foundations fled,
Followed their mercenary calling
And took their wages and are dead.
Their shoulders held the sky suspended;
They stood, and earth's foundations stay;
What God abandoned, these defended,
And saved the sum of things for pay. |
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goatunit
Acolyte
USA
31 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2009 : 20:09:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Quale
I heard there are no factions, that's enough for it to be disappointing.
I am also disappointed by that turn of events, but to be fair it's actually Planescape canon. Towards the end of Planescape's run, they released an adventure called "Faction War," in which the Factions engage in open warfare in the streets of Sigil. The Lady banishes them from the Cage during the epilogue of that adventure. |
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Quale
Master of Realmslore
1757 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2009 : 20:46:14
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And all of a sudden, in the most important matter that needed correction, they started to follow the old canon.
This is not well known, the Faction War changes were never supposed to last, it was intended to be the start of a series of adventures with the finale back in Sigil where the factions would return, one way or another. But the product line was cancelled. |
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DMG2 - 4E
