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Jorkens
Great Reader

Norway
2950 Posts

Posted - 23 Aug 2009 :  15:42:12  Show Profile Send Jorkens a Private Message  Reply with Quote  Delete Topic
Another question going back in time.

Does anyone here know who did the illustrations of Elminster and the Simbul in the old Secrets of the Sages newsletter from '88? The Elminster picture has a signature, but as it is a pdf I cant get a clear enough picture to make it out.

Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
30204 Posts

Posted - 23 Aug 2009 :  16:21:47  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I tried extracting the pics, but when I zoomed in on them, the quality went to hell and made the sigs unreadable. So I can't help you.

I can offer up the link for anyone who doesn't have the pdf, though.
Secrets of the Sages: The Long-Lost 1988 Forgotten Realms Newsletter

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

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Jorkens
Great Reader

Norway
2950 Posts

Posted - 23 Aug 2009 :  17:13:04  Show Profile Send Jorkens a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Thanks Wooly. My hope here is that someone might own the original and that it might be readable. Ed might know, but I prefer to add as little as possible to his workload.
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31690 Posts

Posted - 23 Aug 2009 :  17:14:14  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Aye. I've had the same problem. I even utilised this new function I added to SageBrowser... trying to view the PDF through it. But, it met with little success. The first name for the Elminster image kind of looks like "Dan." That's all I got.

It might be worth asking Ed. He might know more.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)

"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood

Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage

Edited by - The Sage on 23 Aug 2009 17:22:48
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Steven Schend
Forgotten Realms Designer & Author

USA
1631 Posts

Posted - 23 Aug 2009 :  17:16:31  Show Profile  Visit Steven Schend's Homepage  Send Steven Schend a Yahoo! Message Send Steven Schend a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The front cover's by Valerie Valusek; the "Elminster"/wizard picture is a pickup piece by Tim Truman (former TSR staff artist long before I was there in 1990); and I do believe that the Simbul picture and sigil were hand-drawn images from Ed's FR bible done by the great man himself. :)

Steven

For current projects and general natter, see www.steveneschend.com
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31690 Posts

Posted - 23 Aug 2009 :  17:22:23  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Steven Schend

... and I do believe that the Simbul picture and sigil were hand-drawn images from Ed's FR bible done by the great man himself. :)
I suspected this might have been the case, as I'd recently been re-reading Ed's annotations in The Annotated Elminster. So, after comparing the style of the TAE sketches with the imagery of the Simbul in the newsletter, I noticed some similarities between them. Which, initially, made me think the Simbul's image might have come directly from Ed's hand.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)

"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood

Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage
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Jorkens
Great Reader

Norway
2950 Posts

Posted - 23 Aug 2009 :  17:22:25  Show Profile Send Jorkens a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Thanks Steven, I knew there was something familiar with the signature on the Elminster image, but I couldn't figure out who it was.

To bad this was the only issue of the newsletter ever produced.
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore

5041 Posts

Posted - 23 Aug 2009 :  20:47:47  Show Profile  Visit The Hooded One's Homepage Send The Hooded One a Private Message  Reply with Quote
And I can confirm that Ed was the artist. Those were early sketches of his that were turned in as part of his "bible" of the Realms, not work intended by him for publication (he's done better of The Simbul, since).
love,
THO
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Auzoros
Learned Scribe

Australia
97 Posts

Posted - 24 Aug 2009 :  14:53:17  Show Profile Send Auzoros a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert


I can offer up the link for anyone who doesn't have the pdf, though.
Secrets of the Sages: The Long-Lost 1988 Forgotten Realms Newsletter



Wonderful! Thanks Wooly
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Jorkens
Great Reader

Norway
2950 Posts

Posted - 24 Aug 2009 :  17:14:07  Show Profile Send Jorkens a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Looking at it again I must say that that Elminster picture must, of the ones published, be the strangest one I have seen. I like it(although it makes me think of Peps Persson, old Swedish reggae and blues musician), but it bares little resemblance to the others done through the years.
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Brimstone
Great Reader

USA
2904 Posts

Posted - 24 Aug 2009 :  21:53:46  Show Profile Send Brimstone a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Just to think I almost bought the PDF for $5.00 from Paizo last year.

Then I saw it posted here and FREE.

"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep

Edited by - Brimstone on 24 Aug 2009 21:54:18
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Thauramarth
Senior Scribe

United Kingdom
653 Posts

Posted - 25 Aug 2009 :  07:27:57  Show Profile Send Thauramarth a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Jorkens

Looking at it again I must say that that Elminster picture must, of the ones published, be the strangest one I have seen. I like it(although it makes me think of Peps Persson, old Swedish reggae and blues musician), but it bares little resemblance to the others done through the years.



I saw that picture for the first time in one of the "April Issues" of Dragon Magazine (#156), as an illustration for "Outrages from the Mages - Milking the Misbegotten Realms for all they are worth". I'm pretty sure there's a reason why they used that particular image (which, as I just now found out, was already used in 1988 - art recycling is nothing new, then ). I never knew that it was originally supposed to represent Elminster.

Club Secretary of the Dragons on the Hill RPG Club of London, UK: http://dragonsonthehill.co.uk/.
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Caolin
Senior Scribe

655 Posts

Posted - 25 Aug 2009 :  08:07:34  Show Profile Send Caolin a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Aww man, I think I still have that newsletter stashed away at my parents. Man, that takes me back and I kind of wish the Realms still have that feeling of mystery....sigh.
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Jorkens
Great Reader

Norway
2950 Posts

Posted - 25 Aug 2009 :  08:25:07  Show Profile Send Jorkens a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Thauramarth

quote:
Originally posted by Jorkens

Looking at it again I must say that that Elminster picture must, of the ones published, be the strangest one I have seen. I like it(although it makes me think of Peps Persson, old Swedish reggae and blues musician), but it bares little resemblance to the others done through the years.



I saw that picture for the first time in one of the "April Issues" of Dragon Magazine (#156), as an illustration for "Outrages from the Mages - Milking the Misbegotten Realms for all they are worth". I'm pretty sure there's a reason why they used that particular image (which, as I just now found out, was already used in 1988 - art recycling is nothing new, then ). I never knew that it was originally supposed to represent Elminster.



That is, if it was meant to represent Elminster in the first place. It could be a generic illustration used for convenience. I imagined Elminster more along the lines of the illustration on page four of the Encyclopaedia of the Realms in the Grey box. Come to think of it, when was the first official description of Elminster given?

This discussion also leaves me wondering what would have been the direction of the newsletter if it had continued and whether Ed had already submitted more material before it was cancelled.

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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
30204 Posts

Posted - 25 Aug 2009 :  14:50:25  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Jorkens

This discussion also leaves me wondering what would have been the direction of the newsletter if it had continued and whether Ed had already submitted more material before it was cancelled.





I seem to recall someone -- perhaps Steven -- explaining that the content of the one newsletter wasn't new, it was stuff that didn't make the Old Grey Box.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Editor and scribe for The Candlekeep Compendium

I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!
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Jorkens
Great Reader

Norway
2950 Posts

Posted - 25 Aug 2009 :  16:16:47  Show Profile Send Jorkens a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by Jorkens

This discussion also leaves me wondering what would have been the direction of the newsletter if it had continued and whether Ed had already submitted more material before it was cancelled.





I seem to recall someone -- perhaps Steven -- explaining that the content of the one newsletter wasn't new, it was stuff that didn't make the Old Grey Box.



I have heard (or rather read) the same, but wasn't the newsletter planned to be more than a one-of thing?
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
30204 Posts

Posted - 25 Aug 2009 :  16:28:16  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Jorkens

quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by Jorkens

This discussion also leaves me wondering what would have been the direction of the newsletter if it had continued and whether Ed had already submitted more material before it was cancelled.





I seem to recall someone -- perhaps Steven -- explaining that the content of the one newsletter wasn't new, it was stuff that didn't make the Old Grey Box.



I have heard (or rather read) the same, but wasn't the newsletter planned to be more than a one-of thing?



It depends on who was planning, I guess. If you look at the link I posted above, it explains that those who came up with the idea for the newsletter didn't tell everyone else, and the one newsletter we got was the company scrambling to fulfill a promise it didn't know had been made. My assumption is that the creative team found out about the promised newsletter after the cards started coming in, and then they were ordered to simply put something together as a one-off.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Editor and scribe for The Candlekeep Compendium

I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!
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Brimstone
Great Reader

USA
2904 Posts

Posted - 25 Aug 2009 :  16:39:43  Show Profile Send Brimstone a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by Jorkens

This discussion also leaves me wondering what would have been the direction of the newsletter if it had continued and whether Ed had already submitted more material before it was cancelled.





I seem to recall someone -- perhaps Steven -- explaining that the content of the one newsletter wasn't new, it was stuff that didn't make the Old Grey Box.


Man I hate the "Cutting Room Floor". So this could have been the Original Forgotten Realms "Web Enhancement"?

"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep
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Dark Wizard
Senior Scribe

USA
830 Posts

Posted - 26 Aug 2009 :  02:57:22  Show Profile Send Dark Wizard a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Brimstone


Man I hate the "Cutting Room Floor". So this could have been the Original Forgotten Realms "Web Enhancement"?



Fitting context to put it in and a lovely "Web Enhancement" it is.
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