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Irennan
Great Reader

Italy
2987 Posts

Posted - 30 Nov 2017 :  00:15:22  Show Profile Send Irennan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Zeromaru X

If you have a link to that Q&A, I will appreciate it.




I had one, but WotC deleted their own forum. Maybe someone ported it to the EnWorld forums.

To all Facebook-using FR fans, you might be interested in checking out this page: https://www.facebook.com/groups/450517575051806/
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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
7516 Posts

Posted - 30 Nov 2017 :  01:23:54  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

One thing I found interesting in the Edition Wars, in regards to just the ruleset itself, and not to the changes in the setting (which have been discussed in plenty!), was the way reactions tended to be extreme in one direction or another.

The reactions I saw to the 4E ruleset were either "I want to have this edition's baby!" or "Kill it! Kill it with fire!"

My own reaction was negative, though I should like to think it wasn't quite to that extreme.

The reactions I've seen to the 5E ruleset have been much more measured, and they've been predominantly positive. I personally have not looked at the rules in any great detail, but what I've seen has not been objectionable to me.

And unlike the 3.x/4E transition, I've not seen anyone else suddenly outsell WotC with a repackaged version of the 4E rules. For me, the fact that -- at least briefly -- Pathfinder was outselling D&D is a very powerful statement on the success of the 4E ruleset.



Actually, I was more the exact opposite. The ruleset was what I was more upset with than anything. While I was unhappy with some of the realms changes, it was more that wizards looked nothing like they did previously. Same with a lot of classes. The one thing I gave them props for was rituals, but honestly that had been kind of done by many people in previous editions.... not as thoroughly though. I'm actually still that way about the 4e ruleset. The 5e ruleset is more balanced, but its also missing so much its not funny.... but therein lies part of its issue, its still only 1/3rd baked.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
7516 Posts

Posted - 30 Nov 2017 :  01:51:36  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Zeromaru X

If you have a link to that Q&A, I will appreciate it.

And I have an opinion similar to that of Irennan (and I do like 4e and 4e FR). Despite the good ideas they may have had in 4e, and they had many. It was the way they implemented those changes, so... heavy handed, that people got alienated. Heck, to this day, there is people who dislike dragonborn just because they debuted in 4e, not because they dislike the dragonborn concept.

It was sad, though. Because that led us to lose a lot of the stuff 4e had brought, and not all that stuff was bad (there is stuff that actually was really cool, like, for instance, Laerakond), and I'm sure in the end classic Realms and "nu-Realms" could have coexisted, instead of just losing it almost all and be rebooted.

I know is posible because I have done it in my home Realms, and that means a profesional author could have devised a better way to do that than mine.



Bear in mind, no one has officially said Laerakond is gone. Many of us have stated, we have no problem with it staying and somehow getting "displaced". Same with Tymanther/Akanul... as far as I'm concerned, Chessenta and Unther and the Shaar had a lot of dead space.... so you can fit in both cultures and even use them to create new dynamics that satisfy both. Same with Vaasa and Telos/Warlock Knights. I have no problem with that staying that way. Previously it was nothing but a big swamp.

However, bringing back some of the regions that went away is what they need to do. All these drowned or ruined cities that they just destroyed for no good reason (Cimbar, Soorenar, Laothkund, Akanax, Mordulkin) or even countries (Halruaa, Nimbral, Luiren, Lantan).

While I'm personally glad to see some of the continents (Anchorome, Maztica... and while it wasn't officially gone, I assumed it was because Laerakond had no interaction to it... Katashaka) return, that's more because they're ripe playgrounds to play design in, and not because the realms missed them.... but you can play in them and give links elsewhere and still use the supporting materials of the realms easily.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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Irennan
Great Reader

Italy
2987 Posts

Posted - 30 Nov 2017 :  02:00:24  Show Profile Send Irennan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas

However, bringing back some of the regions that went away is what they need to do. All these drowned or ruined cities that they just destroyed for no good reason (Cimbar, Soorenar, Laothkund, Akanax, Mordulkin) or even countries (Halruaa, Nimbral, Luiren, Lantan).



A lot of those have already been brought back about 2 years ago, with the SCAG.

To all Facebook-using FR fans, you might be interested in checking out this page: https://www.facebook.com/groups/450517575051806/
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Zeromaru X
Master of Realmslore

Colombia
1114 Posts

Posted - 30 Nov 2017 :  02:48:41  Show Profile Send Zeromaru X a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas

quote:
Originally posted by Zeromaru X

If you have a link to that Q&A, I will appreciate it.

And I have an opinion similar to that of Irennan (and I do like 4e and 4e FR). Despite the good ideas they may have had in 4e, and they had many. It was the way they implemented those changes, so... heavy handed, that people got alienated. Heck, to this day, there is people who dislike dragonborn just because they debuted in 4e, not because they dislike the dragonborn concept.

It was sad, though. Because that led us to lose a lot of the stuff 4e had brought, and not all that stuff was bad (there is stuff that actually was really cool, like, for instance, Laerakond), and I'm sure in the end classic Realms and "nu-Realms" could have coexisted, instead of just losing it almost all and be rebooted.

I know is posible because I have done it in my home Realms, and that means a profesional author could have devised a better way to do that than mine.



Bear in mind, no one has officially said Laerakond is gone. Many of us have stated, we have no problem with it staying and somehow getting "displaced". Same with Tymanther/Akanul... as far as I'm concerned, Chessenta and Unther and the Shaar had a lot of dead space.... so you can fit in both cultures and even use them to create new dynamics that satisfy both. Same with Vaasa and Telos/Warlock Knights. I have no problem with that staying that way. Previously it was nothing but a big swamp.


I know, but odds are high that, if they release an official map or something, or a campaign setting, Laerakond isn't there anymore. And Laerakond isn't the only cool stuff that went away, anyways. And there is a lot of stuff from 3e that also got wiped out as well.

I know that I can just handwave the stuff I like, but in the official materials, that stuff won't be there. And somehow, all that is sad, because, it were a lot of years of development that now are... gone. Somehow, 5e did the same thing that 4e did to the Realms.

Long ago, in the distant past, they fell into decay. The philosopher’s path... The river of glory... Even the saints resting in the darkness rise up without response and block the way...
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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
7516 Posts

Posted - 01 Dec 2017 :  12:41:53  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Zeromaru X

quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas

quote:
Originally posted by Zeromaru X

If you have a link to that Q&A, I will appreciate it.

And I have an opinion similar to that of Irennan (and I do like 4e and 4e FR). Despite the good ideas they may have had in 4e, and they had many. It was the way they implemented those changes, so... heavy handed, that people got alienated. Heck, to this day, there is people who dislike dragonborn just because they debuted in 4e, not because they dislike the dragonborn concept.

It was sad, though. Because that led us to lose a lot of the stuff 4e had brought, and not all that stuff was bad (there is stuff that actually was really cool, like, for instance, Laerakond), and I'm sure in the end classic Realms and "nu-Realms" could have coexisted, instead of just losing it almost all and be rebooted.

I know is posible because I have done it in my home Realms, and that means a profesional author could have devised a better way to do that than mine.



Bear in mind, no one has officially said Laerakond is gone. Many of us have stated, we have no problem with it staying and somehow getting "displaced". Same with Tymanther/Akanul... as far as I'm concerned, Chessenta and Unther and the Shaar had a lot of dead space.... so you can fit in both cultures and even use them to create new dynamics that satisfy both. Same with Vaasa and Telos/Warlock Knights. I have no problem with that staying that way. Previously it was nothing but a big swamp.


I know, but odds are high that, if they release an official map or something, or a campaign setting, Laerakond isn't there anymore. And Laerakond isn't the only cool stuff that went away, anyways. And there is a lot of stuff from 3e that also got wiped out as well.

I know that I can just handwave the stuff I like, but in the official materials, that stuff won't be there. And somehow, all that is sad, because, it were a lot of years of development that now are... gone. Somehow, 5e did the same thing that 4e did to the Realms.



Here's the way I look at it.... I personally think we have lurkers from the company here... the more we say things like I'm saying that "it doesn't have to go", the more likely they'll "stay". I think a lot of times they take our ideas and put a slightly different spin on them, just so they can't be accused of stealing ideas. For instance, I can't help but notice that after I've basically spent the last two years saying that I'd like to see cat folk re-explored and a relook at Maztica / Katashaka.... out comes the adventure around Chult. Not saying its all me, because as I spoke, so did others. Did they necessarily do it the way I said I would? No... not at all... but I think they listened. So, maybe Laerakond WILL stay... maybe it WILL get displaced. Maybe it appears right next to Chult. Maybe it actually appears in the waters off the coast of the Utter East. Maybe it appears in the crowded sea off Zakhara. Maybe it even appears between Katashaka and Osse, or off the coast of Osse as a new island. In the end, location has some import, but not a lot when we're talking portals, flying ships, etc....

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas

Edited by - sleyvas on 01 Dec 2017 12:43:03
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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
7516 Posts

Posted - 01 Dec 2017 :  12:58:10  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Irennan

quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas

However, bringing back some of the regions that went away is what they need to do. All these drowned or ruined cities that they just destroyed for no good reason (Cimbar, Soorenar, Laothkund, Akanax, Mordulkin) or even countries (Halruaa, Nimbral, Luiren, Lantan).



A lot of those have already been brought back about 2 years ago, with the SCAG.



Exactly why I mentioned them. They brought some back in different ways than I personally like, and some its personally unclear if they are back (for instance, the old city states of Chessenta, the city of Laothkund, etc..).

On a side note, the more I've been exploring the idea of Laothkund coming back.... the more I'm liking the idea. We theoretically still have the "rebel" red wizards that were inhabiting the city of Escalant and nearby wizard's reach cities. If Laothkund was controlled in Abeir as a remote part of a tharch, it can come back and we can have that whole section of the wizard's reach that can be opposed to Szass Tam and possibly serving as a rallying point for people in Thay who have become disenchanted with the undead. Then if some of the portions of Chessenta also come back and they're friendly with this region, they have allies. If some cities (for instance, Mordulkin) were lost in Abeir to forces there, and then come back to Toril filled with enemies of Unther/Chessenta/Tymanther, it can become a city which can also become an ally (i.e. Threskel and the Northern Wizards and the Enclave may become another point working against Thay). Thus, you can have "not good" people fighting against "oppressive, insane, undead mongering Thay".... or rather, the shades of grey that make things interesting.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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idilippy
Senior Scribe

USA
417 Posts

Posted - 01 Dec 2017 :  14:38:59  Show Profile Send idilippy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal

Very true, although most of the reactions ive seen about 5e are that its good from first time players (who seem to say that no matter what the rules or setting are like). Whereas from long time players the trend is predominantly positive on the basis that it could have been much worse, it could have been 4e all over again.

Doesnt give me much hope for its longevity if the main selling point for older players is that its not as bad as the very worst thing you have ever played. But then again i still hope it fails and 6e is elminster waking up from a bad dream and realising the last 2 editions didnt happen.


For a different positive 5e response I’ve played since the tail end of 2e, though mostly 3e/PF, and tried every D&D edition at least once. 5e is my favorite edition of D&D now and the only one I would consider running moving forward. I hope it sticks around for the next decade. I like how streamlined it feels compared to the increasingly bloated PF/3.5e ruleset, the way it doesn’t toss out all the old, and it keeps good ideas like rituals from 4e. I also really like the advantage/disadvantage system when compared to the long list of modifiers for every little thing.

Edited by - idilippy on 01 Dec 2017 15:04:00
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Old Man Harpell
Senior Scribe

USA
473 Posts

Posted - 27 Mar 2018 :  13:40:01  Show Profile  Visit Old Man Harpell's Homepage Send Old Man Harpell a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I have no idea why it's taken me this long to have the idea come to mind, but...

...one of the best series I have seen addressing certain aspects of the various editions is by a gentleman named Matthew Colville, in his "Running The Game" YouTube series (he's on episode #55 or so, last I checked).

Essentially, it's a "how to" on being a DM/GM, as opposed to a player, and even grizzled old fossils such as Yours Truly have picked up a trick or three. I have, for instance, taken some of his suggestions for using tricks from Fourth Edition, which I thought was something that would never happen (though I am one of those rare souls who was fairly indifferent to the Fourth Edition ruleset...it simply wasn't my cup of tea).

He differs from many YouTubers in that he's consistently engaging, interesting, and has yet to put me to sleep (which, being on the dark side of fifty, I tend to nod off more often than I like). I will quantify that I have no idea if he has a presence here in Candlekeep (though I am skeptical), so this is not a "paid endorsement" (lacking a better description), but his series is worth the look - I am much more receptive these days to certain aspects of other editions because of his work.

- OMH
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