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Ozzalum
Learned Scribe
USA
277 Posts |
 Posted - 20 Jul 2009 : 15:14:27
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500 submissions? I retract all of my objections. WotC fans are obviously crazed. I'd lawyer up as well.
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Zanan
Senior Scribe
Germany
942 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jul 2009 : 16:06:23
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quote:
Originally posted by ElaineCunningham
::nods:: There are so many interesting German games and publishers. I often wished Das Schwarze Auge was available in English translation, as I don't reach German well enough to read the game products.
Just out of curiosity, are you translating Pathfinder for publication, or as a DM?
Well, I'm a "hardcore" D&D and FR "fan" and while "DSA" does have some neat storeis and a decent background, the system of the game as such are woeful  . I don't know whether it is out there in the US of A, but the PC game "Drakensang" is set in "DSA".
As for translation, I'm part of a team who works for a German company who tries hard to get the German version of the rules into the shelves shortly after Paizo hands the world the English ones. In short, publication is the answer.
Speaking of which, German readers like German game material. Or rather, game material in German. Not that they don't buy English stuff, but many would prefer having it in German as well. I'd argue that a large quantity of 3.x-D&Ders over here would prefer an updated version of 3.xE rather than a new system like 4E, something they can use the multitude of d20 and D&D 3.xE material with. We obviously hope that PF is that solution ... at least in the German market.
Which reminds me that you were listed as writing for PF too? |
Cave quid dicis, quando et cui!
Gæð a wyrd swa hio scel!
In memory of Alura Durshavin.
Visit my "Homepage" to find A Guide to the Drow NPCs of Faerûn, Drow and non-Drow PrC and much more. |
Edited by - Zanan on 20 Jul 2009 16:09:33 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jul 2009 : 16:15:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Ozzalum
500 submissions? I retract all of my objections. WotC fans are obviously crazed. I'd lawyer up as well.
And that was for a specific, open call. I'd imagine they get several unsolicited submissions a week. 
Heck, we've had more than a few people pop up here either asking how to get in to writing for WotC, or with some unsolicited writing already in progress. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jul 2009 : 18:28:02
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quote:
Originally posted by Ozzalum
I don't think it is nearly as difficult as you make it out to be to convert generic fantasy into the realms.
To clarify, I did say "with any verisimilitude." IMO, if you try to force a non-Realms story into the Realms, the results are neither good nor believable. (Though there are a thousand different interpretations of what is a "Realms story"--it varies for every reader.)
And I think we have a different definition of "convert generic fantasy into the realms."
If you say, "I want to tell a story about XX" and then say "where would I best tell that in the Realms?", then that's one thing. Assuming writing talent, a love of the setting (or at least a willingness to research), and some flexibility, that's not at all difficult, for the same reasons that you espoused.
If instead you say, "I've written this 100k word novel--where can I best put it in the Realms?", then that's another thing entirely.
Converting your 100k novel into a Realms novel AND having it be a *good* Realms novel, IMO, is unreasonably (and unprofitably) difficult unless you: A) are really, really talented, B) wrote a novel that basically already lines up with the Realms, or C) are just really, really good at faking A and/or B.
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Ozzalum
500 submissions? I retract all of my objections. WotC fans are obviously crazed. I'd lawyer up as well.
And that was for a specific, open call. I'd imagine they get several unsolicited submissions a week.
It's on a daily basis, actually, if my editor is to be believed. Pitches, stories, novels, the works . . .
quote:
Heck, we've had more than a few people pop up here either asking how to get in to writing for WotC, or with some unsolicited writing already in progress.
And my answer here, as it has been there, is: "Don't write in their IP. Publish elsewhere. Build your craft. Get publishing credits. Network."
I'd say more, but Elaine's already said it all.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jul 2009 : 18:54:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
And that was for a specific, open call. I'd imagine they get several unsolicited submissions a week.
It's on a daily basis, actually, if my editor is to be believed. Pitches, stories, novels, the works . . .
I figured as much, but I prefer to underestimate, rather than overestimate, with things like this. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Ozzalum
Learned Scribe
USA
277 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jul 2009 : 19:19:06
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Erik,
Obviously the key is to take someone else's book and convert it. That greatly increases profitability. I can't believe I have to think of these things for you.
Anyway, I think I'll keep writing in the Realms and just be sure to keep my day job. That day job I should be doing now... |
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ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author
2396 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jul 2009 : 19:27:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Zanan
As for translation, I'm part of a team who works for a German company who tries hard to get the German version of the rules into the shelves shortly after Paizo hands the world the English ones. In short, publication is the answer.
That's great news. I'm glad to see Pathfinder getting translated for German gamers.
quote:
Which reminds me that you were listed as writing for PF too?
I wrote the Pathfinder Journal feature for the "Legacy of Fire" adventure path, Pathfinder #19-24. It's a six-part novella called "Dark Tapestry" and introduces Channa Ti, a half-elf druid with an affinity to water. I will also have a short article in the upcoming game product River Kingdoms. |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jul 2009 : 19:40:01
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quote:
Originally posted by Ozzalum
Obviously the key is to take someone else's book and convert it. That greatly increases profitability. I can't believe I have to think of these things for you.
Oh no--I just usually leave the immoral and illegal stuff to the villains I come up with.
I also wanted to address something that Wooly said as well:
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Outside of their casting calls (which gave us the Young Dragons author group), they prefer to stick to those authors they know. So you either prove yourself with a casting call, or you prove yourself elsewhere. Either way, you have to prove yourself to WotC before they'll entrust you with the task of writing their next novel. And that next novel will more than likely have a plot they've already decided on.
This certainly seems like a normal thing for a game company to do with their media tie-in novels, but my experience writing freelance for WotC is quite the opposite. I am frankly surprised by how much narrative freedom I've been given to work with. Basically, it's "use this type of fighter" or "use a dungeon" or "use 4e Waterdeep" and then a list of things NOT to use so you don't overlap too much (such as drow, guy with two swords, dragons, DROW WE REALLY MEAN IT!). Otherwise, I have been pretty much free in what I want to tell.
quote:
Besides, I've read some fan-written material. Some is pure gold. Some is such utter crap that it hurts to read it. And unfortunately, there's a lot more of the latter than there is of the former.
I started out as a Realms fan-fic writer--that's how I learned to write. If it works for you, it works.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Christopher_Rowe
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
879 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jul 2009 : 20:54:38
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quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Outside of their casting calls (which gave us the Young Dragons author group), they prefer to stick to those authors they know. So you either prove yourself with a casting call, or you prove yourself elsewhere. Either way, you have to prove yourself to WotC before they'll entrust you with the task of writing their next novel. And that next novel will more than likely have a plot they've already decided on.
This certainly seems like a normal thing for a game company to do with their media tie-in novels, but my experience writing freelance for WotC is quite the opposite. I am frankly surprised by how much narrative freedom I've been given to work with. Basically, it's "use this type of fighter" or "use a dungeon" or "use 4e Waterdeep" and then a list of things NOT to use so you don't overlap too much (such as drow, guy with two swords, dragons, DROW WE REALLY MEAN IT!). Otherwise, I have been pretty much free in what I want to tell.
This has been my experience so far, as well.
Cheers,
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My Realms novel, Sandstorm, is now available for ordering. |
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ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author
2396 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jul 2009 : 12:37:09
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I've written over a dozen books for TSR/WotC, and only once was I given a (very broad) plot. Here are a few examples of the guidelines:
"A young female drow from a prominent family leaves the Underdark and has adventures."
"A trilogy set in Halruaa. We'd prefer that the main characters be human."
"A book set in Waterdeep. We'd prefer new, low-level characters."
"We like the title The Radiant Dragon. It's book 4 in a 6-book series, but we're sort of letting the story evolve so the plot is pretty much up to you."
And of course....
"There needs to be a Harper somewhere in this book."
The book with the predetermined plot was The Unicorn Hunt. Brian Thomsen asked for the following: A young boy hunts a unicorn because its horn has magically curative properties that will heal his dying mother. He has adventures along the way, but when he finally encounters the unicorn, he simply can't kill it. The unicorn touches the boy's water flask with its horn, imbuing it with magical properties. The boy takes this boon back home, and his mother is cured. The shape of the story and the end result is spelled out, so I call this a predetermined plot, even though I created the world, the characters, and the adventures. So yeah, there's lots of wiggle room even in the rare "here's your plot" situations.
If you're working on a multi-author series, it's a different scenario. The overall plot has to be determined and then broken up into book-sized chunks. The War of the Spider Queen series, for example, had a story bible, an overall plot determined by a team of writers and editors, and even then the individual writers had a considerable amount of creative flexibility. Richard could obviously speak to this issue far better than I; my observation comes from having read the story bible and some of the books and noting points of divergence and development. |
Edited by - ElaineCunningham on 21 Jul 2009 12:39:22 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jul 2009 : 14:41:15
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| I guess I had the wrong impression. I was under the impression that for most series/books, WotC had something definite (as in, a partially determined plot) in mind when they assigned it to an author. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author
2396 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jul 2009 : 16:36:40
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I guess I had the wrong impression. I was under the impression that for most series/books, WotC had something definite (as in, a partially determined plot) in mind when they assigned it to an author.
Nope. Partially determined plots are the exception, not the rule. |
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Richard Lee Byers
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
1814 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jul 2009 : 18:01:58
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My experience with doing FR books is that when you're doing the stories that impact the overall status quo (the RSE;s, if you will), WotC sometimes tells the writer that he should portray a particular event, or leave a certain part of the world in a particular condition. But they pretty much leave all the details up to him.
I'm going to illustrate what I mean, but I can't do it without providing some spoilers relating to my stuff. So if you haven't already read my stuff, well, you can't say I didn't warn you.
It was WotC's idea that I write a trilogy showcasing the dragons of the Realms, and that it should involve a Rage. But I was the one who decided that it would be the worst Rage of all time, and also the last one. Because the heroes would find out what causes Rages, and how to put an end to the phenomenon.
It was WotC's idea that I should write a trilogy that would show how Thay evolved from the way it was in 3.5 to the way it is in 4th. They also wanted me to depict the Spellplague onstage as a part of the story. But I contributed all the other ideas, including the concepts of a Thayan civil war and Szass Tam's secret motivation.
When six of us writers (plus Bob S.) did War of the Spider Queen, those of us who were involved from the start constructed a very general outline of the overall story (at least it was very general when I was actively involved. It may have gotten more detailed after I finished my part.) The outline pretty much told a writer that he would be starting with the characters in a certain situation, and he had to leave them in a certain situation. But how he got from A to B was pretty much up to him.
Doing Book One, I knew the following:
The overall story was about the Silence of Lolth, and her metamorphosis.
There would be a particular group of core characters. The outline only defined them in the most basic possible terms (Master of Melee-Maghtere, Master of Sorcere, etc.) There was nothing about their personalities, motivations, or even their names.
During my part of the story, the Silence of Lolth would be revealed.
At the end of my story, the core group of characters would go off on a mission to investigate the Silence of Lolth.
Everything else in Dissolution, I made up.
I hope this provides some insight into how this stuff works, and how much credit or blame the actual writer generally deserves for the results. |
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Teneck
Learned Scribe
USA
133 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jul 2009 : 18:05:40
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quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lee Byers
I hope this provides some insight into how this stuff works, and how much credit or blame the actual writer generally deserves for the results.
At least they do leave a lot of the story up to the artist since, after all, that is what you guys do best |
"Go ahead...Sleep in the church...the vampires can't get ya in the church" Any DM...any time.
"He's like a trained ape...without the training"
Simon after Jane trashed the Med lab |
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Janav
Acolyte
20 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jul 2009 : 09:40:01
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quote:
Originally posted by ElaineCunningham
I've written over a dozen books for TSR/WotC, and only once was I given a (very broad) plot. Here are a few examples of the guidelines:
"A young female drow from a prominent family leaves the Underdark and has adventures."
"A trilogy set in Halruaa. We'd prefer that the main characters be human."
"A book set in Waterdeep. We'd prefer new, low-level characters."
"We like the title The Radiant Dragon. It's book 4 in a 6-book series, but we're sort of letting the story evolve so the plot is pretty much up to you."
And of course....
"There needs to be a Harper somewhere in this book."
The book with the predetermined plot was The Unicorn Hunt. Brian Thomsen asked for the following: A young boy hunts a unicorn because its horn has magically curative properties that will heal his dying mother. He has adventures along the way, but when he finally encounters the unicorn, he simply can't kill it. The unicorn touches the boy's water flask with its horn, imbuing it with magical properties. The boy takes this boon back home, and his mother is cured. The shape of the story and the end result is spelled out, so I call this a predetermined plot, even though I created the world, the characters, and the adventures. So yeah, there's lots of wiggle room even in the rare "here's your plot" situations.
If you're working on a multi-author series, it's a different scenario. The overall plot has to be determined and then broken up into book-sized chunks. The War of the Spider Queen series, for example, had a story bible, an overall plot determined by a team of writers and editors, and even then the individual writers had a considerable amount of creative flexibility. Richard could obviously speak to this issue far better than I; my observation comes from having read the story bible and some of the books and noting points of divergence and development.
Interesting and very informative for aspiring authors, like most of this thread. |
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skychrome
Senior Scribe
713 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jul 2009 : 15:11:15
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quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
[]... and then a list of things NOT to use so you don't overlap too much (such as drow, guy with two swords, dragons, DROW WE REALLY MEAN IT!).
Damn, not again!
*glances at his almost finished, unsolicited 25 books novel series called "The adventures of Durrzzt the Dragonslyerprestigeclass-drow with two swords"*
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"You make an intriguing offer, one that is very tempting. It would seem that I have little alternative than to answer thusly: DISINTEGRATE!" Vaarsuvius, Order of the Stick 625 |
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ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author
2396 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jul 2009 : 12:49:43
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A recent blog post by Jennifer Jackson, a literary agent with the Donald Maass Agency, addressed many of the issues raised here. Well worth reading.
http://arcaedia.livejournal.com/206628.html
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savedbygrace
Acolyte
USA
9 Posts |
Posted - 09 Aug 2009 : 11:05:54
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quote:
Even though there isn't a specific prohibition against reading fanfic, there IS a clause in many contracts requiring authors to affirm that the work is solely their own. So if a reader who sent us fanfic comes after the publisher, the publisher can shift the onus onto the writer--which, quite frankly, is where it should be. Writers need to be careful. Reading fanfic is one of those gray areas, but I prefer to err on the side of caution.
This is interesting for sure. As an aspiring writer, I was seeking an outlet last year and registered at a fan fiction site to share my work and read that of others but soon decided against it. Why? Much of what I read was quite rubbish and I thought it a waste of time to fill my mind with such below average talent. Nor did I desire to share my work among them. Please don't interpret that as a boastful comment neither is it intended as slanderous to those who spill their hearts out on that site. My theory was to read that of published authors to see what's being accepted and to honestly learn from their success. With the exception of grade school learning, I have never received any guidance or instruction in writing and I prefer not to cloud my mind with the unlearned. Why not learn from those who have made it? Anyhow, I have resolved to adhere to my own world of fantasy and create it from the foundations to the government that rules it. The dilemma that rests before my ever aching feet is my inexperience, and I am well aware that I could use more skill. I would love to weave tales within the world that I spend thought in while reading, but to have them fall short of being enjoyed by those who share like experiences seems, well, pointless. *sigh*
Perhaps you folks can answer a question for me that wraps repeatedly on my inner skull. >>>Intellectual property by moral law belongs to its creator and I respect that without measure. What seems to cloud my thinking is what exactly can one consider their IP? To clarify....D&D builds a core system such as equipment, weaponry, monsters, deities and races. D&D is governed by WOTC? And though common sense declares to me that they do not own the rights to these subjects, where does their boundary of law reach? Can we utilize the great tools that exist in the manuals if they are not connected to other settings?
After proofreading this post I realize that I am already aware of my answer. Anything given a particular name and associated with specific attributes remains the intellectual property of the creator. But I will leave this query for future speculation, knowing that there remains an even finer line that may be left for further discussion.
Thank you all for this topic |
Be swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath. |
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Phil Athans interview: On writing in the Realms
