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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
 Posted - 17 Jul 2009 : 15:36:45
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Check it: http://wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/4spot/20090717
Aspiring Realms authors should particularly note the answer to one of the last couple questions:
quote:
Wizards of the Coast: Many gamers are also interested in contributing fiction to the novel line. While submissions are currently closed, what advice might you have for potential authors, particularly those interested in writing for Wizards' shared worlds? Is it more important to know the game, to craft a story, or equal measures of each? And are there any submissions you've seen over the years that while they weren't (or couldn't have been) turned into a novel nevertheless stood out in your mind?
Phil: The best advice I can give to aspiring authors of any sort of tie-in fiction is just don’t ever, ever, write a full-length novel “on spec.” We just aren’t permitted to read someone’s FR novel, Dragonlance novel, or anything else based on one of our games. And since we’re the only people who can publish something based on our trademarked properties, if we can’t read it, no one can read it, so just don’t waste your creative energy.
As the publishing business gets a little tougher, and we’re getting more selective in the number of books we publish, we’re relying more and more on experienced authors, so opportunities to break in are getting fewer and farther between. I don’t love that that’s happening, by the way. One of my favorite parts of this job over the years has been discovering new authors, and nothing brings me greater joy than that phone call to an aspiring author that tells them they aren’t aspiring anymore, they’re going to be published. But reality has crept in and made things a bit tighter.
Now that having been said, I would still advise aspiring authors to keep an eye on our website. We’ve held open calls for novel submissions in the past and may well again, though admittedly not in the next few months at least.
In an attempt to answer the rest of the question: no one should ever try to write a tie-in novel that ties in to something you’re not a fan of. If you’ve never played D&D and try to write a D&D novel, we’ll know, and so will the readers, and it won’t be a happy experience for anyone. Writing tie-in fiction is in many ways harder than just exploring your own fantasy world. You have to be ready to do research and if you don’t love the world you’re researching, well, that would have to just be a painful process.
Cheers
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Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
Edited by - Erik Scott de Bie on 20 Jul 2009 21:22:39
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skychrome
Senior Scribe
713 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jul 2009 : 00:44:35
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quote:
We just aren’t permitted to read someone’s FR novel, Dragonlance novel, or anything else based on one of our games.
Hm, I wonder what that exactly means... any background on that Erik?
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"You make an intriguing offer, one that is very tempting. It would seem that I have little alternative than to answer thusly: DISINTEGRATE!" Vaarsuvius, Order of the Stick 625 |
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Janav
Acolyte
20 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jul 2009 : 09:26:57
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quote:
Originally posted by skychrome
quote:
We just aren’t permitted to read someone’s FR novel, Dragonlance novel, or anything else based on one of our games.
Hm, I wonder what that exactly means... any background on that Erik?
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It means that (sorry for jumping in) that since the FR settings is their intellectual property they cannot, will not and don't read a novel submission that's set in their intellectual property (Forgotten realms). I.e, if you want them to read a submission that you send in order to become a published writer, you must write it in another "theme" then FR/dragonlance or any of their intellectual properties.
As far as i understand, this is quite normal for any literary IP. My dad (who's a lawyer) gave me a lengthy legal explanation that can basically be summed up with: If they read/published your submitted novel without first giving/establishing copyright, i.e "ordering" you to write it, they are liable for sueing from the author for taking his work (yours). That's how i understood it, anyway :).
In short, don't send a second Drizzt/Liriel/Cadderley novel as your submission - write something that is completely yours.
Please, correct me if my interpretation is wrong. |
Edited by - Janav on 18 Jul 2009 09:52:29 |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jul 2009 : 21:53:19
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You have the right of it, Janav. The lovely WotC editors will immediately delete (or at least shun) any submitted story that takes place in one of their published/copyrighted worlds.
It's just safer for them (as a company) to avoid any possible legal issues that could arise when they peruse your piece--particularly if it reflects a forthcoming book they haven't yet revealed (implying a possible plagiarism fight). Granted, it's unlikely any fledgling author is going to win a case against Hasbro, but it's a time/money suck for the company and better avoided.
So if you're going to send them something unsolicited, don't write in one of their published worlds. Make up your own.
That's more or less how I initially came to their attention: I sent them a piece in a generic (i.e., not much developed) fantasy world that they liked certain aspects of, and got a "thanks but no thanks" with positive feedback (Phil's personal handwriting). When Maiden of Pain rolled around, they already at-least dimly remembered who I was, so I suspect that helped a little.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Teneck
Learned Scribe
USA
133 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jul 2009 : 22:00:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
So if you're going to send them something unsolicited, don't write in one of their published worlds. Make up your own.
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Does this include all aspects of an established world? For instance Pantheon, settings, and history? |
"Go ahead...Sleep in the church...the vampires can't get ya in the church" Any DM...any time.
"He's like a trained ape...without the training"
Simon after Jane trashed the Med lab |
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Ozzalum
Learned Scribe
USA
277 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jul 2009 : 23:40:07
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| I really don't see how that particular clause is enough to save them from being sued. How difficult is it to take a story set somewhere generic and make it Realms specific? This is the guy who did a trilogy homage to Ayn Rand set in the Realms. |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jul 2009 : 00:05:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Teneck
Does this include all aspects of an established world? For instance Pantheon, settings, and history?
Well, it depends on the needs of your story. If you need to go into gods and history in your submission, go for it.
Certainly, don't use Faerunian gods or history in your submission.
quote:
Originally posted by Ozzalum
I really don't see how that particular clause is enough to save them from being sued. How difficult is it to take a story set somewhere generic and make it Realms specific? This is the guy who did a trilogy homage to Ayn Rand set in the Realms.
I'm afraid I don't understand the question.
(I also don't see how use of Randian themes/philosophy has to do with the question--clarify?)
Personally, I think it is very difficult to force a generic fantasy story into the Realms with any verisimilitude, but then, I'm that sort of Realms reader (who cares very much that stories, characters, etc, grow organically within the setting).
And like I said, they're just being cautious as a business practice. And I think that's totally normal, expected, and reasonable.
Cheers
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Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
Edited by - Erik Scott de Bie on 19 Jul 2009 00:16:02 |
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Ozzalum
Learned Scribe
USA
277 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jul 2009 : 00:56:46
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My point is that if Ayn Rand were still around, those books wouldn't have been written. Some characters and scenes were virtually identical.
I don't think it is nearly as difficult as you make it out to be to convert generic fantasy into the realms. I think this is especially true if you are more concerned with some theme or "element of the human condition" as opposed to specific preexisting characters or regions. The Forgotten Realms are huge and varied, with significant parts of them basically left blank. For instance, take Innarlith and the Lake of Steam, where the Watercourse books were based. There was virtually nothing written about them before Phil Athans decided to take them on.
For example, let's say I wanted to write a book based in some eastern realm full of serpent-like dragons and noble warriors and whatnot. Now say someone with no morals gets a hold of it over at WotC and likes it. (Not saying they are without morals or they would possibly like something I wrote of course.) What would stop them from deciding that my book would fit perfectly in Koryo?
I think the policy is in place to give WotC people a simple way out of reading horrible fanfic. I can respect that. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jul 2009 : 07:08:48
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quote:
Originally posted by Teneck
quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
So if you're going to send them something unsolicited, don't write in one of their published worlds. Make up your own.
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Does this include all aspects of an established world? For instance Pantheon, settings, and history?
If it's someone else's IP, it's pretty much off-limits. |
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Zanan
Senior Scribe
Germany
942 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jul 2009 : 14:23:10
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In effect, if some up-and-coming author who's also a gamer and/or Realmsfan wants to present his / her writing with a say short-story-like proposal set in the Realms, those in power at WotC are not allowed to read it? How much sense does that make, law-stuff aside? On the other hand, unless I am mistaken, people were free to send their short-story proposals to the Dragon (whether WotC or Paizo) with not that strict an obligation, were they not?
Or, vice versa, an author must prove his/her writing expertise somewhere else ere s/he's allowed / invited to write something Realmsish (essentially) on demand? |
Cave quid dicis, quando et cui!
Gæð a wyrd swa hio scel!
In memory of Alura Durshavin.
Visit my "Homepage" to find A Guide to the Drow NPCs of Faerûn, Drow and non-Drow PrC and much more. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jul 2009 : 14:52:53
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quote:
Originally posted by Zanan
In effect, if some up-and-coming author who's also a gamer and/or Realmsfan wants to present his / her writing with a say short-story-like proposal set in the Realms, those in power at WotC are not allowed to read it?
A short-story proposal isn't the same thing as a full-on novel. That said, their policy is that if they don't ask you for it, it goes straight from the inbox to file 13.
quote:
Originally posted by Zanan
How much sense does that make, law-stuff aside?
A lot. It's a cover-your-butt policy. If your policy is to not read anything you don't ask for, then it's really hard for some sue-happy writer to claim you read and stole their idea.
Wizards is not in the business of discovering new authors. Wizards is a game company. There are editors and publishing houses that do that as their only business line.
quote:
Originally posted by Zanan
On the other hand, unless I am mistaken, people were free to send their short-story proposals to the Dragon (whether WotC or Paizo) with not that strict an obligation, were they not?
True. However, there was a form you had to fill out and send with your submission, which accomplished the same purpose of covering their butts against any claims you might try to later make.
And from my own experience, I can say that even then, they still weren't interested in stories set in a particular campaign world.
quote:
Originally posted by Zanan
Or, vice versa, an author must prove his/her writing expertise somewhere else ere s/he's allowed / invited to write something Realmsish (essentially) on demand?
Outside of their casting calls (which gave us the Young Dragons author group), they prefer to stick to those authors they know. So you either prove yourself with a casting call, or you prove yourself elsewhere. Either way, you have to prove yourself to WotC before they'll entrust you with the task of writing their next novel. And that next novel will more than likely have a plot they've already decided on.
It's certainly not a system to encourage fan-written material. And as one of many who'd like to write a Realms novel, I think it sucks. But, at the same time, I can look at it from a purely business angle, and I can see exactly why they're doing it. If I was running a game company, I'd likely do the same thing.
Besides, I've read some fan-written material. Some is pure gold. Some is such utter crap that it hurts to read it. And unfortunately, there's a lot more of the latter than there is of the former. |
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ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author
2396 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jul 2009 : 15:11:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Zanan
In effect, if some up-and-coming author who's also a gamer and/or Realmsfan wants to present his / her writing with a say short-story-like proposal set in the Realms, those in power at WotC are not allowed to read it? How much sense does that make, law-stuff aside? On the other hand, unless I am mistaken, people were free to send their short-story proposals to the Dragon (whether WotC or Paizo) with not that strict an obligation, were they not?
Writing guidelines for DRAGON have changed a few times over the past 20 years, but if memory serves, for the most part the editors did NOT read short stories set in copyrighted settings, unless they were submitted by established writers.
quote:
Or, vice versa, an author must prove his/her writing expertise somewhere else ere s/he's allowed / invited to write something Realmsish (essentially) on demand?
That's a fairly accurate assessment, yes. "Proving" one's writing ability, however, can take several different paths. Open calls, writing contests, over-the-transom writing samples in original settings, published novels and game products--these are some of the ways FR writers started out.
There are legitimate concerns about reading stories that make unauthorized use of an IP. I don't know if WotC has a corporate policy prohibiting this, but I would not be surprised to learn that they did. It's reasonable and prudent.
I don't think it's as simple and cynical as, "We don't want to read a bunch of crappy fanfic," but I think the person who made this observation comes very close to another issue. Consider the popularity of fanfic and the number of people writing it. Now suppose that all, or even a large percentage, of that fanfic was sent to WotC for consideration. And NOW consider how many full-time editors work at WotC, add up the books they publish each year, calculate their current work load, and tell me how on earth they would read all these additional submissions.
Fact of life: Few publishers have the resources needed to wade through slush piles. That's one of the reasons many publishers only consider agented manuscripts. Publishers use agents as gatekeepers. Agents wade through hundreds and thousands of submissions to find perhaps one in a thousand they believe they can sell. If there were NO filters, publishers would need to hire a lot more editors and first readers to winnow the submissions. Yes, they would find occasional gems and discover writers with real talent, but it is not considered cost-effective to look through everyone's work in order to find those gems.
WotC is not unique. Many publishers expect writers to prove themselves through publication of novels or short fiction, or by having successfully completed the difficult process of finding an agent. |
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Richard Lee Byers
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
1814 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jul 2009 : 16:01:40
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As is often the case, I agree with pretty much everything Erik and Elaine have had to say on this topic.
The legal point of not reading your unsolicited submission is that if you later try to sue, the editor can go into court and say honesty under oath that he never read your stuff and there's a rule in place that forbade him to read it.
The other point of not reading it is that they're busy and don't want to devote the time.
What it comes down to is this: Breaking in at WotC is hard. Breaking in at any publisher is hard, and getting harder all the time. In fact, marketing your non-franchise stuff and getting work-for-hire gigs aren't always all that much easier even after you've become a published author. Catch me in a self-pitying mood and I might be tempted to regale with the long, long list of editors who apparently never heard of me and don't seem to give a rat's ass about my credits.
But self-pity and complaining about the system, unfortunate though it is, won't get me or anyone any closer to launching or advancing a writing career. You need to be persistent, you need to develop your craft, you need to look professional, and, if it's at all practical for you, you should network. Then, if you're lucky, you'll get your chance. |
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Christopher_Rowe
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
879 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jul 2009 : 17:00:56
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quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lee Byers
But self-pity and complaining about the system, unfortunate though it is, won't get me or anyone any closer to launching or advancing a writing career. You need to be persistent, you need to develop your craft, you need to look professional, and, if it's at all practical for you, you should network. Then, if you're lucky, you'll get your chance.
And I agree with Richard (who's agreeing with Erik and Elaine). I personally think the luck factor Richard mentions is very minor part of it--persistence, hard work, and native talent are much more important ,or at least that's been my observation. But he's not definitely not overstating the luck bit, either. Oh, and yeah, the networking component seems absolutely crucial, especially these days. I've only rarely sold stories to editors I hadn't met at least a few times in person before-hand (though as it happens, I've yet to meet any current Wizards employees ftf).
Anyway, I'm pretty sure almost all the Realms writers have followed at least slightly different paths to becoming one. I'm even more sure that we all followed whatever procedures and rules Wizards editorial asked us to (either in the form of general guidelines or direct personal requests and directions). In publishing--heck, in writing--you're only allowed to break the rules when you're allowed to break the rules, if you get me.
Cheers,
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My Realms novel, Sandstorm, is now available for ordering. |
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ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author
2396 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jul 2009 : 18:18:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lee Byers
Catch me in a self-pitying mood and I might be tempted to regale with the long, long list of editors who apparently never heard of me and don't seem to give a rat's ass about my credits.
Or agents who only want to see the numbers on your non-franchise work because "shared-world books don't count."
quote:
You need to be persistent, you need to develop your craft, you need to look professional, and, if it's at all practical for you, you should network. Then, if you're lucky, you'll get your chance.
::nods::
Thanks to the internet, the publishing industry doesn't seem quite as mysterious as it did, say, ten or fifteen years ago. Just about every publisher posts submission guidelines. Dozens of editors and agents and writers post info on websites and blogs. These days it's easy for aspiring writers to figure out where to send their stuff, and email enables them to send submissions quickly and easily to many editors and/or agents. Agents who have an online presence get well over a hundred submissions a week, every week.
It seems to me that writing professionally is a little bit like playing professional baseball, in that it's a pyramid with a very broad base. Millions of kids play tee-ball, most move on to Little League. A few of those kids get to play for their high school teams, others play with select AAU teams or maybe with the Babe Ruth League. A few of THOSE will get scholarships to play baseball at college, fewer still go directly into the minor league system. A few of those few guys--and at this point, we're talking about ONLY guys--have at a shot at playing on major league teams. When MLB teams look for new talent, they don't hold try-outs for all comers. They START near the top of the pyramid, because it's expected that people will play the game, learn the skills, work their way up.
Granted, the analogy isn't perfect, but writing also has a very broad base. Everyone has story ideas, but the publishing equivalent of renting a stadium and hiring editorial scouts to watch millions of people take a few practice swings at storytelling? Not a practical way to get a publishing line-up. So publishers use agents, and magazines, and other publishers as a combination of talent scouts and farm teams.
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Edited by - ElaineCunningham on 19 Jul 2009 19:39:36 |
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Ozzalum
Learned Scribe
USA
277 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jul 2009 : 19:58:54
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Come now, if you could throw a 100mph fastball the Yankees would sign you. The writing industry and baseball are on opposite ends of the meritocracy spectrum. Now I legitimately enjoy most FR fiction so that's not a criticism of anyone's work, just the facts as I see them.
My point is simply that it is a bit disillusioning to know that WotC really wants to generate enthusiasm for their product line, but then completely snubs some of the most enthusiastic people out there as official corporate policy.
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Zanan
Senior Scribe
Germany
942 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jul 2009 : 20:02:40
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Thanks for all the replies.
Nota bene: I was just interested in how this is handled, no interest to write a novel anytime soon, or the like. Could have put it less bluntly though. |
Cave quid dicis, quando et cui!
Gæð a wyrd swa hio scel!
In memory of Alura Durshavin.
Visit my "Homepage" to find A Guide to the Drow NPCs of Faerûn, Drow and non-Drow PrC and much more. |
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BEAST
Master of Realmslore
USA
1714 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jul 2009 : 20:20:19
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| There are movie studios/production companies with largely the same policy in force, 1) to save them the hassle of having to wade through all the mail, and 2) to save them the hassle of the lawsuits alleging plagiarism. |
"'You don't know my history,' he said dryly."
--Drizzt Do'Urden (The Pirate King, Part 1: Chapter 2)
<"Comprehensive Chronology of R.A. Salvatore Forgotten Realms Works"> |
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ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author
2396 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jul 2009 : 20:23:14
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quote:
Originally posted by Ozzalum
Come now, if you could throw a 100mph fastball the Yankees would sign you.
You're probably right. The question is, how would they find out that you can throw a 100mph fast ball? Some sort of information system has to be in place for the info to get to Yankee management. If the next Joba Chamberlain could simply walk up to the new stadium, knock on the door, and get a try-out, then several million people who can NOT pitch like Joba would also be knocking on the door. The point is, someone, somewhere along the line, has to evaluate applicants for any position.
quote:
The writing industry and baseball are on opposite ends of the meritocracy spectrum. Now I legitimately enjoy most FR fiction so that's not a criticism of anyone's work, just the facts as I see them.
It's not a perfect analogy, granted. Again, the point I wished to illustrate is the difficulty of dealing with large numbers of applicants for a few positions, particularly when you have a large number of hobbyists seeking to become professionals.
quote:
My point is simply that it is a bit disillusioning to know that WotC really wants to generate enthusiasm for their product line, but then completely snubs some of the most enthusiastic people out there as official corporate policy.
I understand your frustration, but I don't agree with your conclusion.
Let's jump back to baseball for a moment. Is Yankee management "snubbing" fans by not holding open try-outs after each game? Half the people in the stands would probably give their left molars for a shot at pinstripes. But it doesn't work that way, and baseball fans don't expect it to. I, for one, don't have a hope in hell of playing for the Yankees. For one thing, I'm female. For another, I'm older than Randy Johnson, who in baseball years is ancient. Also, my eyesight isn't that great. There's no way I could SEE one of Joba's pitches, much less hit it. But knowing all this doesn't make me any less enthusiastic as a fan. I follow the team, get down to the stadium when I can. Yankee management does its best to field a winning team and the Yankees do their best to play a good game, and that's what I, as a fan, expect of them. (Although another pennant would certainly be nice....) The fact that it's tough to get on the team really isn't a factor in my level of enthusiasm.
I'll never sing at the Met, but I still like opera. I don't think the producers are slighting fans by not letting me and everyone else who loves Rene Fleming and Kiri Te Kanawa audition for starring roles. I love art--I've been drawing and painting since I could hold a crayon--but since I have no formal training, no credentials, and no portfolio, I don't expect that any art gallery director will want to schedule an exhibition of my (as yet unpainted) work.
There's no perfect system for assessing talent, but there are processes. I think that the much-publicized exceptions--the rare first-novel bestsellers--tempt us to forget this. |
Edited by - ElaineCunningham on 19 Jul 2009 22:21:24 |
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Ozzalum
Learned Scribe
USA
277 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jul 2009 : 00:12:27
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The obvious difference between baseball and opera on one hand and fantasy writing on the other is the number of fans who think "I could do that!" The Yankees really don't need to worry about either of us trying out.
I feel for these publishers, I really do. They have a tough job, but I don't feel particularly obligated to make them feel good about where they've drawn the line. |
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ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author
2396 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jul 2009 : 00:25:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Ozzalum
The obvious difference between baseball and opera on one hand and fantasy writing on the other is the number of fans who think "I could do that!" The Yankees really don't need to worry about either of us trying out.
Not this year, at least. 
Still, it would appear that a lot of people think "I can do that!" when it comes to singing. I don't watch "American Idol" (or much TV, for that matter), but apparently a lot of people turn out to audition.
quote:
I feel for these publishers, I really do. They have a tough job, but I don't feel particularly obligated to make them feel good about where they've drawn the line.
::nods:: Fair enough. |
Edited by - ElaineCunningham on 20 Jul 2009 00:26:18 |
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Ozzalum
Learned Scribe
USA
277 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jul 2009 : 02:02:28
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I was thinking of American Idol but it didn't support my thesis. So many people need some real friends... the kind that tell you if you have spinach in your teeth.
Not to get you deluged with fanfic or anything, but are contractors (for lack of the proper term) also covered by this decree. Could we all just send Ed our stuff in hopes of a recommendation? |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jul 2009 : 02:56:30
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quote:
Originally posted by Ozzalum
I was thinking of American Idol but it didn't support my thesis. So many people need some real friends... the kind that tell you if you have spinach in your teeth.
Not to get you deluged with fanfic or anything, but are contractors (for lack of the proper term) also covered by this decree. Could we all just send Ed our stuff in hopes of a recommendation?
Most authors avoid reading fan stuff, too, for pretty much the same reasons as publishers do.
Besides, with Ed being as chronically busy as he is, I'd not recommend that we all start sending him stuff. Even if he wasn't perpetually up to his eyeballs in tasks and deadlines, he's not a WotC employee -- he's just a freelancer, as far as they're concerned. His influence with the company and what it does is less than what a lot of us think it should be, and likely less than most people would imagine. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Zanan
Senior Scribe
Germany
942 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jul 2009 : 10:59:41
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| American Idol? Baseball? ... anyways, the idea that on the one hand they want people who are essentially knee-deep in gaming or at least the Realms, while on the other you shall prove yourself in writing but not in the aforementioned things looks positively farcical to me. I can understand that there are law issues here, but those are somewhat dubious too. |
Cave quid dicis, quando et cui!
Gæð a wyrd swa hio scel!
In memory of Alura Durshavin.
Visit my "Homepage" to find A Guide to the Drow NPCs of Faerûn, Drow and non-Drow PrC and much more. |
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Ozzalum
Learned Scribe
USA
277 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jul 2009 : 13:33:02
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I should have put in a smiley on that last proposal.
Wooly, you are far too concerned about people getting sued. Lawyers are fun to hate but this is a little absurd. You know I wrote a novel set in the Realms and it's hosted here at CK for anyone to download. If I'm reading some FR novel in the future and see paragraphs lifted out of my book, I might be able to successfully sue. But then again I would risk being counter-sued, since I infringed on their IP in the first place. It just doesn't seem like that big of a risk for them even if someone were to flagrantly plagiarize. Short of that, I'm under the impression that is is remarkably difficult to successfully sue someone for infringement.
I'm with Zanan on this one. You have to know and love the Realms to be a good writer for the Realms, but they won't read anything set there for fear of being sued by their fans? Their fans, mind you. I would feel much better just having Rich Baker say "Hey Dave, I'm swamped and I can't read your book." or "I read the first chapter and simply couldn't continue, you talentless hack." than this crap about how the company is convinced he's going to steal my work and I'm going to sue him. It's insulting to both of us.
As a point of reference, does anyone know how many submissions WotC received in their last novel contest? |
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ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author
2396 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jul 2009 : 13:49:37
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quote:
Originally posted by Ozzalum
Not to get you deluged with fanfic or anything, but are contractors (for lack of the proper term) also covered by this decree. Could we all just send Ed our stuff in hopes of a recommendation?
"Contractors" works just fine, though "freelance writers" is the more commonly used term. I can't speak for any other writer, but I've never been told by WotC, Sony, or Lucasfilm that I'm prohibited from reading fanfic set in the Forgotten Realms, EverQuest, or Star Wars. That said, I do NOT read fanfic, for the legal reasons AND the time reasons discussed above.
Even though there isn't a specific prohibition against reading fanfic, there IS a clause in many contracts requiring authors to affirm that the work is solely their own. So if a reader who sent us fanfic comes after the publisher, the publisher can shift the onus onto the writer--which, quite frankly, is where it should be. Writers need to be careful. Reading fanfic is one of those gray areas, but I prefer to err on the side of caution.
Like most working writers, I don't read the unpublished work of other writers even when it is NOT set in a copyrighted world. There just isn't enough time. These days most aspiring writers have visited enough author websites to know this, but a few years ago I was getting a dozen or so requests just about every week. These ranged from "Can you edit my short story?" to "Can you explain to me how to get this idea I have down on paper?" to "I want to write a trilogy set in the Realms but I can't be bothered with the research, so can I send you chapters as I write them so you can plug in Realmslore?" I still get occasional requests, most of the far more reasonable than these and some of them from people I know. I hate to turn them down, but I have to.
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ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author
2396 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jul 2009 : 14:16:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Ozzalum
I'm with Zanan on this one. You have to know and love the Realms to be a good writer for the Realms, but they won't read anything set there for fear of being sued by their fans? Their fans, mind you. I would feel much better just having Rich Baker say "Hey Dave, I'm swamped and I can't read your book." or "I read the first chapter and simply couldn't continue, you talentless hack." than this crap about how the company is convinced he's going to steal my work and I'm going to sue him. It's insulting to both of us.
Well...not so much. It's my observation that contracts and legal guidelines don't represent what people THINK will happen, but rather, they anticipate the unexpected, worst-case scenario. Generally speaking, a contract (or company policy) is not intended to cast aspersions on the characters and motives of those under its prohibitions, and most people don't take them personally. ("What? They want me to sign an NDA agreement? Do they really think I'd give away company secrets? How insulting!")
Zanan, the baseball and America Idol references were meant to illustrate the number of aspiring hobbyists, and addressed the issues of competition and the selection process--topics quite apart from the legalities.
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Edited by - ElaineCunningham on 20 Jul 2009 14:26:19 |
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Zanan
Senior Scribe
Germany
942 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jul 2009 : 14:18:48
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quote:
Originally posted by Ozzalum
As a point of reference, does anyone know how many submissions WotC received in their last novel contest?
The last open call I remember (2004/2005) was for Maiden of Pain. Mine included, it got 500 submissions from all over the world. Kameron Franklin made it through and it was a good novel indeed. Since I'm DMing most of the time, I have made a habit of writing adventures rather than write novels these days though. And if I weren't translating Pathfinder into German these days, I'd surely have them on them at one of our publishers over here  |
Cave quid dicis, quando et cui!
Gæð a wyrd swa hio scel!
In memory of Alura Durshavin.
Visit my "Homepage" to find A Guide to the Drow NPCs of Faerûn, Drow and non-Drow PrC and much more. |
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ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author
2396 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jul 2009 : 14:37:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Zanan
Since I'm DMing most of the time, I have made a habit of writing adventures rather than write novels these days though. And if I weren't translating Pathfinder into German these days, I'd surely have them on them at one of our publishers over here.
::nods:: There are so many interesting German games and publishers. I often wished Das Schwarze Auge was available in English translation, as I don't reach German well enough to read the game products.
Just out of curiosity, are you translating Pathfinder for publication, or as a DM?
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Edited by - ElaineCunningham on 20 Jul 2009 14:39:13 |
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Richard Lee Byers
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
1814 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jul 2009 : 14:46:22
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| Again, I agree with Elaine. A policy that is intended to help the company in the event that it gets sued by somebody sometime is not a an insult directed at you personally. And it's counterproductive to take it that way. If you're trying to be a professional writer, and you take it personally whenever you get rejected in all the various ways you will get rejected, your head will probably explode. |
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BEAST
Master of Realmslore
USA
1714 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jul 2009 : 14:49:38
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I've had fun e-mailing/message boarding with Bob Salvatore about stuff that has happened in his books. But he starts getting a little fidgety when we fans start throwing out ideas for future novels, scenes, etc. He would understandably like to be able to construct a future story without having a fan claim to have already given him the idea. And I don't blame him.
Now increase that by an order of magnitude for the entire company.
And if those theoretical open-call stories were actually set in the Realms, the likelihood of the stories having a similarity to something in the works or on the horizon by the company skyrockets.
Yes, it sounds wussy and cowardly for a company to be so concerned over it. It would be nice to imagine a corporation simply having the balls to stand its grounds and fight any plagiarism claims each time, every time, without flinching. "That's what we hired the legal eagle types for, so what do we have to worry about?"
But just to defend yourself in a suit--even when you're innocent--is scary-expensive. Splitting hairs over superficially similar ideas & simultaneous creativity versus true plagiarism is tedious in the extreme, for all concerned.
And again, bump that up by an order of magnitude for the whole company. Let a bunch of fans send in a bunch of stories all the time, and the company'd be defending itself against plagiarism claims all the time. There'd be no time to actually do any work.
Who wants that kind of hassle? Better to post a gatekeeper policy at the front door, just to be safe. Yeah, it makes eager fans/would-be writers feel snubbed. It's aggravating. It's frustrating. But it's for the best, given the realms we really live in. |
"'You don't know my history,' he said dryly."
--Drizzt Do'Urden (The Pirate King, Part 1: Chapter 2)
<"Comprehensive Chronology of R.A. Salvatore Forgotten Realms Works"> |
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Phil Athans interview: On writing in the Realms
