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D-brane
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
140 Posts |
 Posted - 26 Jun 2009 : 08:13:26
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Now, before we get too far, I know and appreciate the info about Realms and real world comparisons. This isn't really about all that. I just need some help for an upcoming part of my Rashemen campaign.
As it stands now, I don't have much time to write-up any specific info on a few of the places in the NE Realms that my PCs will be visiting. Places like the Great Glacier, Sossal, Vaasa, and Narfell. So I thought I'd cheat for the time being, and scour some real-world sources for info that I could spend a few minutes tweaking in order to make it feel "Realmsian."
Which brings me to this post. What real-world locations would you associate with the Realms of the Great Glacier, Sossal, Narfell, and Vaasa? Any history/cultural sites would be a plus. But I'm really just looking for suggestions from the posters here at the 'Keep. What real-world places do you see as best reflecting the Realms locations I asked about?
Thanks in advance.
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"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence." |
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3240 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jun 2009 : 14:02:41
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Alaska, Mid-west to Western Canada and Montana.
But really, if you want some more detail, go over to Ask Ed and see what he has sitting on his desk... |
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
Ashe's Character Sheet
Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
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D-brane
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
140 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jun 2009 : 16:03:50
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Thanks Ashe. That helps.
But to be a little clearer, I'm actually looking for the medieval-equivalent of these Realms locations. Kind of what like Ed originally did when he was working on the core Realms areas.
And I'll go ask Ed as well. Thanks again.  |
"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence." |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jun 2009 : 16:19:55
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ALL of those people are derivitive of the Migrating Gur out of the region around the Great Ice Sea. Those people began migrating west some ten thousand years ago, and were the forefathers of the Raumviran, who were themselves the precursors of the Rashemi, Sossalites, Narfelli, Vassans, etc...
Long before that group's two main branches became empires in their own right - Narfell and Raumathar - they went as far west as the Anauroch basin and settled around the Narrow Sea, eventually to become the Netherease. Other branches - still barbaric - can be found in The Ride and the Tunlands.
They are a Slavic-like people... I find it easiest to think of the Narfelli like Cossacks, and the Raumviran as Romany-like (Gypsy). The northern branch - Sossal - are the most Russian-like, going so far as to be the only group in FR that produces Vodka.
Homebrew Musings:
I've also done some speculation that it was that group that gave us our Finnish gods in FR, and that the original Gur once had a great civilization of their own tens of thousands of years ago, plying Yal Tengri (The Great Ice Sea), but that it eventually broke-apart into smaller quarreling factions (as all empires eventually do), and its decline was also helped-along by the emergence of the Tuigan into the Taan (hordelands). The last great wave of Gur-decendents that attempted to build an empire once again were the Kalmyk - a group from the far north of the Taan living in the mountains, forests, and lowlands east of Yal Tengri. They had a brief bit of success, but were defeated when they became too large too fast (typical of empires), and were beaten by a combination of factors, not the least of which were the Kao Shou.
So we are talking about a warlike, highly-mobile, adaptive people who's culture is similar in many ways to the Slavic groups of Earth.
Hope that helps.
Edit: The people of the Great Glacier - the Ulutiuns - are an Inuit (Eskimo)-like people, and derived from a tribe of Issacortae known as the Tayanulchi, who fled from their lands in the Ama Basin across 'The Land of the Snow Demons' to found a new home. They are originally a Wu (aboriginal Kara-Turran) people. They also go by the name of Traell, although that term is used primarilly by Giants west of the Great Glacier, and could denote yet-another sub-group (perhaps a mixture of Ulutiun and Netherease survivors from Hartsvale). |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 26 Jun 2009 17:10:15 |
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Knight of the Gate
Senior Scribe
USA
624 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jun 2009 : 19:07:48
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
ALL of those people are derivitive of the Migrating Gur out of the region around the Great Ice Sea. Those people began migrating west some ten thousand years ago, and were the forefathers of the Raumviran, who were themselves the precursors of the Rashemi, Sossalites, Narfelli, Vassans, etc...
Big Snip
I could be wrong, but I seem to recall that the Rashemi were gated in from elsewhere in Faerun, around the time of the fall of Raumathar and Narfell. The Wychlaran are the Magical 'descendants' of the Raumathari, but the Rashemi are an ethnically distinct prople, IIRC.
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
So we are talking about a warlike, highly-mobile, adaptive people who's culture is similar in many ways to the Slavic groups of Earth.
I have always mostly thought of Cossacks, more than the other Slavic peoples, for the very reasons MT states.
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How can life be so bountiful, providing such sublime rewards for mediocrity? -Umberto Ecco |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jun 2009 : 22:31:23
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AFAIK, the Rashemi are indigenous of Toril. 
All of the groups I mentioned are a sort-of proto-Finno/Russian like people, which would include the Cossacks (FR being it's own seperate 'thing' from the RW, there is no straight, 100% analogy).
Cossacks are Ukranianian, and therefore ARE a Slavic people. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jul 2009 : 12:04:57
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
AFAIK, the Rashemi are indigenous of Toril.
All of the groups I mentioned are a sort-of proto-Finno/Russian like people, which would include the Cossacks (FR being it's own seperate 'thing' from the RW, there is no straight, 100% analogy).
Cossacks are Ukranianian, and therefore ARE a Slavic people.
Well, the term Cossack was more tied to lifestyle than to ethnicity, used on various separate groups of people in eastern Europe.
As for the Bloodstone lands. Central Europe of the early middle ages would be the nearest, with some groups showing German elements others showing slavic and Finno-Ugric elements. In other words more or less anything from northern European middle ages can be found there.
I would suggest just finding the Bloodstone lands book and use your imagination. The real world elements are more of a bother than an aid in most instances. |
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coach
Senior Scribe
USA
479 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jul 2009 : 00:50:12
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let me look this up, but i think there was a dragon mag that linked many FR regions to a potential real-life counterpart
i would link Damara as Germanic - Holy Roman Empire perhaps |
Bloodstone Lands Sage |
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coach
Senior Scribe
USA
479 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jul 2009 : 00:52:05
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and Markus definitely spot on about Great Glacier folk = eskimo/inuit
i would also link Sossal with Scandinavia with their cold region and white-blonde haired peoples |
Bloodstone Lands Sage |
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coach
Senior Scribe
USA
479 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jul 2009 : 01:00:09
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this may save you some time:
SOSSAL:
6. Humans: ethnic breakdown: Sossrim 93%, Nar 5%, Ulutian 2% (RoF p111) (GTotR p117-118)
a. Sossrim have natural druidic powers (FRCS p111) very adept at camoflauge in snow environment (GTotR p117)
b. Sculpt wooden furniture with their minds (FRCS p111)
c. Snow white skin, silver white hair (WaR p55) (GTotR p117) ice blue eyes, blonde hair (WaP p 41,42) (RoF p108) (GTotR p117)
d. Wear polar bear furs with intact head as a headcover (WaR p55) dress in all white clothing (GTotR p117)
e. Businesslike, direct and to-the-point demeanor (WaR p56)
f. Fanatically hate white dragons, and don’t consider any dragons “good” (WaP p42)
g. Marry and have children at young age (WaP p43)
h. Vulnerable to heat/fire based attacks (WaP p44)
i. Dialect of common called Skaevrym, and speak Damaran (FRCS p85) (RoF p108,111)
j. Use Dethek alphabet (RoF p108,111)
k. Complete adaptation to arctic environment (RoF p108)
j. Height and weight (PGtF p32)
GREAT GLACIER:
1. Government is Clan-based
2. Nakalutiun Laws and Social Order (GG p48-50)
a. Village lead by an autocratic priest of Ulutiu called a urit (PaP p63) (GG p48-49)
b. His three lieutenant priests are known as yaaurits (PaP p63) (GG p48-49)
c. Yearly religious edicts called kaiurit dictate Nakalutiun life (PaP p63) (GG p48-50)
d. Ykulutik: punishment system for Kaiurit violations (GG 49-50)
e. Strictly defined social order (GG p48-50)
f. Distrust of outsiders borders on paranoia (GG p48)
3. Angulutiun Laws and Social Order (GG p43-44)
a. Led by pimataung (GG 43)
b. Defined social order (GG p43)
4. Iulutians have a democratic type government (GG p21)
a. Adults elect an iquemelum of 5 or 6 kiam who determine the tribes actions (GG p21)
b. Kiam wear tiny fish-skull earrings called uwa as a symbol of their status (GG p21)
c. Kiam must meet four qualifications: adult, exceptionally skilled at something, must have a strong relationship with the iquemelum, and must want the job (GG p21)
d. Kiam resign by tossing uwa into sea (GG p21)
e. Main function of Kiam is to keep peace between Iulutiun tribes (GG p21)
f. No written Laws but customs are strictly held to (GG p22)
g. Iulutiuns don’t recognize land ownership (GG p22)
h. Upon death, belongings are dispersed among the tribe, except for kayak, dogs, cooking implements, sled, and harpoon which goes to oldest child still living at home. If no child still lives at home then the Iquemelaum disperses the estate as it sees fit (GG p22)
i. Volunteer Slavery [ukeu] for those who can’t care for themselves (GG p22)
j. Hunting laws (GG p23)
k. All crimes have same punishment – death (GG p23)
l. Two types of murders are socially acceptable (GG p23)
m. Wrestling contests or trading insults through short songs are two ways of settling disputes (GG p24)
n. To Iulutiuns, family is everything (GG p25)
o. Baby naming is most cherished Iulutiun custom (GG p26)
p. Children receive tattoos and piercings upon reaching puberty (GG p26)
2. Humans [indigenous humans called Ulutiuns] (GTotR p117)
a. Human ethnic breakdown: Ulutian 90%, Sossrim 5%, Damaran 2%, Vaasan 2%, other 1% (RoF p110)
b. People of the Great Glacier are called Ulutiuns (FRCS p110) [population ~50000 to 75000; 85% Iulutiuns, 10% Angulutiuns, 5% Nakulutiuns] (GG p19)
c. Language is Uluik, alphabet is Thorass (FRCS p85) (RoF p109,110) (PGtF p12)
d. Wear animal hides with hoods, fur mittens, thick-soled boots (WaR p55) (RoF p109)
e. Short, squat, dark-skinned, dark-haired, dark-eyed, broad-faced(WaP p42) (RoF p109) (GG p20) (GTotR p117)
f. Ulutiuns lack facial hair (GG p20)
g. Fight to the death, no quarter given or asked for (WaP p42)
h. Spears are favored weapons, each warrior has a personal spear that tells the story of his clan in pictograms, +1 hit/damage. If this spear is lost or destroyed, the warrior is affected by a feeblemind and fear spell until it is found or a new one made in it’s place (WaP 42,43,44)
i. +1 to any roll involving cold (WaP p43)
j. Marry and have children at young age (WaP p43)
k. Settled by migrants from Northern Kara-Tur (RoF p109)
l. Other weapons: battleaxe, garnok, hand axe, harpoon, iuak, liht pick, nets, ritiik, shortbow, throwing axes, tridents (RoF p109)
m. Nomad hunters (PGtF p17)
n. Height and weight (PGtF p32)
o. Extra blood vessels, extra inch-thick layer of fat make frostbite less likely (GG p20)
p. Ulutiuns split into three distinct groups: Nakalutiuns, Iulutiuns, Angulutuins (PaP p63) (GG p19)
3. Nakalutiuns (PaP p62-66) (GG p48-51)
a. Fanatic worshippers of Ulutiu living in Nakvaligach (GG 48-51)
b. Nakalutiuns do not intermingle with the heathen Iulutiuns or Angulutiuns (PaP p63)
c. Treat outsiders with hostility [jyykach] (GG p49)
d. Architecture (GG p50)
e. Clothing (GG p50)
f. Transportation (GG p50)
g. Hunting and Food (GG p50-51)
h. Skills: Astrology, endurance, fire-building, herbalism, hunting, religion, survival (GG p78)
4. Iulutiuns (GG p20-42)
a. Main tribe of Ulutiuns, living primarily in Alpuk (GG cover)
b. Friendly to outsiders (WaP p42) (GG p20)
c. Sophisticated (GG p20)
d. Settle mainly around the two large seas (GG p20)
e. Architecture (GG p27,29-32)
f. Recreation (GG p28-29)
g. Clothing (GG p32-33)
h. Transportation (GG p33-36)
i. Hunting and Food (GG p38)
j. Skills: Dancing, direction sense, endurance, fire-building, fishing, gaming, healing, hunting, survival , tracking (GG p78)
5. Angulutiuns (GG 42-48)
a. Nomadic caribou herders, live in Angalpuk, settle mainly around forests (GG 42-43)
b. Consider outsiders as ‘trouble’ (GG p8) bring disease and try to recruit mercenaries
c. Architecture (GG p44-45)
d. Clothing (GG p45)
e. Transportation (GG p45-46)
f. Hunting and Food (GG p46)
g. Skills: animal handling, animal lore, animal training, direction sense, endurance, fir-building, hunting, rope use, survival (GG p78)
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Bloodstone Lands Sage |
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coach
Senior Scribe
USA
479 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jul 2009 : 01:03:58
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DAMARA
F. Demographics
1. Population 1,321,960 (FRCS p106)
a. Humans 87%, dwarves 6%, halflings 4%, half-orcs 2%, other 1%; Human ethnic breakdown: Damaran 70%, Chondathan 20%, Nar 5%, Vaasan 2%, Rashemi 2%, other 1% (FRCS p106) (RoF p110)
b. Dark haired, muscular, speaks swiftly, roar at war and in drink, like to sing chants, spit and growl and say many words with just their glares (FRCS p10) (RoF p88) (FR9 p21)
c. Language is Damaran; bonus languages are Chondathan, Dwarven, Giant, Goblin, Orc, Uliuk, Tuigan, Rashemi (FRCS p30) (RoF p90,92,111) (PGtF p12) All humans living in Tomrav speak Orc (FR9 p22)
d. Regional Feats: Bull-Headed, Foe Hunter, Survivor (FRCS p30)
e. Regional Feats: Arctic Adaptation, Grim Visage, Jotunbrud, Lightbringer, Forester, Luck of Heores, Strong Soul (RoF p88,92) Dauntless (PGtF p12)
f. Damaran ethnic group: melting pot of Nar, Sossrim, Rashemi, Chondath (RoF p80,88) (PGtF p16)
g. Worldview is one of moral absolutes – Good vs. Evil (RoF p88) (PGtF p16)
h. No compromise with evil even for the greater good (RoF p88) (Rite p229)
i. Long adventuring tradition (RoF p90)
j. Most Damarans are literate (RoF p90)
k. Rashemi minority can be found in Damara (RoF p99)
l. Alphabet is Dethek (RoF p90,110)
VAASA:
F. Demographics
1. Population 145,440 (FRCS p109)
a. Humans 60%, Dwarves 30%, Half-orc (gray) 9%, other 1%; Human ethnic breakdown: Vaasan 85%, Damaran 10%, Sossrim 4%, other 1% (FRCS p109) (RoF p111)
2. Vaasans (RoF p109)
a. Descendants of two waves of humans: Netherese and Chondathans (RoF p109)
b. Language is Damaran; bonus languages are Abyssal, Giant, Goblin, Orc, Uliuk (FRCS p32)
c. Regional Feats are Blooded, Bullheaded, Foe Hunter, Survivor, Horse Nomad (FRCS p32) Arctic Adaptation, Axethrower, Tireless (PGtF p15)
d. Show Sossrim heritage (RoF p88)
e. Land was settled when The Great Glacier retreated (RoF p109)
f. Ethnic group sometimes referred to as Yuls, Tharrans or Tesharans (RoF p109)
g. Alphabet is Dethek (RoF p111)
h. Sparsely populated (FR9 p3)
i. Hunters, farmers, trappers (FR9 p3) (FRCS p110)
j. Well protected settlements (FRCS p109)
k. Speak a mixture of common and dwarven and even some orc words (FRCS p110)
l. Miles of mountainside go unclaimed by any civilization (FRCS p109)
m. Olive-skinned, dark hair, thick beards (RoF p110)
n. Height and weight (PGtF p32)
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Bloodstone Lands Sage |
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coach
Senior Scribe
USA
479 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jul 2009 : 01:05:21
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NARFELL:
a. Humans 99%, other 1%; human ethnic breakdown: Nar 81%, Damaran 14%, Rashemi 4%, other 1% (FRCS p108) (RoF p111)
b. Its people are called the Nars (FRCS p108) (GTotR p117)
c. Nomadic following food – erect tent villages called “waymeets” (FRCS p108)
d. Language is Damaran and smattering of Common; bonus languages are Goblin, Orc, Rashemi, Tuigan, Uliuk (FRCS p31) (RoF p90,107,111) (PGtF p13)
e. Regional feats are Bullheaded, Saddleback, Survivor (FRCS p31) Arctic Adaptation (PGtF p13)
f. Short, stocky with dark complexions, shoulder length raven black hair (RoF p107) (FR9 p21)
g. Finest horsemen in Faerun (RoF p107) (PGtF p17) (GTotR p117)
h. Few can read or write but those that do use Dethek alphabet (RoF p107,111)
i. Height and weight (PGtF p32)
j. Live in tent villages called Waymeets (FR9 p17)
k. Tribe names are derived from the family name of their current chieftan (FR9 p17) |
Bloodstone Lands Sage |
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coach
Senior Scribe
USA
479 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jul 2009 : 01:08:25
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Hope that helps save you the time of looking all that up, yet you won't be as blind as just taking a real-life example as that can sometimes give a flavor yet nothing else
Markus, i let you down on starting that Sossal project because i got a new job (with much higher pay yet much higher time input/responsibility) but i think i have reached a point where i can begin anew
this thread got me re-motivated too hehe |
Bloodstone Lands Sage |
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Icelander
Master of Realmslore
1864 Posts |
Posted - 17 Oct 2015 : 16:39:41
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
They are a Slavic-like people... I find it easiest to think of the Narfelli like Cossacks, and the Raumviran as Romany-like (Gypsy). The northern branch - Sossal - are the most Russian-like, going so far as to be the only group in FR that produces Vodka.
Note that the real-world Earth Slavic peoples are a composite of many migrating ethnic groups and the conquered people where they settled.
While lingustic and even theoretical anthropological speculation can attempt to find roots reaching 3,500-3,700 into the past, the first historical evidence we have of people we would call Slavic is no more than 1,500 years old. Plausible theories of their ethnogenesis has the first proto-Slavs emerging around 2,000-2,500 years ago and recognisable elements of the first modern Slavic peoples mostly emerging within the last 1,000-1,500 years and some of them being much younger than that.
That means that even if modern North-Eastern Faerun has analogues to the Slavs, that does not imply that the Raumathari and Narfelli peoples were necessarily Slavic all the way back 2,400 years into Faerun's history.
In fact, it makes it unlikely that they both were. After all, real-world Germanic, Baltic, Hellenic, Romance, Celtic, Iranian (all Indo-European), Turkic, Caucasic, Uralic (Finno-Ugric + Samoyedic) and perhaps even Tungusic influences went into the real-world Slavic peoples and their languages. Why should Faerunian Slavic-analogues have a less varied list of influences?
As best I can see, the Raumathari might have been one of the groups that made up proto-Slavic people analogues in historical Faerun.
The Narfelli, however, appear to have been Uralic-equivalents. Their descendants would then include the Magyar-esque Eraka horse barbarians of The Ride, the Karelian- and Samoyedic-esque Nars and the Finn-like Sossrim.
Note that producing vodka is no more Russian than it is Baltic, Polish or Finnish.
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North-eastern Faerun -- real-world comparisons...
