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Jakk
Great Reader
Canada
2165 Posts |
 Posted - 24 May 2009 : 18:09:06
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Poll Question:
So... now that we know that Ed will be making regular contributions to content for DDi, how does that affect your willingness to subscribe?
I'm posting this poll out of curiosity:
a] as to how we feel now, a year and a half after the fact, about the demise of the printed magazines, and;
b] as to how we feel now, almost a year after the fact, about the Spellplague and its effects on Toril.
I'm not going to cast the first vote; I'm more interested in what the rest of us have to say. Once there have been a few votes cast, I'll sneak mine in.
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Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.
If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 24 May 2009 : 18:52:31
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I guess I got the first vote... And I voted "It doesn''t; I refuse to support the demise of the printed magazines."
Which isn't quite the case... I am boycotting all things related to 4E -- Realms or not. WotC has decided that after 20 years of being their target market, I'm no longer their desired demographic. So my gaming money will go towards companies that give me what I want -- which is, right now, mostly Paizo.
I did waver at the thought of reading Ed lore... But there are too many strikes against anything coming from WotC, not the least of which is the fact that the DDI remains an all-or-nothing proposition.
Not only that, but I've finally quit giving WotC the benefit of the doubt on everything. I caught a lot of flak for telling people to give WotC a chance, and a lot of people have disagreed with me when I argued that WotC wasn't necessarily trying to be evil. I have since come to the conclusion that I was wrong.
So, even the promise of lore from Ed isn't enough to get me to overlook the fact that it's 4E and that it's WotC putting it out. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 24 May 2009 18:53:29 |
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3240 Posts |
Posted - 24 May 2009 : 19:02:10
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| Same vote as Wooly, for pretty much the same reasons. I love Ed-lore, but I don't feel a subscription is something I need or can afford right now when I won't be using much of the material. |
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
Ashe's Character Sheet
Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
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Artemel
Learned Scribe
USA
110 Posts |
Posted - 24 May 2009 : 19:33:39
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| I'm tempted, only because it would at least then be well written articles. On the other hand, $e articles are next to useless, so... :( |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 24 May 2009 : 20:06:01
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As much as I HATE the demise of the printed mag (and an online version is called a WEBPAGE - magazines are printed on paper, by definiton, and Hasbro doesn't have the authority to change the English language!!!), I voted the third option. If I saw some articles that were usable in 3e, I might think about subscribing, but until they change their current policy of no pre-4e lore, I'm completely against it.
Paizo did a magnificent job with their run of the mags, and NOTHING WotC has done has even come close.
Its generic slop, as far as I'm concerned (and purposely meant to be so). The "one rules to rule them all" mantra may work for them from a corporate perspective, but then what is the purpose of us buying different settings, if they are all alike and compatible?
When I go to an Icecream parlor, I do not ask for an Icescream, I ask for a specific flavor. If a company came-out with a flavorless frozen cream that I could add my own flavoring to, how well do you think THAT would sell?
You'd have to be an idiot to buy that.  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 24 May 2009 20:06:37 |
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Patrakis
Learned Scribe
Canada
256 Posts |
Posted - 24 May 2009 : 20:27:10
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Not to say i applauded the demise of the print magazines, i was all for it since i'm a PDF man meself so thanks for that.
As for 4E realms material, well, i couldn't care less since i don't use 4E realms. I'm already a subscriber though, but for the game mechanics and the CORE stuff, not the realms stuff. I'll probably read it just for the nice feeling i get when reading Ed's prose :)
Pat |
Dancing is like standing still, but faster.
My site: http://www.patoumonde.com |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6643 Posts |
Posted - 25 May 2009 : 00:51:22
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I'm in two minds. Might as well ask Ed himself - if he promises me great articles, I'll likely subscribe!
We built and shaped the first incarnation of the Realms incrementally. I guess I owe it to Ed to try again for the latest incarnation.
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
Edited by - George Krashos on 25 May 2009 00:51:54 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 25 May 2009 : 01:16:44
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Well, the decision to "subscribe" was kinda made for me. In a way. I received a subscription as a birthday present earlier this month. So over the last four weeks, I've been digging through some of the older content of the online issues to find what piques my Realms/EBERRON/D&D interest.
Assuming I was still among those without a subscription, though...quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
I guess I owe it to Ed to try again for the latest incarnation.
I'd have to agree with Krash. I've spent nearly 22 years of my life with Ed's world. I can't just simply walk away. I'm a Realms addict. I NEED my daily/monthly Realms fix -- even if it comes through DDi. I may not like/enjoy some of the current 4e FR content, but I'm now willing [after reading some of the past articles] to find something of value in each and potentially project it into my Realms for possible usage. That's even though I disagree with some of the fundamental changes to the Realms in 4e [and I will admit, for the first time, that there are some things that I do like about the post-Spellplague Realms -- parts of Returned Abeir, for example].
*virtually avoids any potential swipes*
Having said that, Ed's future contributions did form a major part of my decision making process on whether to subscribe or not. That, and some of Brian's proposed article ideas. I really liked some of the topics he suggested way back on possible Realms articles for online DRAGON. So depending on how they turned out, I was willing to let them sway my opinion to the "subscribe" option as well.
What is interesting, is whether I'll re-scribe a year from now, when the current subscription expires. And that's thought-provoking. What will the Realms be like [as illustrated through DDi] in May 2010? Will Ed and Brian's proposed works be enough to keep me interested? I'd liked to think [and I'm desperately hoping] that it will, and for WotC to at least honour the fact that older scribes, like myself, still value lore-heavy articles. We want to see something about Realms DDi content that we value in the some way that we treasure the older material. I can *feel* that I can/could do that now with Ed's and Brian's stuff, and some of Bruce's as well. But will WotC always maintain that standard? Because I don't know anymore. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 25 May 2009 01:20:52 |
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3240 Posts |
Posted - 25 May 2009 : 01:31:48
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| You raise a good point, Sage. I think if, as the year goes on, we see that articles are of the traditional great quality we get from Ed, some of us may change our minds regarding subscribing to DDi. But the unfortunate part is that depends on 'hearsay' information for the articles. Whereas with the print magazine, you could pick it up at the newstand/bookstore and see if the article interests you, with the online version we have to rely on people that have already 'bought' the magazine to tell us if it's worth the money. |
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
Ashe's Character Sheet
Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
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Nightseer
Acolyte
45 Posts |
Posted - 25 May 2009 : 02:21:23
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| I subscribed. I agree with The Sage and Mr. Krashos. If it's written by Ed then I am in. Now, next month needs to hurry up and get here. |
Shar! |
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Nerfed2Hell
Senior Scribe
USA
387 Posts |
Posted - 25 May 2009 : 02:45:54
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| Honestly, I just don't see how even Ed's contributions could make me want to subscribe. While more lore is always a good thing, there's still so much of Ed's stuff available just here that and for free that DDI can kiss my hairy yellow butt. |
Some people are like a slinky... not good for much, but when you push them down the stairs, it makes you smile. |
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sfdragon
Great Reader
2285 Posts |
Posted - 25 May 2009 : 03:53:05
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| where is the I dunno vote?? |
why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power
My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234 |
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Chyron
Learned Scribe
Hong Kong
279 Posts |
Posted - 25 May 2009 : 06:24:48
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| I am actually using money to go back and buy up back issues of Dungeon and Dragon Magazine which I don't currently have. I think that will be better value for my money in the long run. |
Just My Thoughts
Chyron :)
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Zandilar
Learned Scribe
Australia
313 Posts |
Posted - 25 May 2009 : 09:04:49
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Heya,
How about a None of the above/Other option?
I'm in a kind of weird position. I don't have a problem with the printed mag to e-zine conversion.
I don't have a problem with 4th Edition Dungeons and Dragons (except for the fact that I haven't been able to play it much, because hardly anyone I know wants to play it).
I don't have a problem with paying money to subscribe to an e-zine.
My problem is solely that I hate what's been done to the Realms for 4th Edition. With the current policy of not producing anything for pre-4e Realms, and the fact that many of the events at the tail end of 3rd Ed Realms are not and never will be a part of my Realms, I don't see that anything anyone writes could be applicable for the Realms 100 years earlier (ie: 3e Realms). So I don't really see the point. |
Zandilar
~amor vincit omnia~
~audaces fortuna iuvat~
As the spell ends, you look up into the sky to see the sun blazing overhead like noon in a desert. Then something else in the sky catches your attention. Turning your gaze, you see a tawny furred kitten bounding across the sky towards the new sun. Her eyes glint a mischevious green as she pounces on it as if it were nothing but a colossal ball of golden yarn. With quick strokes of her paws, it is batted across the sky, back and forth. Then with a wink the kitten and the sun disappear, leaving the citizens of Elversult gazing up with amazed expressions that quickly turn into chortles and mirth.
The Sunlord left Elversult the same day in humilitation, and was never heard from again. |
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Uzzy
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
618 Posts |
Posted - 25 May 2009 : 11:53:00
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| Depends entirely on what it is. If it's 4th Edition Rubbish, then no big deal. If it's something on the Realms, then I might. It's unlikely, but knowing that Ed is going to do something does make me willing to give it a shot. Only one shot though. |
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Zealot
Seeker
USA
59 Posts |
Posted - 25 May 2009 : 16:28:51
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When I was in school, the forgotten realms helped me to see a magical world that I absolutely loved. It has been my companion as I traveled and it was the one thing that could slow my mind down when I was trying to reintegrate into civilian life. So as far as I am concerned, Ed is the next thing to a Saint for me.
Now if Ed is a saint, I guess WotC is my version of Satan. I tried to give 4E a chance but when I read what happened to the realms, it was total bollacks. I am not screwing my world up and it seems like they jumped the bleedin shark on this one. A Spell Plague, Multiple worlds...am I mad? I know we are working towards a paperless world but bloody hell, did they have to kill a couple of magazines that were corner stones of the industry?
That said, I voted that if there is material I can use in 3E, I would gladly subscribe. I will probably subscribe just to read the articles by Ed. I love to hear his thoughts and its a little hero worship. Thats my 2 cents. |
Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength, while loving someone deeply gives you courage. |
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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 25 May 2009 : 16:54:05
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| I might get the subscription, but I definately miss getting magazines in the mail every month. |
Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 25 May 2009 : 17:55:37
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
I've spent nearly 22 years of my life with Ed's world. I can't just simply walk away.
I'm not walking away from the Realms. I'm sticking with the real Realms -- which isn't what WotC is doing now. 
Honestly, I do see it as WotC deciding to leave me behind, rather than the other way around.  |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader
Germany
2296 Posts |
Posted - 25 May 2009 : 18:26:44
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Have to agree with Wooly here...but I guess all you old time 'keepers knew that, eh?
Plus, I have so much stuff still to read that it'll take a couple of years anyway... addict, yes, but if my supply is not running low in the unforseeable future I don't really give a frak about the abomination wizbro has been forcing upon us. Not 4e(vil) in general, but the Realms... 4e(vil)'s just another game to me, saw and played so many... when you sit at a table with people you've known for half your life and more and remember just how many games you have played...how many worlds you've grown to love...
I won't abandon the Realms, I just shrug and pass on their Realms |
Mace's not so gentle gamer's journal My rants were harmless compared to this, beware! |
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Zealot
Seeker
USA
59 Posts |
Posted - 25 May 2009 : 18:36:05
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| Wizbro? Now that's funny. |
Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength, while loving someone deeply gives you courage. |
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GRYPHON
Senior Scribe
USA
527 Posts |
Posted - 25 May 2009 : 20:11:03
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| I have no interest in supporting 4E. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 26 May 2009 : 01:13:14
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Honestly, I do see it as WotC deciding to leave me behind, rather than the other way around.
Heh. Funny thing, I've kinda been feeling that way since the introduction of 3e.  |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 26 May 2009 : 05:25:02
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Honestly, I do see it as WotC deciding to leave me behind, rather than the other way around.
Heh. Funny thing, I've kinda been feeling that way since the introduction of 3e.
As I've said elsewhere, I've slowly become convinced that 3E was the beginning of the end for the setting. It was where they stopped caring about canon and shifted more towards simply selling more books... |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Knight of the Gate
Senior Scribe
USA
624 Posts |
Posted - 26 May 2009 : 06:17:34
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Honestly, I do see it as WotC deciding to leave me behind, rather than the other way around.
Heh. Funny thing, I've kinda been feeling that way since the introduction of 3e.
As I've said elsewhere, I've slowly become convinced that 3E was the beginning of the end for the setting. It was where they stopped caring about canon and shifted more towards simply selling more books...
What Wooly said.
I felt the same way, but since (IMO) the system was so much better, I put up with the lack of really deep new lore, out of pure love of the Realms. Now all those NPCs (and most of the cities/towns they lived in) are gone, and we will likely never hear the end of their stories. All of which just goes to say that, much as I respect and wish to support Ed, I won't be putting $ into the DDi. Instead, I'm spending that money on older stuff that I never got my hands on, from all previous editions. Again, with all respect to the Man, I can't give Wizbro my money... I'd feel as if I were giving the dog a treat for peeing on the carpet. |
How can life be so bountiful, providing such sublime rewards for mediocrity? -Umberto Ecco |
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Hawkins
Great Reader
USA
2131 Posts |
Posted - 26 May 2009 : 17:42:00
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Short of someone giving me a free 4e FRCG (no, I am not asking for a handout here), I am having trouble giving the 4e Realms a chance because I refuse to spend money (especially $40+) on something that I will most likely hate and will probably never use. The bits I read here and there in stores just disgusted me.
And (I know, everyone has their own hang-up) for me it just doesn't feel all that Realmsian without the portals going here/there/everywhere and the diverse and complex pantheons. Especially since we never got the promised cleaning up of the whole stupid Tyr/Tymora/Helm love triangle. WotC is just no longer a company that I can put my faith in to provide a quality product because there were many broken promises (mainly with various things that they said we would get clarifying previews of leading up to the release of the FRCG).
Now, if they had paid Ed to write the whole 4e FRCG (except for the crunch parts) with selected disciples (Krash and Schend come to mind; maybe Eytan and Brian as well for the newer generation) the I think that even with all of the changes they made, they could have polished it to a happy shine. But, for me, the shine is gone; and I am not sure if there is anything they can do to put it back.
P.S. I didn't vote because there was really no option that fit my opinion, which is that I refuse to support the demise of the printed magazines and I refuse to support the 4e Realms. I am with Wooly in that I am boycotting everything WotC. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 26 May 2009 : 18:50:21
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quote:
Originally posted by HawkinstheDM
Short of someone giving me a free 4e FRCG (no, I am not asking for a handout here), I am having trouble giving the 4e Realms a chance because I refuse to spend money (especially $40+) on something that I will most likely hate and will probably never use. The bits I read here and there in stores just disgusted me.
And (I know, everyone has their own hang-up) for me it just doesn't feel all that Realmsian without the portals going here/there/everywhere and the diverse and complex pantheons. Especially since we never got the promised cleaning up of the whole stupid Tyr/Tymora/Helm love triangle. WotC is just no longer a company that I can put my faith in to provide a quality product because there were many broken promises (mainly with various things that they said we would get clarifying previews of leading up to the release of the FRCG).
Now, if they had paid Ed to write the whole 4e FRCG (except for the crunch parts) with selected disciples (Krash and Schend come to mind; maybe Eytan and Brian as well for the newer generation) the I think that even with all of the changes they made, they could have polished it to a happy shine. But, for me, the shine is gone; and I am not sure if there is anything they can do to put it back. And it took me about 8 months to get around to reading the FRCG.
P.S. I didn't vote because there was really no option that fit my opinion, which is that I refuse to support the demise of the printed magazines and I refuse to support the 4e Realms. I am with Wooly in that I am boycotting everything WotC.
Just to clarify two things in regards to my own stance...
1) I do have all three of the 4E FR books. I just didn't give WotC a dime for them -- I spent about $25 to get all three from eBay. This to me was acceptable; it was far less than the cover price, and I wasn't handing WotC any money.
2) I'm not boycotting WotC, I'm boycotting anything they do for 4E D&D, whether it's core or setting-specific. I am interested in some of the upcoming Star Wars stuff, though I don't know now if I'll buy it from WotC or on the cheap. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 26 May 2009 18:51:55 |
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Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader
Germany
2296 Posts |
Posted - 26 May 2009 : 18:54:10
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
2) I'm not boycotting WotC, I'm boycotting anything they do for 4E D&D, whether it's core or setting-specific. I am interested in some of the upcoming Star Wars stuff, though I don't know now if I'll buy it from WotC or on the cheap.
If they provided some conversion notes from d20 SW to d6 SW I might be inclined to buy...which won't happen and the d20 system just doesn't do anything for me in the SW universe... too slow, not as cinematic yada yada |
Mace's not so gentle gamer's journal My rants were harmless compared to this, beware! |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 26 May 2009 : 19:38:23
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Honestly, I do see it as WotC deciding to leave me behind, rather than the other way around.
That is a great way of looking at it. <agree> |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Hawkins
Great Reader
USA
2131 Posts |
Posted - 26 May 2009 : 20:14:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Just to clarify two things in regards to my own stance...
1) I do have all three of the 4E FR books. I just didn't give WotC a dime for them -- I spent about $25 to get all three from eBay. This to me was acceptable; it was far less than the cover price, and I wasn't handing WotC any money.
2) I'm not boycotting WotC, I'm boycotting anything they do for 4E D&D, whether it's core or setting-specific. I am interested in some of the upcoming Star Wars stuff, though I don't know now if I'll buy it from WotC or on the cheap.
Sorry your Wooliness.  I was not trying to put words into your mouth. |
Errant d20 Designer - My Blog (last updated January 06, 2016)
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 26 May 2009 : 22:05:28
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quote:
Originally posted by HawkinstheDM
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Just to clarify two things in regards to my own stance...
1) I do have all three of the 4E FR books. I just didn't give WotC a dime for them -- I spent about $25 to get all three from eBay. This to me was acceptable; it was far less than the cover price, and I wasn't handing WotC any money.
2) I'm not boycotting WotC, I'm boycotting anything they do for 4E D&D, whether it's core or setting-specific. I am interested in some of the upcoming Star Wars stuff, though I don't know now if I'll buy it from WotC or on the cheap.
Sorry your Wooliness. I was not trying to put words into your mouth.
No worries. I just wanted to make sure it was clear I wasn't totally swearing off WotC. They might still do something I'd be interested in, it just won't be anything D&D-related. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 27 May 2009 : 01:08:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
2) I'm not boycotting WotC, I'm boycotting anything they do for 4E D&D, whether it's core or setting-specific. I am interested in some of the upcoming Star Wars stuff, though I don't know now if I'll buy it from WotC or on the cheap.
As I've said elsewhere at Candlekeep, at the moment, the Star Wars Saga RPG is largely the only product line that's keeping me interested in WotC publications at the moment. I'm willing to give the Eberron Campaign Guide and Eberron Player's Guide a go when they're released too, but that's mostly because I've grown quite fond of the setting. And I'm curious to see how it will be translated into 4e D&D terms.
It's felt really weird not having an FR supplement to purchase every few months. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 27 May 2009 01:10:17 |
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The Master and DDi
