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LetumLux
Acolyte
17 Posts |
 Posted - 25 Mar 2009 : 08:03:48
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I'm building a game to be set in Halruaa and as I've been reading through both editions of The Shining South I've been left with a largely unanswered question of what some aspects of Halruaan culture are like. (Just got the Cunningham trilogy to read through, but haven't had a chance just yet, and I'm not sure if my question will be answered by them, anyway.)
I know the "inspiration and influences" question has come up before for various regions of Faerūn as for what region resembles or was/seemed based on what real-world equivalent (i.e., Mulhorand and Egypt) and I wanted to revisit that for Halruaa:
- Was there a particular inspiration or "source" for Halruaa?
Geographically at least, the encounter tables and environment liken it to parts of Africa, but the human-aspect doesn't match up. There's vague hints at a fantasy Middle-eastern to east-Indian style of dress.
- Is there a particular style and "sound" to the Halruaan language?
When naming their cities or people, is there any definitive inspiration, or a suggested real-world equivalent (Semitic language family, maybe?), or was it constructed without a "source"?
From various 'net information I learned that a Jordaini in the Magehound novel is named Matteo, an Italian version of Matthew. This doesn't seem to fit with the loose name-theme, but I so far haven't been able to figure out what that naming-theme even is.
Anyone have any insights or thoughts on this?
Thanks in advance!
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Ayunken-vanzan
Senior Scribe
Germany
657 Posts |
Posted - 25 Mar 2009 : 09:06:46
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| If you search for material about Halruaa, you should consider material about Netheril as well-after all, Halruaa is living Netheril, the true heir of this ancient empire. Their language, for example, is the modern form of ancient Netherese. |
"What mattered our lives now? When our world had been torn from us? Folk wept, or drank, or stood staring out over the land, wondering what new horror each dawn would bring."
Elender Stormfall of Suzail
"Anyone can kill deities, cause plagues, or destroy organizations. It takes real skill to make them live on."
Varl
FR/D&D-Links 2ed Downloads |
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LetumLux
Acolyte
17 Posts |
Posted - 25 Mar 2009 : 10:16:44
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If I remember rightly from what I read in Netheril: Empire of Magic, ther wasn't terribly much to answer my questions in that source.
I may have found my answer in the thread: Architecture of the South (http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=6071) though!
quote:
Originally posted by Lemernis
Halruaa
Real world touchtones: ? Touareg and Saharan?
The roots of Halruaan culture are a blend of Lapal tribes and Netherese, also influenced by Arkaiunan (human) tribespeople from Dambrath. According to the 3rd. ed. FR Net Compendium, Netheril's real world inspirations are "Touareg and Saharan desert-like nomads."
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6646 Posts |
Posted - 25 Mar 2009 : 23:05:12
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My view would be that you shouldnt search for Earth analogues but rather focus on what you know of Halruaa from the sources and extrapolate from there.
Where Ed has given us glimpses of Halruaa he has touched on the powerful position of families/clans in the social hierarchy and the fact that most families have their 'base' in remote, rural areas of the realm. To that end I would focus on coming up with some powerful Halruaan families (I could give you a list if you like) and choosing where to place them geographically for future reference. Loyalty to family would outweigh loyalty to the realm given the decentraliseed nature of the authority structure. Success in politics would be valued only where the interests of the entire realm were furthered (a rare occurrence in Halruaan history) or where a family/clan gained pre-eminence or a benefit in terms of land and influence.
Minor clans or individuals of no family would either latch onto the powerful families and use them as patrons (much like the client system of ancient Rome) or go their own way by seeking a succesful career in the military, civil adminsitrative government or ... most important of all, wizardry.
Magic is obviously a facet of everyday life and I wopuld expect that the rich would use an abundance of 'unseen servants' for their daily needs while the poor would rely on cantrips to assist with domestic tasks. Magic would also be used in building, architecture and gardening - 'land sculpting' was big in ancient Netheril and that tradition continues in Halruaa. The society would be an ordered one with likely a small criminal element, and likely a sophisticated criminal element where such activity occurs.
If you can find the old FR16 Shining South accessory that pre-dates the 3E version, you will get some further insights into dress, culture and how magic, geography and weather impact on Halruaan society.
We haven't seen anything on the Halruaan language and you have free rein to come up with words that fit. Ed provided a host of names for the 3E FRCS that unfortunately was greatly truncated but I'm sure if you asked him on his thread he could give you some pointers. With all due respect to Elaine, "Matteo" should in no way be read to be an indicator on Halruaan naming patterns.
Have fun and get creative. I've always considered Halruaa an awesome opportunity to do 'right' and deliver a huge amount of detail and realmslore. Too bad it's gone in 4E.
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
Edited by - George Krashos on 25 Mar 2009 23:05:49 |
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LetumLux
Acolyte
17 Posts |
Posted - 26 Mar 2009 : 01:40:31
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I'll be going my own way and filling in blanks myself, of course. DM's prerogative and all that. :D
What I wanted to know, however, was the original designer's ideas of the place. I like a sense of consistency in my worlds and for there to be a natural flow and evolution from one thing to the next. To best decide on what something is to be, I like to know what the designers were thinking or inspired by for the common roots.
For instance, knowing that the designers had the Tuareg in mind when they were working on the Netherese gives me a style to work with that should, theoretically, remain consistent within itself as it grows to encompass the descendants of Netheril. The cultures branched off in their own directions, of course, bot the common roots are fascinating and important to my method of building. If there are none, then I can work it out myself.
However, it's fairly obvious there was real-world inspirations of the majority of the places on Faerūn regardless of if they can be directly translated or if it's only the vaguest of similarities. So if the inspiration for the Netherese was Berber Tuareg or even just "desert nomads", from that I can extrapolate further to fill in the details and elaborate on the descriptions of Halruaan style, how urban and rural architecture differ, customs and so forth that I feel are missing in the information provided by the accessory books. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 26 Mar 2009 : 03:06:17
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I would say they are a hybrid of the Netherease and the existing 'primitives' (Early Lapalease - actually a Turami {Chultan} derivitve themelves) that were inhabiting the south of that time, which is why you have Africanesque Geography, a Northern (Romanesque) civic set-up, and Moroccan culture (dress and some architecture - although the architecture is a blend of classical and Middle-Eastern {almost Byzantine}).
If I 'had to' liken them to any RW state, I would say Tripoli, and its very complicated and culturally diversive history.
The Why and How:
An event happened in Zakhara's distant past called The scattering of Fate, wherein a foolish Caliph wished that all the people of Zakhara would stop their constant fighting. Fate answered his 'prayer' by dispersing ALL the inhabitants of Zakhara to the edges of the sub-continent - mostly along the coasts, but also up into the Utter East, and from there they spread north (into the Raurin) and west (across the Shining South). This branch of the Zakharan people are known as the Muhjein (or Muhjari), and their influence can be seen throughout the Raurin, Shining Waters, and Lapal peoples (think north-African coast for that last group). |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 28 Mar 2009 02:52:33 |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6646 Posts |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 26 Mar 2009 : 06:20:03
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Indeed. As I recall, 'twas one of the "overrun entries" from the Ol' Grey Box. Though it was briefly referenced -- pgs. 56 and 67 in the Cyclopedia of the Realms. However, they don't particularly say too much about Halruaa itself.
It was expanded in more detail a little later in the 1988 TSR "Secrets of the Sages" -- complete with a map. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 26 Mar 2009 : 06:27:52
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quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
To that end I would focus on coming up with some powerful Halruaan families (I could give you a list if you like)
Share! Share!   |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 26 Mar 2009 : 08:15:59
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quote:
Originally posted by LetumLux
I'll be going my own way and filling in blanks myself, of course. DM's prerogative and all that. :D
What I wanted to know, however, was the original designer's ideas of the place. I like a sense of consistency in my worlds and for there to be a natural flow and evolution from one thing to the next. To best decide on what something is to be, I like to know what the designers were thinking or inspired by for the common roots.
For instance, knowing that the designers had the Tuareg in mind when they were working on the Netherese gives me a style to work with that should, theoretically, remain consistent within itself as it grows to encompass the descendants of Netheril. The cultures branched off in their own directions, of course, bot the common roots are fascinating and important to my method of building. If there are none, then I can work it out myself.
However, it's fairly obvious there was real-world inspirations of the majority of the places on Faerūn regardless of if they can be directly translated or if it's only the vaguest of similarities. So if the inspiration for the Netherese was Berber Tuareg or even just "desert nomads", from that I can extrapolate further to fill in the details and elaborate on the descriptions of Halruaan style, how urban and rural architecture differ, customs and so forth that I feel are missing in the information provided by the accessory books.
Just curious, has it been mentioned anywhere that the Tuareg where an inspiration for the netherese or is it an example of your own workings on the Realms?
My handle on what is canon and what is not gets worse from year to year. Thankfully. |
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LetumLux
Acolyte
17 Posts |
Posted - 26 Mar 2009 : 09:00:12
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Jorkens,
quote:
Originally posted by LetumLux
(...)
I may have found my answer in the thread: Architecture of the South (http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=6071) though!
quote:
Originally posted by Lemernis
Halruaa
Real world touchtones: ? Touareg and Saharan?
The roots of Halruaan culture are a blend of Lapal tribes and Netherese, also influenced by Arkaiunan (human) tribespeople from Dambrath. According to the 3rd. ed. FR Net Compendium, Netheril's real world inspirations are "Touareg and Saharan desert-like nomads."
I'm still looking for this compendium to confirm this; I haven't been able to find it by searching the WotC site. |
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crazedventurers
Master of Realmslore
United Kingdom
1073 Posts |
Posted - 26 Mar 2009 : 09:30:02
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quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
Oh, and our first 'official' look at Halruaa was here:
http://www.wizards.com/dnd/files/tsrnewsletter.pdf
Are the Aglarond and Halruua maps Ed's originals? (similarly is the Simbul sketch an Ed original?)
Oh and I echo Wooly - share share!!
Cheers
Damian |
So saith Ed. I've never said he was sane, have I?
Gods, all this writing and he's running a constant fantasy version of Coronation Street in his head, too. .
shudder,
love to all,
THO
Candlekeep Forum 7 May 2005 |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6646 Posts |
Posted - 27 Mar 2009 : 12:42:03
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Yep, they were original "Ed maps".
As for Halruaan families, here is a partial list of some that are still around and some who are not:
Daycloaks (FOR9/55) [banished]
Vaeldern (FOR9/122) [extinct]
Darusk (PftF/49) [northern Halruaa]
Esculphion (PftF/49) [archmages]
Ilmeth (PftF/59) [extinct - last died mad]
Deirin (PftF/114) [archmages]
Flamefist (PftM/35) [mercenaries]
Malson (PftM/41) [extinct and/or exiled]
Mritavvalan (Dragon259/73) [extinct]
Halargoth (Dragon238/52) [dead/extinct?]
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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LetumLux
Acolyte
17 Posts |
Posted - 28 Mar 2009 : 02:41:02
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| Thanks for that list! |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 29 Mar 2009 : 03:00:55
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| A member of the Daycloaks family was also a Magister - SotM, pg. 54 |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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sfdragon
Great Reader
2285 Posts |
Posted - 29 Mar 2009 : 03:12:19
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| oh very intriguing |
why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power
My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234 |
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crazedventurers
Master of Realmslore
United Kingdom
1073 Posts |
Posted - 29 Mar 2009 : 03:20:54
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Thank you George
Damian |
So saith Ed. I've never said he was sane, have I?
Gods, all this writing and he's running a constant fantasy version of Coronation Street in his head, too. .
shudder,
love to all,
THO
Candlekeep Forum 7 May 2005 |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6646 Posts |
Posted - 29 Mar 2009 : 10:44:12
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quote:
Originally posted by crazedventurers
Thank you George
Damian
Pleasure.
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Topic |
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Pre-4th Ed Halruaa - Language/Culture Sources?
